Hate speech

[Politics Maestro]

A strong case can be made against the JI leader for fomenting aggression and religious persecution under the countrys laws regarding hate speech and incitement to violence

The street power and political clout wielded by Pakistans religious right have resulted in the state and society being held hostage by extremist elements. The latter stop at nothing to further their agenda of inciting hatred, divisiveness and violence. The latest example is that of the Jamaat-i-Islami chief, Syed Munawwar Hasan, who during a sermon in Lahore on Friday threatened a fresh movement against the Ahmadi community if it did not accept their minority status and the government kept silent about their blasphemous and unconstitutional activities.

Mr Hasan did not specify any particular instance substantiating his charges, leading one to read his comments as hate speech and also as an attempt to blackmail the government into further victimising an already persecuted community. Given the incendiary passions the issue arouses, any call by religious parties in this context is certain to be attended by violence. A strong case can be made against the JI leader for fomenting aggression and religious persecution under the countrys laws regarding hate speech and incitement to violence.

Even beyond this particular case, it has now become a matter of urgency that the government show an active and uncompromising stance on the issue of hate speech and incitement to violence or other sorts of criminal activity. Pakistans polity is already rent by religious, ethnic and sectarian divisions. Allowing irresponsible and divisive opinions to be aired publicly will deepen these fissures. Once it begins, the process of religious, ethnic and other communities being pitted against one another will prove difficult to bring under control. Spiralling violence, particularly in view of other issues being faced by the country such as militancy and terrorism, can then be expected. It is in the interests of both the state and citizenry to take a stand against inflammatory hate speech and lobby for the prosecution of those who break the law.
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/editorial/21-hate-speech-160-sk-04

 

[gazoomartian]

The street power and political clout wielded by Pakistan’s religious right have resulted in the state and society being held hostage by extremist elements. The latter stop at nothing to further their agenda of inciting hatred, divisiveness and violence. The latest example is that of the Jamaat-i-Islami chief, Syed Munawwar Hasan, who during a sermon in Lahore on Friday threatened a fresh movement against the Ahmadi community if it “did not accept their minority status” and the government kept silent about “their blasphemous and unconstitutional activities”.

Good work Hasan saheb. Dawn seems like has been bought out by the Jewish masters.

What the writer means is let the Ahmedi do what ever they want. The words 'hate speech' are very dangerous here. The writer is speaking thru the Jewish mouth. These two words have been floated in media. Later they will ask to legislate a Hate Law that would ban any talks against the Qadyani, but Qadyanis will be allowed to say what ever they want or do.

Thats what Jews did in Canada. First they did propaganda and public awareness, then forced Ottawa to bring in Hate Law, and now nobody can say or write anything against Jews. However Jews can say anything thru their media.

This imposed western democracy is detrimental to Islamic system. And so is the independent judiciary. astaghfirullah

 

[contra]

For all my brothers who say that minorities are safe and protected under Islam
Friends,
1. What do you all have to say about the above statement of the JeI chief?

2. He condemned terrorist attack on the Ahmedis, but, we know what JeI did in 1953...

3. Does the JeI chief not know what true Islam is? I am of course not a muslim, but, when i exchange view with other members on this forum, everyone of them says that minorities are protected under your ideology...

4. I will be grateful if someone could explain this contradiction...

 

[Night-Hawk]

Gazoo Bhai.... The Jewish-Ahmedi Nexus is further exemplified by above video. Israeli President is in Ahmedi worship center for so called "aftaar dinner".

Munawar Hasan has warned pro-Qadyani moles in Pakistani establishment and media to halt their propaganda. They want to create a 'Nazi-style persecution myth' in Pakistan to fulfill their long term interests.

 

[GulAhmad]

Jitne bade Musalman heen wo bi sare gante heen,Tum wo log ho jo Amerca ko gali dete ho aur agar tumeen amerca ka visa mil gaye to Bahg kar jate ho,
DEHKO ZARA AAP KI ULMA KEYA KAR RAHE HEEN,[video]http://www.youtube.com/user/islamiminaar#p/u/76/-TG3dIgDzZg[/video]

 

[GulAhmad]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/user/islamiminaar#p/u/76/-TG3dIgDzZg[/video]

 

[GulAhmad]

Gazoo Bhai.... The Jewish-Ahmedi Nexus is further exemplified by above video. Israeli President is in Ahmedi worship center for so called "aftaar dinner".

Munawar Hasan has warned pro-Qadyani moles in Pakistani establishment and media to halt their propaganda. They want to create a 'Nazi-style persecution myth' in Pakistan to fulfill their long term interests.

 

[GulAhmad]

Gazoo Bhai.... The Jewish-Ahmedi Nexus is further exemplified by above video. Israeli President is in Ahmedi worship center for so called "aftaar dinner".

Munawar Hasan has warned pro-Qadyani moles in Pakistani establishment and media to halt their propaganda. They want to create a 'Nazi-style persecution myth' in Pakistan to fulfill their long term interests.

YEH BA ZARA DEHEKEN
[video]http://www.youtube.com/user/islamiminaar#p/u/76/-TG3dIgDzZg[/video]

 

[gazoomartian]

We all know there has ti be a reason why the HQ of qadyani is in Jeruslem

 

[bons]

A strong case can be made against the JI leader for fomenting aggression and religious persecution under the country’s laws regarding hate speech and incitement to violence

The street power and political clout wielded by Pakistan’s religious right have resulted in the state and society being held hostage by extremist elements. The latter stop at nothing to further their agenda of inciting hatred, divisiveness and violence. The latest example is that of the Jamaat-i-Islami chief, Syed Munawwar Hasan, who during a sermon in Lahore on Friday threatened a fresh movement against the Ahmadi community if it “did not accept their minority status” and the government kept silent about “their blasphemous and unconstitutional activities”.

Mr Hasan did not specify any particular instance substantiating his charges, leading one to read his comments as hate speech and also as an attempt to blackmail the government into further victimising an already persecuted community. Given the incendiary passions the issue arouses, any call by religious parties in this context is certain to be attended by violence. A strong case can be made against the JI leader for fomenting aggression and religious persecution under the country’s laws regarding hate speech and incitement to violence.

Even beyond this particular case, it has now become a matter of urgency that the government show an active and uncompromising stance on the issue of hate speech and incitement to violence or other sorts of criminal activity. Pakistan’s polity is already rent by religious, ethnic and sectarian divisions. Allowing irresponsible and divisive opinions to be aired publicly will deepen these fissures. Once it begins, the process of religious, ethnic and other communities being pitted against one another will prove difficult to bring under control. Spiralling violence, particularly in view of other issues being faced by the country such as militancy and terrorism, can then be expected. It is in the interests of both the state and citizenry to take a stand against inflammatory hate speech and lobby for the prosecution of those who break the law.
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect...-newspaper/editorial/21-hate-speech-160-sk-04

Altaf Hussain is biggest supporter of qadianis. Why don't you advise him to register a case against this speech?

What is wrong in the highlighted portion? Qadianis are a minority and they must obey the law. Government should also act against them if they go against their minority status.

Please don't start such baseless threads.

 

[Geek]

For all my brothers who say that minorities are safe and protected under Islam
Friends,
1. What do you all have to say about the above statement of the JeI chief?

Contra , read again where did he say they are going to kill qadiyanis, he just said we will launch movement against them. And yes there is a great need of an educational movement to show the world the difference between true Muslims and qadaiyanis.

2. He condemned terrorist attack on the Ahmedis, but, we know what JeI did in 1953...

When he condemned the attack on qadiyani it means they are not supporting these killings and will not do it.

3. Does the JeI chief not know what true Islam is? I am of course not a muslim, but, when i exchange view with other members on this forum, everyone of them says that minorities are protected under your ideology...

Yes monitories are protected and who ever will kill them he will get punishment in this world and hereafter.

4. I will be grateful if someone could explain this contradiction...

Contra, I know you are not here to know and learn about Islam, actually your avatar best describe you, you just want to tease us like a monkey. now you give me an answer when a Hindu extremist do a hate speech against minorities should we say, it is because of Hindu religion?? And also assume same thing about other religions if any of their follower give hate speech??

 

[bons]

For all my brothers who say that minorities are safe and protected under Islam
Friends,
1. What do you all have to say about the above statement of the JeI chief?

2. He condemned terrorist attack on the Ahmedis, but, we know what JeI did in 1953...

3. Does the JeI chief not know what true Islam is? I am of course not a muslim, but, when i exchange view with other members on this forum, everyone of them says that minorities are protected under your ideology...

4. I will be grateful if someone could explain this contradiction...

1. JI chief said that they will start another movement against Ahmedis if they did not accept their minority status. Rest is addition by the journalist. Everyone is free to starting a movement. It's not against the law. He has not said that they will act against Ahmedis. In India extremist Hindus are freely attacking minorities (not only Muslims).
2. It is good that he condemned terrorist attacks on Ahmedis. What is your question here?
3. Islam means peace and peace can be achieved by strict check & balance and ongoing accountability of the offenders. I think JI chief is a learned man and he knows well what Islam is. If govenment fails to curb Ahmedis' clandestine activities then any one can start a movement to urge government to take appropriate action. It is not against Islam in any way. There are many other issues on which movement should be started (like corruption) but I think they are pressing on this due to their composition.
4. What is the contradiction?

 

[omerkashmiri]

For all my brothers who say that minorities are safe and protected under Islam
Friends,
1. What do you all have to say about the above statement of the JeI chief?

2. He condemned terrorist attack on the Ahmedis, but, we know what JeI did in 1953...

3. Does the JeI chief not know what true Islam is? I am of course not a muslim, but, when i exchange view with other members on this forum, everyone of them says that minorities are protected under your ideology...

4. I will be grateful if someone could explain this contradiction...

Thats what JI leader said in speech that they must accept the fact that they are minority and only then they are entitled for their minority rights. To keep it simple they are free to practice their religion as long as they admit it , its another religion , nothing to do with islam.

 

[Zaidi Qasim]

To those who use the well orchastrated jewish weapon in western societies reagrding free speech, it is abslouteluy none sense to bring the speech of Munawar Hussain under hate speech laws. Over the time , we have seen what the western press and their mentors have done on the name of free speech on one hand, and on the name of hate laws on the other. As per the law of the land, the Qadyanis are non muslims and they have been declared non muslims as well. There are those who used voilence against Qadyanis and maligned the name of Muslims in that incident on one hand, and then there are those who sympathize with qadyanis and have been fighting to restore their old status . I am against those who already proven that voilence is the only way forward and they made qadyanis their victim.I do not think that these kind of people able to claim themselves muslim.To the same token, I also oppose few of those who use this voilence aganist qadyanis to fullfill their agenda.That including one of our ethnical party and its leader sitting in London. As far as Munawar Hussain is concerned, he rightly warned the second group to back off. Off course, now they will use all available avenues to balme him for inciting voilence.But that will not sell. I feel sorry for the writter of this article.I think he should pay more attention to other affairs in the country which demand immediate attention instead of wasting time of this worthless article.

 

[Night-Hawk]

Jitne bade Musalman heen wo bi sare gante heen,Tum wo log ho jo Amerca ko gali dete ho aur agar tumeen amerca ka visa mil gaye to Bahg kar jate ho,
DEHKO ZARA AAP KI ULMA KEYA KAR RAHE HEEN,[video]http://www.youtube.com/user/islamiminaar#p/u/76/-TG3dIgDzZg[/video]

Nope ! We are not against America in totality. We only hate certain people (noecons and zionists) who make anti-muslim policies and occupy their lands. There are for sure men of conscience in America, who raise their voices against Israel, drone attacks in Pakistan and war in Iraq/Afghanistan. Do not generalize the things. As far as going to America is concerned , I shall say "Har Mulk, Mulk-e-Ma'ast Keh Mulk-e-Khuadaai Ma'ast"
After all it was the same America which was once land of Red Indians. Then Europeans occupied it by the means , both of us know. Then neo-colonists pushed out their colonial masters (British). Whose land is this?
As far as Sir Zafar Ullah Khan is concerned, I only say that I liked his initial role as foreign minister of Pakistan. But then after seeing anti-qadiani protests, he switched sides , which is better evidenced by his saying "Aap Mujhay Kisi Musalman Mulk ka Kafir Wazeer-e-Kharijah , ya kisi Kafir Mulk ka Musalman Wazir-e-Kharijah Samajh lein" This was the time when geopolitics changed. Qadiani's hopes to convert a larger chunk of Muslims doomed. Situation on-ground went out of their hands. So they sought 'natural allies' outside.
Head of state giving state protocol to another head of state (be him an Israeli or an Indian), cannot be compared to a 'Jamaat' giving (religious) protocol to a zionist. This will certainly fall within 'religious policies' of the cult and not within 'state protocol' of the aforementioned governments. You claim to be Muslims and also claim that you fraternity is regarded as Muslim Arab within Israel. Then how come you enjoy full citizen privileges in Israel? While the Arab Muslims are regarded as second class citizens.

 

[contra]

Friends,
1. I asked a simple question, and the answer i got was that there are certain conditions to be fulfilled, after that the minority will be safe...

2. hmmm...
Just consider the following situation:
a) Your shahada says that - there is no god but allah, and Mr. Mohammad is his messanger.

b) Now the Hindus, Sikhs, Christians and Jews and everyone else will be offended by this, because this statement claims that all other gods are false...

c) Now how would you feel if we in India ask our muslim brothers that they will be treated well only when they fulfill the condition that they not say the shahada, and only then they will be treated as an equal citizen...Only when they fulfill the above condition will they be allowed to hold important posts in the government etc.

d) Please answer this question.

3. My brothers, people and communities will disagree with you, especially in the matters of faith.
This is the main reason for the Separation of Religion and State that is enforced in the west and other progressive countries...

Think about it...

 

[contra]

Contra, I know you are not here to know and learn about Islam, actually your avatar best describe you, you just want to tease us like a monkey. now you give me an answer when a Hindu extremist do a hate speech against minorities should we say, it is because of Hindu religion?? And also assume same thing about other religions if any of their follower give hate speech??

Geek bhai,
1. My avatar stands for Evolution.

2. My friend, religion is open to interpretation and exploitation. The person who acts in the name of religion speaks for it and represents it. Period.

3. If the moderates do not take any action, then definitely the hardliners and fundamentalists will become the representatives.

4. The condition of minorities in our country is not perfect, but, it is far better than many other countries, including your country.

 

[Geek]

Contra may be asking question is easy but replying isn't I am still waiting for your reply of my question

Friends,
1. I asked a simple question, and the answer i got was that there are certain conditions to be fulfilled, after that the minority will be safe...

For all citizens there are conditions to live if anyone regardless of his faith will act against the interest of Pakistan will be punished.

2. hmmm...
Just consider the following situation:
a) Your shahada says that - there is no God but Allah, and Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) is His messanger.

b) Now the Hindus, Sikhs, Christians and Jews and everyone else will be offended by this, because this statement claims that all other gods are false...

contra this comment speaks of your intellectual level, Shahada means declaring what you believe.

Christian and Jews have their own shahada and sikhs and hindus would have some sentences to say. How on earth one can get offended by these sentences and can say they are claiming my god false.

c) Now how would you feel if we in India ask our muslim brothers that they will be treated well only when they fulfill the condition that they not say the shahada, and only then they will be treated as an equal citizen...Only when they fulfill the above condition will they be allowed to hold important posts in the government etc.

d) Please answer this question.

Again shahada is some thing related to belief, all loyal citizens have right to live in their country.

3. My brothers, people and communities will disagree with you, especially in the matters of faith.
This is the main reason for the Separation of Religion and State that is enforced in the west and other progressive countries...

We will also disagree with them if they will disagree with us.
Its depends on the people of Pakistan to decide what they need, no one has any right to decide what type of system should we practice.

Think about it...

Think about it......

 

[Night-Hawk]

Friends,
1. I asked a simple question, and the answer i got was that there are certain conditions to be fulfilled, after that the minority will be safe...

2. hmmm...
Just consider the following situation:
a) Your shahada says that - there is no god but allah, and Mr. Mohammad is his messanger.

b) Now the Hindus, Sikhs, Christians and Jews and everyone else will be offended by this, because this statement claims that all other gods are false...

c) Now how would you feel if we in India ask our muslim brothers that they will be treated well only when they fulfill the condition that they not say the shahada, and only then they will be treated as an equal citizen...Only when they fulfill the above condition will they be allowed to hold important posts in the government etc.

d) Please answer this question.

3. My brothers, people and communities will disagree with you, especially in the matters of faith.
This is the main reason for the Separation of Religion and State that is enforced in the west and other progressive countries...

Think about it...

I think before I answer to what you have said, I shall put up a question ? Why Shoodar (Dalit) being a Hindu, and equal citizen has been historically regarded untouchable? If state has no laws regarding this then we can safely say that this has been practiced as a social norm. Why? You cannot quit by saying that your law abolishes caste system but it is practiced. (The same de facto vs de jure debate .... i m fed up of it)

Qadiyani community with their false beliefs intermingled with Muslims. It was this covert approach to hijack the beliefs of majority which led to a widespread agony. If some hindu in your community comes up with a notion that all hindu gods and goddesses to this date are defunct and henceforth his own cult ought to be worshiped, while insisting on his hinduism. Will you allow him to flourish as a hindu and his belief as hinduism? The answer is a big NO. How can you when your fanatics demolished babri mosque just to please their beasts within?

Shahada is the first pillar of entry into Islamic faith. Islamic faith also dictates Muslims to protect Hindus, Sikhs, Christians and others like Qadiaynis within their realm. Ofcourse a non-Muslim will not agree to the statement of Shahada (thats why he is a non-Muslim) and he is free to profess his religion but he will be a declared "non muslim". We know them and he knows us ... thats fair enough. However he will not be allowed to dictate Muslims (of what Islam is ?) and similarly he will not be allowed to call his false beliefs as Islam with in declared Islamic state.

All citizens technically in an Islamic state are equal , however Islamic state reserves the right to protect the Islamic cause if and when needed. No Hindu will be persecuted until or unless he clashes with the state or religion. This is what we say unequivocally while your government acts covertly by protecting the Hindu rights with false facade of 'secularism'.

We on the other hand do not wish to impose our Shahada on non-Muslims. They are equal citizens and they can join almost all important posts except President and Prime-Minister (who must be muslims according to our constitution). So there is no question about it.

People and communities differ on many issues. Communism clashed with Capitalism. Christianity clashed with Judaism. Liberals clash with conservatives. Right wing with left wing and so on........ There is always difference of opinion.

To think that religion and state separation is must for progress is preposterous. There are many progressive western countries with Christianity as state religion. All you need are honest and upright leaders and then no one will stop your progress.

 

[Geek]

Geek bhai,
1. My avatar stands for Evolution.

ok now i understand your problem :P

2. My friend, religion is open to interpretation and exploitation. The person who acts in the name of religion speaks for it and represents it. Period.

So the hindus who are killing minorities are true representatives of hindu religion??

3. If the moderates do not take any action, then definitely the hardliners and fundamentalists will become the representatives.

We have our own moderates to take care of hardliners and fundamentals you better take care of your own hardliners and fundamentals, but i am afraid you wouldn't coz you are looking one of them who is here just to criticize with negative intentions

4. The condition of minorities in our country is not perfect, but, it is far better than many other countries, including your country.

Yeah whole world knows about it, for example, Gujrat riots, operation blue star, untouchable dalits, raping and killing nuns etc etc.