Evolution, The Muslim theory

[RustamShah]

Well, it is your own thinking then, you have also mentioned about the theory of panspermia, which also exists and these days they are saying that life started on mars and was carried on a meteorite (reference link 1,reference link 2, reference link 3, reference link 4,reference link 5, reference link 6).

Yes I mentioned it, but no where this theory suggests that fully grown animals were riding on meteors or asteroids !.

Well, as I told you earlier that your knowledge even in the field of science (i.e. biology) is also very weak. Don't you know about how viruses go for crystallization and becomes dormant as a non living totally, no breathing and no nutrition ? Also, even if a multicellular organism is frozen (as the temperatures in outer space are well below freezing) then it can regain life once the ice has melted. We have a very good historical account of people who get buried alive in snow avalanches and then they are recovered alive. Also, the impact of friction on a body travelling through the earths atmosphere depends on factors like its speed while entering the atmosphere, the density of air at that time and above all the shape of the body. A body can safely land without getting too hot by friction of air if its aerodynamics are similar to that of a parachute or umbrella. Though it will take it long to land on the surface of earth, but it will definitely land without getting too hot. Also, it is believed that at the time when life started on earth, the earth's atmosphere was not as dense as it is today and carried much less oxygen. That defines that the density of the atmosphere was not high, therefore it would have provided much less resistance (friction) to the body entering and passing through it.

I don't know what should I say to you ? are you joking here ? really ? if this is the level of your understand then I am sure a 8 grade child may know more then what you know !! You are suggesting that these animals were frozen in space for billions of years and we are not talking about some viruses, but fully grown animals.. but wait, lets talk about viruses as well, you are making a lot of claims lately, please provide any evidences that a virus came down from space ? This is what you see when too much of blind faith effect your mind ! And less density mean slow speed ?? are you kidding me ? it would increase the speed of the falling body greatly because it will face less friction ! less oxygen or thin atmosphere does not automaticaly means less Gravity as well ! since when atmosphere or its gasses had a direct link with Gravity ? I gues you really love to waste time or your readers ! or was that a joke ? I thought you could do much better then this ! Who is talking about getting too hot, its a different problem, less density means, more speed, more powerful impact then normal and if normal impact would create one billion pieces, the faster perhaps create 10 billions pieces, you can dig your entire life,but never find any life which you were trying to bring down on these asteroids ! Come on man, what is wrong with you ?

See, you started to have your tables turning now. First I think all the scientists should come at one conclusion... the things like "MAY" and "Might" should be eradicated completely. Unless so, it cannot be compared with the religious beliefs for any explanations, because religion does not go about the words "May, MIGHT or QUITE POSSIBLE", it should be "DEFINITE" for any religious comparisons.

Nonsense ! I have changed nothing, I thought you were serious, but now after last masterpiece, I am convinced you were delibertly wasting our time, go and read something and check before you write something here

The size of foreign bodies can range upto any size, since there are records of asteroids landing on earth which created craters as big as 10 KM in diameter (e.g. the Chixclub crater ) so you can not really say that the size of such foreign objects on earth is always as small as you might think. It can be humongous as to provide enough space to many thousand animals and plants on it.

Yes but since when they were travelling slowly when they enter the Earth atmosphere ? You are the one who is making these lofty claims, and you need to show this effect to us as well, where are the evidences ?

Now, as I said in my earlier posts that your scientific as well as religious knowledge and understanding is quite premature. First, go through Quran and you will come to know that nothing is difficult for Allah (SWT). If the whole universe was created out of nothing at all, then why you find it difficult to comprehend that Allah (SWT) is Almighty and have powers over all things. Another thing you will come to know from the study of Quran (and from Bible and Torah as well) is that Hazrat Adam (AS) was the first man ever created. Can you provide me with any references to your belief that Hazrat Adam (AS) was sent among people who were already present on earth before him ? And it is also your naive perception that Hazrat Adam (AS) landed on earth doing nothing.

Yes Allah can do most of the things but saying Allah would do everything is not logical, because Allah would never do any stupid thing ! Humans do stupid thing ! not God, why would He ? If whole universe was created out of nothing then He could have created Adam on Earth Directly, was it impossible for Him ? No ? And rest assure I know the verses from which you have your theory that Adam was created in Paradise, but unfortunately you have them wrong, if we ever talk on this subject I would show you how you got them wrong!

Well, in case if above mentioned references are not enough for you to understand, then I can send you some more. But the thing is that I am not getting assertive that whatever I think is the truth and everything happened as I perceive it. I personally think and as I have said earlier numerous times on this thread that the theory of evolution is still evolving and does not describe many things and as everyday more and more things are discovered, the axioms are changing. Therefore, I can really not stress on my theory, nor can I confer to yours, as far as my religion is concerned, I hold it as the ultimate truth and the Final word.

Like I said, we have discussed enough on evolution, you can certainly show me some evidences for your lofty claims, but be prepare for some tough questions, because now I know you know nothing but guesses and I will show once you finish with your story !

 

[Sohail Shuja]

Yes I mentioned it, but no where this theory suggests that fully grown animals were riding on meteors or asteroids !

I think you are totally unable to grasp whatever I am saying. Look, as it was believed earlier that life started on earth but now that scientists have reached Mars, they have another breakthrough which have a stronger evidence that life started on mars and then carried on earth on a meteor/meteorite etc. I never said that this particular theory supports my idea fully, but partially yes it maintains now that life is extraterrestrial. Let them reach to Venus and neptune and I am sure they will find something astonishingly new AND THAT IS WHAT I HAD BEEN TRYING TO MAKE YOU UNDERSTAND THAT SCIENCE AND SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE IS BOUND TO CHANGE AS NEW DISCOVERIES ARE MADE, WHAT EVER IS CONSIDERED AS A PRIME TODAY, TOMORROW A NEW BREAKTHROUGH MAY MAKE IT OBSOLETE, LIKE 2 YEARS AGO, THE GENERALLY ACCEPTED BELIEF ABOUT THEORY OF EVOLUTION WAS THAT THE FIRST LIFE CELL WAS BORN ON EARTH AND NOW THIS IDEA HAS BEEN REPLACED THAT THE CELL WAS ACTUALLY BORN ON MARS... THIS LEAVES THE FORMER IDEA WHICH HAD BEEN ACCEPTED FOR YEARS, BLATANTLY UNACCEPTABLE AND RIDICULOUS. I THINK YOU HAVE MY POINT NOW THAT NOTHING IN SCIENCE IS FINAL AS A LAST WORD..... IT HAS A POTENTIAL TO CHANGE WITH NEW RESEARCH AND BREAKTHROUGHS.

I don't know what should I say to you ? are you joking here ? really ? if this is the level of your understand then I am sure a 8 grade child may know more then what you know !! You are suggesting that these animals were frozen in space for billions of years

Wait, where did I say that these animals were frozen in space for BILLIONS OF YEARS ? I just told you about one of the possibility of how these animals or their primates could have been transported to earth without damage. Go back to your own comment against which I gave you this reply your comment reads

you know they travel quite fast and normally they make a big boom when they hit the ground !! plus until they enter the Earth atmosphere they are traveling in space, where you need to feed these animals with Oxygen etc etc.

And I just gave you an example that how these animals can be traveled through space.... i.e. either in frozen state or in a state like that of a virus in a crystallized state. (which is also a capability of a living cell). Got my point ????

and we are not talking about some viruses, but fully grown animals.. but wait, lets talk about viruses as well, you are making a lot of claims lately, please provide any evidences that a virus came down from space ? This is what you see when too much of blind faith effect your mind !

Yes, too much blind faith either in religion and/or science can lead to astray. However, here is an article from the NASA scientists for your demanded proof of Virus coming down from space in crystallized form... ( I thought you should have been having this updated information with you since you are the one proposing the theory of evolution on this forum). Please allow me to quote something from the article as well over here in case if something skips your eye in your high flight

Is interplanetary transport of viruses possible?


With the silica effects established, the researchers next turned to transport. If a virus is coated in glass and gets launched away from the hot spring somehow perhaps by a geyser in the boiling water could it remove that coating and become active again? The answer is yes, particularly for bacteriophage T4.


"At least 90 percent of the activity comes back, and so basically you can coat the viruses in silica, mistreat them, and then you can uncoat them," Stedman said. "We call this the zombie experiment. We can inactivate them, and then they come back."
What's more, once the viruses are encased in silica, they are extremely resistant to desiccation, or drying. It's possible that the viruses can survive deep freezes and other harsh environments, but drying is the only environment change tested at Portland State so far. (http://www.space.com/23592-alien-life-viruses-extreme-environments.html)

And less density mean slow speed ??

You seriusly have an understanding problem or a habit to twisting things .... I never said less density means slow speed, I said LESS DENSITY MEANS LESS FRICTION, I KNOW IT MEANS MORE SPEED BUT SPEED THROUGH ATMOSPHERE IS ALSO GREATLY DETERMINED BY THE SHAPE OF THE OBJECT.... IF IT IS PARABOLIC LIKE UMBRELLA OR PARACHUTE... THE FALLING OBJECT WILL FALL LIKE A PARACHUTE FALLING FROM THE SKY WHICH MEANS LESS SPEED.... DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW ??? THEREFORE THE IMPACT WILL ALSO BE VERY LESS....

more speed, more powerful impact then normal and if normal impact would create one billion pieces, the faster perhaps create 10 billions pieces,

Well it depends on the material of the foreign object as well. There are many asteroids which landed on earth and instead of bursting into pieces, they formed Craters because their material was much harder than the earths surface where they hit it. I think you did not visit or either read or most probably did not understand the link I referred in my earlier post about the Chicxulub crater.

you can dig your entire life,but never find any life which you were trying to bring down on these asteroids ! Come on man, what is wrong with you ?

Here you sound like a 5th grade child, not a true scientific spirit..... May be my thinking is not totally true,,,, but it needs a proof for negation, can you provide any ???

Yes but since when they were travelling slowly when they enter the Earth atmosphere ? You are the one who is making these lofty claims, and you need to show this effect to us as well, where are the evidences ?

Means you never went through a single of the six articles I provided the links of in my previous post. I am not making a claim, I am just telling you that how it is possible... what happened exactly only Allah (SWT) Knows the best.

Yes Allah can do most of the things but saying Allah would do everything is not logical, because Allah would never do any stupid thing ! Humans do stupid thing ! not God, why would He ? If whole universe was created out of nothing then He could have created Adam on Earth Directly, was it impossible for Him ? No ? And rest assure I know the verses from which you have your theory that Adam was created in Paradise, but unfortunately you have them wrong, if we ever talk on this subject I would show you how you got them wrong!

(serious)

Like I said, we have discussed enough on evolution, you can certainly show me some evidences for your lofty claims, but be prepare for some tough questions, because now I know you know nothing but guesses and I will show once you finish with your story !

Ok I will answer your questions but only if they are backed up by some valid references and valid references means references made from some credible sources. I hope you understand that.

 

[RustamShah]

Wait, where did I say that these animals were frozen in space for BILLIONS OF YEARS ? I just told you about one of the possibility of how these animals or their primates could have been transported to earth without damage. Go back to your own comment against which I gave you this reply your comment reads

In order to use these animals frozen or otherwise you need these astroids, which are by the way Billions of years old, dude drop this Idea right now, its silly, you can not transport fully grown animals with astroids or with comets and you have said yourself, thse animals or their primates could have been transported to earth without damage !! even if its your "belief" does not mean its true or correct ! Need back up evidences.

And I just gave you an example that how these animals can be traveled through space.... i.e. either in frozen state or in a state like that of a virus in a crystallized state. (which is also a capability of a living cell). Got my point ????

Dude where did in the article its mentioned that some Viruses came from space or from Mars ? you seems to forget your own claims, you made this claim that animals or their promates according to your faith and believe came from other planets to Earth and it was you who suggested possible way to transporting, now they are already here on earth and you need to provide any evidences, this article no where says there is any evidence for such case, also no where in this article does it says that they have found any viruses on Mars yet ? so why are you so excited and for what reason ?

Is interplanetary transport of viruses possible?

So far no where in the world any evidence for for interplanetary transport of viruses have been found ! Even from your quoted article it says "One of the issues with any astrobiology implications is, 'Could something be transported from a meteorite, from one planet to another?' In the conditions we looked at, No. There is a loss of that activity.""

With the silica effects established, the researchers next turned to transport. If a virus is coated in glass and gets launched away from the hot spring somehow — perhaps by a geyser in the boiling water — could it remove that coating and become active again? The answer is yes, particularly for bacteriophage T4.

Could it survived millions of years of space transport is still an open question !

You seriusly have an understanding problem or a habit to twisting things .... I never said less density means slow speed, I said LESS DENSITY MEANS LESS FRICTION, I KNOW IT MEANS MORE SPEED BUT SPEED THROUGH ATMOSPHERE IS ALSO GREATLY DETERMINED BY THE SHAPE OF THE OBJECT.... IF IT IS PARABOLIC LIKE UMBRELLA OR PARACHUTE... THE FALLING OBJECT WILL FALL LIKE A PARACHUTE FALLING FROM THE SKY WHICH MEANS LESS SPEED.... DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW ??? THEREFORE THE IMPACT WILL ALSO BE VERY LESS....

Dude you were suggesting earlier that less density means less heat and some parachute affect and soft landings ... no matter which shape an object is if its coming down from space, the Gravity, Yes the GRAVITY of earth will pull it at the constant speed and if there is less density in atmosphere it will only fall without any resistance and hence get faster and even if there is LESS DENSE ATMOSPHERE it will be enough to light up any object and heats up and perhaps melt it partially or fully, if not completely destroying it ! Dude even Aircrafts which were made to travel fast specially the American X-planes which reaches the speed of Mach 5 or 7 got so hot that they had to use special material, Black Bird SR-71 skinn was specially designed so its not melt during its flight and it was flying only mach 3 or near it !! Come on man what is wrong with you ? you are keep insisting on a stupid Idea for no reason ? if you are that keen to learn then go and learn something of about Physics before writing any stupid comments on it ! Please.....

Well it depends on the material of the foreign object as well. There are many asteroids which landed on earth and instead of bursting into pieces, they formed Craters because their material was much harder than the earths surface where they hit it. I think you did not visit or either read or most probably did not understand the link I referred in my earlier post about the Chicxulub crater.

Its quite funny when you make such remarks, I can only laugh on you, I don't like it, but you made me laugh once again. If a Meteor survived or created the Crater, does it mean it has potential to deliver your fully grown animals or viruses ? Have you ever ponder what would be the impact if a large meteor hit the surface of the earth ? it will wiped out perhaps the life from earth, rather bring it ? Dinosaurs were wiped out by a meteor strike some 65 millions years, that what your meteor usualy do, though I already said, its quite possible, earlier in our history comets may have brought BUILDING BLOCKS of life, like Amino Acids from space, but its a realtively new theory and needs a lot of work to be done on it, no where does people in scientific community accepts as a main theory.

Ok I will answer your questions but only if they are backed up by some valid references and valid references means references made from some credible sources. I hope you understand that.

Ofcourse, they will be properly referenced from Quran and from Hadith ..

 

[Sohail Shuja]

In order to use these animals frozen or otherwise you need these astroids, which are by the way Billions of years old, dude drop this Idea right now, its silly, you can not transport fully grown animals with astroids or with comets and you have said yourself, thse animals or their primates could have been transported to earth without damage !! even if its your "belief" does not mean its true or correct ! Need back up evidences.

Well it is just not impossible as well because you believe it. Any counter evidence ?

Dude where did in the article its mentioned that some Viruses came from space or from Mars ? you seems to forget your own claims, you made this claim that animals or their promates according to your faith and believe came from other planets to Earth and it was you who suggested possible way to transporting, now they are already here on earth and you need to provide any evidences, this article no where says there is any evidence for such case, also no where in this article does it says that they have found any viruses on Mars yet ? so why are you so excited and for what reason ?

I already posted the links of those articles previous to my earlier reply but it seems that you are mumbling without even looking at them. Now let me quote something from that article for the readers:

Life on Earth may have started millions of miles away on Mars, according to scientists.
An element believed to be crucial to the origin of life would only have been available on the surface of the Red Planet.
These "seeds" of life probably arrived on Earth in meteorites blasted off Mars by impacts or volcanic eruptions, Geochemist Professor Steven Benner claims.
Prof Benner, from The Westheimer Institute for Science and Technology in the US, said: "The evidence seems to be building that we are actually all Martians; that life started on Mars and came to Earth on a rock......


Prof Benner said the element molybdenum was thought to be a catalyst that helped organic molecules develop into the first living things.
"This form of molybdenum couldn't have been available on Earth at the time life first began, because three billion years ago the surface of the Earth had very little oxygen, but Mars did.
"It's yet another piece of evidence which makes it more likely life came to Earth on a Martian meteorite, rather than starting on this planet."
He added: "Analysis of a Martian meteorite recently showed that there was boron on Mars; we now believe that the oxidised form of molybdenum was there too."
Another reason why life would have struggled to start on early Earth was that it was likely to have been covered by water, said Prof Benner.
(Reference: http://news.sky.com/story/1134431/life-on-earth-started-on-mars-say-scientists)

And I provided 5 more links to this information in my previous comments. I know you never read them that is why you are mumbling like a moron. Now for any counter argument that this theory does not hold true, I will like to see some backup evidence as well rather than your personal opinion. Got it ?

So far no where in the world any evidence for for interplanetary transport of viruses have been found ! Even from your quoted article it says "One of the issues with any astrobiology implications is, 'Could something be transported from a meteorite, from one planet to another?' In the conditions we looked at, No. There is a loss of that activity.""

Did you deliberately miss the line before this para i.e. "Stedman's team is still puzzling out." ?? Now would you care tell me what do you understand by this sentence ? also in the line you quoted they say "In the conditions we looked at" means they have not looked at them in all the other possible conditions. Therefore the research is still going on and has not concluded. If you cannot make this out by reading a simple article, I have now developed serious doubts of your understanding of any technical paper on the subject.

Could it survived millions of years of space transport is still an open question

if you tend to digress from this proposition, then provide evidence.

Dude you were suggesting earlier that less density means less heat and some parachute affect and soft landings ... no matter which shape an object is if its coming down from space, the Gravity, Yes the GRAVITY of earth will pull it at the constant speed and if there is less density in atmosphere it will only fall without any resistance and hence get faster and even if there is LESS DENSE ATMOSPHERE it will be enough to light up any object and heats up and perhaps melt it partially or fully, if not completely destroying it ! Dude even Aircrafts which were made to travel fast specially the American X-planes which reaches the speed of Mach 5 or 7 got so hot that they had to use special material, Black Bird SR-71 skinn was specially designed so its not melt during its flight and it was flying only mach 3 or near it !! Come on man what is wrong with you ? you are keep insisting on a stupid Idea for no reason ? if you are that keen to learn then go and learn something of about Physics before writing any stupid comments on it ! Please.....

Stop beating around the bush. just simple and straight: tell me have you seen a paratrooper in your life coming down from sky with a parachute ? does he get burned by friction of air or either hit the ground so hard to get perished into pieces ? likewise if the vehicle (meteorite etc) carrying those animals or plants is shaped like a parachute or umbrella is going to land on earth safely enough to keep those living things alive. Now please don't go out looking for a parachute attached with a meteorite. If you don't understand my point still then show this to your physics professor, he will explain it to you. seems rather too hard for you to understand

Its quite funny when you make such remarks, I can only laugh on you, I don't like it, but you made me laugh once again. If a Meteor survived or created the Crater, does it mean it has potential to deliver your fully grown animals or viruses ? Have you ever ponder what would be the impact if a large meteor hit the surface of the earth ? it will wiped out perhaps the life from earth, rather bring it ? Dinosaurs were wiped out by a meteor strike some 65 millions years, that what your meteor usualy do, though I already said, its quite possible, earlier in our history comets may have brought BUILDING BLOCKS of life, like Amino Acids from space, but its a realtively new theory and needs a lot of work to be done on it, no where does people in scientific community accepts as a main theory.

You either keep laughing and negating the claims of life being extra terrestrial then you are no different than a mullah ho right away rejects your whole theory of evolution with an equivalent laughter. Otherwise if you really have any supporting evidence for your claims then send it to Professor Steven Benner, he is currently working on this. I hope you will get a good reply from him.

 

[RustamShah]

Stop beating around the bush. just simple and straight: tell me have you seen a paratrooper in your life coming down from sky with a parachute ? does he get burned by friction of air or either hit the ground so hard to get perished into pieces ? likewise if the vehicle (meteorite etc) carrying those animals or plants is shaped like a parachute or umbrella is going to land on earth safely enough to keep those living things alive. Now please don't go out looking for a parachute attached with a meteorite. If you don't understand my point still then show this to your physics professor, he will explain it to you. seems rather too hard for you to understand

Thankfully there is no Tax on day dreaming, I will let you dream about your theories, who cares, its free world and you have right to say what ever you like ... just make sure never go on a scientific forum with this kind of silly stories, they will laugh on you and its a sincere advice ! But I am not gonna waste my time with you any more on this issue, have fun !

 

[Sohail Shuja]

Thankfully there is no Tax on day dreaming, I will let you dream about your theories, who cares, its free world and you have right to say what ever you like ... just make sure never go on a scientific forum with this kind of silly stories, they will laugh on you and its a sincere advice ! But I am not gonna waste my time with you any more on this issue, have fun !

Well my final thoughts on this had been summarized by a theologian centuries ago like :

No single thing abides; but all things flow.
Fragment to fragment clings--the things thus grow
Until we know and name them. By degrees
They melt, and are no more the things we know.

So, things are growing day by day as human knowledge and discoveries are increasing. Lets wait and see what is the final picture coming out of this theory of evolution.... till then, keep looking for the truth and most importantly, work for it if you are really up for it.

Cheers !

 

[RustamShah]

Well my final thoughts on this had been summarized by a theologian centuries ago like :

No single thing abides; but all things flow.
Fragment to fragment clings--the things thus grow
Until we know and name them. By degrees
They melt, and are no more the things we know.

So, things are growing day by day as human knowledge and discoveries are increasing. Lets wait and see what is the final picture coming out of this theory of evolution.... till then, keep looking for the truth and most importantly, work for it if you are really up for it.

Cheers !

'So, too, the creeds of man: the one prevails
Until the other comes; and this one fails
When that one triumphs; ay, the lonesome world
Will always want the latest fairy tales.'

Cheers !!

 

[mehwish_ali]

آج پھر یہ آرٹیکل نظروں سے ٹکرا گیا جہاں ملا حضرات پھر دعوے کر رہے ہیں کہ :۔

۔1۔ آدم علیہ السلام کا قد 60 فٹ لمبا تھا۔

۔2۔ پھر قد آہستہ آہستہ چھوٹے ہونے لگے اور یہ سلسلہ امت محمدی پر آ کر رک گیا۔ یعنی 1400 سال پہلے جو لوگ تھے، وہ چھوٹے تھے عیسی علیہ السلام کے دور کے لوگوں سے جو کہ 2000 سال قبل آئے تھے،۔۔۔۔

۔3۔ اسلام نے جو بتلایا ہے، اس پر آنکھیں بند کر کے ایمان لاؤ اور ہرگز شک نہ کرو۔

لنک یہ ہے

http://islamqa.info/ur/20612

یہ ایک بہت معتبر مانے جانے والا سائیٹ ہے۔

یہ بالکل ایسا ہی جیسا کہ ملا حضرات نے فتوی دیا تھا کہ سورج زمین کے گرد گھومتا ہے اور سائنس کی گواہی آنے کے بعد بھی اسے قبول کرنے کے لیے تیار نہ تھا۔

آج ہمارے پاس پچھلے 2000 سال پرانے درجنوں ڈھانچے ہیں اور کہیں سے یہ بات ثابت نہیں ہوتی کہ انکے قد کاٹھ آجکے انسانوں سے زیادہ تھے۔

اس 2 ہزار سال کو تو چھوڑیں، ہمارے پاس ماڈرن انسان کے 50 ہزار تا 70 ہزار سال پرانے جتنے ڈھانچے ہیں، ان میں بھی انسان کا قد کاٹھ آجکے انسانوں کے برابر ہی ہے۔


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[RustamShah]

@ Mehwish

I know these people are not living in 2014, rather they still belongs to the cult of stone ages. When these idiots start dialogues with Talibani Pigs, what else you expect from them ? Jahalat ki intihaa hai ye