insaf_tiger
Banned
some good points this man has
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Fabrication of two nation theory M J Akbar
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patriot
Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: some good points this man has
He has got it all wrong .
Idea of Pakistan was religion versus Deen .
Mullahs of that time were against the idea because they thought that in united India muslims were free to go to their mosques and do their rituals .
Where as Quid e Azam and Allama Iqbal's idea was that Islam as a Deen can not be implemented without a muslim State .
Allama Iqbal's answer to mullah's nation state was as follows:
MULLAH KO JO HAI HIND MEIN SAJDE KI IJAZAT
NADAAN YEH SAMAJHTA HAI KE ISLAM HAI AZAD.
He has got it all wrong .
Idea of Pakistan was religion versus Deen .
Mullahs of that time were against the idea because they thought that in united India muslims were free to go to their mosques and do their rituals .
Where as Quid e Azam and Allama Iqbal's idea was that Islam as a Deen can not be implemented without a muslim State .
Allama Iqbal's answer to mullah's nation state was as follows:
MULLAH KO JO HAI HIND MEIN SAJDE KI IJAZAT
NADAAN YEH SAMAJHTA HAI KE ISLAM HAI AZAD.
PIND-WALA
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: some good points this man has
Hello Insaf_tiger,
A little about manners and attiquetes about posting new threads on this forum
Please do not just post a link here with no explaination whatsoever reg the hyperlink and why you are posting it ad what are you own thoughts . Please keep that in mind.
Reg the link and book written by this Indian dude and his speech in front of Canadians who are least familiar with history of subcontinent and ideology of Pakistan . I have watched the whole damn speech of over 1 hr and find it useless.
His mention of nation theory that Religions don't form Nations is upto you to believe .I would say Language and region don't make nation either. There are plenty of examples in the world .Canada and USA is biggest , both call themselves different nations .They were formed around same time . same people, same language, same legal system and same region and yet are different nations . Now what you believe on what constitutes a nation is upto you.
Most of the lecture is aimed at highlighting India as an emerging and very modern nation and Pakistan has all the wrongs in the world right from getgo is simply propaganda and an attempt to sell his book.
Hello Insaf_tiger,
A little about manners and attiquetes about posting new threads on this forum
Please do not just post a link here with no explaination whatsoever reg the hyperlink and why you are posting it ad what are you own thoughts . Please keep that in mind.
Reg the link and book written by this Indian dude and his speech in front of Canadians who are least familiar with history of subcontinent and ideology of Pakistan . I have watched the whole damn speech of over 1 hr and find it useless.
His mention of nation theory that Religions don't form Nations is upto you to believe .I would say Language and region don't make nation either. There are plenty of examples in the world .Canada and USA is biggest , both call themselves different nations .They were formed around same time . same people, same language, same legal system and same region and yet are different nations . Now what you believe on what constitutes a nation is upto you.
Most of the lecture is aimed at highlighting India as an emerging and very modern nation and Pakistan has all the wrongs in the world right from getgo is simply propaganda and an attempt to sell his book.
Res1Pect
Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: some good points this man has
عرض کیا ہے
امریکا اور کینیڈا دو قومیں نہیں ہیں
دو ملک ہیں
جہاں مختلف قوموں کے لوگ بستے ہیں
قوم مذہب سے ہے، مذہب جو نہیں تم بھی نہیں @
جذب باہم بھی نہیں ، محفل انجم بھی نہیں
عرض کیا ہے
امریکا اور کینیڈا دو قومیں نہیں ہیں
دو ملک ہیں
جہاں مختلف قوموں کے لوگ بستے ہیں
قوم مذہب سے ہے، مذہب جو نہیں تم بھی نہیں @
جذب باہم بھی نہیں ، محفل انجم بھی نہیں
PIND-WALA
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: some good points this man has
That speaker was implying this idea that religions dont make nations but geography and language etc help define nation .I gave hi example a region with much common ad yet not the same nation.
That speaker was implying this idea that religions dont make nations but geography and language etc help define nation .I gave hi example a region with much common ad yet not the same nation.
Veila Mast
Senator (1k+ posts)
Re: some good points this man has
His arguments are nothing but a joke.
He said that DEMOCRACY was suspicious at that CONTEMPORARY times as it produced Hitler and Mussolini!
Does he even know history of democracy, where on earth it started and how it saw it end in history!!!!
Does he even know about history of modern democracy!
Even in this CONTEMPORARY times if democracy is succeeding!!! If so then why in India are separatist movements!!!!
Even India is democratic country!!!
If so why riots in India in 84, 92, 02 and now Muzaffarnagar happened which obviously are not against Hindus!!!!
That what we call pseudo intellectuals.
His arguments are nothing but a joke.
He said that DEMOCRACY was suspicious at that CONTEMPORARY times as it produced Hitler and Mussolini!
Does he even know history of democracy, where on earth it started and how it saw it end in history!!!!
Does he even know about history of modern democracy!
Even in this CONTEMPORARY times if democracy is succeeding!!! If so then why in India are separatist movements!!!!
Even India is democratic country!!!
If so why riots in India in 84, 92, 02 and now Muzaffarnagar happened which obviously are not against Hindus!!!!
That what we call pseudo intellectuals.
Re: some good points this man has
I found this two hour lecture from Dr Israr which is most profoundly enlightening for us third generation Pakistanis who have some how lost touch with the ideological roots of Pakistan. I have put this link on numerous threads on the forum, it is priceless. It is a must for all who yearn to learn about the narrative of Pakistan as a Islamic state!!
http://tune.pk/video/59393/Quaid-e-A...Dr-Israr-AHMED
I found this two hour lecture from Dr Israr which is most profoundly enlightening for us third generation Pakistanis who have some how lost touch with the ideological roots of Pakistan. I have put this link on numerous threads on the forum, it is priceless. It is a must for all who yearn to learn about the narrative of Pakistan as a Islamic state!!
http://tune.pk/video/59393/Quaid-e-A...Dr-Israr-AHMED
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Res1Pect
Minister (2k+ posts)
only_truths
Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: some good points this man has
Look at Europe, the religion is same but the geography and language etc., defined the countries.
Look at Europe, the religion is same but the geography and language etc., defined the countries.
Ali raza babar
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Res1Pect
Minister (2k+ posts)
RustamShah
Banned
M J Akbar view on M.A. Jinnah and two nation theory
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RustamShah
Banned
Since when Islam becomes a Nationalist movement ? It wasn't, but used as a tool to get an object and I think we Pakistanis still doing it !
Islam was not used as an object in freedom of Pak, if that's what u r trying to imply. Go live in an extremist Hindu (or any other religion's) area in India for few days and u might understand the need and importance of this country. If you say "we" are still doing it (i.e including u) then shame on u!
RustamShah
Banned
Its a Socio-political problem, its the same treatment we give our minorities in Pakistan so they have a right to break a part of Pakistan ? right ? We should not blame people in Blochistan who are demanding their freedome from Pakistani Panjabi establishment ?
Islam was indeed used as a fear tool by Jinnah to rose muslims sentiments and no wonder you are a very good example of them, share us from the history of Islam any evidence where Islam was used for or by nationalist movement ?
M Ali Khan
Minister (2k+ posts)
The co-author of the 12 volume "Pakistani Ki Siasi Tareekh" spoke about how myths are part of our thinking and how history has been twisted by the establishment
Pakistan Kaisay Bana 1 http://www.scribd.com/doc/164495795/Pakistan-Kaisay-Bana-1
Pakistan Kaisay Bana 2 http://www.scribd.com/doc/164514092/Pakistan-Kaisay-Bana-2
Fallacies of History http://afsana3.tripod.com/id34.html
Pakistan Kaisay Bana 1 http://www.scribd.com/doc/164495795/Pakistan-Kaisay-Bana-1
Pakistan Kaisay Bana 2 http://www.scribd.com/doc/164514092/Pakistan-Kaisay-Bana-2
Fallacies of History http://afsana3.tripod.com/id34.html
مجھے اس بات کی سمجھ نہیں آرھی کہ ھم کتنی بدقسمت قوم ھے کہ 67 آزادی کی بعد بھی ھم یہ بات ڈسکس کر رھے ھیں کہ پاکستان کیوں بنایا گیا تھا؟ جیسے کہ پاکستان کے سارے مسلے ختم ھوگئے اور یہی واحد مسلہ رہ گیا جسے حل کرنا باقی ھے۔
مجھے نہیں معلوم کہ انڈیا میں یہ ڈسکس ھوتا ھے کہ نہیں لیکن پاکستان میں اس تواتر سے ڈسکس ھونے کی صرف اور صرف ایک ھی وجہ نظر آتی ھے کہ نظریہ پاکستان میں ایک ھی لفظ انکو زھر لگتا ھے اور وہ ھے "اسلام" اگر نظریہ پاکستان میں اسلام نہ ھوتا تو اسکا تذکرہ اتنا تواتر سے نہ ھوتا۔
مجھے نہیں معلوم کہ انڈیا میں یہ ڈسکس ھوتا ھے کہ نہیں لیکن پاکستان میں اس تواتر سے ڈسکس ھونے کی صرف اور صرف ایک ھی وجہ نظر آتی ھے کہ نظریہ پاکستان میں ایک ھی لفظ انکو زھر لگتا ھے اور وہ ھے "اسلام" اگر نظریہ پاکستان میں اسلام نہ ھوتا تو اسکا تذکرہ اتنا تواتر سے نہ ھوتا۔
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Listen to this for all the answers MUST listen orya sab (8-10 minutes) and the Guy who spoke after orya sab (very comprehensive and a must listen it carries some factual as well as Logical rebuttals to all this crap)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x18qfj8_part-2-quaid-e-azam-youth-of-pakistan-guest-speaker-orya-maqbool-jan_news
<a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x18qfj8_part-2-quaid-e-azam-youth-of-pakistan-guest-speaker-orya-maqbool-jan_news" target="_blank">
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x18qfj8_part-2-quaid-e-azam-youth-of-pakistan-guest-speaker-orya-maqbool-jan_news
<a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x18qfj8_part-2-quaid-e-azam-youth-of-pakistan-guest-speaker-orya-maqbool-jan_news" target="_blank">
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have mankind understood the quran properly?
http://www.jangforum.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=q49fqk4jktgcutk3tfcg1t6fv3&topic=5206.0
http://www.jangforum.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=q49fqk4jktgcutk3tfcg1t6fv3&topic=5206.0
