Hue & Cry On Kerry Lugar Bill
- Thread starter Jury
- Start date
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
This moron is nuts!
He is arguing on the primes that people didn't react earlier. He doesn't REALIZE the fact, that people were NOT! informed! earlier.
This guys is not only nuts, he's a moron!
He's thinking we hate Zardari that is why we are opposing it. He's saying there's no bad clauses IN this Kerry Lugar Aid Bill.
He's LYING!!! I can now imagine a person who would go beyond his boundaries just for his own personal gains.
LAANTI!!!! BAYGHAIRAT LIER!!!!!! LOAG!!!
To the author of this article -> STFU!!! you moron!!
This moron is nuts!
He is arguing on the primes that people didn't react earlier. He doesn't REALIZE the fact, that people were NOT! informed! earlier.
This guys is not only nuts, he's a moron!
He's thinking we hate Zardari that is why we are opposing it. He's saying there's no bad clauses IN this Kerry Lugar Aid Bill.
He's LYING!!! I can now imagine a person who would go beyond his boundaries just for his own personal gains.
LAANTI!!!! BAYGHAIRAT LIER!!!!!! LOAG!!!
To the author of this article -> STFU!!! you moron!!
mistehbab
He makes a valid point , which is the essence of this bill:
1. IT is NOT A BILATERAL AGREEMENT b/w the two countries.
How does Pakistan lose her sovereignty when the government of Pakistan hasn't signed on any agreement to :
a. grant access to nuclear proliferators
b. grant US and others access to sensitive sites or personnel
c. extradite or 'sell' any individuals to the US
d. grant US access to day-to-day governance matters
e. grant US direct control of funds allocated to Pakistani military
The only thing is: It requires US DEPARTMENTS (state/defense etc.) to CERTIFY that the bill is being adhered to by the Pakistani side.
And...IFFF the State department FAILS to certify Pakistan, the aid will NOT BE RELEASED!!!
That's it, the only thing Pakistan stands to lose is POTENTIAL AID, if the US departments don't appreciate Pakistan's 'performance'
Which means:
the bills instructs US DEPARTMENTS (mind you, not Pakistani governments), to release aid IF certain waivers have been issued by the relevant department. How the US State and Defense departments deal with the Pakistani side is NOT the subject of this bill!
. For all we care, they can do what they did during AFGHAN WAR, when the PRESIDENT REAGEN issued waiver after waiver cuz Pakistan was fighting 'their war'..
He makes a valid point , which is the essence of this bill:
1. IT is NOT A BILATERAL AGREEMENT b/w the two countries.
How does Pakistan lose her sovereignty when the government of Pakistan hasn't signed on any agreement to :
a. grant access to nuclear proliferators
b. grant US and others access to sensitive sites or personnel
c. extradite or 'sell' any individuals to the US
d. grant US access to day-to-day governance matters
e. grant US direct control of funds allocated to Pakistani military
The only thing is: It requires US DEPARTMENTS (state/defense etc.) to CERTIFY that the bill is being adhered to by the Pakistani side.
And...IFFF the State department FAILS to certify Pakistan, the aid will NOT BE RELEASED!!!
That's it, the only thing Pakistan stands to lose is POTENTIAL AID, if the US departments don't appreciate Pakistan's 'performance'
Which means:
the bills instructs US DEPARTMENTS (mind you, not Pakistani governments), to release aid IF certain waivers have been issued by the relevant department. How the US State and Defense departments deal with the Pakistani side is NOT the subject of this bill!
. For all we care, they can do what they did during AFGHAN WAR, when the PRESIDENT REAGEN issued waiver after waiver cuz Pakistan was fighting 'their war'..
I don,t think if this money from Kerry Lofar (Lofar is an Urdu word) will help a normal Pakistani apart from our
Zardari and Altaf bhai,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,so we don,t need it those who need it have to accept or reject?
I m 100% our (Pakistani awam) economical situtaion will remain the same even if we accept or not ..............
All those who want to serve USA are giving some Lame-excuse for about this bill............
Zardari and Altaf bhai,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,so we don,t need it those who need it have to accept or reject?
I m 100% our (Pakistani awam) economical situtaion will remain the same even if we accept or not ..............
All those who want to serve USA are giving some Lame-excuse for about this bill............
A
abbasiali
Guest
[pk flag] I support every single supporter of this Kerry Lugar bill, either they are from Ruling elite class or beneficiary politician party, truth is Pakistani nation has been kept as slave and these people wouldn't like to see their slaves as self respected nation, this elite class would always like to see Pakistani's as beggers for ever, so no matter if some one try to raise their voice from media or any source, they shouldn't try to do so, because we have our own people who doesn't want us to freed from this cruelty, they themselves avail all the best perks, but for Pakistanis it has to be, what they have select, "KERRY LUGAR BILL" [pk flag] [pk flag] [pk flag]
Shame on us, not to you, who support Kerry lugar bill. [pk flag] [pk flag] [pk flag]
Shame on us, not to you, who support Kerry lugar bill. [pk flag] [pk flag] [pk flag]
sagaciouscorpion
MPA (400+ posts)
This is my response to the Kerry Lugar Bill..
http://nidaesehar.pkpolitics.com/2009/1 ... s-changed/
I dont know what would be the fate of the Kerry-Lugar Bill, and whether President Obama would sign it or send it back for reconsideration, but I know it for sure that this aid, even if it is approved, would not make any difference to the people of Pakistan. The billions of dollars obtained in the name of aid by begging around the world, or borrowed as loans never reached them and got drained into the foreign accounts and assets in the US, Europe and Arab countries, leaving them high and dry. Even after 62 years of independence, people dont have basic necessities of food, water, health, electricity and gas and we all know the value of life in our country. The system has miserably failed in establishing justice and equality in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, though a vast majority longs for it and has waited since eternity. Many of us pay heavy taxes on all our basic commodities but dont get anything in return, although we can see the politicians, bureaucrats and the generals enjoying perks on taxpayers money and developing assets abroad. Though this bill might not bring any good to our common man but it has certainly highlighted some aspects of our society and widened the divisions between different schools of thought and the debate this bill has initiated, has brought up some very interesting issues and perspectives. It has certainly drawn a line between the elite and the masses.
If we analyze closely, we can recognize different groups with different perspectives. There are people from the Hussain Haqqani tribe, including the president and prime-minister, who think that the bill is nothing but a blessing for the people of Pakistan and they should accept it as it is, without even giving it a second thought. They think that the common people are nave enough and they dont know much English to comprehend the hidden benefits of the Bill and media has made an issue out of nothing. Keeping the literacy rate in mind, it would have been a valid argument but unfortunately even N. Paterson also considered the language of the bill as inappropriate and accepted the points raised against it after feeling the magnitude of reaction from the people. (I wonder if Mr. Haqqani can question her English!!!!). Despite this, people like Mr. Farhatullah Baber, consider everybody in this country, conspiring against the democratic government and raising fingers at the bill as a part to malign the honorable presidentCant say much about this mentality as they would already be considering me and pkpolitics team as conspirators against democracy and the democratic government.
There are independent TV anchors and analysts like Kamran Khan, Hamid Meer and Talat Hussain, who consider this bill damaging the countrys interests and quite a few newspaper columnists are also not ready to accept this bill in its present form..I believe these anchors and columnists could be considered educated and quite familiar with English language, so there is something which is not right about this billsome would go to the extent to call it Ghulami ki dastawaiz The masses, though uneducated and nave have also taken this line, and when the government decided not to pay any attention to this hue and cry, military had to come up with a press release, which made the government realize that all was not right with the bill, which as usual, added more salt to its injuriesThough some people went to the extent to call it sovereignty hysteria and considered it pointless to talk about sovereignty, as probably we dont have any!!! But it should be put into consideration that neither the masses, nor the journalists and the civil society was happy about selling our sovereignty to the US or even Taliban.So if they are talking about reviving it there shouldnt be a problem.
The most interesting perspective, I found was of some people who raised questions like What is new in this bill?, Why are people crying when similar laws have been passed by the Americans previously? How is this different from the previous ones? I went through a few bills discussed by the Americans and found this one too which insists the government to declare Pakistan as a terrorist state then 9/11 happened and we became the Front line allies and the curse of being American allies is still haunting usduring the past few years and throughout the history the damage done by the American Friendship was more than its benefits and yet our governing class always tried to crave for this one sided friendship, which has only brought disaster and plight.
I believe we are looking for something different in the wrong place, to find the difference; we need to look at the right place, which in my view are the masses, if we look at them, we can see the change in the way the people think, they are awake and aware of what is going on around them. They listen, understand and react. They know the game being played with them by the bureaucracy and politicians and it is not easy to fool them for long, neither for the government, nor for the opposition They know that this particular one and any other aid is not and will not be used on them, so it doesnt make a difference in their economical condition, whether we accept this bill or reject it, but accepting one disgrace after the other is just undigestible and is something which affects our national ego. The Natioanal Ego, which was very badly damaged by our beggar president Mr. Asif Ali Zardari, probably to an extent we even forgot that it used to exist. But this is no more acceptable to the masses, and in spite of being under a huge economic burden, they like to voice their concerns and express their opinion on national issues. Many of us say that we dont have a right to talk about sovereignty and we should forget about it and look forward to getting more dollars as we need them.I am asking them, who is the one who needed these dollars? Is it the masses? Or it is the ruling elite? The aid has always kept coming and disappearing into banks and assets around the world and people of Pakistan were made to pay for the money, which was never spent on them rather spent on the enjoyment of the elite. This is not acceptable any moreThe waves of change are there, but some prefer to keep their eyes closed and deny their very existence. I would call it the media miracle, which has precipitated the transformation in the way of thinking of the masses.The people of Pakistan now feel that their rulers have been fooling them for quite long time and they also have a right to live in a dignified way, not allowing others to violate our territory or use it for creating unrest in other countries, that includes Taliban and Americans both. But some people, whose eyes are blinded by the shining dollars and their minds are mesmerized by the luster of the western civilization are very keen on accepting the foreign dictation, whether its from the Americans or Saudis.
It is a fact that our elite ruling class had almost always prostrated in front of the Americans, and guarded their interests in the region and there are really few examples when they decided to go against the American will, but the way in which the current government looks at the Americans as saviors and guarantors of democracy and democratic government is just shameful and utter disgrace. The people of Pakistan do not consider Americans as their friends, in fact they strongly oppose the American policies in the region It is time that the government should accept this fact and establish an independent, dignified and balanced foreign policy. Otherwise we may see a flood of the masses taking everything along with it.
The nostalgia of the masses coming out in a spectacular manner to get the chief justice reinstated, lives on and gives glad tidings that there is more to come.something has change and that is the people of Pakistan
http://nidaesehar.pkpolitics.com/2009/1 ... s-changed/
I dont know what would be the fate of the Kerry-Lugar Bill, and whether President Obama would sign it or send it back for reconsideration, but I know it for sure that this aid, even if it is approved, would not make any difference to the people of Pakistan. The billions of dollars obtained in the name of aid by begging around the world, or borrowed as loans never reached them and got drained into the foreign accounts and assets in the US, Europe and Arab countries, leaving them high and dry. Even after 62 years of independence, people dont have basic necessities of food, water, health, electricity and gas and we all know the value of life in our country. The system has miserably failed in establishing justice and equality in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, though a vast majority longs for it and has waited since eternity. Many of us pay heavy taxes on all our basic commodities but dont get anything in return, although we can see the politicians, bureaucrats and the generals enjoying perks on taxpayers money and developing assets abroad. Though this bill might not bring any good to our common man but it has certainly highlighted some aspects of our society and widened the divisions between different schools of thought and the debate this bill has initiated, has brought up some very interesting issues and perspectives. It has certainly drawn a line between the elite and the masses.
If we analyze closely, we can recognize different groups with different perspectives. There are people from the Hussain Haqqani tribe, including the president and prime-minister, who think that the bill is nothing but a blessing for the people of Pakistan and they should accept it as it is, without even giving it a second thought. They think that the common people are nave enough and they dont know much English to comprehend the hidden benefits of the Bill and media has made an issue out of nothing. Keeping the literacy rate in mind, it would have been a valid argument but unfortunately even N. Paterson also considered the language of the bill as inappropriate and accepted the points raised against it after feeling the magnitude of reaction from the people. (I wonder if Mr. Haqqani can question her English!!!!). Despite this, people like Mr. Farhatullah Baber, consider everybody in this country, conspiring against the democratic government and raising fingers at the bill as a part to malign the honorable presidentCant say much about this mentality as they would already be considering me and pkpolitics team as conspirators against democracy and the democratic government.
There are independent TV anchors and analysts like Kamran Khan, Hamid Meer and Talat Hussain, who consider this bill damaging the countrys interests and quite a few newspaper columnists are also not ready to accept this bill in its present form..I believe these anchors and columnists could be considered educated and quite familiar with English language, so there is something which is not right about this billsome would go to the extent to call it Ghulami ki dastawaiz The masses, though uneducated and nave have also taken this line, and when the government decided not to pay any attention to this hue and cry, military had to come up with a press release, which made the government realize that all was not right with the bill, which as usual, added more salt to its injuriesThough some people went to the extent to call it sovereignty hysteria and considered it pointless to talk about sovereignty, as probably we dont have any!!! But it should be put into consideration that neither the masses, nor the journalists and the civil society was happy about selling our sovereignty to the US or even Taliban.So if they are talking about reviving it there shouldnt be a problem.
The most interesting perspective, I found was of some people who raised questions like What is new in this bill?, Why are people crying when similar laws have been passed by the Americans previously? How is this different from the previous ones? I went through a few bills discussed by the Americans and found this one too which insists the government to declare Pakistan as a terrorist state then 9/11 happened and we became the Front line allies and the curse of being American allies is still haunting usduring the past few years and throughout the history the damage done by the American Friendship was more than its benefits and yet our governing class always tried to crave for this one sided friendship, which has only brought disaster and plight.
I believe we are looking for something different in the wrong place, to find the difference; we need to look at the right place, which in my view are the masses, if we look at them, we can see the change in the way the people think, they are awake and aware of what is going on around them. They listen, understand and react. They know the game being played with them by the bureaucracy and politicians and it is not easy to fool them for long, neither for the government, nor for the opposition They know that this particular one and any other aid is not and will not be used on them, so it doesnt make a difference in their economical condition, whether we accept this bill or reject it, but accepting one disgrace after the other is just undigestible and is something which affects our national ego. The Natioanal Ego, which was very badly damaged by our beggar president Mr. Asif Ali Zardari, probably to an extent we even forgot that it used to exist. But this is no more acceptable to the masses, and in spite of being under a huge economic burden, they like to voice their concerns and express their opinion on national issues. Many of us say that we dont have a right to talk about sovereignty and we should forget about it and look forward to getting more dollars as we need them.I am asking them, who is the one who needed these dollars? Is it the masses? Or it is the ruling elite? The aid has always kept coming and disappearing into banks and assets around the world and people of Pakistan were made to pay for the money, which was never spent on them rather spent on the enjoyment of the elite. This is not acceptable any moreThe waves of change are there, but some prefer to keep their eyes closed and deny their very existence. I would call it the media miracle, which has precipitated the transformation in the way of thinking of the masses.The people of Pakistan now feel that their rulers have been fooling them for quite long time and they also have a right to live in a dignified way, not allowing others to violate our territory or use it for creating unrest in other countries, that includes Taliban and Americans both. But some people, whose eyes are blinded by the shining dollars and their minds are mesmerized by the luster of the western civilization are very keen on accepting the foreign dictation, whether its from the Americans or Saudis.
It is a fact that our elite ruling class had almost always prostrated in front of the Americans, and guarded their interests in the region and there are really few examples when they decided to go against the American will, but the way in which the current government looks at the Americans as saviors and guarantors of democracy and democratic government is just shameful and utter disgrace. The people of Pakistan do not consider Americans as their friends, in fact they strongly oppose the American policies in the region It is time that the government should accept this fact and establish an independent, dignified and balanced foreign policy. Otherwise we may see a flood of the masses taking everything along with it.
The nostalgia of the masses coming out in a spectacular manner to get the chief justice reinstated, lives on and gives glad tidings that there is more to come.something has change and that is the people of Pakistan
