True Enemies of Pakistan? External or Internal???

next2saint

MPA (400+ posts)
come and think of it... how did Pakistan suffer more in collateral damage?

is it due to external wars (both with india so far)

or is it due to internal wars (ethinic, shia-sunni mullaism, gangsters (political), war on terror (our army on civil land) etc)

do we ever think before killing a person? killing an innocent person is like killing whole nation... Is brain-washing so easy that we dont like to do logical debates or find some political reasoning... or is it that raising a gun always makes sense for us??
 

jony1

MPA (400+ posts)
Actually almost every ruler of Pakistan after Qaide azam, were more or less intrested in power but not in pakistan. we ever would love our country we were not here at zero point today. We our leader are big enimy of our country. and then rest of course.
 

garry317

Banned
dont forget to add cia raw mossad and india.
they are necessary for this[hilar][hilar][hilar][hilar][hilar][hilar][hilar]
 

BanneD

MPA (400+ posts)
Bhai bahar walo ka to kaam he yah karna.. But actually we are destroying ourselves..!! chahay wo zionist hun freemasons hun ya agencies hon, they do what they want but we do what they want us to do!! So really I'veto say ke hum hi apnay aapko khud tabah kar rahay hen..
Jitni political parties zimmedaar hen utni he religious bhi!! Koi bhi shareef nhi he!!
 

jennyrock42

MPA (400+ posts)
Any one who is not loyal to pakistan and its territorial existence is enemy of pakistan , it does not matter if he is inside or ouside of pakistan.

Regards
 

junaids

MPA (400+ posts)
Bhai bahar walo ka to kaam he yah karna.. But actually we are destroying ourselves..!! chahay wo zionist hun freemasons hun ya agencies hon, they do what they want but we do what they want us to do!! So really I'veto say ke hum hi apnay aapko khud tabah kar rahay hen..
Jitni political parties zimmedaar hen utni he religious bhi!! Koi bhi shareef nhi he!!

Exactly! External forces can only have an impact on a nation, if it is weakened from within. A nation has nothing to fear except Mir Jafars within its ranks!
 

Unicorn

Banned
Good post very important questions. I don't think India should even be considered because both wars were started by Pakistan.

I don't think too many here will respond. Its easy to blame US,West, India and Jews.
 

modern fakir

MPA (400+ posts)
Does anything truthfull ever come out of your mouth ??..When you commit attrocities in Kashmir to this day ...and they were of much higher magintude back then...It was OUR MORAL AND ETHICAL responsibility to help any oppressed nation and specially if they are our Muslim Brothers ...and this will always continue to happen(bigsmile)

By the way ...Kashmir is not the only place our forces went for Islam ..we went to Jordan, syria and recently to Bahrain as well to defend our ideology and our people!

So you have no one but urself to blame !!...So fix ur attitude stop the attrocities and the 2000 men graves being found and you have
a solution !

Good post very important questions. I don't think India should even be considered because both wars were started by Pakistan.

I don't think too many here will respond. Its easy to blame US,West, India and Jews.
 

freshnkool

Minister (2k+ posts)
i dont know how people will react to my view point but i think our destriction is because of our own mir jafir and mir sadiq and 90 percent internal and 10 percent external.

in this this distruction evryone played their role, including army genrals, religious people and politicians

in my view what can be the dream of our enemy ( they would love to see that pakistani nation is not united, they do not progress, and do not become a strong country so that it becomes very easy for our enemies to influence pakistan)

now question is who worked hard to help our enemies acheive this agenda

1. army generals ( our genrals either killed the good politicans, or side lined them to the exted that many of them even left paksitan or became uneffective. for example choudhry mohmmad ali, hussain shaheed soharwardi, za bhutto, ashgar ali khan etc) ( and when army came to power itself they did not thing, they did not make police reforms, tax reforms, health care refroms, educational refroms, anti corruption machinisim, they did not build strong judiciory so that common people could get justice, or built strong election commission so that only good people get elected in a clean manner and nation could get good leadership)

2. religious class,

our religious class devided the nation in suni, wahavi, bralvi, shia , qadyani, etc ( shia and sunni, bralvi are living togather in muslim world from hundreds of years and the scholars always had diffrent views on diffrent things. but from past 20-30 years our religious class has taken taken these diffrence to a level that declaring eachother as kafir, and killing eachother has become common, thousands of people have died, because of it. bralvi do not trust wahabi, wahabi do not trust shia, shia do not trust sunni, and so on ( islam came to the world to unite people, in qruan Allah says orr Allah ki rasi ko mazboti say thamy rakho or tarfqy main maat paroo but our so called ullmas have dived the whole nation in tafaraq, they have plotted the minds of young people even and even our youth mostly is not ready to accept other peoples views, if someone says something against their view they act like those so called religious class and declare that person kafir, shia, salfi, agent bala bla bla and even many become ready to kill that person just because he said something which is not according to his view. its enough to show the strains and deep division in the socity)

3. politicians,

unfortunately, most of the politicans which came in to power were corrupt and naa ehaal, even both, rather than thinking with vision and building a strong nation with educational reforms, health care reforms, ecnomic and tax reforms, police reforms, they started treatng the nation like slaves, they built ther own factories, properties, and huge bank accounts in other countries and became puppet for the forigen countries,


soltuion is only one in my view.

1. ( imam abu hanefa, imam shamil, imam humble they all had diffrent views on religion but still they were good friends of eachother they had good relations and respect for eachother , none of them declare eachother kafir, ) so we their followers who follow any of the above sects of islam should be like them ok even if we disagree on few things but all shia, sunni, bralivi, hanfi, malki , shafi, all read same quran, belive on same one and only Allah and read same qalma and believe on same prophet so we should not follow any scholar at all who brings division in the nation.

2. we should not ever vote for any party whos leader is corrupt, and diving the nation by using ethnic cards, and we should alway remember no matter we r sindhi, punjabi, bloch, urdu speaking , pathan but above all we r muslims and pakistan , so only stand behind a leader who is sincer , and unite the nation and is not corrupt.

3. our army has also played their role in distruction of the nation. they kept on comming in power and pulling the legs of good leaders, they used all kind of tactics to achieve their own goal from disinfromation in the media to bribing the politicans to make puppet orgnization like IJI and rigging the elections, to bring their puppet politicans in power.

so we should be aware of the traps which some generals can set like they did in past.


be united, do not fight , do not take personal view religious or political differences to level of hate and killing, vote for honest and sincer leader. thats the only way forward, all other things will lead to distraction of the country and the nation.

regards,
 

OGMIOS

Citizen
The reason this has happened is due to our own lack of senses. If we had governed our nation in a proper manner and instead of being petty theives and criminals and murderers right from the bottom to the top. We have all forgotton ourselves and we have allowed our leaders to humilitate Pakistan on the world stage as the worst country to dwell in. Now we all know that this is not the case, Pakistan is a Self suffiient nation and we do not need anyone, to acheive this the people of Pakistan have to work hard and build the country. The old politicians are all withering away and the new stock of politicans are also not worthy of recognition. Imran Khan is the only person left who we can all hopefully rely on. VOTE for him.
 

modern fakir

MPA (400+ posts)
Brother cool you present some good arguments and I agree with some of them. But my only contention is the point where you blame the Generals for all the ills.

Given the fact that all the generals are not pious saints ..but judicial reforms, municipal reforms etc were also never the FIRST priority of any Civilian Government either.

On top of this we started off with a financially weak nation state ..where survival against a 10 times larger enemy who has already attacked and severed a part of us was the main priority . Add to this cake the icing of three wars and the resulting economic loss which followed as part and parcel of the wars.

Not to mention that when survival is required, defense capabilities of a nation have to catered to first ..hence so many martial laws had to be initiated. On the one hand the army had to do with the resources it had but even the priority of the generals was the indiginization of our defence programs and hence THIS IS where the focus was.

The missiles program, the nuclear program, the million man army etc

Agreed that no government civilian or military has focused on any socio-economic or educational developmental factors yet i do feel that NOW that point has arrived in the history of pakistan ..after we are enroute to acheiving a good sense of self sufficieny in defense. I think now the time has come where future goverments will focus on social economic and developmental factors after we have secured our future militarily.

This the reason i dont hold the army generals only in contempt ..but rather support the good they have done for the nation as a whole. The good civilian leadership will follow shortly
!


i dont know how people will react to my view point but i think our destriction is because of our own mir jafir and mir sadiq and 90 percent internal and 10 percent external.

in this this distruction evryone played their role, including army genrals, religious people and politicians

in my view what can be the dream of our enemy ( they would love to see that pakistani nation is not united, they do not progress, and do not become a strong country so that it becomes very easy for our enemies to influence pakistan)

now question is who worked hard to help our enemies acheive this agenda

1. army generals ( our genrals either killed the good politicans, or side lined them to the exted that many of them even left paksitan or became uneffective. for example choudhry mohmmad ali, hussain shaheed soharwardi, za bhutto, ashgar ali khan etc) ( and when army came to power itself they did not thing, they did not make police reforms, tax reforms, health care refroms, educational refroms, anti corruption machinisim, they did not build strong judiciory so that common people could get justice, or built strong election commission so that only good people get elected in a clean manner and nation could get good leadership)

2. religious class,

our religious class devided the nation in suni, wahavi, bralvi, shia , qadyani, etc ( shia and sunni, bralvi are living togather in muslim world from hundreds of years and the scholars always had diffrent views on diffrent things. but from past 20-30 years our religious class has taken taken these diffrence to a level that declaring eachother as kafir, and killing eachother has become common, thousands of people have died, because of it. bralvi do not trust wahabi, wahabi do not trust shia, shia do not trust sunni, and so on ( islam came to the world to unite people, in qruan Allah says orr Allah ki rasi ko mazboti say thamy rakho or tarfqy main maat paroo but our so called ullmas have dived the whole nation in tafaraq, they have plotted the minds of young people even and even our youth mostly is not ready to accept other peoples views, if someone says something against their view they act like those so called religious class and declare that person kafir, shia, salfi, agent bala bla bla and even many become ready to kill that person just because he said something which is not according to his view. its enough to show the strains and deep division in the socity)

3. politicians,

unfortunately, most of the politicans which came in to power were corrupt and naa ehaal, even both, rather than thinking with vision and building a strong nation with educational reforms, health care reforms, ecnomic and tax reforms, police reforms, they started treatng the nation like slaves, they built ther own factories, properties, and huge bank accounts in other countries and became puppet for the forigen countries,


soltuion is only one in my view.

1. ( imam abu hanefa, imam shamil, imam humble they all had diffrent views on religion but still they were good friends of eachother they had good relations and respect for eachother , none of them declare eachother kafir, ) so we their followers who follow any of the above sects of islam should be like them ok even if we disagree on few things but all shia, sunni, bralivi, hanfi, malki , shafi, all read same quran, belive on same one and only Allah and read same qalma and believe on same prophet so we should not follow any scholar at all who brings division in the nation.

2. we should not ever vote for any party whos leader is corrupt, and diving the nation by using ethnic cards, and we should alway remember no matter we r sindhi, punjabi, bloch, urdu speaking , pathan but above all we r muslims and pakistan , so only stand behind a leader who is sincer , and unite the nation and is not corrupt.

3. our army has also played their role in distruction of the nation. they kept on comming in power and pulling the legs of good leaders, they used all kind of tactics to achieve their own goal from disinfromation in the media to bribing the politicans to make puppet orgnization like IJI and rigging the elections, to bring their puppet politicans in power.

so we should be aware of the traps which some generals can set like they did in past.


be united, do not fight , do not take personal view religious or political differences to level of hate and killing, vote for honest and sincer leader. thats the only way forward, all other things will lead to distraction of the country and the nation.

regards,
 

freshnkool

Minister (2k+ posts)
Brother cool you present some good arguments and I agree with some of them. But my only contention is the point where you blame the Generals for all the ills.

Given the fact that all the generals are not pious saints ..but judicial reforms, municipal reforms etc were also never the FIRST priority of any Civilian Government either.

On top of this we started off with a financially weak nation state ..where survival against a 10 times larger enemy who has already attacked and severed a part of us was the main priority . Add to this cake the icing of three wars and the resulting economic loss which followed as part and parcel of the wars.

Not to mention that when survival is required, defense capabilities of a nation have to catered to first ..hence so many martial laws had to be initiated. On the one hand the army had to do with the resources it had but even the priority of the generals was the indiginization of our defence programs and hence THIS IS where the focus was.

The missiles program, the nuclear program, the million man army etc

Agreed that no government civilian or military has focused on any socio-economic or educational developmental factors yet i do feel that NOW that point has arrived in the history of pakistan ..after we are enroute to acheiving a good sense of self sufficieny in defense. I think now the time has come where future goverments will focus on social economic and developmental factors after we have secured our future militarily.

This the reason i dont hold the army generals only in contempt ..but rather support the good they have done for the nation as a whole. The good civilian leadership will follow shortly
!

i did not defend i clearly mentioned here that civial leadership also as much part of the crime as others are

but on gernals i have few questions,

1. why they kicked out or side linded the real leadership which i mentioned ???? people like choundhry mohmmad ali, hussain shaheed soharwardi, ( even gernals or theri worst enemies do not call them corrupt or incompitant if we had that kind of leadership we would not have many of the problem because of which gernerals claim that they had to come in power to fix.) secondly even people like ashgar khan his legs were pulled and who sidelined mohtrma fatimah jinna??? was she corrupt, was she anti paksitan? was visionless? and now on wars with india ( gen. jamsheed, air marshal asghar ali khan so many other credible gens claimed that atleast 2 of the wars 65 and kargil were our own adventures they were not imposed by india.) and many even claim 71 lost of bangladesh our own gernals and politicans played the main role in it.

so please brother do not get blined by the fake propoganda, i am not defending anyone its true that everyone played their role to destroy the nation. gernals, mullas, politicans yes it can be debated who played big role and who played less role but the fact of the matter is they are all culprits, some are bigger eveils and some are small thats the only difference.

but we must stop defending even the smaller evils, to make paksitan a good strong country we need no compromise in any shape, only a true, honest, visionary and sincere leader nothing else,
 
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mjma6

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Puppets, corrupt generals and voters itself who vote to looters and those who do not go to polling stations.
then comes the external elements, some you know want to cut China's hands by destroying Pakistan.
 

Unicorn

Banned
Does anything truthfull ever come out of your mouth ??..When you commit attrocities in Kashmir to this day ...and they were of much higher magintude back then...It was OUR MORAL AND ETHICAL responsibility to help any oppressed nation and specially if they are our Muslim Brothers ...and this will always continue to happen(bigsmile)

By the way ...Kashmir is not the only place our forces went for Islam ..we went to Jordan, syria and recently to Bahrain as well to defend our ideology and our people!

So you have no one but urself to blame !!...So fix ur attitude stop the attrocities and the 2000 men graves being found and you have
a solution !

Kashmir is a Part of India and those who can not come to terms with it can leave. Kashmir is an internal matter of India we have defended it twice before you failed both times. We fought of your terrorism against India and will continue to fight. We will die or kill in thousands to defend it.

You just have to go to Afghanistan or Mongolia and find a Babaar to help you out. So far when your army has failed to conquer an ant hill, when it does it will be a big international news, to its credit it did conquered Pakistan four times.
 
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PkRevolution

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Kashmir is a Part of India and those who can not come to terms with it can leave. Kashmir is an internal matter of India we have defended it twice before you failed both times. We fought of your terrorism against India and will continue to fight. We will die or kill in thousands to defend it.

You just have to go to Afghanistan or Mongolia and find a Babaar to help you out. So far when your army has failed to conquer an ant hill, when it does it will be a big international news, to its credit it did conquered Pakistan four times.


I must correct you: Kashmir was never a part of India, india has occupied Kashmir and Kashmiris are suffering under your human rights violation. Recent Mass grabs found in Kashmir are proves of India's democracy.

Indian terrorism in pakistan is not hidden. Funding of Tehrike Taliban Pakistan, involvement in Balochistan Anarchy, terrorist trainings camps in Afghanistan, actually Indian is a state which believes on terrorism.

Don't forget we did not answer yet.
 

PkRevolution

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
i did not defend i clearly mentioned here that civial leadership also as much part of the crime as others are

but on gernals i have few questions,

1. why they kicked out or side linded the real leadership which i mentioned ???? people like choundhry mohmmad ali, hussain shaheed soharwardi, ( even gernals or theri worst enemies do not call them corrupt or incompitant if we had that kind of leadership we would not have many of the problem because of which gernerals claim that they had to come in power to fix.) secondly even people like ashgar khan his legs were pulled and who sidelined mohtrma fatimah jinna??? was she corrupt, was she anti paksitan? was visionless? and now on wars with india ( gen. jamsheed, air marshal asghar ali khan so many other credible gens claimed that atleast 2 of the wars 65 and kargil were our own adventures they were not imposed by india.) and many even claim 71 lost of bangladesh our own gernals and politicans played the main role in it.

so please brother do not get blined by the fake propoganda, i am not defending anyone its true that everyone played their role to destroy the nation. gernals, mullas, politicans yes it can be debated who played big role and who played less role but the fact of the matter is they are all culprits, some are bigger eveils and some are small thats the only difference.

but we must stop defending even the smaller evils, to make paksitan a good strong country we need no compromise in any shape, only a true, honest, visionary and sincere leader nothing else,

Generals did think for the nations defence even there were few corrupt generals among them. Pakistan Allhamdulillah is Atomic Power. Indians can not sleep when they think about it. Just read unicorns post and you will know what i mean. What did civilian govt. do?? What?? answer is nothing. Civilian Govt. destroyed Pakistan so far.

But we never gave up. InshaAllah Pakistan is not far from that day when best pakistani brains will lead this country. We have huge potential Allhamdulillah.

Best professional Army of the world
Best Secret Agency
and Best political party is on the way.

People who harmed our country are identified and their days are counted.

RAW, Mosad and CIA are failed in their attempts harming our country.

It is Allah's grace with us.

Nasrun Minal la he wa fathun Qarib
 
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