'Omar's Law is UNKNOWN in Sweden': Swedish historian to Imran Khan

[awan4ever]

Thats what I am saying if he is so big historian how come he does not know this big truth....??

He researches 'SWEDISH' history not 'MUSLIM' history.

 

[saadkiakaray]

what so ever one stupid person said is HUKM E KHUDA WANDI 4 n leage morons.ik cant say anything historical wrong on media !

 

[ShaadPak]

Those Phd(s) don't want to credit Islam, they are denying the facts. They are from dark ages.. You should open your minds and eyes, Hazrat Umer (RA) is the founder for welfare state. That is the bare fact.

Do Not follow the europeans follow your greats....

 

[M Ali Khan]

Those Phd(s) don't want to credit Islam, they are denying the facts. They are from dark ages.. You should open your minds and eyes, Hazrat Umer (RA) is the founder for welfare state. That is the bare fact.

Do Not follow the europeans follow your greats....

Yes, Sweden. A country that has a very high human development index, takes cares of its citizens, does not discriminate anyone of caste, creed, or colour, and where every Muslim immigrant runs away to start a new life (and still complain about "The West") is living in 'Dark Ages', while the poverty ridden, sectarian divided, ethnically divided, and sexually repressed Ummah that refuses to stop living in the past and move forward is the real today's "Golden Age".

Makes sense.

Then don't use the computer, internet, or write in English language if you are so spiteful of "dark age europeans". Do not use their advances in science and technology because 'dark age europeans' made them.

 

[M Ali Khan]

what so ever one stupid person said is HUKM E KHUDA WANDI 4 n leage morons.ik cant say anything historical wrong on media !

Yes because anything IK says is the real HUKM E KHUDA WANDI right?

and for your kind information, I am not a Noon Leaguer. I am not affiliated or supportive of any political party. I am politically neutral.

 

[awan4ever]

Ok... to all those saying IK would never say something incorrect etc.

Can anyone please find a reference anywhere which unequivocally states that the modern Scandinavian states have been founded on 'Omarian Law' or take inspiration from the Islamic welfare state model?

P.S: Since some people are morons, let me explain that I am not suggesting that the Islamic welfare state system does not exist. I am just asking for a reference which clearly shows that the founders of Swedish welfare state were inspired by Islam.

If your answer is 'Imran Khan said so and he is never wrong' then please shut the hell up and go away.

Here are some ways on how to research:

www.google.com

http://www.utbildning.gu.se/educati...mes/course_detail/?courseId=info.uh.gu.HI1430

http://katalog.uu.se/orgInfo/?orgId=HS13

http://sukat.su.se/org.jsp?dn=ou%3DHistoria%2Cou%3DHistoriska+institutionen%2Cou%3DHumanistiska+fakulteten%2Co%3DStockholms+universitet%2Cc%3DSE

http://www.kau.se/en/education/social-sciences-arts


Email professors in various faculties in all the above given links and put this question to them.

I assure you that professors in Scandinavian universities are very obliging and helpful and will try to answer your queries as best as they can. (I studied at a Norwegian University so I know)

 

[Vitamin_C]

Well I know for a fact that Britain law was influenced by Islamic Law hundreds of years ago, as a matter of fact Arabic was one of the national languages of England many centuries ago, this helped them trade with the Islamic empire in Spain.
Islam had a great impact all over Europe, they translated literature, engineering, medicine, chemistry and other books from Persian and Arabic to European languages, their industrial revolution would not have been possible without knowledge from the East.
If this person says that Sweden has no knowledge of Omar, or the Muslim world... that's a straight forward lie. Id only believe that if they were living on the moon. The Ottoman empire consisted of 50+ modern day states and was the first true Welfare state, It was worlds super power for more than 500 years. Sweden Denying the Ottoman empire is like Turkey denying having any knowledge of the European Union from 1970 to 2470 AD. Bullshit. Find a better source.

 

[shahbaz k]

ok so what if he is wrong i mean the point IK was trying to make was loud n clear that his dream is to give Pakistan a justice n equality system like that of Scandinavian countries where laws and human rights r similar to that of hazrat umar's reign .......

u think through these cheap tactics you'll make us envy of IK , infact our bond n love will grow stronger for our leader n secondly these kind of failed attempts show ur desperation ! lolz

 

[M Ali Khan]

Well I know for a fact that Britain law was influenced by Islamic Law hundreds of years ago, as a matter of fact Arabic was one of the national languages of England many centuries ago, this helped them trade with the Islamic empire in Spain.

can you provide a source for that please?

Islam had a great impact all over Europe, they translated literature, engineering, medicine, chemistry and other books from Persian and Arabic to European languages, their industrial revolution would not have been possible without knowledge from the East.

No one is denying that. But you should also remember that many of the works written in Persian and Arabic were themselves translations and modifications of works written in Greek and Latin centuries before advent of Islam. The benefits were derived from anyone and everyone. There is no exclusive right for one particular civilisation to claim it alone bore the modern age of today.

If this person says that Sweden has no knowledge of Omar, or the Muslim world... that's a straight forward lie. Id only believe that if they were living on the moon. The Ottoman empire consisted of 50+ modern day states and was the first true Welfare state, It was worlds super power for more than 500 years. Sweden Denying the Ottoman empire is like Turkey denying having any knowledge of the European Union from 1970 to 2470 AD. Bullshit. Find a better source.

You do realise that the Ottomans NEVER ruled the Nordic countries right? Ottomans farthest reach in Europe was just outside of Vienna in Austria for a couple of years before they fell back to what is now the former Yugoslavia right.

The Ottomans never had control or claim on the Nordic countries. In fact, northern Europe remained mostly isolated and free from the conflicts that were troubling mainland Europe. It had to deal with competing Nordic kingdoms, the Russians, and the various German states over the Baltic Sea territories mostly. Sweden's interaction with Muslims and Islam is fairly recent mainly because of immigration.

Also, Sweden's welfare programs had begun in 1930s, much before the formation of EU as a compromise between the wealthy industrialists and strong socialist-oriented unions within Swedish society. Not the other way round.

 

[awan4ever]

Well I know for a fact that Britain law was influenced by Islamic Law hundreds of years ago, as a matter of fact Arabic was one of the national languages of England many centuries ago, this helped them trade with the Islamic empire in Spain.
Islam had a great impact all over Europe, they translated literature, engineering, medicine, chemistry and other books from Persian and Arabic to European languages, their industrial revolution would not have been possible without knowledge from the East.
If this person says that Sweden has no knowledge of Omar, or the Muslim world... that's a straight forward lie. Id only believe that if they were living on the moon. The Ottoman empire consisted of 50+ modern day states and was the first true Welfare state, It was worlds super power for more than 500 years. Sweden Denying the Ottoman empire is like Turkey denying having any knowledge of the European Union from 1970 to 2470 AD. Bullshit. Find a better source.

It would be great if you could post some historical references citing all your 'facts'.

I dont know why everyone is discrediting an academic who spent his life researching a subject by just giving plausible cause examples.

How about someone take the initiative and pull out some credible historical reference which shows that the Swedes did what they did bsed on Islamic W?

 

[M Ali Khan]

ok so what if he is wrong i mean the point IK was trying to make was loud n clear that his dream is to give Pakistan a justice n equality system like that of Scandinavian countries where laws and human rights r similar to that of hazrat umar's reign .......

u dumb F*** r so stupid that u think through these cheap tactics you'll make us envy of IK , infact our bond n love will grow stronger for our leader n secondly these kind of failed attempts show ur desperation ! lolz

Aqal barri k bhens?

 

[M Ali Khan]

It would be great if you could post some historical references citing all your 'facts'.

I dont know why everyone is discrediting an academic who spent his life researching a subject by just giving plausible cause examples.

How about someone take the initiative and pull out some credible historical reference which shows that the Swedes did what they did bsed on Islamic W?

If only people actually bothered reading about the history of civilisations that preceded Islam or had no relation with Islam then they will realise the world is not what they are told by their 'khuda ka noor, ba shaoor' elders.

The administrative efforts of Cyrus The Great, for example, united an entire empire of many nations, religions, ethnicities, languages, and tribes as being EQUALS under one entity. And this was nearly a thousand years before Hazrat Umar's reign as Caliph began!!!

 

[Pak1stani]

@M Ali Khan​

علی بھائی پوسٹ کے لیے بہت شکریہ. آپ نے میری آنکھیں کھول دی ہے میں تو عمران خان کو ووٹ دینے جارہا تھا

لیکن آپ نے بڑے اچھے طریقے سے اس کو بےنقاب کیا ہے یہ عمران تو بڑا جھوٹا ہے

.ویسے اگلے الیکشن میں کس کو ووٹ دوں؟


زرداری ٹھیک رہے گا یا نواز شریف؟

یا پھر الطاف بھائی کو ٹرائی کروں؟

 

[M Ali Khan]

@M Ali Khan​

علی بھائی پوسٹ کے لیے بہت شکریہ. آپ نے میری آنکھیں کھول دی ہے میں تو عمران خان کو ووٹ دینے جارہا تھا

لیکن آپ نے بڑے اچھے طریقے سے اس کو بےنقاب کیا ہے یہ عمران تو بڑا جھوٹا ہے

.ویسے اگلے الیکشن میں کس کو ووٹ دوں؟


زرداری ٹھیک رہے گا یا نواز شریف؟

یا پھر الطاف بھائی کو ٹرائی کروں؟

Aap ka VOTE, Aap ki Marzi.

Mein yahan kisi ko yeh nahin kehney aya k kisi aur ko vote do, mein sirf yeh keh raha hoon k har baat ki VERIFICATION kar k bayan karo, warna kisi aur ney aakar aapki ghaltee wazeh kar deyni hai.

Baaki aap ki marzi.

 

[Pak1stani]

جواب کے لیے بہت شکریہ. ویسے بڑی حیرانی کی بات ہے کہ ساری دنیا میں آپکو یہ کہنے کے لیے کہ ہر بات کو کہنے سے پہلےتصدیق کر لیا کرو
صرف عمران خان ھی نظر آیا

ہاں آپکا یہ کومنٹ آپکے بارے میں بہت کچھ کہتا ہے

"http://www.viewpointonline.net/omar...weden-swedish-historian-tells-imran-khan.html"

"Imran Khan spoke out of his behind and they cannot admit he made a blunder in his grandiose claim!"

Aap ka VOTE, Aap ki Marzi.

Mein yahan kisi ko yeh nahin kehney aya k kisi aur ko vote do, mein sirf yeh keh raha hoon k har baat ki VERIFICATION kar k bayan karo, warna kisi aur ney aakar aapki ghaltee wazeh kar deyni hai.

Baaki aap ki marzi.

 

[golmaal]

Ohh yara, at least the non-Muslims must have learnt something from the Muslim's ruling system. Although I chuckle whenever people talk about the "Golden history of Islamic empires" when even a dog wouldn't sleep hungry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reforms_of_Umar's_era

 

[kashif10]

It doesn't matter that all those welfare states adopting rules knowingly or un knowingly the Islamic welfare states rules.
But fact remain same that Our great prophet Rasool e akram S.A.W & his companions introduce those rules in this world.

Remember, un knowingly are the cases, when person doesn't know the start of anything, but heard benefits of something & adopt that thing.

 

[Vitamin_C]

can you provide a source for that please?

Go do your research World History isn't rocket science.

No one is denying that. But you should also remember that many of the works written in Persian and Arabic were themselves translations and modifications of works written in Greek and Latin centuries before advent of Islam. The benefits were derived from anyone and everyone. There is no exclusive right for one particular civilisation to claim it alone bore the modern age of today.

I do not agree with you, Greek technology was outdated when the Romans took over, which is thousands of years ago, the technology and techniques that I am talking about are fairly recent and pure Islamic from 14th to 18th century. I dont remember their names or id write some of the famous ones here, there is a water mill in Syria which is 300 years old its still running. These were revolutionary inventions without which industrial revolution was not possible. There are many instances today in which nations have to re invent the wheel. The Chinese are developing the Space station. I know it exists but no country wants to share its technology so China has to re invent something that already exists.

You do realise that the Ottomans NEVER ruled the Nordic countries right? Ottomans farthest reach in Europe was just outside of Vienna in Austria for a couple of years before they fell back to what is now the former Yugoslavia right.

Seriously you must be smart enough to know that countries can influence other countries without ruling over them right?

The Ottomans never had control or claim on the Nordic countries. In fact, northern Europe remained mostly isolated and free from the conflicts that were troubling mainland Europe. It had to deal with competing Nordic kingdoms, the Russians, and the various German states over the Baltic Sea territories mostly. Sweden's interaction with Muslims and Islam is fairly recent mainly because of immigration.

King Charles XII of Sweden fled to the Ottoman Empire following his defeat against the Russians at the Battle of Poltava in 1709. A guest of the Turks for nearly five years, he persuaded the Ottoman Sultan Ahmed III to declare war on Russia, which resulted in the Russo-Turkish war 1710-1711 that ended with an Ottoman victory. Their interactions with Muslims is not recent, they didn't arrive from the moon all of a sudden, we share the same planet for god sake.
If your going to debate me on world history your going to lose. The Ottoman Empire had influence all over Europe, how many light years was Sweden from Ottoman empire. Distance doesn't matter you do not need to be there physically to influence that country.
Northern Europe was never Isolated. The vikings were very active in the region and constantly raided British Isles. Another legend you might have heard of called Beowulf, he was Swedish to. I dont want to write about the wars of Nordic states because it would take 1000 books. But do some research over the Swedish empire of the 17th century and the 30 years wars, you will know. Apart from that there was widespread trade between Europe all the way to Americas, even Japan, hundreds of years ago so its nothing recent.

Also, Sweden's welfare programs had begun in 1930s, much before the formation of EU as a compromise between the wealthy industrialists and strong socialist-oriented unions within Swedish society. Not the other way round.

Systems are creating after taking examples from the rest of the world and inventing some of the ideas. Major systems in the world were based on Karl Marx, Max Webber etc... The welfare state was not invented by the Scandinavian states, Otto Von Bismarck created a welfare state in Prussia in 1840, which was influenced by the Ottomans. The world is smaller than you think it is.
I didn't know you could go this far only to prove IK wrong. I don't care about IK but you better get your history right. Only country in the known world that was briefly Isolated was Japan, apart from that all countries were constantly involved in trade, linguistic and cultural exchange. Language, Culture, political structures are actively influenced by other states since we all come from the same planet, we all live on oxygen, its not the case that some of us breathe carbon dioxide.

 

[M Ali Khan]

Go do your research World History isn't rocket science.

Once again, I ask you for an exact source. If you know that much then I am sure it wont be a problem for you to provide.

I do not agree with you, Greek technology was outdated when the Romans took over, which is thousands of years ago, the technology and techniques that I am talking about are fairly recent and pure Islamic from 14th to 18th century. I dont remember their names or id write some of the famous ones here, there is a water mill in Syria which is 300 years old its still running. These were revolutionary inventions without which industrial revolution was not possible. There are many instances today in which nations have to re invent the wheel. The Chinese are developing the Space station. I know it exists but no country wants to share its technology so China has to re invent something that already exists.

And yet we still see Roman aqueducts around much of its former territories that lasted for use in agriculture for centuries that, with a little modifications, can be still used to this day. Much of their building designs are still regarded as basic staple for architects and designers and still exist today. We still use the ideas of Archimedes in engineering as well as his water-wheel design to this day. To say Greek technology is 'outdated' is unfair statement since much of modern science and technology has a strong root in Greco-Roman ideas of more than 2000 years ago. It has been significantly modified, improved, over-hauled, and changed, but the very basic premise remains the same.

In fact such technologies were also the hallmark of Indian, Iranian, and Egyptian civilisations that even predate the Greeks!!

Mate, how exactly can you mix religious ideology with practical technology? Is there something as "Christian technology" or "Jewish technology"? Those scientists and engineers were MUSLIM yes, but that does not automatically make it "Islamic technology" as many of the ideas have been in human civilisation for centuries. I wouldn't call Albert Einstein's work as the "Jewish Theory of Relativity" just because he was a Jew now would I? ;)

Seriously you must be smart enough to know that countries can influence other countries without ruling over them right?

I agree. Won't dispute that mistake of mine. I mistook that you thought Ottomans had ruled the Nordic states.

King Charles XII of Sweden fled to the Ottoman Empire following his defeat against the Russians at the Battle of Poltava in 1709. A guest of the Turks for nearly five years, he persuaded the Ottoman Sultan Ahmed III to declare war on Russia, which resulted in the Russo-Turkish war 1710-1711 that ended with an Ottoman victory. Their interactions with Muslims is not recent, they didn't arrive from the moon all of a sudden, we share the same planet for god sake.

If your going to debate me on world history your going to lose. The Ottoman Empire had influence all over Europe, how many light years was Sweden from Ottoman empire. Distance doesn't matter you do not need to be there physically to influence that country.

Northern Europe was never Isolated. The vikings were very active in the region and constantly raided British Isles. Another legend you might have heard of called Beowulf, he was Swedish to. I dont want to write about the wars of Nordic states because it would take 1000 books. But do some research over the Swedish empire of the 17th century and the 30 years wars, you will know. Apart from that there was widespread trade between Europe all the way to Americas, even Japan, hundreds of years ago so its nothing recent.

Systems are creating after taking examples from the rest of the world and inventing some of the ideas. Major systems in the world were based on Karl Marx, Max Webber etc... The welfare state was not invented by the Scandinavian states, Otto Von Bismarck created a welfare state in Prussia in 1840, which was influenced by the Ottomans. The world is smaller than you think it is.

I didn't know you could go this far only to prove IK wrong. I don't care about IK but you better get your history right. Only country in the known world that was briefly Isolated was Japan, apart from that all countries were constantly involved in trade, linguistic and cultural exchange. Language, Culture, political structures are actively influenced by other states since we all come from the same planet, we all live on oxygen, its not the case that some of us breathe carbon dioxide.

Won't dispute most of that either. But like I said, the main argument is IK said the Swedes have something call "Omar's Law" which you will agree is NOT true as such a law does not exist in name anywhere.

Sure it has taken inspiration from various sources and all, but it was not entirely 'foreign' concept for them. The swedish historian has categorically explained that much of it was indigenously inspired and brought about.

But like I said, broad generalisations and claims is something politicians are good at. It may sound something true, but generalisations are easy to do and ignores the complex matters which most of our simple masses do not even know of.

 

[Zulfi Khan]

@ All the opponents of Imran Khan, I never voted Imran Khan in my whole life but now
I will vote for Imran Khan only because he is better than all the tested leaders. I know
every thing very well. What is right or what is wrong? I can not trust any hypocrite or liar
any more. Imran Khan Zindabad! All his opponents Murdabad! Geo Khan Jee!