Why can't we ask questions on siasat.pk?

[wadera]

This is in response to my thread being deleted by Waseem the moderator.

I am surprised that my simple question that I asked only to get some views from practicing Shia's was deleted with comments that Sectarian discussion is not allowed.

This is really shocking. Here is why:

Firstly, if we don't ask questions to each other we can never learn about each other.

Secondly, why is asking 'sectarian' questions taboo on this website? You are happy to allow filthy posts like Veena maliks photos and most irrelevant news BUT some simple discussion on 'sects' is not allowed. WHY???

Lastly, I protest this action by the moderator unless a suitable explanation is given.

 

[jee_nee_us]

You question might be out of good intention but knowing this forum and knowing the people of pakistan , it would have turned into an ugly sectarian abusive thread. Prevention is better than cure.

 

[ustadjejanab]

اگر آپ کوئی علمی نوعیت کا سوال پوچھنا چاہتے ہیں تو یہ فورم ویسے بھی اس کے لئے مناسب نہیں ہے ، یہاں کون سے علماء یا مجتہد بیٹھے ہیں جو آپ کو مناسب جواب کی توقع ہے
اکثر ہوتا یہی ھے کہ اس قسم کے تھریڈ فرقہ وارانہ لا حاصل بحث اور گالم گلوچ پر اختتام پزیر ہوتے ہیں .
اگر آپ کسی فرقے کے بارے میں جاننا چاہتے ہیں تو کتابوں سے مدد حاصل کریں
ویسے میرے خیال میں زیادہ بہتر یہ ہو گا کہ آپ قرآن سے مدد حاصل کریں اور اس فرقہ واریت کے چکر میں پڑیں ہی نہ ​

 

[wadera]

Folks , thanks for your response. My question was on whether Shia folks in PK accept the Holy Quran in the present form, read and follow as well?

As I have heard from different sources (mainly internet) that Shia's don't accept the Holy Quran in the present form and that their 'Imam' has taken the 'Real' Quran in a cave.

I only wanted people who are practicing Shia's to deny or agree with the above.

No controversy there - just want to understand whether the above is true or not .. is that too controversial a question???

 

[RuleBre@ker]

جس معاشرے میں بس سے اتار کر صرف اس لئے قتل کر دیا جائے کیوں کے اسکا تعلق کسی دوسرے فرقے سے ہے تو وہاں ایسے سوال پوچھنے کا کیا مطلب ہو گا آپ کو بہتر پتہ ہے

 

[zubair.maalick]

Folks , thanks for your response. My question was on whether Shia folks in PK accept the Holy Quran in the present form, read and follow as well?

As I have heard from different sources (mainly internet) that Shia's don't accept the Holy Quran in the present form and that their 'Imam' has taken the 'Real' Quran in a cave.

I only wanted people who are practicing Shia's to deny or agree with the above.

No controversy there - just want to understand whether the above is true or not .. is that too controversial a question???

to mere bhai aap kisi Shia Scholar se ja ker puucho .. yahan aisy sawal kyou post ker rhy ho :S

Hum log religion related issue apny hi jaisy logoon se discuss kerty hain jin ka khud koi knowledge nahi hota ... isi liye her banda religion ko ly ker confuse hai ...

 

[wadera]

جس معاشرے میں بس سے اتار کر صرف اس لئے قتل کر دیا جائے کیوں کے اسکا تعلق کسی دوسرے فرقے سے ہے تو وہاں ایسے سوال پوچھنے کا کیا مطلب ہو گا آپ کو بہتر پتہ ہے

You see, this is my main problem. If you don't have discussion and prevent people from talking on basic issues - then surely it will lead to the killings on both sides.

Both Shias and sunnis have been brutally murdered - one must ask, why is this happening? Without dialogue people will easily make-believe in hearsay .. the reason i asked above questions is to hear from the 'horses mouth' .. not hearsay ..not XYZ but from the person practicing ... mainly to clear the doubts I have in my mind ..

If we want to stop the sectarian killings and killings in the name of Islam then dialogue is a MUST

 

[wadera]

to mere bhai aap kisi Shia Scholar se ja ker puucho .. yahan aisy sawal kyou post ker rhy ho :S

Hum log religion related issue apny hi jaisy logoon se discuss kerty hain jin ka khud koi knowledge nahi hota ... isi liye her banda religion ko ly ker confuse hai ...

Sir, again .. back to my point .. I want to hear from people on this forum who are practicing Shias. Yes, I can ask a scholars but I am not asking for 'daleel' on whether its right or wrong .. that is not my point nor my intention ..

rather I am only interested to know what Shia folks on this forum practice in real life ... not asking anyone to change their beliefs etc .. just asking a simple question which is relevant and non-controversial

 

[A_Yaseen]

You are not the first to ask these questions. Yes your intentions might be right but these discussions result in insulting the personalities we love most. So better consult any scholar of the specific sect. Moderator are very right to stop these types of discussions as they have experienced what has happened in the past.

 

[wadera]

You are not the first to ask these questions. Yes your intentions might be right but these discussions result in insulting the personalities we love most. So better consult any scholar of the specific sect. Moderator are very right to stop these types of discussions as they have experienced what has happened in the past.

A picture is worth a thousand words ..

 

[AsifAmeer]

In an Kaafir, infidel and a decadent country like the US, there is a sunni masjid, a shia masjid (Dar-e-Abbas) and an Ahmedi Masjid all within 5 miles radius from where i work. Ppl from all backgrounds have their shops close to their masjid. Never have I heard issues erupt. Infact, its unthinkable!

I dont know exactly what the uniting factor is. Maybe the lack of politicization of religion?

You see, this is my main problem. If you don't have discussion and prevent people from talking on basic issues - then surely it will lead to the killings on both sides.

Both Shias and sunnis have been brutally murdered - one must ask, why is this happening? Without dialogue people will easily make-believe in hearsay .. the reason i asked above questions is to hear from the 'horses mouth' .. not hearsay ..not XYZ but from the person practicing ... mainly to clear the doubts I have in my mind ..

If we want to stop the sectarian killings and killings in the name of Islam then dialogue is a MUST

 

[alimohsan52]

I am not fond of any sectarian discussion on this forum. I had an MQM member hurl horrendous abuse at my sunni berelvi/sufii beliefs.

I have no doubt in my mind @wadera bhai jaan has very good intention, unfortunately some other people turn the thread around into bashing one sect.

We should build tolerance, and celebrate the fact we are Pakistani and that Islam binds and unites us all. Furthermore, we should show tolerance towards other beliefs.

 

[AsifAmeer]

I wrote an article on RIBA in TheNews. Here is a comment from someone

There is no aalim here to answer you and i think its not the right forum. Don't make these so lightly that anyone can give its opinion.

Is there a custom of ignoring facts? Reason why I shared this is because your comment share the same mentality.

You are not the first to ask these questions. Yes your intentions might be right but these discussions result in insulting the personalities we love most. So better consult any scholar of the specific sect. Moderator are very right to stop these types of discussions as they have experienced what has happened in the past.

 

[wadera]

In an Kaafir, infidel and a decadent country like the US, there is a sunni masjid, a shia masjid (Dar-e-Abbas) and an Ahmedi Masjid all within 5 miles radius from where i work. Ppl from all backgrounds have their shops close to their masjid. Never have I heard issues erupt. Infact, its unthinkable!

I dont know exactly what the uniting factor is. Maybe the lack of politicization of religion?

Politicization and perhaps they know too well that any issues may have negative effects? For example, a Pakistani in Pakistan would throw rubbish all over, smoke where the signs says no smoking etc etc but same person going abroad will follow the rules ...

Similar situation is in the neighborhoods of our country where people try and keep their houses very clean but neighborhood streets and anything outside the boundary of the house is not their problem. This when Islam says cleanliness is 'nisf' imaan.

What upsets me is that we are happy to leave Islam to 'scholars' and don't want to strive to understand Islam as 'scholars' will tell us. Not all scholars are same in terms of knowledge, status of politics and intentions. This leads to a lot of confusion among people.

Similarly, no matter how extreme liberal a person is . .he/she will want his children to marry according to their belief and usually a 'Ustad's' services will be acquired, this is similar during funerals etc .. so again .. if we can't strive to understand eachother and our differences and increase our knowledge of Islam .. we are only fooling ourselves.

 

[wadera]

I am not fond of any sectarian discussion on this forum. I had an MQM member hurl horrendous abuse at my sunni berelvi/sufii beliefs.

I have no doubt in my mind @wadera bhai jaan has very good intention, unfortunately some other people turn the thread around into bashing one sect.

We should build tolerance, and celebrate the fact we are Pakistani and that Islam binds and unites us all. Furthermore, we should show tolerance towards other beliefs.

Ali Bhai - my apologies if someone attacked your beliefs. In my opinion, the mods should ban such a person but banning discussion on seemingly taboo topics.

In theory you are right that we are Pakistanis and Islam binds and unites us, however, unfortunately, in reality its very different. This again is because we don't have proper dialogue. Perhaps we as a nation are not mature, too emotional and we are more happy to talk about veena malik's state as a Pakistani exposing herself in India than talk about some core issues.

For example, how many of us really know the main reasons of the shia/sunni divide .. or sub-sect divisions within shia/sunni .. why is our history in Paksitan studies only starting with 1947 ?

Education in my opinion is not getting PhD or Masters ... its the thirst of knowledge and being able to learn, re-learn and use that learning to help people.

 

[alimohsan52]

Ali Bhai - my apologies if someone attacked your beliefs. In my opinion, the mods should ban such a person but banning discussion on seemingly taboo topics.

In theory you are right that we are Pakistanis and Islam binds and unites us, however, unfortunately, in reality its very different. This again is because we don't have proper dialogue. Perhaps we as a nation are not mature, too emotional and we are more happy to talk about veena malik's state as a Pakistani exposing herself in India than talk about some core issues.

For example, how many of us really know the main reasons of the shia/sunni divide .. or sub-sect divisions within shia/sunni .. why is our history in Paksitan studies only starting with 1947 ?

Education in my opinion is not getting PhD or Masters ... its the thirst of knowledge and being able to learn, re-learn and use that learning to help people.

Wadera bhai your intentions are very good.

I even think we should encourage a forum where we share and focus on what is common and build bridges. Perhaps why can't we have a Shia-Sunni unity forum?

 

[RuleBre@ker]

You see, this is my main problem. If you don't have discussion and prevent people from talking on basic issues - then surely it will lead to the killings on both sides.

Both Shias and sunnis have been brutally murdered - one must ask, why is this happening? Without dialogue people will easily make-believe in hearsay .. the reason i asked above questions is to hear from the 'horses mouth' .. not hearsay ..not XYZ but from the person practicing ... mainly to clear the doubts I have in my mind ..

If we want to stop the sectarian killings and killings in the name of Islam then dialogue is a MUST

بھائی مجھے آپ کی نیت پر کوئی شک نہیں،مگر آپ سے ایک بات کہوں کے اگر اتنے بڑے بڑے علماء کچھ باتوں پر اتفاق نہیں کر سکتے تو میں اور آپ کس کھیت کی مولی ہیں اس لئے کسی نے خوب کہا ہے کے اپنا فرقہ چھوڑو نہ اور دوسرے کے فرقے کو چھیڑو نہ ،باقی آپ کی اپنی مرضی

 

[wadera]

بھائی مجھے آپ کی نیت پر کوئی شک نہیں،مگر آپ سے ایک بات کہوں کے اگر اتنے بڑے بڑے علماء کچھ باتوں پر اتفاق نہیں کر سکتے تو میں اور آپ کس کھیت کی مولی ہیں اس لئے کسی نے خوب کہا ہے کے اپنا فرقہ چھوڑو نہ اور دوسرے کے فرقے کو چھیڑو نہ ،باقی آپ کی اپنی مرضی

Bhai sb., that is the main point - we should not try to convert each other .. in the Holy Quran is very clear .. there is no compulsion in deen.

perhaps understanding and as Ali mentioned above building unity can help. At the same time, we must be clear that Islam is not copyrighted to scholars and neither they will be held to account of our doings or vice versa.

We have been pre-told that there will be 73 sects and only 1 will be right and others will be wrong. It is also important to know that our beloved Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was neither a shia nor a sunni. So, why should we try to make such sects?

I am fully with you when you say scholars couldn't agree but perhaps we should even look at agreeing - the first step should be objectively understanding each other.

Secondly, we must all remember that all the great personalities of Islam won't be affected by what we say but we certainly are being affected by how we decide to interpret some things. Similarly, you must have noticed our confused response to the filthy movie released in US, or to people like Taslima Nasrin, salman rushdie etc .. this is because we are not united. We are not united that is why we have Saudi vs Iran .. Shia vs Sunni ..

If we can bridge these differences .. we will be much more stronger than what we are today. Just look at the world map and hot spots .. almost all wars are in Muslims lands - and most cases we are killing our own. Think!

 

[AsifAmeer]

Classic....

You should be proud of urself.

I have yet to find a SCHOLAR who will speak to me on RIBA and the general theory of money and interest. I have had Scholars, Islamic Finance Professors turn me away to "some expert" on those specific topics. Condition of Islamic Scholars is not too upbeat.

I have had Islamic Scholars tell me at my face - "STAY AWAY FROM PHILOSOPHY". They didnt even have any shame on their faces.

Politicization and perhaps they know too well that any issues may have negative effects? For example, a Pakistani in Pakistan would throw rubbish all over, smoke where the signs says no smoking etc etc but same person going abroad will follow the rules ...

Similar situation is in the neighborhoods of our country where people try and keep their houses very clean but neighborhood streets and anything outside the boundary of the house is not their problem. This when Islam says cleanliness is 'nisf' imaan.

What upsets me is that we are happy to leave Islam to 'scholars' and don't want to strive to understand Islam as 'scholars' will tell us. Not all scholars are same in terms of knowledge, status of politics and intentions. This leads to a lot of confusion among people.

Similarly, no matter how extreme liberal a person is . .he/she will want his children to marry according to their belief and usually a 'Ustad's' services will be acquired, this is similar during funerals etc .. so again .. if we can't strive to understand eachother and our differences and increase our knowledge of Islam .. we are only fooling ourselves.

 

[wadera]

Wadera bhai your intentions are very good.

I even think we should encourage a forum where we share and focus on what is common and build bridges. Perhaps why can't we have a Shia-Sunni unity forum?

Agree bro that is indeed a good approach but pre-step is to understand each other objectively and have a kind of global agreement on certain issues i.e. just agree to disagree and define those boundaries ..

With such a framework we can have a long lasting unity, insha'Allah