Ertugrul was a Pagan

Vitamin_C

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)


According to Historians, Ertugrul wasnt even a Muslim. His decadents later accepted Islam for political reasons. Its not going to make much of a difference though because reality is a word that doesn't exist for most Pakistanis.
 
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Rambler

Senator (1k+ posts)
This is so stupid. The dynasty's seeds were sown by Ertughrul and if he was not a Muslim, historical record must have shown the conversion of his lineage sometime later. X-Muslim - what can you expect from these creatures of the dark who were so cursed as to leave the religion of light and truth!
 

Vitamin_C

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
According to Historians, Osman was the first Muslim in that lineage.

This is so stupid. The dynasty's seeds were sown by Ertughrul and if he was not a Muslim, historical record must have shown the conversion of his lineage sometime later. X-Muslim - what can you expect from these creatures of the dark who were so cursed as to leave the religion of light and truth!
 

Vitamin_C

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
There is a book on it called "The History of the Ottoman Empire" by Caroline Finkel. If you are interested in that history, that book would be a good starting point.

Oh was he? So how did he come to accept Islam. Just saying something does not make it to be true !
 

Aslan

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
According to Historians, Ertugrul wasnt even a Muslim. His decadents later accepted Islam for political reasons. Its not going to make much of a difference though because reality is a word that doesn't exist for most Pakistanis.


You keep peddling lies. No historian can prove Ertugrul was not a Muslim. Ethnic Turks first embraced Islam when they met the expanding Arab empire in modern day Iran (and slightly to the north and east). This was where the Turks had settled, and the Arabs were conquering in the late seventh, and eight centuries A.D.Ertugrul live in 13th century and by then many Turkic people had accepted Islam.
My questions is why is your backside on fire?.Get a a creaming if your backside is itching.
 

Rambler

Senator (1k+ posts)
There is a book on it called "The History of the Ottoman Empire" by Caroline Finkel. If you are interested in that history, that book would be a good starting point.
I'm interested in too many things to be interested in history now and who cares. You just told me that Osman was definitely a Muslim (The story of him becoming a Muslim must have been recorded as founder of an empire?). Lets say its true that Ertughrul was not a Muslim; than what? He still is a hero as his lineage brought the Muslim civilisation on the forefront of the world stage. Nothing for a Lanati X-Muslim to be jumping about. BTW even if you are non-muslim or an X muslims who left Islam for whatever reason and are sincere and truthful to yourself, you cannot discard and disapprove of the whole Muslim civilisation. That is where the crookedness of the heart lies.
 

Vitamin_C

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
If your son does something, it doesnt make you a hero, it makes your son a hero. And if you do something bad it doesnt make your son a villain, it just makes you a villain.

Ertgurul could have been a hero or villian himself in real life but we cant say it because there is no mention of him in historical books (which means he wasnt important enough to be mentioned). Based on history of those tribes historians say he was most likely a pagan.


I'm interested in too many things to be interested in history now and who cares. You just told me that Osman was definitely a Muslim (The story of him becoming a Muslim must have been recorded as founder of an empire?). Lets say its true that Ertughrul was not a Muslim; than what? He still is a hero as his lineage brought the Muslim civilisation on the forefront of the world stage. Nothing for a Lanati X-Muslim to be jumping about. BTW even if you are non-muslim or an X muslims who left Islam for whatever reason and are sincere and truthful to yourself, cannot discard and disapprove of the whole Muslim civilisation. That is where the crookedness of the heart lies.
 

Vitamin_C

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
You cannot group all turks under one name of "ethnic Turks" and then make a general statement on them.

There were many different Turkic and Mongol tribes and they accepted/rejected Islam at different times over many centuries independently depending on which tribe we are talking about.

You obviously have a very limited understanding of this history and you are no where near the level of arguing against phd historians on this topic.


You keep peddling lies. No historian can prove Ertugrul was not a Muslim. Ethnic Turks first embraced Islam when they met the expanding Arab empire in modern day Iran (and slightly to the north and east). This was where the Turks had settled, and the Arabs were conquering in the late seventh, and eight centuries A.D.Ertugrul live in 13th century and by then many Turkic people had accepted Islam.
My questions is why is your backside on fire?.Get a a creaming if your backside is itching.
 

Rambler

Senator (1k+ posts)
If your son does something, it doesnt make you a hero, it makes your son a hero. And if you do something bad it doesnt make your son a villain, it just makes you a villain.

Ertgurul could have been a hero or villian himself in real life but we cant say it because there is no mention of him in historical books (which means he wasnt important enough to be mentioned). Based on history of those tribes historians say he was most likely a pagan.
He laid the seeds of a Muslim empire. For me its enough to make him a hero and this is when I am taking your intrepretation of history. There is a much higher probability of him being a muslim just by the logic I gave you earlier and I am not even going into actual reading of the history.
 

Cheeko

Minister (2k+ posts)
LOL this guy in the video is so stupid that he actually believes that beghairat kazzab Imran Niazi and his pujaris are muslims.

PS: Ottoman Empire comprised of tyrant and barbaric rulers. Doesn’t matter if they were Muslims or not.
 

Vitamin_C

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Its not logic its wishful thinking. You want him to be a Muslim. But history is not based on your personal biases its based on the best available historical evidence. We do not have detailed reports of Ertugruls life but based on other historical evidence historians say Osman became a Muslim and changed his name to Osman later in his life. His tribe was pagan which means Ertugrul was most probably a pagan.

He laid the seeds of a Muslim empire. For me its enough to make him a hero and this is when I am taking your intrepretation of history. There is a much higher probability of him being a muslim just by the logic I gave you earlier and I am not even going into actual reading of the history.
 

taban

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
ارظغرل مسلمان تھا یا نہیں تھا مگر ان دہریوں کو اس نے ابھی تک ڈنڈا دیا ہوا ہے جو ان میں پھنس چکا ہے اور یہ اسکے نام پہ وڈیو بنا کے پیسے کما رہے ہیں انکا بس نہیں چلتا کہ کسی طرح سارے پاکستانیوں کو کرسچئیں بنا دیں تاکہ انکے آقا ان سے خوش ہو کر انہیں نواز دیں
 
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