11th Hour - 31st January 2012 - Zaid Hamid & Rauf Klasra - Who is the Source of Power??

[Ali raza babar]

Even a pimp is more shameful than rauf klasra

 

[Queue Farms]

Chalo kuch ****** billay no men land main mar rhy hayn . Main smjha tha Pakistani hayn

 

[propak]

Chalo kuch ****** billay no men land main mar rhy hayn . Main smjha tha Pakistani hayn

be careful with ur words... even there are fans of fatah-e-Hind in admin as well :13:

 

[mrk123]

Re: 11th Hour - 31st January 2012 - Zaid Hamid & Rauf Kalasra - Who is the Source of Power??

Wadaich Sahib, what you say doesn't make any sense. I know Zaid Hamid when He was Zaid Uzzaman and nazim of Jamiat in NED university in the early 80s. I strongly disagree with Zaid Hamid's world view - but last I checked I didn't have the membership card for SAFMA - I must admit that I am dont even know the made up terms that people use nowadays to label other muslims - When I grew up we knew of Sunnis and Shias and to some extent barelwis and deobandis (people interchanged terms of wahabis with deobandis in pakistan) and now we have a plethora of terms. I consider myself an observant and practicing muslim Alhamdolillah - Also, last I checked I wasn't working for the jewish lobby.

Moral of the post is that its easy to drop these terms and accuse everyone who disagrees with your views as an agent of this or that entity - but have you ever thought that normal people just like you could have difference of opinions - heck even brothers growing up in the same house have difference of opinions that doesnt automatically make them mossad or RAW agents.

In my opinion you are not doing any service to Islam by accusing me of all these associations which are not true.

Zaid is claiming that Gen. Pasha is the true defender of Pakistan - how does he know that? Is Pasha giving him briefings? How can we believe Zaid if he claims that Musharraf was responsible of inflicting lot of pain on Pakistan and had Kiyani as the ISI chief and then Kiyani appointed Pasha as the chief. Don't you think that in the military these postings happen only if you have similar viewpoints with the top leadership of the army?

Based on personal experience I think that Zaid is unstable and an attention seeker - or maybe he is suffering from a severe bout of self scrupulousness ...I don't know. But, he is not right most of the time and analysis is not spot on most of the time.

:mash: He has always been ... ... a person who is target of ridicule by the Satanic forces like Takfeeri's, SAFMA stooges, and the cheerleaders of jewish lobby in Pakistan.

 

[mrk123]

Re: 11th Hour - 31st January 2012 - Zaid Hamid & Rauf Kalasra - Who is the Source of Power??

I am amazed at the "Yateemana " attitude and lamest excuses trying to Defend the politicians by Mr. Klasra!

I don't think that his criticism was one sided. He did say that if there is blame to go around then military establishment of this country should be held accountable for its follies. Why generalize and stick to the point like Klasra was - his question was why not try the usurpers of the constitution? Why not try Yahya Khan? Why not try Zia was killing Bhutto? Why not try Musharraf for taking over and then abrogating the constitution?

I am all for trying the corrupt politicians but why do we have to consider the corrupt generals as holy cows? What about trying the military officers who took huge kickbacks in awarding contracts? Where are they now - sitting comfortably in the US or some other European countries. Why dont people scream about bringing them to justice?

I think Klasra is saying that its about time that we look around and see whats happening around us in the World - look at the example of Turkey - there the military used the same excuse that they are the guardians of the ideology of the country and look what happened there. They are now made to do what they are supposed to do and the country is growing faster than any other in the world and is an envy of Europe. In fact Turkey is happy that they didn't become part of EU or their economy would have been dragged down.

What is that such politicians and Klasara like journalists are trying to convey? Is it that politicians will say anything and promise anything to the people and other countries to come to power and later present excuses for their failures because they were doomed to fail already as they knew they did not intend to fulfill those promises in the first place. The promises were made to fool the nation only!

Pragmatically thinking for the politicians stance and trying to make excuses for them. Well,in this case then pragmatically speaking we should also try to make a similar case for the Establishment.

Klasra sahib has a misguided and narrow minded thinking.

Forget about the moral of the Army,please stop making rubbish excuses for your weakness! If the Army was responsible then they should have been taken to task!

I think you are being harsh on Klasra. He is not against the military - he is complaining about the establishment and its undue influence in Pakistan.
He is raising valid points - I don't think he is absolving the politicians of their misdeeds by saying that military should stick to its roles and responsibilities. He is rightly pointing out that no country in the world relies on their military or in fact there is no country where the military intereferes so much and has the last world in all matters. He is asking a valid question - either all the other countries of the world are doing something wrong or we are doing something wrong. Its time for a serious soul searching. We need to have a serious and open dialog about the role off the military - and if people desire that military should have a role to play then its should be included in the constitution - and their role should be given constitutional protection and should be open and not clandestine as it is today (though I am vehemently against ANY role of military in civilian affairs).

You also make a point that army should have taken to task - and how exactly do you propose doing this? When Nawaz tried to replace Musharraf after the Kargil debacle he overthrew Nawaz's government. You think that any misdeed by the military is ever properly investigated or anyone from the military is ever taken to task? This is Pakistan and it could be wishful thinking but certainly not reality.

Who was Mujeeb-ur-Rehman? a politician, Bhutto was a politician, Nassrullah was a politician and they were involved in the release of Mujeeb, to the detriment of this nation. Army and Ayub wanted a trial but these politicians did not so who was responsible?

Klasra sahib should also not blame the army or generals without evidence from the court!
I am also amazed at Klasra's thinking, he is trying to portray that people trust some one other than their own forces and try to portray them as innocent!

Do we need evidence from the court to prove that army generals abrogated the constitution and broke the laws of the land? Do we really need proof of what Musharraf did - or Ayub did or Yahya did or Zia did? Lets say bhutto case is re-tried in the SC and its proven that Bhutto was hanged wrongfully - do you think that SC will hold Zia responsible? Do you think he will be a posthumous court martial for zia? would all the medals and pension or benefits for zia would be stopped? That will not happen in Pakistan....

I dont think that suspecting people's patriotism just because they are questioning why the military establishment can't be taken to task in this country is a wise thing. In civilized societies and countries people are free to ask questions and an intelligent and reasonable response is needed and not the label of traitor or a charge of treason.

 

[Wadaich]

Re: 11th Hour - 31st January 2012 - Zaid Hamid & Rauf Kalasra - Who is the Source of Power??

Wadaich Sahib, what you say doesn't make any sense. I know Zaid Hamid when He was Zaid Uzzaman and nazim of Jamiat in NED university in the early 80s. I strongly disagree with Zaid Hamid's world view - but last I checked I didn't have the membership card for SAFMA - I must admit that I am dont even know the made up terms that people use nowadays to label other muslims - When I grew up we knew of Sunnis and Shias and to some extent barelwis and deobandis (people interchanged terms of wahabis with deobandis in pakistan) and now we have a plethora of terms. I consider myself an observant and practicing muslim Alhamdolillah - Also, last I checked I wasn't working for the jewish lobby.

Moral of the post is that its easy to drop these terms and accuse everyone who disagrees with your views as an agent of this or that entity - but have you ever thought that normal people just like you could have difference of opinions - heck even brothers growing up in the same house have difference of opinions that doesnt automatically make them mossad or RAW agents.

In my opinion you are not doing any service to Islam by accusing me of all these associations which are not true.

Zaid is claiming that Gen. Pasha is the true defender of Pakistan - how does he know that? Is Pasha giving him briefings? How can we believe Zaid if he claims that Musharraf was responsible of inflicting lot of pain on Pakistan and had Kiyani as the ISI chief and then Kiyani appointed Pasha as the chief. Don't you think that in the military these postings happen only if you have similar viewpoints with the top leadership of the army?

Based on personal experience I think that Zaid is unstable and an attention seeker - or maybe he is suffering from a severe bout of self scrupulousness ...I don't know. But, he is not right most of the time and analysis is not spot on most of the time.

Respected Bro. The one thing which I would say is I respect your opinion as U differ with some conviction.

 

[Star Gazer]

Re: 11th Hour - 31st January 2012 - Zaid Hamid & Rauf Kalasra - Who is the Source of Power??

I don't think that his criticism was one sided. He did say that if there is blame to go around then military establishment of this country should be held accountable for its follies. Why generalize and stick to the point like Klasra was - his question was why not try the usurpers of the constitution? Why not try Yahya Khan? Why not try Zia was killing Bhutto? Why not try Musharraf for taking over and then abrogating the constitution?

I am all for trying the corrupt politicians but why do we have to consider the corrupt generals as holy cows? What about trying the military officers who took huge kickbacks in awarding contracts? Where are they now - sitting comfortably in the US or some other European countries. Why dont people scream about bringing them to justice?

I think Klasra is saying that its about time that we look around and see whats happening around us in the World - look at the example of Turkey - there the military used the same excuse that they are the guardians of the ideology of the country and look what happened there. They are now made to do what they are supposed to do and the country is growing faster than any other in the world and is an envy of Europe. In fact Turkey is happy that they didn't become part of EU or their economy would have been dragged down.



I think you are being harsh on Klasra. He is not against the military - he is complaining about the establishment and its undue influence in Pakistan.
He is raising valid points - I don't think he is absolving the politicians of their misdeeds by saying that military should stick to its roles and responsibilities. He is rightly pointing out that no country in the world relies on their military or in fact there is no country where the military intereferes so much and has the last world in all matters. He is asking a valid question - either all the other countries of the world are doing something wrong or we are doing something wrong. Its time for a serious soul searching. We need to have a serious and open dialog about the role off the military - and if people desire that military should have a role to play then its should be included in the constitution - and their role should be given constitutional protection and should be open and not clandestine as it is today (though I am vehemently against ANY role of military in civilian affairs).

You also make a point that army should have taken to task - and how exactly do you propose doing this? When Nawaz tried to replace Musharraf after the Kargil debacle he overthrew Nawaz's government. You think that any misdeed by the military is ever properly investigated or anyone from the military is ever taken to task? This is Pakistan and it could be wishful thinking but certainly not reality.




Do we need evidence from the court to prove that army generals abrogated the constitution and broke the laws of the land? Do we really need proof of what Musharraf did - or Ayub did or Yahya did or Zia did? Lets say bhutto case is re-tried in the SC and its proven that Bhutto was hanged wrongfully - do you think that SC will hold Zia responsible? Do you think he will be a posthumous court martial for zia? would all the medals and pension or benefits for zia would be stopped? That will not happen in Pakistan....

I dont think that suspecting people's patriotism just because they are questioning why the military establishment can't be taken to task in this country is a wise thing. In civilized societies and countries people are free to ask questions and an intelligent and reasonable response is needed and not the label of traitor or a charge of treason.

I will restate my views as follows.

No one needs to explain what they THINK Klasra was saying, it is very clear that he has an agenda to divert the attention away from the current political set up towards the past and Army in particular.
He very conveniently forgets to mention that all these politicians let the Army chiefs go without any inquiry. If the army/Establishment is allowed to take up the power then who lets them go and more importantly WHY? Because the politicians are all involved in the game plan some how and they benefit from it directly.

As for replacing the army chief by Nawaz Sharif, think why Jahangir Kramat did not take up power? because he was removed properly.Even the PM has to follow the law and can not just remove some one because PM does not like the chief.There is a due process and that has to be followed if law is to be supreme.

Reality is what we make of it.Politicians come into power promising to uphold the constitution and do good for the country and then they are unable to do either,easy target is blame-it-on-the-establishment and get on with looting or protecting
the loot and transfer it to other countries! Either the politicians are incompetent or lying about the promises they make because they do know more about the situation.

On one hand you want justice and on the other hand you are not trusting the courts, so in effect you have already convicted! and this to my mind is not acceptable. If Bhutto was hanged by the court you do not believe it and then you want to punish or blame some one based on your observations or desires, how can that be acceptable? There has to be a method and the politicians are always telling us "Go to the courts to prove the corruption" If you do not trust the courts then you should also not trust the courts when they can not prove the corruption of others, and blame and punish the culprits in your judgement.
Everything that we see and hear is not the truth and since our knowledge and information is based on whatever journalists like Klasra want to bring out therefore we are not the right people to pass judgments.Let the courts decide that and we should do what we are supposed to do.

Again, tell me once more besides putting the blame on the establishment why do the politicians not try the generals in courts? Why did BB not open the case of ZAB,why she could not find the murderers of her brother while she was in power? Why the politicians do not want the courts to be free and why the politicians never opened up the media as Musharraf did?

Please do not misunderstand that I am advocating that Army should rule or that they have done the right thing merely stating that if the argument of need-of-the-time and ground-reality, is correct for politicians then it must be correct for the Establishment also.

If the courts were to try past MLA in the court then do you think ZAB,NS,AH and many many others will not be tried for colluding with them and share blame for unconstitutional acts? I personally think that courts should try all past MLA and then see all the cats that will come out of this bag. I am sure many journalists will also be a part of the game for they either did not report or reported wrongly.

This is not easy for any one and that is why it just goes around in circles for public consumption!

 

[mrk123]

Re: 11th Hour - 31st January 2012 - Zaid Hamid & Rauf Kalasra - Who is the Source of Power??

I believe I know what you are saying and I think that we are in violent agreement that ANYONE who breaks the law or transgress their powers/limits/authority should be brought to justice.

I agree with you that its a cabal - where military establishment, corrupt politicians and elites (including the feudals, big insdustrialists, mullahs) collude to play games with our destiny to further their own interests. I am in no way absolving any of the politicians - by all means if ANY of the politicians are guilty or EVEN MINOR crimes they should be punished and made examples of as our representatives should be held to a higher standard.

I agree that Zardari government let Musharraf go since they got into a power through an illegal deal and giving Musharraf immunity was part of the deal underwritten by the BIG brother and its lackeys (the so called brotherly countries). Zardari government should be held accountable for this misdeed along with many others. This also raises another point - the age old chicken or the egg dilemma - whether the repeated martial law and military's disproportional interference in the political affairs lead to politicians being corrupt or the corrupt politicians are the reason that martial laws are imposed on us.

If you look at Pakistan's politicians every coming generation is more corrupt than the previous ones - lets look at the current crop: asfandyar's father and grandfather were never accused of being corrupt, mufti mahmood father of fazlurrahman was never suspected of corruption, the so called ideological son of Bhutto is million times more corrupt than his father in law (in fact bhutto is accused of many things but not of corruption) - look at the chaudhries of gujrat they are considered corrupt where their fathers were not considered corrupt - not to say of anything about the sharifs since they are first generation of politicians. If you look at it all these politicians who got corrupt were nurtured or had blessing from the military dictators at one time or other. So these current politicians who are corrupt had their fathers and uncles who were not accused of being corrupt even in the dictatorship of Ayub and Yahya - the reason was that they were career politicians and not hereditary or opportunistic politicians of today and there were two other things - one was that they had not realised that the military will always have the last say and the second thing was that the military establishment had not learned yet how to get to these politicians and buy them out. They eventually figured out that almost everyone has a price

Now to your point of why the these bigwigs both on the military and civilian side are not tried - and the reason is that in some cases the judiciary is part of this game too - people say that the judiciary is independent and they have buried the necessity doctrine but I have my doubts about it.

I am of the opinion that Pakistan needs 3-4 cycles of completely clean elections under a completely independent election commission to clean up this mess - we need to do serious thinking about the roles and responsibilities and how we can prevent one institution from encroaching into domains that they have no business to. Until we have an open and sincere dialog to make things better this will keep happening - we will keep calling people names and labeling them as traitors.

I will restate my views as follows.

No one needs to explain what they THINK Klasra was saying, it is very clear that he has an agenda to divert the attention away from the current political set up towards the past and Army in particular.
He very conveniently forgets to mention that all these politicians let the Army chiefs go without any inquiry. If the army/Establishment is allowed to take up the power then who lets them go and more importantly WHY? Because the politicians are all involved in the game plan some how and they benefit from it directly.

As for replacing the army chief by Nawaz Sharif, think why Jahangir Kramat did not take up power? because he was removed properly.Even the PM has to follow the law and can not just remove some one because PM does not like the chief.There is a due process and that has to be followed if law is to be supreme.

Reality is what we make of it.Politicians come into power promising to uphold the constitution and do good for the country and then they are unable to do either,easy target is blame-it-on-the-establishment and get on with looting or protecting
the loot and transfer it to other countries! Either the politicians are incompetent or lying about the promises they make because they do know more about the situation.

On one hand you want justice and on the other hand you are not trusting the courts, so in effect you have already convicted! and this to my mind is not acceptable. If Bhutto was hanged by the court you do not believe it and then you want to punish or blame some one based on your observations or desires, how can that be acceptable? There has to be a method and the politicians are always telling us "Go to the courts to prove the corruption" If you do not trust the courts then you should also not trust the courts when they can not prove the corruption of others, and blame and punish the culprits in your judgement.
Everything that we see and hear is not the truth and since our knowledge and information is based on whatever journalists like Klasra want to bring out therefore we are not the right people to pass judgments.Let the courts decide that and we should do what we are supposed to do.

Again, tell me once more besides putting the blame on the establishment why do the politicians not try the generals in courts? Why did BB not open the case of ZAB,why she could not find the murderers of her brother while she was in power? Why the politicians do not want the courts to be free and why the politicians never opened up the media as Musharraf did?

Please do not misunderstand that I am advocating that Army should rule or that they have done the right thing merely stating that if the argument of need-of-the-time and ground-reality, is correct for politicians then it must be correct for the Establishment also.

If the courts were to try past MLA in the court then do you think ZAB,NS,AH and many many others will not be tried for colluding with them and share blame for unconstitutional acts? I personally think that courts should try all past MLA and then see all the cats that will come out of this bag. I am sure many journalists will also be a part of the game for they either did not report or reported wrongly.

This is not easy for any one and that is why it just goes around in circles for public consumption!

 

[Star Gazer]

Re: 11th Hour - 31st January 2012 - Zaid Hamid & Rauf Kalasra - Who is the Source of Power??

I believe I know what you are saying and I think that we are in violent agreement that ANYONE who breaks the law or transgress their powers/limits/authority should be brought to justice.

I agree with you that its a cabal - where military establishment, corrupt politicians and elites (including the feudals, big insdustrialists, mullahs) collude to play games with our destiny to further their own interests. I am in no way absolving any of the politicians - by all means if ANY of the politicians are guilty or EVEN MINOR crimes they should be punished and made examples of as our representatives should be held to a higher standard.

I agree that Zardari government let Musharraf go since they got into a power through an illegal deal and giving Musharraf immunity was part of the deal underwritten by the BIG brother and its lackeys (the so called brotherly countries). Zardari government should be held accountable for this misdeed along with many others. This also raises another point - the age old chicken or the egg dilemma - whether the repeated martial law and military's disproportional interference in the political affairs lead to politicians being corrupt or the corrupt politicians are the reason that martial laws are imposed on us.

If you look at Pakistan's politicians every coming generation is more corrupt than the previous ones - lets look at the current crop: asfandyar's father and grandfather were never accused of being corrupt, mufti mahmood father of fazlurrahman was never suspected of corruption, the so called ideological son of Bhutto is million times more corrupt than his father in law (in fact bhutto is accused of many things but not of corruption) - look at the chaudhries of gujrat they are considered corrupt where their fathers were not considered corrupt - not to say of anything about the sharifs since they are first generation of politicians. If you look at it all these politicians who got corrupt were nurtured or had blessing from the military dictators at one time or other. So these current politicians who are corrupt had their fathers and uncles who were not accused of being corrupt even in the dictatorship of Ayub and Yahya - the reason was that they were career politicians and not hereditary or opportunistic politicians of today and there were two other things - one was that they had not realised that the military will always have the last say and the second thing was that the military establishment had not learned yet how to get to these politicians and buy them out. They eventually figured out that almost everyone has a price

Now to your point of why the these bigwigs both on the military and civilian side are not tried - and the reason is that in some cases the judiciary is part of this game too - people say that the judiciary is independent and they have buried the necessity doctrine but I have my doubts about it.

I am of the opinion that Pakistan needs 3-4 cycles of completely clean elections under a completely independent election commission to clean up this mess - we need to do serious thinking about the roles and responsibilities and how we can prevent one institution from encroaching into domains that they have no business to. Until we have an open and sincere dialog to make things better this will keep happening - we will keep calling people names and labeling them as traitors.

I am trying to make many points all the time but in a nutshell,journalists,politicians and citizens of Pakistan need to learn to respect and uphold the law, voluntarily.

We have to recognize the malafide,misguided or plain ignorant demands/comments and arguments by the journalist particularly because they are trying to brain wash the public against some one.
Such journalists are trying to confuse the issues to the point that their agenda is successful. These journalist are not doing their noble duty either and thus are corrupt for spreading disinformation or unconfirmed information to say the least.

"Insaan kay jhoota honay kay liye itna kaafi hai keh voh suni sunaye baat billa tasdeek agay kar day" Inquiring is different,but spreading doubt and accusations is different. Only one Gheebat is allowed and that is against the Hukumraan, why? because people do not access to him and this could be a way of getting it to him, in my humble opinion.

If Klasra can not prove it in the court then he should ask for assistance from the court but take his case there.If this were the west and all the other countries, as he had mentioned he would have been sued and in jail at this point.

Army is from the same people that the rest of the nation is and is just as loyal to Pakistan as the rest of the nation is. As for politicians, well most of them are not, as more and more information comes out we will see how many got millions and billions of rupees in loan and then got them written off by the politicians or MLA. I personally know some who are not even on the current radar screens for most people, and I am sure many of us do that but since we have no means of proving it we are quietly bearing the Gunah and agonizing over it. It is the collective fault of the people also because we do not speak up against our friends,relatives,spouses and children, and we are to share the blame.

 

[InsafianPTI]

Honestly how did she really qualify for this job? just for the pretty face? why did she not go in modelling instead of this, she couldn't ask the questions or debate in a sequence with any of them.

what the hell this klasra was doing? telling us all the politicians are angels?

and why ZH was creaming so much and losing his temper, he could have said all that nicely with a bit of calm, with the use of better logic.

i was eating yesteday when this was on on tv, i found it hard to swallow my food while watching this. couldn't believe what was going on.

and in the end Award for the most dumbest anchor goes to..... sadaf!:biggthumpup:

 

[Amiable_Flame]

Defend karnay k naam per martial law laga tay hain aur phir bangladesh banwa tay hain, yehi hai inn ka defense?????? ya kabi defence k naam per american k saath mila kar pakistanion ko martay hain

Bhai Sahib, Our problem is that we have stopped reading, and have started watching, so what we watch and listen on this media, we beleive? aisa hi hay na ? Bhai History perho,(abh net pe perhnay na lag jana, go to library) you will come to know k Bangladesh jabh bana to kon kon kasoorvar tha.. No doubt Army was involved but app k ye payaray politions bhi sath hi thay, Chalo we all are human, and we do mistakes, but its not the problem, Problem is when we dont learn from our mistakes.
I am not here to defend gernails of army, but to Pakistan army.
Koi polition nahin shaheed hotay sarhad pe ja ker .. Army k jawan martay hain.. ye hamaray so called democratic politions ayashi ki zindagi hi guzartay hain hum jaise logon k tax pe ..
Mujay in ki koi harkat ya ayashi justify ker do ... ?? lambi behas ho jae gi .. But jitni marzi behas ker lo .. app Army ko kat'an compare nahin ker saktay in ghaleez politions k sath ..
But Still Black sheeps are every where..
In Politics every one is black sheep....​

​

 

[Hathamreborn]

Bhai Sahib, Our problem is that we have stopped reading, and have started watching, so what we watch and listen on this media, we beleive? aisa hi hay na ? Bhai History perho,(abh net pe perhnay na lag jana, go to library) you will come to know k Bangladesh jabh bana to kon kon kasoorvar tha.. No doubt Army was involved but app k ye payaray politions bhi sath hi thay, Chalo we all are human, and we do mistakes, but its not the problem, Problem is when we dont learn from our mistakes.
I am not here to defend gernails of army, but to Pakistan army.
Koi polition nahin shaheed hotay sarhad pe ja ker .. Army k jawan martay hain.. ye hamaray so called democratic politions ayashi ki zindagi hi guzartay hain hum jaise logon k tax pe ..
Mujay in ki koi harkat ya ayashi justify ker do ... ?? lambi behas ho jae gi .. But jitni marzi behas ker lo .. app Army ko kat'an compare nahin ker saktay in ghaleez politions k sath ..
But Still Black sheeps are every where..
In Politics every one is black sheep....​

​

yeah aap k jawan he inn saab politicians ko politics main lay hain during their illegel martial law, Zia nawaz, qureshi, galani,choudries, babar awan ko laya.... ayub bhutto aur ppp ko laya aur musharaf PMLq ko laya, jo inn ka sath day ga woh ghaddar hai qaum ka

baadtreen jamiriat main bhi pakistan nahi tota, lakin inn k time tot gaya, phir siachen bhi gaya, phir baluchistan main inhon nay nafratain phelaein......