Blaming ISI for someones incompetence

Wadaich

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Blaming ISI for someone’s incompetence

67b8789e787e048bcdc9569fd9331077.jpg

A few months ago the distinguished United States think tank; the Carnegie Endowment has published a very well researched report regarding the current situation in Afghanistan. The report entitled, “The Afghanistan at the Breaking Point was written by a famous scholar of the think tank, Gilles Dorronsoro. The crux of the report is that coalition forces under United States are unlikely to win in Afghanistan. The report says, “The current strategy of defeating the Taliban militarily is unrealistic. The coalition is on the defensive across much of Afghanistan and, with current troop levels, can at most only contain the insurgency. On present course, the coalition is swiftly heading toward an impasse.”

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The think tank views that, US military commanders in Afghanistan are indeed misperceiving the situation there. These military commanders portray to the Obama administration as if they are gaining against the Taliban by pursuing unrealistic objectives. Contrarily, the fact is that, these coalition forces, “cannot defeat the Taliban militarily.” The maximum they can do is to fleetingly contain their gains in some of the areas they have under their occupation. Taliban on the other hand are really gaining day by day. The think tank thus advises the Obama administration to go for a political solution; ceasefire and better negotiate with the Taliban insurgents “rather than be boxed into dead-end military logic.” The rapidly deteriorating security situation in Afghanistan warrants a quick action as, every passing day strengthens the position of the Taliban viz-a-viz the coalition forces. Pakistan has long been emphasizing US and NATO to realistically pursue a political solution, rather a military one. That indeed could have given US and its coalition partners an honourable exit from Afghanistan.

Unfortunately, US military commanders in Afghanistan consider military solution as the only way out to tackle the Afghan imbroglio. After ten years of the military engagement, US military commanders are perhaps sceptical that, if they now resort to a political solution, the US people back home would question them, as why did they made so much military expenditures over these long years, causing considerable debit to the US treasury. Indeed U.S has spent billions of dollars to sustain its forces in Afghanistan. Over ten years of occupation, U.S has developed many secure bases for its own forces stationed in Afghanistan. Had this money been spent on the rehabilitation and collective welfare of Afghan people, rather strengthening its military bases and security of its own men and material, US forces could have earn respect for themselves in the eyes of Afghan masses with a security guaranteed for them.

Now once the writing on the wall is absolutely clear, and U.S and NATO forces have a strong feeling that they cannot win the war against Taliban, they have started looking left and right. Finding it almost impossible to have a military victory, they are in search of a scapegoat to apportion the blame. In the same milieu, Chairman Joint Chief of US Forces, Admiral Mike Mullen, during a recent statement in Pakistan accused Pakistani spying agency of its alleged relationship with the Haqqani Network in North Waziristan Agency. The top US military officer said that, “It is fairly well known that ISI had a relationship with the Haqqani network and addressing the Haqqani network from my perspective is critical to the solution set in Afghanistan. … That’s at the core — it’s not the only thing — but that’s at the core that I think is the most difficult part of the relationship.”

Astoundingly, US military commanders have gone off balance and are behaving irrationally while making such accusations. Global analysts including its own think tanks questions US as; who is actually running the Afghan affairs? Is it not true that, 150,000 NATO and US troops are occupying Afghanistan since 2001. Is it not true that US enjoy an absolute power in Afghanistan? Besides, through the use of its latest surveillance equipment and weaponry, US forces can see and engage even a very small object on ground and then can hit that hard. Its forces are deployed all around including Pak-Afghan border. If at all Haqqani people are operating in Afghan territory, they should be using some ground route, which should have been under US heavy surveillance. Why cannot US stop them from doing this all with its huge military forces? Surely Haqqani men would not be an unseen creature, crossing over to another heavily guarded country without having been seen. Otherwise, stopping the infiltration from one agency (North Waziristan) should not cost them too much, if it is affecting their military gains too seriously. US must realize that this globalized world has gone wise enough and do not believe in such unsubstantiated accusations in the presence of latest information and awareness.

Another question boggling the mind of global acumen, has US and NATO forces defeated all other Taliban and warlords in Afghanistan, the country they are in physical occupation since last ten years, if one group (Haqqani) is supported by Pakistan. Or else Haqqani is the only one operating in Afghanistan against US and NATO forces. If Haqqani, a non-state actor, with only few hundred people is really defeating the Coalition forces and Afghan National Army and Police in Afghanistan, then he deserves to rule that lawless state and US, NATO and Karazai must surrendered to him. Let us accept the fact that, over the years, US and NATO coalition could do nothing against Afghan Taliban, who indeed resides inside that country. Rather subduing them, they become powerful and more popular among the Afghan masses over the years. They are using the weapons and equipment as being held by coalition forces. In most of the areas, coalition forces are living with the tacit approval of the Taliban, who are being paid in return.

Pakistan’s Military hierarchy rejected these accusations and feels that, it is indeed the, “negative propaganda of Pakistan not doing enough”. ISI had linkages with all Afghan factions including Hamid Karazai and Northern Alliance besides Haqqani during 1980s, against Soviet invasion in Afghanistan. Now, Pakistan and its premier intelligence agency; ISI wish a peaceful Afghanistan in its neighbourhood. It is a negative propaganda against the security forces and its spying agency. Indeed, this is being done to defame the agency as it wants that, Afghanistan should be free from foreign occupation and its people must be allowed to decide their future as per UN charter.

Pakistan cannot wish for Afghanistan anything which it does not wish for itself. It only wants peace and stability in its brotherly Muslim country. US together with its South Asian partner desire to sow the seed of hate between Pakistan and Afghan people. It is indeed a unrewarding country. Should not it be obliged to Pakistan for supporting its cause in 1980s and now as a front line state against terrorism? Therefore, US military officials should be realistic, appreciative of Pakistan and thus must stop this unfounded propaganda against Pakistan, just to hide their incompetence.

Dr Raja Muhammad Khan
—The writer is International Relations analyst.
http://pakobserver.net/detailnews.asp?id=88465
 
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az.ay

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Linking ISI with terrorism - A grave mistake

Pakistan-ISI-India.jpg


Amid other blunders, the US military classified Pakistans premium spy agency as a terrorist support entity in 2007 and used association with it as a justification to detain prisoners in Guantanamo Bay, according to leaked documents published on Sunday that are sure to further alienate Pakistan, the frontline ally in the war on terror.

One document, given to The New York Times, says detainees who allegedly associated with the Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate may have provided support to al-Qaeda or the Taliban, or engaged in hostilities against US or Coalition forces.

The ISI, along with al-Qaeda, Hamas and Hezbollah and Iranian intelligence, are among 32 groups on the list of associated forces, which also includes Egypts Islamic Jihad, headed by al-Qaeda deputy Ayman al-Zawahiri.

The document defines an associate force as militant forces and organisations with which al-Qaeda, the al-Qaeda network, or the Taliban has an established working, supportive, or beneficiary relationship for the achievement of common goals.

Earlier, the US Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Admiral Mike Mullen had said, ISI has a long standing relationship with extremist networks.
The document in question, JTF-GTMO Matrix of Threat Indicators for Enemy Combatants, likely dates from 2007 according to its classification code, and is part of a trove of 759 files on detainees held in Guantanamo Bay, the US military prison in Cuba.

However, the timing of documents puts a big question mark on its authenticity in the first place.

The secret documents were obtained by WikiLeaks and date from between 2002 and 2009, but they were made available to The New York Times from a separate source, the paper said.

They reveal that most of the 172 remaining prisoners have been rated as a high risk of posing a threat to the United States and its allies if released without adequate rehabilitation and supervision, the newspaper said.
The documents also show about a third of the 600 detainees already sent to other countries were also designated high risk before they were freed or passed to the custody of other governments, the Times said in its report late on Sunday.

The dossiers, prepared under the Bush administration, also show the seat-of-the-pants intelligence gathering in war zones that led to the incarcerations of innocent men for years in cases of mistaken identity or simple misfortune, the Times said.

The documents are largely silent about the use of the harsh interrogation tactics at Guantanamo that drew global condemnation, the newspaper reported.

The Times also said an Obama administration task force set up in January 2009 had reviewed the assessments and, in some cases, come to different conclusions. Thus... the documents published by The Times may not represent the governments current views of detainees at Guantanamo.
WikiLeaks previously released classified Pentagon reports on the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and 250,000 State Department cables. Bradley Manning, a 23-year-old US soldier accused of leaking secret documents to WikiLeaks has been detained since May of last year.

The Guardian newspaper has obtained papers that reveal that the US authorities instructed interrogators at Guantanamo Bay to treat those connected with the ISI alongside terrorists associated with organisations such as al-Qaeda, Hamas and Hezbollah.

The revelations are bound to strain US-Pakistan relations further, although the papers date back to 2007.

Washington Post reported on Monday citing documents accessed by WikiLeaks that some senior al-Qaeda leaders were in Karachi on Sep 11, 2001 and most returned to Afghanistan within a day.

The media report said that core al-Qaeda leaders were in Karachi. While one of them was recovering at a hospital from a tonsillectomy and another was buying lab equipment for a biological weapons programme, key al-Qaeda members were watching the scenes from New York and Washington on television.

The documents show that just four days after 9/11, al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden went to a guesthouse in Afghanistans Kandahar province.
For the next three months, bin Laden and his confidant Ayman al Zawahiri travelled by car to several areas in Afghanistan. It was during that time that he delegated control of al-Qaeda to the groups Shura Council.

Leaked files revealed the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks warned that al-Qaeda has hidden a nuclear bomb in Europe which will unleash a nuclear hellstorm if Osama bin Laden is captured. The terror group also planned to make a 9/11 style attack on Londons Heathrow airport by crashing a hijacked airliner into one of the terminals, the files showed.

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed told Guantanamo Bay interrogators the terror group would detonate the nuclear device if the al-Qaeda chief was captured or killed, according to the classified files released by the WikiLeaks website.

Sheikh Mohammed, the self-professed mastermind of the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States, has been held at Guantanamo since 2006 and is to be tried in a military court at the US naval base on Cuba over the attacks.
His nuclear threat was revealed in Britains Daily Telegraph newspaper, one of several media outlets which have published the classified assessments of detainees at Guantanamo.

The German weekly Der Spiegel, also citing WikiLeaks, said that Sheikh Mohammed had told his interrogators he had set up two cells for the purpose of attacking Heathrow in 2002.

The aim was to seize control of an airliner shortly after take-off from Heathrow, one of the worlds busiest airports, turn it around and crash it into one of the four terminals.

According to leaked classified files, the United States held hundreds of inmates who were either totally innocent or low-risk for years and released dozens of high-risk Guantanamo inmates.

The new leaks reveal that inmates were held without trial on the basis of often seriously flawed information, such as from mentally ill or otherwise unreliable co-detainees or statements from suspects who had been abused or tortured, The New York Times reported.

It said that overall, US military analysts considered only 220 of all the suspects in the George W. Bush-era war on terror ever detained at Guantanamo to be dangerous extremists.

Another 380 were deemed to be low-ranking foot soldiers who traveled to Afghanistan or were part of the Taliban, the Telegraph reported.
In dozens of cases, senior US commanders were said to have concluded that there was no reason recorded for transfer to Guantanamo Bay.
According to a paper, the best-documented case of an abusive interrogation at Guantanamo was the questioning in 2002 and 2003 of Mohammed Qahtani, a Saudi believed to have taken part in plotting the September 11 attacks.
Qahtani was leashed like a dog, sexually humiliated and forced to urinate on himself, the paper said.

Although publicly released records allege detainee was subject to harsh interrogation techniques in the early stages of detention, Gahtanis file noted, his confessions appear to be true and are corroborated in reporting from other sources.

The dossiers show that 150 of the detainees were innocent Afghans and Pakistanis. There are now just over 180 detainees at the US naval base in Cuba.

The hundreds of classified documents - marked secret and noforn meaning the information is not to be shared with representatives of other countries - are assessments, interviews and internal memos from the Pentagons Joint Task Force at Guantanamo. The task force was supposed to determine who the detainees were, how they might be connected to terrorism and whether they posed a threat to the US and its allies in the future.

Among the findings in the files: A former detainee, Abu Sufian Ibrahim Ahmed Hamuda Bin Qumu, who is believed to be training rebel forces in Libya, has closer ties to al-Qaeda than previously understood publicly. According to his detainee assessment, Qumu allegedly trained at two al-Qaeda camps, fought in Afghanistan against the Soviets and the Northern Alliance, and moved to Sudan with other al-Qaeda members.

There is new detail on a senior explosives trainer for al-Qaeda, Tariq Mahmud Ahmad al Sawah, the man who claimed to have designed the prototype for a shoe bomb that failed ignite on a US plane in 2001. He was recommended for release from the prison because of his cooperation with authorities.

Shaker Aamer, also known as Sawad al-Madani, and called the professor at Guantanamo, said he had no connection to al-Qaeda. His military assessment says he was Osama bin Ladens personal English translator.

Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, the suspected plotter of the USS Cole attack in Yemen, reported directly to Osama bin Laden, according to the documents.
In an official statement to The New York Times, the Obama Administration defended their system for processing detainees.

Both the previous and the current administrations have made every effort to act with the utmost care and diligence in transferring detainees from Guantanamo, the statement said.

The statement said it was unfortunate The New York Times and other news organisations are publishing the classified Guantanamo documents. We strongly condemn the leaking of this sensitive information, the statement said. It was signed by Pentagon press secretary Geoff Morrell and Ambassador Dan Fried, the State Departments special envoy in charge of negotiating the closure of the Guantanamo facility.

Meanwhile, US intelligence sources told National Public Radio (NPR) they have been tracking a former Libyan detainee named Abu Sufian Qumu.
He was picked up in Pakistan and arrived in Guantanamo in early 2002. The Libyan government asked for him back in 2007. Guantanamo officials who investigated Qumu at that time thought he posed a future risk to the US and its allies. But four years ago, the US released him to the Libyan government anyway.

US intelligence officials now believe Qumu is helping train anti-government forces in Benghazi, Libya. It is unclear whether he is a leader of the rebels or simply joining in the anti-Qaddafi movement. What is certain, is that his secret Guantanamo file shows an association with al-Qaeda that stretches back decades.

Now that Qumu has turned up in Libya, US intelligence is trying to figure out if he still has those al-Qaeda connections.

Member of Congress are wondering the same thing. During Congressional hearings earlier this month Senator James Inhofe, a Republican, asked Admiral James Stavridis about the presence of al-Qaeda among the rebel forces.

In an another revealation, a file about Khalid Shaikh Mohammed says that sometime around March 2002, he ordered a former Baltimore resident to don a suicide bomb vest and carry out a martyrdom attack against then president Pervez Musharraf. But when the man, Majid Khan, got to the mosque that he had been told Musharraf would visit, the assignment turned out to be just a test of his willingness to die for the cause.

President Barack Obama pledged two years ago to close the prison at US naval base in Cuba but it remains in legal limbo.

Obama administration officials condemned the leaking of the documents but said the material is out of date.

Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell and State Department envoy Dan Fried said in a joint statement that the administrations Guantanamo review panel, established in January 2009, had made its own assessments.
Nation.
 

pappufromindia

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Re: Linking ISI with terrorism - A grave mistake

i think isi ki kalai ek din toh khulni hi hai.countdown begins now world next target should be destoy and finished this natorious agency as soon as possible.it is in best favour for pakistan also.coz isi damaging pakistan the most
 

Wadaich

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Re: Linking ISI with terrorism - A grave mistake

Pakistan-ISI-India.jpg


Amid other blunders, the US military classified Pakistan’s premium spy agency as a terrorist support entity in 2007 and used association with it as a justification to detain prisoners in Guantanamo Bay, according to leaked documents published on Sunday that are sure to further alienate Pakistan, the frontline ally in the war on terror.

One document, given to The New York Times, says detainees who allegedly associated with the Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate “may have provided support to al-Qaeda or the Taliban, or engaged in hostilities against US or Coalition forces.”

The ISI, along with al-Qaeda, Hamas and Hezbollah and Iranian intelligence, are among 32 groups on the list of “associated forces,” which also includes Egypt’s Islamic Jihad, headed by al-Qaeda deputy Ayman al-Zawahiri.

The document defines an “associate force” as “militant forces and organisations with which al-Qaeda, the al-Qaeda network, or the Taliban has an established working, supportive, or beneficiary relationship for the achievement of common goals.”

Earlier, the US Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Admiral Mike Mullen had said, “ISI has a long standing relationship with extremist networks”.
The document in question, “JTF-GTMO Matrix of Threat Indicators for Enemy Combatants”, likely dates from 2007 according to its classification code, and is part of a trove of 759 files on detainees held in Guantanamo Bay, the US military prison in Cuba.

However, the timing of documents puts a big question mark on its authenticity in the first place.

The secret documents were obtained by WikiLeaks and date from between 2002 and 2009, but they were made available to The New York Times from a separate source, the paper said.

They reveal that most of the 172 remaining prisoners have been rated as a “high risk” of posing a threat to the United States and its allies if released without adequate rehabilitation and supervision, the newspaper said.
The documents also show about a third of the 600 detainees already sent to other countries were also designated “high risk” before they were freed or passed to the custody of other governments, the Times said in its report late on Sunday.

The dossiers, prepared under the Bush administration, also show the seat-of-the-pants intelligence gathering in war zones that led to the incarcerations of innocent men for years in cases of mistaken identity or simple misfortune, the Times said.

The documents are largely silent about the use of the harsh interrogation tactics at Guantanamo that drew global condemnation, the newspaper reported.

The Times also said an Obama administration task force set up in January 2009 had reviewed the assessments and, in some cases, come to different conclusions. “Thus... the documents published by The Times may not represent the government’s current views of detainees at Guantanamo.”
WikiLeaks previously released classified Pentagon reports on the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and 250,000 State Department cables. Bradley Manning, a 23-year-old US soldier accused of leaking secret documents to WikiLeaks has been detained since May of last year.

The Guardian newspaper has obtained papers that reveal that the US authorities instructed interrogators at Guantanamo Bay to treat those connected with the ISI alongside terrorists associated with organisations such as al-Qaeda, Hamas and Hezbollah.

The revelations are bound to strain US-Pakistan relations further, although the papers date back to 2007.

Washington Post reported on Monday citing documents accessed by WikiLeaks that some senior al-Qaeda leaders were in Karachi on Sep 11, 2001 and most returned to Afghanistan within a day.

The media report said that core al-Qaeda leaders were in Karachi. While one of them was recovering at a hospital from a tonsillectomy and another was buying lab equipment for a biological weapons programme, key al-Qaeda members were watching the scenes from New York and Washington on television.

The documents show that just four days after 9/11, al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden went to a guesthouse in Afghanistan’s Kandahar province.
For the next three months, bin Laden and his confidant Ayman al Zawahiri travelled by car to several areas in Afghanistan. It was during that time that he delegated control of al-Qaeda to the group’s Shura Council.

Leaked files revealed the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks warned that al-Qaeda has hidden a nuclear bomb in Europe which will unleash a “nuclear hellstorm” if Osama bin Laden is captured. The terror group also planned to make a 9/11 style attack on London’s Heathrow airport by crashing a hijacked airliner into one of the terminals, the files showed.

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed told Guantanamo Bay interrogators the terror group would detonate the nuclear device if the al-Qaeda chief was captured or killed, according to the classified files released by the WikiLeaks website.

Sheikh Mohammed, the self-professed mastermind of the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States, has been held at Guantanamo since 2006 and is to be tried in a military court at the US naval base on Cuba over the attacks.
His nuclear threat was revealed in Britain’s Daily Telegraph newspaper, one of several media outlets which have published the classified assessments of detainees at Guantanamo.

The German weekly Der Spiegel, also citing WikiLeaks, said that Sheikh Mohammed had told his interrogators he had set up two cells for the purpose of attacking Heathrow in 2002.

The aim was to seize control of an airliner shortly after take-off from Heathrow, one of the world’s busiest airports, turn it around and crash it into one of the four terminals.

According to leaked classified files, the United States held hundreds of inmates who were either totally innocent or low-risk for years and released dozens of high-risk Guantanamo inmates.

The new leaks reveal that inmates were held without trial on the basis of often seriously flawed information, such as from mentally ill or otherwise unreliable co-detainees or statements from suspects who had been abused or tortured, The New York Times reported.

It said that overall, US military analysts considered only 220 of all the suspects in the George W. Bush-era “war on terror” ever detained at Guantanamo to be dangerous extremists.

Another 380 were deemed to be low-ranking foot soldiers who traveled to Afghanistan or were part of the Taliban, the Telegraph reported.
In dozens of cases, senior US commanders were said to have concluded that there was “no reason recorded for transfer” to Guantanamo Bay.
According to a paper, the best-documented case of an abusive interrogation at Guantanamo was the questioning in 2002 and 2003 of Mohammed Qahtani, a Saudi believed to have taken part in plotting the September 11 attacks.
Qahtani was leashed like a dog, sexually humiliated and forced to urinate on himself, the paper said.

“Although publicly released records allege detainee was subject to harsh interrogation techniques in the early stages of detention,” Gahtani’s file noted, his confessions “appear to be true and are corroborated in reporting from other sources.”

The dossiers show that 150 of the detainees were innocent Afghans and Pakistanis. There are now just over 180 detainees at the US naval base in Cuba.

The hundreds of classified documents - marked “secret” and “noforn” meaning the information is not to be shared with representatives of other countries - are assessments, interviews and internal memos from the Pentagon’s Joint Task Force at Guantanamo. The task force was supposed to determine who the detainees were, how they might be connected to terrorism and whether they posed a threat to the US and its allies in the future.

Among the findings in the files: A former detainee, Abu Sufian Ibrahim Ahmed Hamuda Bin Qumu, who is believed to be training rebel forces in Libya, has closer ties to al-Qaeda than previously understood publicly. According to his detainee assessment, Qumu allegedly trained at two al-Qaeda camps, fought in Afghanistan against the Soviets and the Northern Alliance, and moved to Sudan with other al-Qaeda members.

There is new detail on a senior explosives trainer for al-Qaeda, Tariq Mahmud Ahmad al Sawah, the man who claimed to have designed the prototype for a shoe bomb that failed ignite on a US plane in 2001. He was recommended for release from the prison because of his cooperation with authorities.

Shaker Aamer, also known as Sawad al-Madani, and called “the professor” at Guantanamo, said he had no connection to al-Qaeda. His military assessment says he was Osama bin Laden’s personal English translator.

Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, the suspected plotter of the USS Cole attack in Yemen, reported directly to Osama bin Laden, according to the documents.
In an official statement to The New York Times, the Obama Administration defended their system for processing detainees.

“Both the previous and the current administrations have made every effort to act with the utmost care and diligence in transferring detainees from Guantanamo,” the statement said.

The statement said it was “unfortunate” The New York Times and other news organisations are publishing the classified Guantanamo documents. “We strongly condemn the leaking of this sensitive information,” the statement said. It was signed by Pentagon press secretary Geoff Morrell and Ambassador Dan Fried, the State Department’s special envoy in charge of negotiating the closure of the Guantanamo facility.

Meanwhile, US intelligence sources told National Public Radio (NPR) they have been tracking a former Libyan detainee named Abu Sufian Qumu.
He was picked up in Pakistan and arrived in Guantanamo in early 2002. The Libyan government asked for him back in 2007. Guantanamo officials who investigated Qumu at that time thought he posed a future risk to the US and its allies. But four years ago, the US released him to the Libyan government anyway.

US intelligence officials now believe Qumu is helping train anti-government forces in Benghazi, Libya. It is unclear whether he is a leader of the rebels or simply joining in the anti-Qaddafi movement. What is certain, is that his secret Guantanamo file shows an association with al-Qaeda that stretches back decades.

Now that Qumu has turned up in Libya, US intelligence is trying to figure out if he still has those al-Qaeda connections.

Member of Congress are wondering the same thing. During Congressional hearings earlier this month Senator James Inhofe, a Republican, asked Admiral James Stavridis about the presence of al-Qaeda among the rebel forces.

In an another revealation, a file about Khalid Shaikh Mohammed says that sometime around March 2002, he ordered a former Baltimore resident to don a suicide bomb vest and carry out a “martyrdom” attack against then president Pervez Musharraf. But when the man, Majid Khan, got to the mosque that he had been told Musharraf would visit, the assignment turned out to be just a test of his “willingness to die for the cause.”

President Barack Obama pledged two years ago to close the prison at US naval base in Cuba but it remains in legal limbo.

Obama administration officials condemned the leaking of the documents but said the material is out of date.

Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell and State Department envoy Dan Fried said in a joint statement that the administration’s Guantanamo review panel, established in January 2009, had made its own assessments.
Nation.

I think as revealed by Webster Tarpley that a new security bloc based on PAK+ China+Russia+Saudia may be in the offing, the campaign against ISI and Pak army by CIA is on the rise. It shows American's frustration. Even on this forum people with open (unicorn etc) and hidden ID's (Adnan_Swati) have expedited their campaign to malign first defense line of Pakistan i.e ISI. What is your take?
 

concern_paki

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Linking ISI with terrorism - A grave mistake

i think isi ki kalai ek din toh khulni hi hai.countdown begins now world next target should be destoy and finished this natorious agency as soon as possible.it is in best favour for pakistan also.coz isi damaging pakistan the most

Like RAW is doing the same thing with India....... But ISI is not RAW .... you idiot !!!!!!!
 

mt_dilber

MPA (400+ posts)
Re: Linking ISI with terrorism - A grave mistake

i think isi ki kalai ek din toh khulni hi hai.countdown begins now world next target should be destoy and finished this natorious agency as soon as possible.it is in best favour for pakistan also.coz isi damaging pakistan the most

wake up mere pappu.....(ab tum ko kya bataoon main pappu kis ko kehta hun....lol) bachay life is not bollywood film and battlefield is not a video game. ISI ki ranking RAW se 5 point ooper hai...aur aik aur baat.....RAW agents **** their pants when they think about the day when US (CIA) will wrap up from afghanistan....they know that will be the time when ISI will show its teath & nails.....lol
 

Wadaich

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Re: Linking ISI with terrorism - A grave mistake

wake up mere pappu.....(ab tum ko kya bataoon main pappu kis ko kehta hun....lol) bachay life is not bollywood film and battlefield is not a video game. ISI ki ranking RAW se 5 point ooper hai...aur aik aur baat.....RAW agents **** their pants when they think about the day when US (CIA) will wrap up from afghanistan....they know that will be the time when ISI will show its teath & nails.....lol

Yahi samjho kay RAW, ISI ki BulBul hay. Yah jaisay Pervaiz Musharaf Aslam sukheray ka bulbul tha.
 

Wadaich

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Re: Linking ISI with terrorism - A grave mistake

i think isi ki kalai ek din toh khulni hi hai.countdown begins now world next target should be destoy and finished this natorious agency as soon as possible.it is in best favour for pakistan also.coz isi damaging pakistan the most

RAW must be telling his Bapoo (CIA) that, save me from ISI. And CIA shall tell you that ISI has already put its foot on my tail.
 

moazzamniaz

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
اگر پاکستان آج موجود ہے تو یہ صرف اور صرف خدا کی رحمت ہے. اسکے بعد اسکی عوام کی اپنے ملک سے محبت اور اسکے لیے قربانیاں. کوئی ایک فرد یا ادارے کی مرہون منت یہ ملک نہیں چل رہا، نا ہی کوئی ایک فرد یا ادارہ نا گزیر ہے. اپنے کسی بھی حکومتی ادارے کی ناکامیوں اور غلطیوں پر مثبت تنقید کرنا ہر پاکستانی کا حق ہی نہیں، بلکہ اسکا قومی فریضہ ہے . تا کہ راۓ عامہ کی مدد سے انکی اصلاح ہوتی رہے
 

awan4ever

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Have you people ever considered thinking for a brief moment in what condition our internal security situation is today?
You guys keep on championing the ISI case but as far as the situation on ground is concerned we are hurtling down an abyss of total chaos with suicide bombers and target killers roaming around willfully killing people to their pleasure.
We have a major insurgency in Baluchistan and a very tough situation in the tribal areas of KPk.
How does this absolve the ISI of failure to control the internal situation?
If you claim foreign hands and all that then again it is a failure of the ISI to allow the foreign hand to penetrate so deeply and effectively into the very fabric of our country.
Our Afghan policy has been an utter failure so much so that it has cost us to put the Kashmir issue on the back burner.
So if I or people like me criticize the failures of ISI why does that mean we are 'anti-state' agents?
Is it not my right as a citizen and tax payer to question the effectiveness of the ISIs strategies?

IF I am critical of the governing party that doesnt qualify me as a traitor but if I do the same for ISI or the Army and call them inept and corrupt that makes me a traitor?

Where does it say in our constitution that any citizen criticizing the institution of the Armed Forces shall be deemed as a traitor?

If you are happy with the quality of work that the ISI is doing and its strategies its fine by me but I have the right to be critical of their objectives as well as achievements.
 

Wadaich

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
اگر پاکستان آج موجود ہے تو یہ صرف اور صرف خدا کی رحمت ہے. اسکے بعد اسکی عوام کی اپنے ملک سے محبت اور اسکے لیے قربانیاں. کوئی ایک فرد یا ادارے کی مرہون منت یہ ملک نہیں چل رہا، نا ہی کوئی ایک فرد یا ادارہ نا گزیر ہے. اپنے کسی بھی حکومتی ادارے کی ناکامیوں اور غلطیوں پر مثبت تنقید کرنا ہر پاکستانی کا حق ہی نہیں، بلکہ اسکا قومی فریضہ ہے . تا کہ راۓ عامہ کی مدد سے انکی اصلاح ہوتی رہے


آپ کا یہ حق سر آنکھوں پر. مجھے ہو سکتا ہے آپ سے کی گنا زیادہ شکایات ہون اپنے اداروں سے. ہو سکتا ہے میں ذاتی طور پر نا انصافی شکار بھی ہوا ہوں. لیکن کیا میری ذات پاکستان سے آگے ہے؟ پاکستان اگر ہے تو ہم سب معزز ہیں ورنہ ہندوستان کا گجرات ہے اور نیزے میں پروئی ہوئی میری مائیں اور بہنیں. مرے پاس چوائس بہت محدود ہے بھائی.
 

Wadaich

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Have you people ever considered thinking for a brief moment in what condition our internal security situation is today?
You guys keep on championing the ISI case but as far as the situation on ground is concerned we are hurtling down an abyss of total chaos with suicide bombers and target killers roaming around willfully killing people to their pleasure.
We have a major insurgency in Baluchistan and a very tough situation in the tribal areas of KPk.
How does this absolve the ISI of failure to control the internal situation?
If you claim foreign hands and all that then again it is a failure of the ISI to allow the foreign hand to penetrate so deeply and effectively into the very fabric of our country.
Our Afghan policy has been an utter failure so much so that it has cost us to put the Kashmir issue on the back burner.
So if I or people like me criticize the failures of ISI why does that mean we are 'anti-state' agents?
Is it not my right as a citizen and tax payer to question the effectiveness of the ISIs strategies?

IF I am critical of the governing party that doesnt qualify me as a traitor but if I do the same for ISI or the Army and call them inept and corrupt that makes me a traitor?

Where does it say in our constitution that any citizen criticizing the institution of the Armed Forces shall be deemed as a traitor?

If you are happy with the quality of work that the ISI is doing and its strategies its fine by me but I have the right to be critical of their objectives as well as achievements.

You belong to a very respectable warrior tribe (AWAN) in Pakistan. Suppose (God forbid) as it is common in our village life, your tribe have clash with another tribe whose nature is alway of very treacherous nature and always is seeking to harm to your tribe. At the same time on the other hand you feel that there are some internal misunderstandings and oppressions carried out by some fellows within the tribe. While your tribe is engaged with the rival tribe, (1)Would you get in the "CHOWK" and start hurling abuse on the elders of your own tribe, instead of keeping quite and look for an appropriate time for resolving the internal matters with wisdom once the engagement is over (2)? If you get to the first choice, then please let me know the actual words of the elders "Qutbi Awans" about your attitude? I would like to listen the words with actual expression?????
 
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moazzamniaz

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)


آپ کا یہ حق سر آنکھوں پر. مجھے ہو سکتا ہے آپ سے کی گنا زیادہ شکایات ہون اپنے اداروں سے. ہو سکتا ہے میں ذاتی طور پر نا انصافی شکار بھی ہوا ہوں. لیکن کیا میری ذات پاکستان سے آگے ہے؟ پاکستان اگر ہے تو ہم سب معزز ہیں ورنہ ہندوستان کا گجرات ہے اور نیزے میں پروئی ہوئی میری مائیں اور بہنیں. مرے پاس چوائس بہت محدود ہے بھائی.

وڑائچ بھائی، کیا "سیاست ڈاٹ پی کے" سے آئ ایس آئ یا فوج کے خلاف کوئی انقلاب اٹھنے والا ہے ؟؟؟؟؟؟ یہ صرف اور صرف ایک فورم ہے

اگر یھاں بھی پاکستانی بھائی فوج یا آئ ایس آئ پر تنقید نہیں کر سکتے تو پھر کہاں جائیں؟؟؟ میڈیا یعنی چینلز اور اخبارات پر تو ویسے ہی فوج کی کڑی سنسر شپ ہے

میں آپکی راۓ کا بیحد احترام کرتا ہوں اور ہو سکتا ہے کہ آپ کی بات صحیح ہو . مگر میرا نقطہ نظر یہ ہے کہ تنقید نا کرنے سے، غلطیوں پر بھی داد دینے سے اور ان پر احتساب کا کوئی مؤثر سسٹم نا ہونے کی وجہ سے، فوج اور ایجنسیاں اور زیادہ بگڑتی ہیں، اور زیادہ نت نۓ ناکام تجربات کرتی ہیں

ان سب باتوں کے باوجود، مجھے آرمی کے فینز بھائیوں پر اسوقت تک
کوئی اعتراض نہیں، جب تک وہ مجھے غدار نا کہیں، یا 'پاکستانیت' سے نا نکالیں. آپ لوگ دلائل دیں، انکے کارنامے گنوائیں، اچھے کاموں کے ثبوت دیں وغیرہ وغیرہ ، مجھے رتی برابر بھی کوئی مسلہ نہیں

جہاں انڈینز یا امریکنز کو جواب دینے کی باری آتی ہے تو یہی آرمی پر تنقید کرنے والے بھائی بھی سب سے آگے ہوتے ہیں، یعنی اس خطرہ کا ہم سمیت سب کو احساس ہے، میرے تو آرمی کے خلاف کمنٹس بھی اردو رسم الخط میں ہوتے ہیں تا کہ انڈینز کو تسکین نا مل سکے

یقین کریں کہ مجھے ایسا لگتا ہے کہ میرے بھائی چاہتے ہیں کہ آرمی کو ایمان کا حصہ بنا دیا جاۓ اور اسپر تنقید کو "بلاسفیمی" قرار دے دیا جاۓ. ہاں، گالیاں وغیرہ نہیں دینی چاہئیں. اگر کوئی آپ کو میرے الفاظ برے لگتے ہیں تو وہ بتا دیں، میں وہ الفاظ استعمال کرنا چھوڑ دوں گا. لیکن تنقید کا حق رہنے دیں. شکریہ
 
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moazzamniaz

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
@wadaich,

AoA brother,

PAK+ China+Russia+Saudia nexus might not be possible because Saudia is sitting in CIA's/Mossad's lap.
What if our Arab brothers and sisters throw all these US puppets in the whole middle east???? There is a chance of even bigger Muslim block then.
 

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