Front Line - 6th Sep 2011 - Marvi Sarmad & Mufti Abdul Qavi - Personal Freedom, State and Religion

[modern fakir]

lol lol ...So when you dont have a comeback ..Its waste of server space ??? [hilar][hilar]

what i showed you IS common in your culture ..I can show you as many articles as you like about such marriages ..Here I will leave you with a Classic One ..this one is my personal favorite ...lol lol[hilar][hilar]

It was actually so famous that it Hit International Headlines
[h=1]Man in India marries dog as atonement[/h]
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21768663/ns/world_news-weird_news/t/man-india-marries-dog-atonement/

[hilar][hilar][hilar]

Oh come on Rahul ...when are you throwing a party for Newly Wed Couple Here ...Arent they CUTEEee.....lol ..hahahahahah...The Groom must be a REAL ANIMALLL ...hahahahahahahah

You are a funny man :)

First you give me some news articles and try to prove that these things are common in "my" culture.
Then you say even if what I said about Mughals was true....what does it prove ?

Arguing with you is a waste of server space.

 

[kifayat]

ان صاحبہ کے ساتھ مغز ماری کرنے کی کوئی ضرورت ہی نہیں تھی ۔۔۔ سیدھی اور سچی اور کھری بات ہے کہ پاکستان کا قانون کہتا ہے قرآن و سنت سے بالا تر کوئی چیز نہیں ۔۔۔ اللہ کا کلام اور رسول ﷺ کی سنت اور ارشادات سے بڑھ کر کسی کی یہ حیثیت نہیں کہ وہ شخصی آزادی کی بات کرے ْ۔ ایک ہندو عورت کیا جانے قرآن کا اس معاملے میں کتنا دوٹوک فیصلہ ہے ۔۔ اس عورت کے ساتھ بات وہ بھی ایسے موضوع پر ۔۔،دیوار کے ساتھ سر مارنے والی بات ہے ۔۔۔ اللہ کا قانون بڑا ہے یا انسانی خواہشات ؟ اور وہ بھی ایسی خواہشات جو ہر مذہب میں ممنوع ہے ۔۔۔ شرم آنی چاہیے اس عورت کو جو اس طرح پاکستان میں بیٹھ کر اول فول بکے جا رہی ہے ۔ گے اور لیسبین ہو مو سیکشویلٹی میں نہیں آتے تو پھر کس زمرے میں آتے ہیں ؟؟؟؟؟؟ یہ ہمارا میڈیا ہے جو اس طرح کے موضوعات پر ایسے لوگوں کو بلا لیتا ہے اور پاکستان کی تشکیل کو مشکوک بنانے کیلئے ایسے پروگرام کیے جاتے ہیں کہ قائد اعظم ایک سیکولر اسٹیٹ چاہتے تھے ہا مذھبی ؟؟؟ سب لوگ خود اپنے دماغوں سے سوچیں کہ اقبال کے ۱۹۳۰ میں دیے گئے خطبے اور ۱۹۴۰ کی قرارداد کے پاس ہونے کے بعد جو نعرے لگائے گئے کہ پاکستان کا مطلب کیا لا الہ الا اللہ تو یہ کس بات کی عکاسی کر تا ہے ۔۔ اگر ایک سیکولر سٹیٹ ی بنانی تھی تو اس نعرے کا کیا فائدہ ؟ قائد نے یہ کیوں کہا کہ پاکستان کا آئین مجھے یقین ہے کہ قرآنی اصولوں پر ہی بنے گا ۔ کیا آپ قائد کو اتنا بے ایمان اور دھوکہ باز سمجھ رہے ہیں ک انھوں نے یہ نعرے لگوا کر چھ لاکھ سے زیادہ لوگوں کا خون بہایا اور پھر اپنی سوچ بدل کر سیکو لر کرلی
؟؟؟ حقائق اور تاریخ کو دھوکہ دیتے ہوئے کچھ تو شرم کریں ی لوگ ۔۔۔۔ اور ان لوگوں میں یہ ہندو محترمہ بھی شامل ہیں ۔ ہمیں ان کے ہندو ہونے پر غصہ نہیں ۔۔۔ بلکہ جو باتیں یہ پھیلا رہی ہیں اس پر غصہ ہیں کہ جس کا یہ حق ہی نہیں وہ ہمیں سکھائے کہ کیا صحیح تھا کیا غلط ۔۔۔
کوا چلا ہنس کی چال اپنی چال بھی بھول گیا ۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔
ایسے لوگ پاکستان کو ہنس کی چال چلوا کر اسے اس کے مقصد سے دور کرنا چاہتے ہیں اور یہ ہم ہونے نہیں دیں گے ۔۔۔۔ ان شاء اللہ
پاکستان کا نام پہچان اور بیشتر قوانین اسلامی ضرور ہیں لیکن اس کی لیڈر شپ ، اس کا ماحول ، اس کا میڈیا سراسر غیر اسلامی ہے ۔

 

[shah5]

whatever she said is complete BULLSHIT.....she is even below nonsense.....i pray that another mumtaz qadri should come and cut her head off....if she loves homosexuality so much then i advise her to take her children (if they agree with her) with herself to saint lucia and enjoy a happy life there full of homosexuality with her children but here on PAKISTANI ISLAMIC SOIL we will never let this happen even if costs our life....somebody please kill this ***** :angry_smile:

 

[mjzafar]

Bro, if he will act neutral in the debate of homosexuality, then he is playing part in this dirty propaganda.

I think he should have joined the far right club, and have informed his fan-following that homosexuality is one of the biggest sins.

I resent his secular and so-called unbiased approach.

He did that at the end. The work of anchor has to show neutrality but he has actually shown inclination against homosexuality. He brought this excellent example of France to prove his point. That's how an anchor should be. Please reassess him in this program and you'll probably get less angry on him :)

 

[desicad]

whatever she said is complete BULLSHIT.....she is even below nonsense.....i pray that another mumtaz qadri should come and cut her head off....if she loves homosexuality so much then i advise her to take her children (if they agree with her) with herself to saint lucia and enjoy a happy life there full of homosexuality with her children but here on PAKISTANI ISLAMIC SOIL we will never let this happen even if costs our life....somebody please kill this ***** :angry_smile:

lo kar lo baat.....ek aur mulla ki sawari aa gayi..........:lol:

 

[barhaich]

He did that at the end. The work of anchor has to show neutrality but he has actually shown inclination against homosexuality. He brought this excellent example of France to prove his point. That's how an anchor should be. Please reassess him in this program and you'll probably get less angry on him :)

OK, I'll re-watch the show whenever I have time, BTW Orya Maqbool Jan was awesome.

 

[waseem563]

پہلے بھی ایک ہیرو بنے نکلا تھا ... بیچارہ اب فوٹو پر لٹکا ہے ،،،،،،
تیرا (ماروی) کیا ہوگا کالیا ..؟؟؟؟​

 

[waseem563]

سو فیصد مے اپ سے متفق ہوں کفایت بھائی ،،،، لکن ان اجنٹوں کے لیے نرم لھجے مے بات کرنا ٹھیک نہیں،، جہاں بھی اسلام اور پاکستان کے خلاف زھر اگلا جائے گا ،،، اس کا مو توڑ جواب دیا

​

جائے گا ،،،

 

[waseem563]

i don't know how many QADRIS watch this program,,,,,,

 

[mrasif80]

I have not seen this program but I can understand that what is the topic of this program. The anchor and the tv channel have just earned money by doing this program and nothing else. But they don't feel any shame in discussing something that is absolute rubbish and nonsense. The Marvi Sarmad represents a class which can never be put as leaders of our nation. She represents that ultra liberal class. I have no grudges against her, but one thing is understandable she is lost in the materialistic world which has to expire and she has no idea what she is doing or preaching.

 

[adnan_younus]

again if u had brains u wud understand my point... i am against homos but to present yr case u have to give correct logic.. when orya gaen this example.. it was an incorrect one.... when orya said every society has their laws that was teh correct argument.... refer to my other comments with eyes and brains open

you didn't answer my question. why you have to find rare example to prove homosexuality right. why don't you see millions and billions of example around the world who are heterosexual. but you are denying the fact because of which you came into existence. I think you are regretting to came into being and wish your parents were homosexual.

 

[adnan_younus]

of course gay relation is common with mammals thats not the argument....

argument is every society has laws.... prostitution is not allowed because majority are against it.... even in india obsece scenes are not allowed while in US they are allowed...

i personally wud feel very uncomfortable with a person who termed himself a gay... thats a natural reaction to an unnatural act....

and by they way...

why a lesbian kissing movie is rated 16 and male male kissing is 18+ in amreeka.. also they easy show lesbian kissing in normal tv but gay kissing is rarely shown... there is a degree of uncomfort attached to it even if US about different type of gays ...

and its a complete incorrect analogy about black men and gays.... if gays increase in number such that they will be a big part of the society... they will of course have their rights.. currently they are outlawed in pakistan.. simplzzz

so how does culture change? in america to gain civil rights for blacks, large number of activists like marvi and asma jahangir had to protest, write articles, stage rallies and go against conventional wisdom and be called anti-national, agents etc to finaly achieve rights. many people dies for e.g. in the selma massacre, in kent state university in the 70's. any sensible progressive person will have to take their side rather than the side of regressive idiots like orya etc. for your info not only is gay relation common amongst other mammals it also common in birds especially mallards and ducks/geese.

and it is not the %age that is important, even blind people are small %age of population, doesn't mean they are lesser human beings. human social and sexual evolution in complex and trying to analyse it from the narroe prism of religion is foolish.

 

[jujuju]

india has over a billion ppl. do you really think that you can characterize indians generally like this. anyways i said that my being indian is not very important as it is just an accident of birth. i am not here to mock anyone. but of course i think two nation theory is stupidity after reading a large number of books including books written by and on jinnah.

similarly if you wanna critisize gandhi, plz go ahead but it has to be academic. not random tribalism.

I can understand where he is comiing from and again where you are coming from but there is a problem!!

you are trying to show sincerity but is that what india and indians do in genera, l no they don't.
Indians are here to mock at us when there are sueside bomb blasts, balochistan issue and karachi Killing etc, and we also know indians involvement in that very clearly.
We don't see praise from any indians on something that is showing other progressive sides of pakistan instead you come and like Marvi sermad 9and people like her) who challenges 'two nation theory in public'. the back lash you get from here is natural. If I go and disregard Ghandhi's freedom struggle in public in india, indians are hardly going to consider me as their hero or saviour and give me flowers...
I have indians friends and we can sit and discuss things that we have common, but that doesn't mean they should come and stab us from behind and we should keep our mouths shut. Shame on us if we do!!

 

[InsafianPTI]

india has over a billion ppl. do you really think that you can characterize indians generally like this. anyways i said that my being indian is not very important as it is just an accident of birth. i am not here to mock anyone. but of course i think two nation theory is stupidity after reading a large number of books including books written by and on jinnah.

similarly if you wanna critisize gandhi, plz go ahead but it has to be academic. not random tribalism.

This is it, the only indians who have problems with two nation theory or Jinnah or islam in general (I am not saying you are doing all that) come here on website and always say things which are against the wishes of the mainstream pakistanis.
I respect people of every nationality including indians, so not holding that against anyone in general, but if we see a person criticising stupidly with indian flag on this website, people do conider it as an attack like I said before and people react.
your view about jinnah and two nation theory is your view, I don't think anyone is going to agree with you here. He has given us a saperate home land to live in and we are thankful to him thats why we remember him so much, it has direct affect on our lives thats why it concerns us the most, otherwise there were so many great muslim leaders in history that people hardly ever talk about.
if you are friends with paksitanis than you should respect their leaders and their sentiments too (if you are a true friend).
I can't go and insult other people's leaders and national views just because I don't like them or my views differ from them . Again giving opinion is different and insulting is different.
Ghandi was just ghandi, I don't think I ever criticised him unnecessarily I know people do come up with lots of logic to criticise him, I only used him as an example. I reallyhave no idea about what you mean by 'random tribalism'.

 

[Narcissist]

ماروی زندہ باد۔ قادری مردہ باد
مذہبی بیمار ذہنیت والو !!! سن لو۔ماروی موت سے ڈرنے والی نہیں۔ اور قاتل قادری کو پھول پہنانے والے ہیجڑے اب نظر کیوں نہیں آ رہے۔ آو ماروی تم کو للکارتی ہے۔ ماروی جب تک سانسیں ہیں، جب تک آس ہے، بولو۔
منافقت اور دو رخے پن نےاس مردہ معاشرے نے نتھنے بند کیئے ہوئے ہیں۔ مذہبی جنونیت نے ان کو عقل اور سوچ کی جبلت سے عاری کردیا ہے۔ آزاد انسان کے قاتل کو پھول پہنانے والی بیمار ذہنیت ، بے راہ روی اور ظلمتوں کی راہوں پہ چلتی بہت آگے جا چکی ہے۔
انسان آزاد پیدا ہوا ہے۔ یہ بیمار مذہبی جنونی اس آزادی کو کب تک روک سکیں گے؟؟؟​

 

[mjzafar]

OK, I'll re-watch the show whenever I have time, BTW Orya Maqbool Jan was awesome.

Yeah, definitely he was. Also, read my comments on what the answer should have been... take care

 

[moodali]

Re: Front Line - 6th Sep 2011 - Marvi Sarmad & Mufti Abdul Qavi - Limits of Interference of Religion & State in Personal matt

eemaan ki kamzori ko inbility of dialogue keh kar Allah ko bewkoof bana rahay ho ? Jis cheez ko Allah aur uski kitaab nay mana kar dia , us par dialogue ki zaroorat hai eik musalmaan ko ?

SIR JEE :alhamd:MAIN BHI MUSALMAN HON AUR IS CHEEZ KO BOHAT BURA SAMAJHTA HON LEKIN MERA POINT OF VIEW YEH HAI KE HAMAIN BEING A MUSLIM DOOSRON KO CONVANCE KARNAY KE LIYE YEH CHEEZ MALOOM HONA CHAHIYE KE YEH CHEEZ KIYON GHALTA HAI AUR AGAR KOI IS BEMARI MAIN MUBTILA HO TO OSSE KAISE IS CHEEZ SE BACHAYA JA SAKTA HAI MERAY KHAYAL MAIN IS TARAH DEAL KARNAY SE HAMAIN KISI MUMTAZ QADRI KI ZAROORAT NAHI PADAY GI.

 

[jujuju]

i respect my pakistani friends as my friends, not as pakistanis. beyond that i freely criticize jinnah in front of them and they have never objected, because they know that I am academic in my criticism and i dont do partybazi. i criticize gandhi also quite a lot. my critique of jinnah is based on studying many books including books of his own speeches:
for e.g. Problem of India’s future constitution, and allied articles / selected by Quaid-e-Azam. also for e.g. reading khan wali khan's book available at
http://www.awaminationalparty.org/books/factsarefacts.pdf or KK Aziz'z book. anyways i am not here to convince anyone of my position, because there is a famous saying "you cannot convince somebody out of something, to which they have not convinced themselves into". most people in this forum certainly and overall in general, dont read books, dont read scholarly articles, then how will they have any idea who gandhi was or who jinnah was? vahi kuch ghatiya danishwaron ki baat sun sun ke apna idea formulate karte hain.

tribalism is used to describe the tendency of human beings to support their own (tribe) for no other reason but that they belong to that tribe even if that belonging is notional.

This is it, the only indians who have problems with two nation theory or Jinnah or islam in general (I am not saying you are doing all that) come here on website and always say things which are against the wishes of the mainstream pakistanis.
I respect people of every nationality including indians, so not holding that against anyone in general, but if we see a person criticising stupidly with indian flag on this website, people do conider it as an attack like I said before and people react.
your view about jinnah and two nation theory is your view, I don't think anyone is going to agree with you here. He has given us a saperate home land to live in and we are thankful to him thats why we remember him so much, it has direct affect on our lives thats why it concerns us the most, otherwise there were so many great muslim leaders in history that people hardly ever talk about.
if you are friends with paksitanis than you should respect their leaders and their sentiments too (if you are a true friend).
I can't go and insult other people's leaders and national views just because I don't like them or my views differ from them . Again giving opinion is different and insulting is different.
Ghandi was just ghandi, I don't think I ever criticised him unnecessarily I know people do come up with lots of logic to criticise him, I only used him as an example. I reallyhave no idea about what you mean by 'random tribalism'.

 

[InsafianPTI]

i respect my pakistani friends as my friends, not as pakistanis. beyond that i freely criticize jinnah in front of them and they have never objected, because they know that I am academic in my criticism and i dont do partybazi. i criticize gandhi also quite a lot. my critique of jinnah is based on studying many books including books of his own speeches:
for e.g. Problem of India’s future constitution, and allied articles / selected by Quaid-e-Azam. also for e.g. reading khan wali khan's book available at
http://www.awaminationalparty.org/books/factsarefacts.pdf or KK Aziz'z book. anyways i am not here to convince anyone of my position, because there is a famous saying "you cannot convince somebody out of something, to which they have not convinced themselves into". most people in this forum certainly and overall in general, dont read books, dont read scholarly articles, then how will they have any idea who gandhi was or who jinnah was? vahi kuch ghatiya danishwaron ki baat sun sun ke apna idea formulate karte hain.

tribalism is used to describe the tendency of human beings to support their own (tribe) for no other reason but that they belong to that tribe even if that belonging is notional.

I don't know what kind of criticism you do on jinnah and ofcourse I'm normally good to listen to criticm but I do have strong views on certain things. I love the fact that he made pakistan although this is not what he wanted initially (not because I hate hindus in general, I think it is better for us muslims that way, we should still try to live like two brothers, there is nothing wrong with that).

Of course he was a human being I cannot expect him to get everything right, nobody is perfect.
I have read scholarly articles from international journals on different issues, mostly about my work and studies, reading pakistan -india history just by choice(not for exam or assignment) it would be boring for me at this age:), probably when I am 30-40 years old I would think about that, Not now!!!!
and I need to get some sleep now its nearly half past four and I have not slept......

 

[shah5]

lo kar lo baat.....ek aur mulla ki sawari aa gayi..........:lol:

yehi mulla sub kuck kartae hain, they r not like u who will just watch the program and comment on it....they are the one who do what has to be done