Zia-ul-Haq

furry87

Senator (1k+ posts)
We are told that Ziaul Haq, yes the very same Ziaul Haq at whose door the responsibility of unleashing the demons responsible for most of our present travails can and should be placed, is to be excised from the nations history by his name being struck off the list of Pakistani presidents.

One has to immediately ask if this act will also take away the spectre of religious extremism that the man gave birth to and nurtured until it became a scourge that we Pakistanis have to face every moment of our lives; or that the baradari (clan) politics he (re-)introduced will simply go away; or that it will automatically rid the country of his horrendous Hudood Ordinances under which tens of poor women have been horribly violated and hundreds of our minority brothers and sisters have been murdered and tortured and jailed?

No, a thousand times no. Instead of removing his name from the squalid history of our poor country, Ziaul Haqs name must be kept alive so that succeeding generations are reminded of the tyrant and his doings that so completely destroyed Pakistan and its social fabric.

Statues of the dictator, resplendent in his generals uniform gongs, ribbons, medals, sashes, toshdans and all, should be raised in all the major cities of Pakistan with his crimes against the people inscribed in large letters on marble plaques at the base of the statues.

Rather than forgetting the man, the government should periodically run paid advertisements in the newspapers and on television stations enumerating his acts that have brought the country to near ruin.

Indeed, these ads could be run immediately after another heartrending bombing carried out by the religious terrorists who can rightly be called Zias grandchildren; bombings that kill and maim and terrorise even women and children. No, friends, we must never forget the dictator and what he did to us.

On to other matters; first to the NRO. Enough already, as the Americans say. I was absolutely against the NRO when it was first mooted as a way that would facilitate Benazirs return to the country, as also the return of others from her party who had been charged with wrongdoing by Musharrafs dictatorship.

It was akin to throwing the dictator a lifeline I thought, when he was weakened by the lawyers movement against the dismissal of the superior judiciary. In hindsight I was wrong: if there hadnt been an NRO, Musharraf would still have been sitting at the top of the heap; the political parties would still have been out in the cold, and let alone being restored, the judges would still have been under house arrest.

No NRO, no giving up his uniform (his second skin, remember?), no political parties; no political parties, no elections; no elections, no parliament; no parliament, no political manoeuvring; no political manoeuvring, no long march; no long march, no restoration of judges, and so on and on and on.

Seriously, does anyone think that Musharraf could have been dislodged by the lawyers backed by a handful of civil society? On deep reflection, I think not. So, enough already on the NRO. The point has been made that it was a bad law: can we just let go of it now; give elected people the chance to complete their terms and the people the chance to vote them out in the next election? As I have said before, if this government does not complete its term, neither will the next.

And another thing. Will everyone stop hounding the so-called NRO beneficiaries? Everyone and Charlies Aunt knows that in most cases trumped-up charges were made against their detractors by successive Pakistani governments, dictatorships and others.

However, if those who are demanding action now that the NRO has been declared null and void feel they must go on regardless, it is their moral duty to also demand that the armed forces and the judiciary be made accountable under the same accountability laws too. Let us have no holy cows.

Enough already on the Kerry-Lugar Bill, now law, too. Look at it this way: since the army high command which started it all (furious was a term used to describe the feelings of the brass hats), has just been to Washington D.C. and sued (as in beg for something) for this and that and the other, is it not time that others who thought that the Kerry-Lugar law took away Pakistans sovereignty stopped criticising it? It is a perfectly worded law, may it live long.

A word on the judicial crisis. The slapping of a senior civil judge (in court, mark) by a lawyer in Faisalabad, and before that the thrashing of journalists and police officials by other lawyers in the Lahore courts, should make it very clear to My Lords of the superior judiciary that the sense of conquering all before them is turning very ugly indeed.

It ought to be realised that lawyers are not storm-troopers, ready to attack all comers, even judges sitting on the bench, at the slightest provocation. This will not happen unless it is realised that lawyers, as also the judiciary, are mortal too, that they are not all-powerful. And this will not happen unless the judiciary sets parameters for itself and says clearly that there are matters of governance that should be left to the elected parliament and the government that comes from parliament.

The judiciary should look back and see the trials and tribulations it has come through, the many ups and downs it has seen, mainly downs. It should look back and see the many episodes that did not exactly paint it in a kindly light, more than anything else the judicial murder of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto at the behest of the man we must never forget.

It needs to understand more than anything else that it was only a civilian dispensation that gave it back the freedom so cruelly taken from it by an army dictator. The very best start to this will be My Lord the Chief Justice immediately recusing himself and his office from any committee set up to appoint judges. If he sends the message that parliament, which embodies the peoples will is supreme, he will go down in history as a truly great man.

[email protected]
 

barhaich

Senator (1k+ posts)
Musharraf's cowardly decisions unleashed terror in Pakistan.

May Allah have mercy on Zia-ul-Haqs soul.
 

furry87

Senator (1k+ posts)
barhaich said:
Musharraf's cowardly decisions unleashed terror in Pakistan.

May Allah have mercy on Zia-ul-Haqs soul.

Both are the same, one an extremist and the other a puppet who traded the lives of our brothers and sisters for the price of a shoe string.
 
A

abbasiali

Guest
furry87 said:
barhaich said:
Musharraf's cowardly decisions unleashed terror in Pakistan.

May Allah have mercy on Zia-ul-Haqs soul.

Both are the same, one an extremist and the other a puppet who traded the lives of our brothers and sisters for the price of a shoe string.
Sorry to say, you cannot compare Musharaf to Ziaulhaq, Zia left behind him no controversy, He was the conquerer of Afghanistan, and if he wouldn't be assassin at that time, he would had had an undestroyable confederation of Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran, but it was an unfortunate event, western came to know about this move and they found it better for them to assassin. Imagine how would it worked, if Zia would had had that move successable.

No match between a puppet and a courageous Leader.

What could you expect from these corrupt ruthless and insane politicians, they cannot do anything better for Pakistanis, but worst you will find from them now.

But for sure Nation deserve same kind of Leaders, the same behavior they themselves have. CORRUPT [funnny] [anger] [wall]
 

furry87

Senator (1k+ posts)
abbasiali said:
furry87 said:
barhaich said:
Musharraf's cowardly decisions unleashed terror in Pakistan.

May Allah have mercy on Zia-ul-Haqs soul.

Both are the same, one an extremist and the other a puppet who traded the lives of our brothers and sisters for the price of a shoe string.
Sorry to say, you cannot compare Musharaf to Ziaulhaq, Zia left behind him no controversy, He was the conquerer of Afghanistan, and if he wouldn't be assassin at that time, he would had had an undestroyable confederation of Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran, but it was an unfortunate event, western came to know about this move and they found it better for them to assassin. Imagine how would it worked, if Zia would had had that move successable.

No match between a puppet and a courageous Leader.

What could you expect from these corrupt ruthless and insane politicians, they cannot do anything better for Pakistanis, but worst you will find from them now.

But for sure Nation deserve same kind of Leaders, the same behavior they themselves have. CORRUPT [funnny] [anger] [wall]

I just have one simple question against ur tall claims , is music haram ?? i will however change my ealier statement, musharraf cannot be half the man zia was.
 

Chaudhry_1960

Minister (2k+ posts)
Zia ul haq is responsible for religious and other extremism.

Zia created MQM
Zia created/helped Jeay Sindh Tehreek
Zia funded many religious movements
 
A

abbasiali

Guest
furry87 said:
abbasiali said:
furry87 said:
barhaich said:
Musharraf's cowardly decisions unleashed terror in Pakistan.

May Allah have mercy on Zia-ul-Haqs soul.

Both are the same, one an extremist and the other a puppet who traded the lives of our brothers and sisters for the price of a shoe string.
Sorry to say, you cannot compare Musharaf to Ziaulhaq, Zia left behind him no controversy, He was the conquerer of Afghanistan, and if he wouldn't be assassin at that time, he would had had an undestroyable confederation of Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran, but it was an unfortunate event, western came to know about this move and they found it better for them to assassin. Imagine how would it worked, if Zia would had had that move successable.

No match between a puppet and a courageous Leader.

What could you expect from these corrupt ruthless and insane politicians, they cannot do anything better for Pakistanis, but worst you will find from them now.

But for sure Nation deserve same kind of Leaders, the same behavior they themselves have. CORRUPT [funnny] [anger] [wall]

I just have one simple question against ur tall claims , is music haram ?? i will however change my ealier statement, musharraf cannot be half the man zia was.
Yes Music is "HARAM"
 
A

abbasiali

Guest
Chaudhry_1960 said:
Zia ul haq is responsible for religious and other extremism.

Zia created MQM
Zia created/helped Jeay Sindh Tehreek
Zia funded many religious movements
Zia bring Hijab on Pakistani women's head, in his era, correct?
 

HaqParast

Citizen
abbasiali said:
Chaudhry_1960 said:
Zia ul haq is responsible for religious and other extremism.

Zia created MQM
Zia created/helped Jeay Sindh Tehreek
Zia funded many religious movements
Zia bring Hijab on Pakistani women's head, in his era, correct?

Not correct
Those Pakistani women understood their duties wore hijabs before ZIA and they still take it even after ZIA.

Those who don't want , no one can compel them to do it.

Practically, Pakistan is not an ideal Islamic welfare state (on the contrary, in the constitution yes). Once it gets that status then yes it will be the responsibility of the Khalifa and Qazi to make everyone to lead thier lives according to the Islamic Shariah. But not now. Ahtemam -e- Hujjat is compulsary my friend.

Remember! Mehtab Channa refused to take dopatta on her head and left a popular TV show.It happened on Zia's era.

Please don't pass on any fatwa against me as I know I am a Rasikhul Aqeeda Musalman with a pragmatic views. Pragmatism is a essence of Islam.
 

Star Gazer

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Gen. Zia was no angel just as none of the so called democratic leaders has been.
Zia made some mistakes and payed for them with his life. What he has achieved for the country is much more than any of the politicians combined.
Jeay sindh existed even before his time. as for mqm they deny the origins of its foundations at the hands of Zia, so who would you believe? and what is the proof other than hearsay? proofs become important when we are talking about historical facts and when we are trying to clear doubts. our wishes are not proofs, neither for us nor for others,they are just our wishes!
The lists of the sikhs was handed over to the indian government by BB and she also acknowleged it later on the occasion of the visit by rajiv gandhi for the SAARC summit in 1988/89.
How many of the current so called leaders had the courage to ask him to step down for the sake of democracy instead they were with him till the very end. Yes he was a martial law administrator but then so was ZA Bhutto! what do you have to say to that!
If your argument for ZA Bhutto is 'need of the hour' then same will be the argument for all the martial laws. Why is not possible for people to move on?
Please understand that there are some very intelligent and perhaps misguided or payed agents who keep dragging us back to history so that we can not think about the future or the present for our present is constantly becoming our past.
Let the issues of history be food for the historians,let them do their work and let us do ours by thinking about the future, for digging into past will most likely do nothing for our future.
 

HaqParast

Citizen
Star Gazer said:
Let the issues of history be food for the historians,let them do their work and let us do ours by thinking about the future, for digging into past will most likely do nothing for our future.
Very easy to say to forget the history. But history is always there to teach us and not to do the mistakes again.
How about if Zia still lives in the hearts of Nawaz Sharif, JI and Talibans? Do we forget them? as per you say, we should forget the history?
 

ali 2003

New Member
abbasiali said:
furry87 said:
barhaich said:
Musharraf's cowardly decisions unleashed terror in Pakistan.

May Allah have mercy on Zia-ul-Haqs soul.

Both are the same, one an extremist and the other a puppet who traded the lives of our brothers and sisters for the price of a shoe string.
Sorry to say, you cannot compare Musharaf to Ziaulhaq, Zia left behind him no controversy, He was the conquerer of Afghanistan, and if he wouldn't be assassin at that time, he would had had an undestroyable confederation of Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran, but it was an unfortunate event, western came to know about this move and they found it better for them to assassin. Imagine how would it worked, if Zia would had had that move successable.

No match between a puppet and a courageous Leader.

What could you expect from these corrupt ruthless and insane politicians, they cannot do anything better for Pakistanis, but worst you will find from them now.

But for sure Nation deserve same kind of Leaders, the same behavior they themselves have. CORRUPT [funnny] [anger] [wall]
 

furry87

Senator (1k+ posts)
abbasiali said:
furry87 said:
abbasiali said:
furry87 said:
barhaich said:
Musharraf's cowardly decisions unleashed terror in Pakistan.

May Allah have mercy on Zia-ul-Haqs soul.

Both are the same, one an extremist and the other a puppet who traded the lives of our brothers and sisters for the price of a shoe string.
Sorry to say, you cannot compare Musharaf to Ziaulhaq, Zia left behind him no controversy, He was the conquerer of Afghanistan, and if he wouldn't be assassin at that time, he would had had an undestroyable confederation of Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran, but it was an unfortunate event, western came to know about this move and they found it better for them to assassin. Imagine how would it worked, if Zia would had had that move successable.

No match between a puppet and a courageous Leader.

What could you expect from these corrupt ruthless and insane politicians, they cannot do anything better for Pakistanis, but worst you will find from them now.

But for sure Nation deserve same kind of Leaders, the same behavior they themselves have. CORRUPT [funnny] [anger] [wall]

I just have one simple question against ur tall claims , is music haram ?? i will however change my ealier statement, musharraf cannot be half the man zia was.
Yes Music is "HARAM"

Your forum is also haram then.
 
A

abbasiali

Guest
abbasiali said:
furry87 said:
abbasiali said:
furry87 said:
barhaich said:
Musharraf's cowardly decisions unleashed terror in Pakistan.

May Allah have mercy on Zia-ul-Haqs soul.

Both are the same, one an extremist and the other a puppet who traded the lives of our brothers and sisters for the price of a shoe string.
Sorry to say, you cannot compare Musharaf to Ziaulhaq, Zia left behind him no controversy, He was the conquerer of Afghanistan, and if he wouldn't be assassin at that time, he would had had an undestroyable confederation of Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran, but it was an unfortunate event, western came to know about this move and they found it better for them to assassin. Imagine how would it worked, if Zia would had had that move successable.
Don't participate, better for you.
No match between a puppet and a courageous Leader.

What could you expect from these corrupt ruthless and insane politicians, they cannot do anything better for Pakistanis, but worst you will find from them now.

But for sure Nation deserve same kind of Leaders, the same behavior they themselves have. CORRUPT [funnny] [anger] [wall]

I just have one simple question against ur tall claims , is music haram ?? i will however change my ealier statement, musharraf cannot be half the man zia was.
Yes Music is "HARAM"

Your forum is also haram then.[/quote]

qoute Abbasiali

LOL

So you are new MUFTI who has decide our forum's fate.

Never mind, its all up to your mind, what ever cooking in it, we damn cares.

Better don't participate in this forum, good for you.
 

furry87

Senator (1k+ posts)
abbasiali said:
I just have one simple question against ur tall claims , is music haram ?? i will however change my ealier statement, musharraf cannot be half the man zia was.
Yes Music is "HARAM"[/quote]

Your forum is also haram then.[/quote]

qoute Abbasiali

LOL

So you are new MUFTI who has decide our forum's fate.

Never mind, its all up to your mind, what ever cooking in it, we damn cares.

Better don't participate in this forum, good for you.[/quote]

With due respect , it was a simple logical conclusion. I asked you if music was haram as per Zia and you or some other mod said its haram.
This forum regularly has music uploaded to it and hence by that logic this forum his haram. Just like having liqour at ur shop makes ur whole business haram.

It was you who said all this and not me. I never said music was haram you did. For me it is not haram. I was not being a mufti and i dont every call anyone a kafir or a munafiq.It was you who gave the fatwa on music on ur own forum not me. My mind doesnt have anything cooking in it ,i just like to use simple logic to prove my point.
 

furry87

Senator (1k+ posts)
If following logic makes me a mufti then yes i am a mufti.
I never claimed to be a good muslim, infact i am probably the worse one out there, the kafirs probably have a better chance of getting into heaven than me.
I am not the one who called this forum haram , you did by saying music is haram.
 
A

abbasiali

Guest
furry87 said:
If following logic makes me a mufti then yes i am a mufti.
I never claimed to be a good muslim, infact i am probably the worse one out there, the kafirs probably have a better chance of getting into heaven than me.
I am not the one who called this forum haram , you did by saying music is haram.
you better first decide what you are trying to say, make sure that accusing or trying to play with words is art of others also, so be straight, and talk to the point. Don't bother what I told, be clear with your own self. If you have courage to compete then stay, otherwise give up. Don't feel sorry or Ashamed. We know when people they don't find them self in their shoes, then they start poking in other's business.
[pk flag]
 

I_hate_Liars

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
abbasiali said:
furry87 said:
If following logic makes me a mufti then yes i am a mufti.
I never claimed to be a good muslim, infact i am probably the worse one out there, the kafirs probably have a better chance of getting into heaven than me.
I am not the one who called this forum haram , you did by saying music is haram.
you better first decide what you are trying to say, make sure that accusing or trying to play with words is art of others also, so be straight, and talk to the point. Don't bother what I told, be clear with your own self. If you have courage to compete then stay, otherwise give up. Don't feel sorry or Ashamed. We know when people they don't find them self in their shoes, then they start poking in other's business.
[pk flag]
Why you are upset Mr Admin.can't face the criticism, you allowed Music on web and giving bhshan for Zia's Islam. lol
 
A

abbasiali

Guest
I_hate_Liars said:
abbasiali said:
furry87 said:
If following logic makes me a mufti then yes i am a mufti.
I never claimed to be a good muslim, infact i am probably the worse one out there, the kafirs probably have a better chance of getting into heaven than me.
I am not the one who called this forum haram , you did by saying music is haram.
you better first decide what you are trying to say, make sure that accusing or trying to play with words is art of others also, so be straight, and talk to the point. Don't bother what I told, be clear with your own self. If you have courage to compete then stay, otherwise give up. Don't feel sorry or Ashamed. We know when people they don't find them self in their shoes, then they start poking in other's business.
[pk flag]
Why you are upset Mr Admin.can't face the criticism, you allowed Music on web and giving bhshan for Zia's Islam. lol
Dear You can't put blame on us, if some upload any music, it is not possible for me or my team to keep an eye 24/7. and why would I be upset, its very simple, either you compete or argue, but whats the point in playing and trying to be very smart, for me thats the worst example of stupidity. (no offence to any one)
 

furry87

Senator (1k+ posts)
Lol abbas i have said all i wanted to say perhaps ur a bit slow on picking things up.I was not accusing you of anything. My first post expresses the sentiments i have about zia. My second post further says musharraf and zia were the same ie equally destructive and psycotic. You on the other hand said Zia was an angel and terrorism is a mud cake filled with creamy choclate. You believe zia to be a true leader so i asked u about his views, ie is music haram and you said yes. That automatically meant that this forum was haram according to you not me. Now i am not bothered with who loads it or not or whether u are watching it or no, to me it is not haram.
I was just trying to get u to see that he was crazy and he started the trend on giving fatwas on almost everything and anyone without any trial. I wasnt playing with words, now u are just trying to act coy and trying to dig ur self out of the hole u dug urself.
My words were pretty clear i didnt not call this forum haram you did. Its not called playing with words its simple logic.

PS why are u talking like i attacked you or this forum, i am not poking at anything ,the discussion was based on zia and his policies and views but u are taking it to a personal level. Please dont do that.