سائنس اور کشف

[Knowledge Seeker]

Dear knowledge seeker,

I can understand you being cautious and avoiding denying following clear verses of Quraan, where it is clearly mentioned that our beloved Prophet Muhammad pbuh did not know ilm-e-Ghaib (the knowledge of unseen without any source).

It is better to stay quiet for you rather than trying to give false meaning to following verses.

No, you still don't understand and again you are running here and there. Try to understand the ethics of discussion. How can you expect me to respond to your last requests when you have been ignoring my requests in my past posts even before the post of your request? You should still be thankful that I have still promised you to explain the verses of Quran requested by you once you address and respond to my earlier questions raised in my old posts in this thread.

Please don't waste time now and respond to my earlier questions so I can also fulfill your request.

 

[Mughal1]

Dear friends, it is good to try and understand the message of the quran but that means working on each and every verse of the quran till it makes sense in a clear context.

Random verses with bad translations and interpretations are not helpful in understanding the quran properly.

Here argument is on word GHAIB. Word ghaib can be thought of opposite of HAAZIR. In this sense we are talking about presence and absence of something in some sense. GHAIB can also be thought of as opposite of ZAHIR. In that case it is in sense of visible and invisible or seen and unseen.

To determine the meanings of the quranic verses we need to discover purpose of information given regarding a matter and that means playing around with words till we have a consistent context of a verse in which a word is used then we need to look at all the verses around the verse in question and may have to read the whole surah very carefully to see what it might mean. Not only that but ultimately we must ensure the translation and interpretation we come up with is not contradicting any other verses in any other surahs in the quran.

It involves very hard work because we only have text of the quran to go by beyond any shadow of doubt. The meanings of the quranic text have been diluted by various forces through out centuries and need to be rediscovered or verified. This is why the need for new research and exploration on what the actual message is.

Had most of the people kept on going on islam as deen as the prophet left behind this situation would not have happened. It is very important to realise however that all the information the prophet left behind is all there but people have been adding things to it and so we the latter generations have become confused because of that. So in depth study of the quran is inevitable for anyone who really wishes to know islam properly. People who follow others blindly need to change for the better. Islam is not about blind following.

One only needs to read the story of bani israel about killing of a cow 2/67-72. This story is not about killing of a cow but sacred cow=set of make beliefs ie beliefs that mullahs of bani israel invented in forms of sacred jewish creeds that landed them into situations and circumstances they found themselves in. Prophet moses told them to give up this creed if you want to be a successful people. This story is very similar to ours today. Like them we too have so many invented creeds calling them islam and killing each other over these senseless disputes. This ruined israelites and us as well but are we ready to give up? Of course not. Even Israelite had be persuaded by moses and God from their self indulgence. But they did give it up once things became clear to them.


Here the point to remember is purpose of prophethood. No prophet was sent to prove he has powers to know the unseen. The prophet is a human being with parents and children. Allah sends messages to prophets to guide other people. Allah as we all know is invisible ie we cannot detect Allah by our human senses, however it is possible for Allah to convey his messages to his prophets.
The quran is one of those messages. It contains many predictions or forecasts as news of the unseen. Of course the quran is not the only message from Allah rather Allah inspires individuals as he pleases in private in various ways and so he did to all the prophets. One set of revelations is very special because it needs to be delivered to all concerned but the other is personal and private.

Beyond that there is nothing else as far as the quran is concerned. No where in the quran we find any prophet being told any useless information just to prove that a prophet can know the unseen supernaturally. Allah does not mention anywhere in the quran that he has given anyone any power to know or do anything supernatural. It is because some people have twisted make beliefs so they try to misuse the dictionary meanings of the words irrelevant to purpose.

There are many many makes beliefs that have no real basis in the quran. One has to ask oneself that by reading the quran one has become aware of a creator by name of Allah, who is all alone etc etc. All this is ghaib but we are all aware of it due to message of Allah. The same is true about the prophets of Allah ie they too became aware of thin gs by revelations of Allah. What Allah did not tell them they did not know nor were they able to find out. However we do not know what exactly Allah has told them other than what is in the quran and the authentic ahadith. So I see no sense in arguments about things beyond our knowledge. We should spend more time instead on trying to find out where have gone off the track that we are today where we are.

regards and all the best.

 

[Pakistani1947]

Dear friends, it is good to try and understand the message of the quran but that means working on each and every verse of the quran till it makes sense in a clear context.....

Dear Mughal1,

The main reason to educate my Muslim brothers is the fact if our beloved Prophet Muhammad pbuh were not given the Ilm e Gaib (the knowledge of unseen without any source) then how these Peer, Faqeer, Darwaish, Qalander, Must or Wali can claim that they have the knowledge of unseen.

Muslims are becoming weak and weaker due to division into many sects because they do not want to follow Quraan and authentic Haheeths and are blind following personalities other than Prophet Muhammad pbuh. If Muslims want to survive in this world with dignity and honor they need to come under one umbrella of Qur'aan and authentic Hadeeths.

Quran 72:26-27

عَالِمُ الْغَيْبِ فَلَا يُظْهِرُ عَلَىٰ غَيْبِهِ أَحَدًا-إِلَّا مَنِ ارْتَضَىٰ مِن رَّسُولٍ فَإِنَّهُ يَسْلُكُ مِن بَيْنِ يَدَيْهِ وَمِنْ خَلْفِهِ رَصَدًا​

Yusuf Ali 26-27: "He (alone) knows the Unseen, nor does He make any one acquainted with His Mysteries,- "Except an apostle whom He has chosen: and then He makes a band of watchers march before him and behind him,

وہ غیب جاننے والا ہے اپنے غائب کی باتوں پر کسی کو واقف نہیں کرتا- مگر اپنے پسندیدہ رسول کو پھراس کے آگے اور پیچھے محافظ مقرر کر دیتا ہے​

The knowledge of the unseen wholly rests with Allah: He does not give the whole of this knowledge to anyone. The Messenger by himself is no knower of the unseen, but when Allah chooses him to perform the mission of Prophethood, He grants him the knowledge of those of the unseen truths which He is pleased to grant.

Allah does not informs about unseen to anybody including Peer, Faqeer, Darwaish, Qalander, Must or Wali. The only exception is His messengers. Allah informs His messengers, whenever He wishes, about any fact in the past, present, or future but He never delegates this ilm علم (how to know unseen independently) to anybody including His messengers.

Following verses of Quraan are very clear, where it is clearly mentioned that our beloved Prophet Muhammad pbuh did not know ilm-e-Ghaib (the knowledge of unseen without any source).

Surah Araf 7 : 188 says

قُل لَّا أَمْلِكُ لِنَفْسِي نَفْعًا وَلَا ضَرًّا إِلَّا مَا شَاءَ اللَّهُ ۚ وَلَوْ كُنتُ أَعْلَمُ الْغَيْبَ لَاسْتَكْثَرْتُ مِنَ الْخَيْرِ وَمَا مَسَّنِيَ السُّوءُ ۚ إِنْ أَنَا إِلَّا نَذِيرٌ وَبَشِيرٌ لِّقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ​

Yusuf Ali 188: Say: "I have no power over any good or harm to myself except as Allah willeth. If I had knowledge of the unseen, I should have multiplied all good, and no evil should have touched me: I am but a warner, and a bringer of glad tidings to those who have faith."

کہہ دو میں اپنی ذات کے نفع و نقصان کا بھی مالک نہیں مگرجو الله چاہے اور اگر میں غیب کی بات جان سکتا تو بہت کچھ بھلائیاں حاصل کر لیتا اور مجھے تکلیف نہ پہنچتی میں تو محض ڈرانے والا اور خوشخبری دینے والا ہوں ان لوگوں کو جو ایمان دار ہیں​

The Quran says in Surah Anam 6 : 50

قُل لَّا أَقُولُ لَكُمْ عِندِي خَزَائِنُ اللَّهِ وَلَا أَعْلَمُ الْغَيْبَ وَلَا أَقُولُ لَكُمْ إِنِّي مَلَكٌ ۖ إِنْ أَتَّبِعُ إِلَّا مَا يُوحَىٰ إِلَيَّ ۚ قُلْ هَلْ يَسْتَوِي الْأَعْمَىٰ وَالْبَصِيرُ ۚ أَفَلَا تَتَفَكَّرُونَ​

Yusuf Ali 50: Say: "I tell you not that with me are the treasures of Allah, nor do I know what is hidden, nor do I tell you I am an angel. I but follow what is revealed to me." Say: "can the blind be held equal to the seeing?" Will ye then consider not?

کہہ دو میں تم سے یہ نہیں کہتا کہ میرے پاس الله کے خزانے ہیں اور نہ میں غیب کا علم رکھتا ہوں اور نہ یہ کہتا ہوں کہ میں فرشتہ ہوں میں تو صرف اس وحی کی پیروی کرتا ہوں جو مجھ پر نازل کی جاتی ہے کہہ دو کیا اندھا اور آنکھوں والا دونوں برابر ہو سکتے ہیں کیا تم غور نہیں کرتے​

 

[Mughal1]

Dear pakistani 1947, the quran is very clear that the quran itelf is information about the unseen which is conveyed by Allah to his messenger by way of revelations or in form of messages.

Only Allah is supernatural being and has such powers. Allah does not say in the quran anywhere that he has gifted such powers to anyone. He created all thing according to their own kinds eg chickens have properties or characteristics of chickens and humans have human characteristics and properties. It is not possible for humans to do anything that is beyond their human capacity or capability. This is the way Allah set up the system in his universe.

Unfortunately there are a lot of imported make beliefs that people have as islam. As you say, one can only share one's knowledge, it is up to others to educate themselves.

The purpose of prophethood is mentioned in the quran again and again ie to deliver the message of Allah in a helpful way for human beings for their own benefit but it is left up to individuals to benefit therefrom or not. Nowhere in the quran any prophet is told to impose the will of Allah on others against their will. Only the consequences have been made clear both in this world and the next.

In light of all this it serves no purpose that Allah should make some humans what they do not need to be because that serves no purpose in divine scheme of things.

The idea that if the prophet is not accepted a noori being or is not accepted present here there or everywhere or is not accepted to be knowing ghaib then that degrades him in any way is utter nonsense. In fact accepting silly make beliefs about the prophet is a dangerous idea in itself. Because it makes people rely on the prophet in time of need beyond his call of duty. Even Allah does not want us to rely upon him aimlessly in things that he has told us to get on with. It is because people have invented silly concepts that today whole ummah is paying the price.

This ummah has created a culture of holy man cult which has proven to be very dangerous. When enemies attack us we rather run for some holy men to supernaturally grant us victory so that we do not have to fight or invent weapons to defend ourselves. Only enemies of islam and muslims could have led ummah in this direction because it exposes the ummah to extreme danger.

The quran tells us to be better prepared against our enemies so that our preparations deters our enemies from attacking us. Look at us we are like sitting ducks, in our minds having thoughts that Allah will save us or he will send some savior for us. Well make beliefs only bring pain and suffering and destruction as we are told in stories of the prophets and their followers. When a nation does not do what it is told to do by Allah for its suvival then Allah lets it perish because of its own doing ie Allah lets a people go in the direction they decide to go eg if people work hard to progress and prosper they are taken in that direction and if they go for self destruction then that too is not obstructed.

It is therefore very important that we the ummah look in to the quran and see what it exactly says rather than listen to others and be happy on our make beliefs. It is very important to keep things real and not turn them into something unbelievable and therefore questionable. We need to remember that message is not only for us but others as well whom we need to convince by reason and common ground. Senseless ideas and beliefs cannot convince any sensible person let alone the educated population world wide.

regards and all the best.

 

[Pakistani1947]

Dear Mughal1,

Muslims are becoming weak and weaker due to division into many sects because they do not want to follow Quraan and authentic Haheeths and are blind following personalities other than Prophet Muhammad pbuh. They are consuming their energies to prove that their personality's views are correct. If Muslims want to survive in this world with dignity and honor they need to come under one umbrella of Qur'aan and authentic Hadeeths.