xpakistani
Voter (50+ posts)
not with this leadership including imran khan
Can Pakistan survive without US aid? BY MURTAZA HAIDER
- Thread starter AsifAmeer
- Start date
Thats a great idea! Now all we have to do is PRODUCE a TEACHER like the Prophet SAW from within our culture!
Offended? So was I reading your statement. MAT DO UN HASTIYON KI MISAAL. We dont even deserve to learn from them!
PkRevolution
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
love you pak
MPA (400+ posts)
by God i would love to die rather than living on aid
And that my friend is called "Human dignity"!
Someone here asked me if Pakistan CAN or CANT survive without aid. I said what u say - Pakistan SHOULDNT.
Someone here asked me if Pakistan CAN or CANT survive without aid. I said what u say - Pakistan SHOULDNT.
love you pak
MPA (400+ posts)
yessss...
we only need a true leader, i read some where during last 4 year 85 billion rupees had been looted by politicians. just now think bit logically, if that staggering amount had been invested in agriculture and industry what would be the GDP of country???? secondly, bro all the us aid is consumed by army, and politicians, does even a single cent go in the pocket of common man... no way. finally, we just needed a honest leadership not aid
A.Ali.T
Minister (2k+ posts)
gazoomartian
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
There is no doubt that in case of natural disasters, the US is beats every body in deploying help. The fact that only 37 cents for every dollar allocated reaches it's intended destination, but that's a different story.
Bit also is the fact that US sends troops and dollar with strings attached as we saw in case of Kashmir quake in 2005. They found a wonderful opportunity to easily deploy CIA operatives disguised as relief workers as reported in the book written by an American!!!
Those agents/operatives have been the major source or destruction of Pakistan, training of suicide bombers, explosion on streets. We had been duped into receiving them as relief workers. Of course Maj Gen Aslam had no idea at the time that he was congratulating the agents who came with death warrant for the Pakistanis.
Its really amazing that when an even is in your favor, you take credit for it and when its against you, you immediately call it a conspiracy theory. Shameful thing is that you call 911 also a conspiracy when somebody says it was all planned by the CIA/Mossad/Bush.
[email protected]
MPA (400+ posts)
there is another qustion:- Can Pakistan survive without ALLAH aid? BY MUHAMMED(PBUH)
If you cant read the whole article, just read the lines in bold
Can Pakistan survive without US aid? BY MURTAZA HAIDER
Several policy-makers, politicians, and development professionals in the west believe that the economic survival of Pakistan rests on handouts from the United States. Often American legislators ridicule Pakistan for willingly accepting American dollars in charity, but not delivering on American demands in return.
The Westerners are not alone in believing that Pakistans survival rests on handouts from the US. While speaking on Canadian TV earlier this week, Raheel Raza, a Canadian of Pakistani origin, argued the same. Ever since the inception of Pakistan the United States has given Pakistan aid without which it cannot survive, said Ms. Raza.
The US economic and military assistance to Pakistan indeed has a long history stretched over decades during which several American governments have poured billions of dollars into Pakistan. The question, however, is to determine first why Americans aided Pakistan and second what was the money intended for. And even more importantly, one should determine if indeed Pakistans economic survival rests on American aid.
The British newspaper Guardian maintains an active database documenting six decades of American aid to Pakistan. The data is compiled by Wren Elhai of the Center for Global Development in Washington, DC. The database reveals that since 1948 the US assistance to Pakistan has largely been for civilian purposes. Of the $61.7 billion in total assistance (in constant 2009 dollars) provided to Pakistan between 1948 and 2010, $40.4 billion were provided for economic assistance and $21.3 billion in military assistance. The economic assistance to Pakistan peaked in the early 60s when in excess of $2 billion annually were provided to Pakistan.
Title: US Aid to Pakistan, 1948-2010, (millions, constant 2009 US$)
Since 1982, the United States has provided $17 billion in military assistance compared to $13.5 billion in economic assistance. This has largely been a result of covert and overt American military operations in Afghanistan that began in late 70s. And while there has been a slowdown in economic and military assistance between 1992 and 2001, the US revived its economic and military assistance to Pakistan after 9/11. In fact, since 2002 the US military assistance to Pakistan at $13billion dollars is two-times the economic assistance it provided to Pakistan. The dramatic increase in military assistance to Pakistan in the recent past has contributed to the weakening of democratic and civilian institutions in Pakistan, while it has helped strengthen militarys grip on the socio-political spheres in Pakistan.
One cannot consider military assistance as a favour to Pakistanis. In fact, the US military assistance has been instrumental in reinforcing Pakistani armed forces against the civilian governments. The American military and economic assistance offered to General Zia in early 80s and later to General Musharraf since 2002 are examples of how American funds have strengthened military dictators against civilian setups in Pakistan. Notice in the above graph how the US assistance has largely been absent in the 1990s when parliamentary democracy prevailed in Pakistan.
In 2010, the US economic assistance to Pakistan equalled $1.8 billion. While the amount is indeed large, however on a per capita basis, this translates into a mere $10.3 for the 180-million Pakistanis. Should we believe that Pakistans survival has rested on a mere $10.3 per person in civilian assistance from the United States?
Some fact-checking is indeed in order. Pakistan is a $175 billion economy. Since 2002, the US has provided on average $825 million annually in economic assistance to Pakistan. On the other hand, Pakistani expatriates have remitted on average $1 billion each month in 2011, making remittances an order of magnitude higher than what the US has been providing to Pakistan. I would argue that Pakistans economy owes much more to what the expatriates contribute than what comes in charity from the United States.
While I remain grateful to American taxpayers who have contributed billions of dollars to Pakistan, for instance, American help with the rescue and relief efforts after the floods in 2011 is indeed commendable, I must also point out that the American wars in the region have played havoc with Pakistans economic and social infrastructure. According to the Government of Pakistan, the direct and indirect costs from Natos war in Afghanistan, which began on October 07, 2001, has reached over $68 billion. These economic losses are an order of magnitude higher than what the US has offered in economic and military assistance to Pakistan. And who to account for the 36,000-plus Pakistanis who have perished as a result of the Nato war efforts in the region. A fair compensation would require the US to engage the United Nations to verify Pakistans claims and then reimburse Pakistan in full for proven claims.
* The 2010-11 figures are estimated from 8 months of data.
The nature of development aid business is such that large sums of donated money in fact return to the donor country in the form of contractual payments to consultants and manufacturers. I recall listening to the former World Bank president James Wolfensohn in 2004 at the 16th Annual Bank Conference on Development Economics in Washington DC where he offered his candid views about how development aid was misspent by donors. In 2003-04 development aid was estimated at $58 billion of which $14 billion were pocketed by the consultants alone.
The billions of dollars in US military assistance to Pakistan are no different which in fact help sustain the defense economy in the US. Pakistan ends up buying US-made weapons and fighter jets from the very military assistance it receives from the US, and money it borrows from international lenders.
I also recall listening to Hans von Sponeck, the former head of UN operations in Iraq who resigned in February 2000 to protest against UN sanctions. He explained in an interview in Islamabad how aid agencies prefer spending aid money on brick and mortar, and not on developing human capital. Furthermore, aid funds are often abused because of cost overruns. Consider the mismanaged construction of the waste water treatment plant in Fallujah, Iraq. An audit by the US Special Inspector General revealed that the plant was to be built for $35 million to serve a population of 100,000. Years later, the partially built plant served only 38,400 people after American contractors had spent over $108 million. Latest estimates suggest that the waste treatment plant would consume another $87 million before it will be completed in 2014.
In the proposed budget for 2013, the Obama administration has set aside $2.4 billion in spending related to Pakistan. $800 million out of the $2.4 billion are earmarked for counter intelligence in KP and Fata and for other security operations. $200 million have been earmarked for discretionary spending by the US diplomatic missions in Pakistan. While it appears that huge sums of money will again flow to Pakistan, the reality is that often the planned funds never reach Pakistan. Consider the
Kerry-Lugar-Berman bill (The Enhanced Partnership with Pakistan Act, 2009) that set aside a total of $7.5 billion in assistance to Pakistan spread over five years. The disbursement under the bill was to begin in 2010. However, the funds have not yet been appropriated. At the same time, the US legislators continue to chastise Pakistan for taking US funds (hitherto not provided) but not delivering in return!
Earlier this week, Pakistans parliament unanimously passed a resolution condemning the US Congress for conducting hearings about the insurgency in Balochistan. The resolution stated: the house rigorously condemns and does not accept the hearing by the US congress and considers any such attempt an open intervention in states sovereignty and its internal affairs. Parliamentarians of all political complexions, who were deeply incensed by the US intervention in Pakistans domestic affairs, set aside their differences in passing the resolution. I believe that Pakistans Parliament should now pass another resolution stating that it will not receive any additional charity from the United States. Knowing that there have always been strings attached to the funds that came from the US, the Parliamentarians should therefore consider US economic and military assistance to be a violation of Pakistans sovereignty.
Refusing aid and other assistance is a prerequisite for Pakistans economic recovery. The billions of dollars in aid have distorted markets in Pakistan and have subsidised the civil and military elite. Pakistans foremost economists, such as S. Akbar Zaidi and others at the Planning Commission in Islamabad, have argued for a secession of aid as a precondition for restructuring Pakistans economy to make it self-sufficient over time.
Pakistans elite and middle class have to rise to the occasion to help resuscitate the faltering economy. Pakistanis have to pay taxes so that their government can refuse aid from others. Unless Pakistanis demonstrate the willingness to carry their own weight by paying taxes, there is no hope of an honourable existence for Pakistan in the community of nations.
Murtaza Haider, Ph.D. is the Associate Dean of research and graduate programs at the Ted Rogers School of Management at Ryerson University in Toronto. He can be reached by email at [email protected]
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Thanks for sharing this dear Asif Ameer, what is your answer to this question and why if you do not mind me asking? My answer is pakistan can survive all by itself but my reason for this answer is based upon the quran which we can discuss in detail if need be.
Khul k jawab doun? lol.. Have you read my article http://tinyurl.com/pakgoldstandard ?
I made a case that Pakistan should withdraw from the IMF charter. Dump the Dollar reserves, buy bullion. Announce a Gold backing for International trade balance, AND THEN DEFAULT on all external and a calculated % of internal debt according to the deflated gdp.
Pakistaniyon ko andaza nahi hai 3 saal mein in logoun ka kya haal ho ga. Greece ki haalat dekh rahay ho? Here, lemme lay it out what u will see in THIS VERY ORDER
1. Shortage of Imports (petrol, imported medicines, etc)
2. Shortages of food
3. Govt stopping pension funds for its employees.
4. Pakistan Defaults.
5. Partial shut down of these PSE (public state enterprises, PIA, wapda...)
6. Acceleration of inflation
7. boom in corruption
8. ROITS.
9. Mass migration.
Mere bhai, this hasnt happened the 1st time in history. Read this book.. WHEN MONEY DIES. Was written in 1975 covering the collapse of Weimar Republic. That list I gave u, is from that book...
I made a case that Pakistan should withdraw from the IMF charter. Dump the Dollar reserves, buy bullion. Announce a Gold backing for International trade balance, AND THEN DEFAULT on all external and a calculated % of internal debt according to the deflated gdp.
Pakistaniyon ko andaza nahi hai 3 saal mein in logoun ka kya haal ho ga. Greece ki haalat dekh rahay ho? Here, lemme lay it out what u will see in THIS VERY ORDER
1. Shortage of Imports (petrol, imported medicines, etc)
2. Shortages of food
3. Govt stopping pension funds for its employees.
4. Pakistan Defaults.
5. Partial shut down of these PSE (public state enterprises, PIA, wapda...)
6. Acceleration of inflation
7. boom in corruption
8. ROITS.
9. Mass migration.
Mere bhai, this hasnt happened the 1st time in history. Read this book.. WHEN MONEY DIES. Was written in 1975 covering the collapse of Weimar Republic. That list I gave u, is from that book...
Why do you have to take God and His Prophet SAW's name in vain?
Avoid that. Its offensive. Creator and the Bearer of all Wisdom, yet we POINTLESSLY drag the Noble Ones in our argument.
Avoid that. thanks.
Avoid that. Its offensive. Creator and the Bearer of all Wisdom, yet we POINTLESSLY drag the Noble Ones in our argument.
Avoid that. thanks.
Their standards of QA are pathetic. On the other side, our call centre agents have the best of accents. The only reason business started flowing towards india was 9/11.0
Wouldn't say anything, bhai aapki bhi naukri ka sawal hai na. But come on mate, what US wanted or not is something many amongst us clearly know since 80s. And by the by, Russia was the first one to reach out after Earthquakes and worked way and I mean way more than any other country in this regard. Refute it all you want to but I personally know it (well, insan hoon na kuch na kuch to pata hota hee hai).
Asif, this post has turned into a war zone mate :). This reply made me quote you as I know we certainly will have differences upon the interpretation of religion yet yeh jawab, yaar tum musalman ho waqai. Don't know why people obsessively do it. Good one.
I couldn't take a look at the IMF paper too because of massive power outages and my desktop doesn't run when there is no power (bigsmile).
About this article, it was a very good one, I want everyone to take a look at the graph keenly as the writer must be bound by some issues due to his job etc. so he couldn't clearly point out the pattern present in that graph. From Ayyub to Musharraf all were here for a reason and to carry out what the masters wanted them to for the upcoming events. Also, bubbles are clearly visible in this pattern which many dictators and their supporters use to justify their dirty rules. What we fail to understand is that each time a spike was created in this aid, it was meant for us to serve them more and to buy more from them (also pointed out in the article). We can survive without US AID certainly but for that, we will need to do exactly as we had discussed in your "gold standard" thread. I am planning to certainly join the gathering for al Ilm trust on this saturday and meet Orya Maqbool Jaan as this organization might take some concrete steps in this direction. The issue is to educate people than to demand it all from governments as they wouldn't care less. When every other person knows about these things, well, rationally; Then only would we be able to demand anything from the governments too. That is why it has clearly been said by Allah ke jese awam vese hukumran. When anyone amongst us doesn't want to change the system and doesn't want to work for it but always dream for a bloody revolution (when he sleeps) which will change things upside down, they fail to understand that it will only bring about more hooligans which would be more powerful as their ethical boundaries will not be limited by any law but only the ones they implement.
Will discuss later, have some more points in mind yet need to go for an important errand. Thank you.
Thank you dear Asif Ameer, I think not only pakistanis but muslim world as a whole and nonmuslim world as a whole needs to wake up or the masses all over will be crushed by the set up after the ww ii. International community needs a new set up convention to replace the last one. Humanity must learn to work together rather than complete against each other. It is negative competition based convention which in turn is based upon survival of the fittest ie animal kingdom theory rather than positive competition based upon human moral values for the good of humanity as whole.
Even if we have gold standard, it is still matter of gold going to people who are better at competing against others. So a time will come when gold too will end up with strong people. So gold is not the proper solution either though it can run for longer but only if use and abuse could be avoided which you cannot in a negative competition.
This is why the quranic based system is absolutely necessary but people are not interested in it because they do not know what it is thanks to our kings and their mullahs and their followers even today.
There is no doubt that conventions and treaties and agreements are necessary and that they must be respected but the quran demands that they have to be proper and for the good of humanity otherwise they are sham agreements ie one party is trying to cheat other/s or trying to take undue advantage of others.
Therefore the quran is the only proper way out for all our troubles.
I think you should study the quran in depth and see where it lead people ie I find it interesting because I see quran really talking sense if mullahs let it speak for itself.
Thanks and all the best.
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...ya-Maqbool-Jan&p=711922&viewfull=1#post711922
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Man o man there are people today that can fix it, but people likes of yours will not allow those to be in the lead because than those who find excuses and like status quoe will loose their uncalled for perks and drinking and other nasty stuff.
I f u donot know any one that i am talking about, let me know and I will gladly give you many names, that is if u still cannot figure out who they are, they are in Pakistan and allover the World.
Let me give us one name, the one in U.S who can fix this World in a nice and quick way
RON PAUL
(jhanda)
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QaiserMirza
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
