A very Intresting Debate on Beard (DARHI) - Javed Ahmed Ghamidi

[meezan]

 

[KK YASIR]

Pehlay mujhy shaq tha ab yeh debate sunney k bad confirm ho gaya hai .. yeh shakhs Gamdii apna hi deen bana raha hai .....


Allah ki ***** ho is per aur is k followers per ...

 

[cefspan]

Pehlay mujhy shaq tha ab yeh debate sunney k bad confirm ho gaya hai .. yeh shakhs Gamdii apna hi deen bana raha hai .....


Allah ki ***** ho is per aur is k followers per ...

jusT becausE hE beaT thE maulanA iN argumenT?

 

[c4cheema]

jusT becausE hE beaT thE maulanA iN argumenT?

no because of being modernist

 

[Temojin]

[MENTION=11980]c4cheema[/MENTION]

Provided a solid argument. By the by, I don't know why would ghamdi have a take on something for which none murders anyone but only advises and is considered a better thing. Was this even discussable? The same process which I had pointed out earlier, start with things which seem harmless, do hard work and make everyone speechless for that so people start believing in you and then go for the actual thing. This has been the design forever and still works.

[MENTION=12754]cefspan[/MENTION]

 

[indigo]

jusT becausE hE beaT thE maulanA iN argumenT?

Very very Happy Birthday to you, may you live long..... :)

 

[cefspan]

@c4cheema

Provided a solid argument. By the by, I don't know why would ghamdi have a take on something for which none murders anyone but only advises and is considered a better thing. Was this even discussable? The same process which I had pointed out earlier, start with things which seem harmless, do hard work and make everyone speechless for that so people start believing in you and then go for the actual thing. This has been the design forever and still works.

@cefspan

i don't follow ghamdi, but what he says, kind of like sounds obvious and logical. like in this debate, the maulana said ke ji its natural for men to have beard, :P maulana tried to go logical way, he forgot the fact that a large number of women do also have facial hair, not full blown beard but minor facial hair. logical arguments is what makes the maulanas waver.
like there was a discussion on a thread, i guess it was in 2010 or something like that regarding polygammy/multiple marriages. the guy quoed from a maulana's book ke its obvious logical , polygammy is for men not for women, if a women has 2 husbands how would u know ke whose son is in his womb? see the guy went logical, another one replied, bhai dna test hota he aj kal, agr yehi masla tha tou kya halal he ab?
I AM NOT SAYS THAT WOMEN SHOULD be ASTAGFIRULLAH ALLOWED POLYGAMY. i meant either debate strictly on facts, jab ye logic le ke atee haen tou jo parha likha nhn hota wo tou subdue ho jta he, BUT THE ONE WHOSE CLEVER CAN WITH A TWIST OF TONGUE CAN CRASH THE WHOLE LOGIC..[MENTION=17789]WatanDost[/MENTION]

 

[cefspan]

Very very Happy Birthday to you, may you live long..... :)

thanks! :D ITS GOOD TO KNOW THAT SOME ONE REMEMBERS :)

 

[Temojin]

i don't follow ghamdi, but what he says, kind of like sounds obvious and logical. like in this debate, the maulana said ke ji its natural for men to have beard, :P maulana tried to go logical way, he forgot the fact that a large number of women do also have facial hair, not full blown beard but minor facial hair. logical arguments is what makes the maulanas waver.
like there was a discussion on a thread, i guess it was in 2010 or something like that regarding polygammy/multiple marriages. the guy quoed from a maulana's book ke its obvious logical , polygammy is for men not for women, if a women has 2 husbands how would u know ke whose son is in his womb? see the guy went logical, another one replied, bhai dna test hota he aj kal, agr yehi masla tha tou kya halal he ab?
I AM NOT SAYS THAT WOMEN SHOULD be ASTAGFIRULLAH ALLOWED POLYGAMY. i meant either debate strictly on facts, jab ye logic le ke atee haen tou jo parha likha nhn hota wo tou subdue ho jta he, BUT THE ONE WHOSE CLEVER CAN WITH A TWIST OF TONGUE CAN CRASH THE WHOLE LOGIC..

I know you don't follow him at all.

See what I say is that an atheist has the best of logic. He'll make you bang your head in wall just denying the very existence of God or the religion itself. He would only present a single book of karen armstrong and you would not have any choice but to pull your hair. He would prove that Kaballah is Kaba + Allah and you would fail to argue but then again, is he right?

This is with logic-only approach. Why even debate upon such issues like polygamy or beard etc. when you claim yourself to be a scholar on Islam. A non-Muslim can surely come and discuss these things with us and we would then try to present logic but if someone claims to be like Ghamdi does and then goes for debate upon such issues, he shouldn't even be listened to.

Vese humans are mammals and all mammals have facial hair. We say that beard is important because

1- Muhammad pbuh said so

2- We want to have a beard like Muhammad pbuh.

Now if one doesn't keep beard, he isn't going to hell for that or get out of the fold of Islam but to debate upon it just to get his conscience clear isn't the way to go.

By the by, ghamdi does have a beard, it is just that his beard doesn't grow at all but the few hair he has and the much they grow, he has got them (I have seen it myself and had questioned him about it as well). But do look at it the way I have described above. He went with things like women don't need mahram etc. which seemed very logical but then all out went against Qital. So the course is quite clear.

 

[cefspan]

I know you don't follow him at all.

See what I say is that an atheist has the best of logic. He'll make you bang your head in wall just denying the very existence of God or the religion itself. He would only present a single book of karen armstrong and you would not have any choice but to pull your hair. He would prove that Kaballah is Kaba + Allah and you would fail to argue but then again, is he right?

This is with logic-only approach. Why even debate upon such issues like polygamy or beard etc. when you claim yourself to be a scholar on Islam. A non-Muslim can surely come and discuss these things with us and we would then try to present logic but if someone claims to be like Ghamdi does and then goes for debate upon such issues, he shouldn't even be listened to.

Vese humans are mammals and all mammals have facial hair. We say that beard is important because

1- Muhammad pbuh said so

2- We want to have a beard like Muhammad pbuh.

Now if one doesn't keep beard, he isn't going to hell for that or get out of the fold of Islam but to debate upon it just to get his conscience clear isn't the way to go.

By the by, ghamdi does have a beard, it is just that his beard doesn't grow at all but the few hair he has and the much they grow, he has got them (I have seen it myself and had questioned him about it as well). But do look at it the way I have described above. He went with things like women don't need mahram etc. which seemed very logical but then all out went against Qital. So the course is quite clear.

some one posted this, ishfaQ afmeD sb ka he ye. I GUESS IT WAS [MENTION=12266]PAINDO[/MENTION]

جن لوگوں نے خدا کو عقل سے اور دلیل سے ثابت کرنے کی کوشش کی ( ولایت میں اس پر بڑا کام ہوا ، اور اب بھی ہو رہا ہے )

اور جن لوگوں نے خدا کے وجود کو دلیل سے ثابت بھی کر دیا ، اور لوگ اس کو مان بھی گئے ، انھوں نے خدا کو دلیل کے تابع کر دیا -

دلیل کو خدا سے افضل کر دیا - دلیل خدا سے بڑی ہو گئی - ​

...
لیکن جو خدا دلیل سے ثابت ہوگیا .................. وہ دلیل سے رد بھی ہو سکتا ہے -

چنانچہ اس دنیا میں جتنے بھی دہریےہیں ، اور خدا کو نہ ماننے والے ہیں .............. وہ خدا کو ماننے والے

دلائل پسند لوگوں کی وجہ سے ہیں -

by the way, u accepted cefspan's friend request on facebooK :P

​

 

[ramay67]

حضرت آدم علیہ سلام سے لیکر حضور نبئ کریم صل الله و علیہ و سلم تک ہر نبی کا پیغام اور حلیہ مبارک ایک تھا ۔ اس لئیے داڑھی ہر نبی کی سنت ہے ۔ حضور نبئی کریم صل الله و علیہ و سلم کی حکمیہ سنت مبارکہ ہے جو نہیں رکھتے وہ اپنی کمی اور کوتاہی کا اعتراف کریں ہو سکتا ہے الله غفور رحیم روز حساب درگزر فرمائے ۔ اسکے برعکس اس کے خلاف دلیلیں گڑھنا اور تاویل کرنا مردود ہے ۔
کیونکہ عذر گناہ بد تر از گناہ​

 

[WatanDost]

jusT becausE hE beaT thE maulanA iN argumenT?

Dr Sahab Mr. Ghamdi kai Paas DALEEL tow hai laikin sirif aik
"Maira yeah NUKTA e NAZAr hai, Aap ka dosra, laikin mujhay Iktelaaf ka haq hai"

Bas yeahi aik DALEEL hai Ghamdi kai paas.
Jahan Es ki JAHALAT Quran aur HADITH sai sabit ho jati hai wahan
"raey ka haq yaad aa jata hai issay"

 

[KK YASIR]

jusT becausE hE beaT thE maulanA iN argumenT?

@c4cheema, @Afraheem @
swing @anasmr @ramay67 ,

@​

WatanDost


Kabhi Kabhi Zydha Knowledge b Tabahii aur Barbadii ka sabab banta hai Gamdii k sath b yehii huwa hai .. Wo Amal k bajaiye ilm k peechey par gaya aur Amal kerna bhool gaya.... .. jese Shaitan ka kaam b Daleeel dimaag me dalna hai mohabbat nikalna hai

Jo cheez nahin kernii us k barey me Daleeel le aya .. ...Eman ka Talluq DIL se hota hai dimaag se nahin ..........Ager Allah aur us k Rasool pbuh se mohabbat ho tu un k Sunnaton per amal kerne k liyeh kisi daleel ki zaroorat nai.. bus Amal kerna hai aur jinhoon ne Amal kia wo kamiyaab huwe aur jo Daleel k peechey lag gaiye wo Shaitan k sathi ho gaiye

 

[cefspan]

Dr Sahab Mr. Ghamdi kai Paas DALEEL tow hai laikin sirif aik
"Maira yeah NUKTA e NAZAr hai, Aap ka dosra, laikin mujhay Iktelaaf ka haq hai"

Bas yeahi aik DALEEL hai Ghamdi kai paas.
Jahan Es ki JAHALAT Quran aur HADITH sai sabit ho jati hai wahan
"raey ka haq yaad aa jata hai issay"

i don't follow ghamdi, but what he says, kind of like sounds obvious and logical. like in this debate, the maulana said ke ji its natural for men to have beard, ​

:P

maulana tried to go logical way, he forgot the fact that a large number of women do also have facial hair, not full blown beard but minor facial hair. logical arguments is what makes the maulanas waver.
like there was a discussion on a thread, i guess it was in 2010 or something like that regarding polygammy/multiple marriages. the guy quoed from a maulana's book ke its obvious logical , polygammy is for men not for women, if a women has 2 husbands how would u know ke whose son is in his womb? see the guy went logical, another one replied, bhai dna test hota he aj kal, agr yehi masla tha tou kya halal he ab?
I AM NOT SAYS THAT WOMEN SHOULD be ASTAGFIRULLAH ALLOWED POLYGAMY. i meant either debate strictly on facts, jab ye logic le ke atee haen tou jo parha likha nhn hota wo tou subdue ho jta he, BUT THE ONE WHOSE CLEVER CAN WITH A TWIST OF TONGUE CAN CRASH THE WHOLE LOGIC..​

 

[WatanDost]

i don't follow ghamdi, but what he says, kind of like sounds obvious and logical. like in this debate, the maulana said ke ji its natural for men to have beard, ​

:P

maulana tried to go logical way, he forgot the fact that a large number of women do also have facial hair, not full blown beard but minor facial hair. logical arguments is what makes the maulanas waver.
like there was a discussion on a thread, i guess it was in 2010 or something like that regarding polygammy/multiple marriages. the guy quoed from a maulana's book ke its obvious logical , polygammy is for men not for women, if a women has 2 husbands how would u know ke whose son is in his womb? see the guy went logical, another one replied, bhai dna test hota he aj kal, agr yehi masla tha tou kya halal he ab?
I AM NOT SAYS THAT WOMEN SHOULD be ASTAGFIRULLAH ALLOWED POLYGAMY. i meant either debate strictly on facts, jab ye logic le ke atee haen tou jo parha likha nhn hota wo tou subdue ho jta he, BUT THE ONE WHOSE CLEVER CAN WITH A TWIST OF TONGUE CAN CRASH THE WHOLE LOGIC..​

AHADITH Nabwee pbuh KIYA KEHTI HAIN





Click here to view the original image of 816x459px and 1017KB.

Click here to view the original image of 816x459px and 494KB.

​

???? ?? ????? ?? ??????? ?? ??? ?? ?? ????? ???? ???
?? ?? ??? ?? ??? ????? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?? ????? ??? ???? ?? ?????
????? ???? ?? ?? ???
?? ??? ?? ?? ???? ?????? ???? ???
??? ??? @????? ?? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ?? ???
??? ??? ??? ?? ???? ?????? ?? ?? ?? ????? ?? "???? ????? " ???? ??? ???? "????" ???? -

???? ?? ????? "???? ??? ?????" ?? ??? ????? ?? ??
"???? ?? ?? ???? ?? ????? ??? ?? ???? ?? ???? ???? ???? ??? ????? ?? ???? ???? ?? ????????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ??? ?? ??? ?? ????? ???? ?? ???? ????"
??? ????? ?? ??????
???? ????? ??? ????
????? ?? ????? ??.
​

[MENTION=25683]meezan[/MENTION] , [MENTION=23969]indigo[/MENTION] , [MENTION=13412]Mughal1[/MENTION] , [MENTION=25612]Benito[/MENTION] ,

​

 

[cefspan]

AHADITH Nabwee pbuh KIYA KEHTI HAIN





Click here to view the original image of 816x459px and 1017KB.

Click here to view the original image of 816x459px and 494KB.

​

???? ?? ????? ?? ??????? ?? ??? ?? ?? ????? ???? ???
?? ?? ??? ?? ??? ????? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?? ????? ??? ???? ?? ?????
????? ???? ?? ?? ???
?? ??? ?? ?? ???? ?????? ???? ???
??? ??? @????? ?? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ?? ???
??? ??? ??? ?? ???? ?????? ?? ?? ?? ????? ?? "???? ????? " ???? ??? ???? "????" ???? -

???? ?? ????? "???? ??? ?????" ?? ??? ????? ?? ??
"???? ?? ?? ???? ?? ????? ??? ?? ???? ?? ???? ???? ???? ??? ????? ?? ???? ???? ?? ????????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ??? ?? ??? ?? ????? ???? ?? ???? ????"
??? ????? ?? ??????
???? ????? ??? ????
????? ?? ????? ??.
​

@meezan , @indigo , @Mughal1 , @Benito ,

​

what i said was ke mostly maulanas aren't good in explaining stuff logically. a good muslim doesn't NEED logic for the actions/obligations. few maulanas try to explain it all in terms of logic as the one i said and agr agla parha likha ho tou phr maulana se larai 'phada' bhi pr jta hae. OTHER THAN THAT I WASN'T JUSTIFYING KE WOMEN SHOULD MARRY MORE THAN ONE MAN I WAS GIVING AN EXAMPLE :D

 

[anasmr]

 

[anasmr]

 

[Ch Azam]

Main kafi arsa say is site pe ghamdi ko deakh raha hoon or meray kuch dost bhi is k upload direct send kr detay hain ......... bohat arq-reezi k bad main is nateejay per puncha hoon k ......... jab mirza ghulam ahmad ne nabouwat ka dawa keya tha tu us k pass bhi bohat dalail howa kartay thay lakin phir jab sahi Aalim k sath manazray ka waqt aaya tu mirza bhag geya .......... agar ap mirza ki thori history parh lain tu apko in doono main yehi mutabiqat zaroor nazar aye gi ......... aagay ap log ziada samajhdar hain.........or meri apnay doston sey guzarish ha k Please Ghamdi k mutaliq post mujay send na keya karain na-haq unka time zaya hota ho ga......keyon k main is fitnay sey nafrat karta hoon........... Allham Ham Sab ko Sahi Maenoon main Nabi Kareem pbuh ki sunnah pe amal karnay ki toufeeq aata karay......

 

[Mughal1]

AHADITH Nabwee pbuh KIYA KEHTI HAIN





Click here to view the original image of 816x459px and 1017KB.

Click here to view the original image of 816x459px and 494KB.

​

???? ?? ????? ?? ??????? ?? ??? ?? ?? ????? ???? ???
?? ?? ??? ?? ??? ????? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?? ????? ??? ???? ?? ?????
????? ???? ?? ?? ???
?? ??? ?? ?? ???? ?????? ???? ???
??? ??? @????? ?? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ?? ???
??? ??? ??? ?? ???? ?????? ?? ?? ?? ????? ?? "???? ????? " ???? ??? ???? "????" ???? -

???? ?? ????? "???? ??? ?????" ?? ??? ????? ?? ??
"???? ?? ?? ???? ?? ????? ??? ?? ???? ?? ???? ???? ???? ??? ????? ?? ???? ???? ?? ????????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ??? ?? ??? ?? ????? ???? ?? ???? ????"
??? ????? ?? ??????
???? ????? ??? ????
????? ?? ????? ??.
​

@meezan , @indigo , @Mughal1 , @Benito ,

​

Dear watandost, jab aap itni baat hi ko nahin samajh rehe ke ise se pehle keh aap kisi bat ko batore reference pesh karen khud us baat frame of refernce jaanana zaroori hai. aasaan yun samjhen keh yeh baat apni jaga drust hai ke nabi ki baat nabi ki baat hai aur us ka apna aik munfard maqaam hai magar ise pehle yeh saabit karna intahee zaroori hai keh woh baat fil waaqehee nabi hi ki baat hai.

bil farz aik baat nabi hi ki baat saabit hoti hai to phir bhi us ko us ke maqsad ke ehtbaar se dekhaa jaaye ga. yani nabi nabi hai aur sirf khudaa hi khudaa hai lihaaza khudaa ki baat apne maqsad ke ehtbaar se dekhi jaaye gi aur nabi ki baat apne maqsad ke ehtbaar se.

1)dastoor ka haq sirf aur sirf khudaa ko hai kyunkeh woh is kaainaat ka maalik hai. kisi makhlooq ko sire hi se yeh haq hai hi nahin ke woh apne liye dastoor khud tajweez kare.

2)insaan ko dastoor saazi ka haq hi nahin hai kyunkeh insaan kaainaat ka maalik nahin hai. isi liye kisi nabi ko bhi yeh haq nahin hai keh woh insaanu ke liye dastoor banaaye kyunkeh nabi khud aik khudayee mukhlooq aur insaan hai.

3) is baat se maloom hua keh nabi ko aaqaa kehna aur khud ko nabi ka ghulaam kehna quran ki roshni main drust baat nahin hai. nabi aur ummati ka taaluq ustaad aur shagird ka hai isi liye nabi ko ustaad yaa maaster kehne main koi harj nahin hai.

4) har shakhs khwaa woh nabi ho yaa aam aadmi sab khudaa ke diye hue dastoor ke paband hen kisi shakhs ke nahin. ashkhaas sirf aik doosre ke madadgaar hen dastoor ke mutaabiq.


5) khudaa ne insuaanu ko qwaaneen nahin diye balkeh qwaaneen banaane ke zaabte diye aur insaanu ko yeh haq diye hai keh woh khudayee maqsad yani islam ko aur apni zaroortun ko maddenazar rakh kar diye ge zaabtun ke mutaabiq qwaneen khud banaa len.

6) in baatun se yeh tayun karna mushkil nahin hai keh quran ki hesiyat kia hai aur ahadithe nabvi ki hesiyat kia hai.

7) Agar yeh reference framework ghalat hai to batao ke kese aur agar yeh drust hai he to is ki roshni main apni baat ko drust saabit kar ke batao sab baat yaheen khatam ho jaaye gi.

agar molavyun ne quran ko us ke samjhaane ke mutaabiq samjha hota to yeh sab masaail peda hi na hote magar in logoon ne deen ko apne maqaasid ke liye samjha aur apne maqaasid ke liye is ko badastoor istemal kiye jaa rehe hen aur awaam hai ke sochne ki takleef hi gawaara nahin karti to phir haal yahee hona tha jo ho raha hai. mullah bhi zaleel aur mullah ke peechhe chalne waale bhi, aur ummat par nazar dodaa kar dekh len.

zaroori hai keh ham log apne halaat ko drust karen aur woh tab tak nahin ho sakte jab tak ham mullah se islam ko samjhne ki koshish karen ge.

is liye zaroorat is baat ki hai keh ham khud islam ko samjhne ki koshish karen aur is ke liye mullah aur deegar ehle ilm se istifaada achhi baat hai. jab tak ham yeh rawish nahin apnayen ge ilm hamaare paas nahin aa sakta kyun ke ilm tang zehen logoon se bhaagta hai jo doosrun ki baat hi sunana gawaara nahin karte.

aik ham jaise log hen jo har shakhs ki baat sunana zaroori jaante hen kyunkeh ham ko har baat sunane se ilm ki koi na koi baat mil jaati hai aur aik aap jaise log hen keh pehle hi faila kar lete hen ham ko is aadmi ki baat ko sunana hai aur us aadmi ki baat ko nahin sunana. aise logoon ke paas ilm kahan se aaye ga jo khud par khud hi ilm ke darwaaze band kar len?

koi baat nahin sahib apni apni dhun main lage raho aur apne apne kiye ka khamyaaza bhugatate jao. khudaa ka qanoone fitrat atal hai aur kisi ka lihaaz nahin karta.

khudaa ham sab ki apne kalaam ko samjhne main apne kalaam hi se rahnumayee farmaaye.