War and Terrorism - Defining the two and where to Draw the line?

Which is more threatening to world peace ??

  • Wars imposed by Global Military Powers

    Votes: 111 35.7%
  • Terrorist Attacks

    Votes: 18 5.8%
  • Both are equally bad and a threat to Global peace

    Votes: 182 58.5%

  • Total voters
    311

hairatkada

Banned
Dear Forum Members :

This thread to invite you to a discussion on how you define Terrorism ( Terror, terrorists ) and your perspective on wars. How does a war differ from a terrorist attack?
To begin the discussion, I would present the dictionary definition of both:

Terror: a very strong feeling of fear

: Something that causes very strong feelings of fear : something that is terrifying

: Violence that is committed by a person, group, or government in order to frighten people and achieve a political goal

War :

: a state of usually open and declared armed hostile conflict between states or nations
: a period of such armed conflict
: the art or science of warfare
Source : http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/war

Discussion:
Both wars and terrorist attack result in human life causalities, destruction of property and societal breakdown. For instance Iraq Death Toll Reaches 500,000 Since Start Of U.S.-Led Invasion, New Study Says. Nearly half a million people have died from war-related causes in Iraq since the US-led invasion in 2003, according to an academic study published in the United States on Tuesday
Source : http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/15/iraq-death-toll_n_4102855.html

The Casualties of the 911 terrorist attack on the other hand were on the lower side The terrorist attacks resulted in the deaths of 2,996 people, including the 19 hijackers and 2,977 victims. The victims included 246 on the four planes (from which there were no survivors), 2,606 in New York City in the towers and on the ground, and 125 at the Pentagon)

We you compare terrorism vs war casualties you would find out that the US led war was 166 times more deadly than the terrorist attacks.

In light of the above, let’s start a discussion which one of the two is more damaging i.e. war or terrorism? Or are they both equally bad and what can we do to make this world a better place. Are wars and terrorism inter – related?

Let us have a decent discussion. All inputs welcome but please no swearing, name calling and conspiracy theories.


I have created the Poll. Please vote on the link below

Which is more threatening to world peace

Option 1 : Wars imposed by Global Military Powers
Option 2 : Terrorist Attacks
Option 3 : Both are equally bad and a threat to Global peace




Request to moderators : Can you please add the poll option below into this thread ( we have approximately 7,000 unique online forum surfers and it would be great to see how they vote and their perspective in to this issue )

Which is more threatening to world peace

Option 1 : Wars imposed by Global Military Powers
Option 2 : Terrorist Attacks
Option 3 : Both are equally bad and a threat to Global peace

Your anticipated cooperation would be greatly appreciated.
 
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atensari

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
نو دو گیارہ حملوں کا بدلہ انہی لوگوں سے لیا جانا چاہے تھا جو اس میں ملوث تھے. طالبان نے ان افراد کو پناہ دی اور مقدمہ چلائے بغیر محض الزام کی بنیاد پر انھے بادشاہ سلامت کے حضور پیش کرنے سے انکار کیا. چلیں یہ بھی مان لیتے ہیں کے ان کا گناہ تھا جس کی انھے سزا دی گئی. اس کے علاوہ بدلے کے جنون میں بے گناہ لوگوں کا بے دریغ قتل کیا گیا. بہتی گنگا میں ہاتھ دھونے کے مترداف صدام کے پاس وسیع پیمانے پر تباہی پھیلانے والے ہتیار ہونے کا بہانہ بنا کر عراق پر حملہ کیا گیا اور حملے کے بعد ایک کیل بھی برآمد نہیں ہوئی. دہشت گردی اور کیسے کہتے ہیں
 

hairatkada

Banned
نو دو گیارہ حملوں کا بدلہ انہی لوگوں سے لیا جانا چاہے تھا جو اس میں ملوث تھے. طالبان نے ان افراد کو پناہ دی اور مقدمہ چلائے بغیر محض الزام کی بنیاد پر انھے بادشاہ سلامت کے حضور پیش کرنے سے انکار کیا. چلیں یہ بھی مان لیتے ہیں کے ان کا گناہ تھا جس کی انھے سزا دی گئی. اس کے علاوہ بدلے کے جنون میں بے گناہ لوگوں کا بے دریغ قتل کیا گیا. بہتی گنگا میں ہاتھ دھونے کے مترداف صدام کے پاس وسیع پیمانے پر تباہی پھیلانے والے ہتیار ہونے کا بہانہ بنا کر عراق پر حملہ کیا گیا اور حملے کے بعد ایک کیل بھی برآمد نہیں ہوئی. دہشت گردی اور کیسے کہتے ہیں

Antesari Bhai I was a teenager when the first Gulf war started and after witnessing all these years of war and destruction around us I feel the below :

It is war when the killing is committed by powerful countries like USA, UK etc. Bombing civilians by airplanes and laser guided missiles is war
It is an act of terrorism when the less powerful ( Saddam, Qaddafi and the militants fighting the global powers) hit the powerful with less destructive means or less developed weapons.

Please note that the red has caused less destruction than the green. Ironic isn't it?
What do you think of my observation?
P.S : I condemn both the green and the red.
 

karachiwala

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
​کہتے شیر بادشاہ ہوتا ہے چاہے انڈے دے یا بچے۔ یہی حال مغربی طاقتوں کا ہے جسے چاہیں ٹیررسٹ کہیں جسے چاہیں مجرم کہیں۔
 

atensari

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Antesari Bhai I was a teenager when the first Gulf war started and after witnessing all these years of war and destruction around us I feel the below :

It is war when the killing is committed by powerful countries like USA, UK etc. Bombing civilians by airplanes and laser guided missiles is war
It is an act of terrorism when the less powerful ( Saddam, Qaddafi and the militants fighting the global powers) hit the powerful with less destructive means or less developed weapons.

Please note that the red has caused less destruction than the green. Ironic isn't it?
What do you think of my observation?
P.S : I condemn both the green and the red.
بلا شبہ دہشت گردی دہشت گردی چلانے والوں کا سکور دہشت گرد کا لقب پانے والوں سے بہت زیادہ ہے. پروپگنڈا وہ جو میڈیا کے سر چڑھ کر بولے
 

atensari

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم

افغانستان پر حملے کے نتیجے میں سیکولر جمہوریت مسلط کی گئی، عراق میں بھی یہی کھیل دہرایا گیا. شام میں یہی کھیل کھیلا جا رہا ہے

یہ سب کچھ مذہب کے لئے کیا جا رہا لیکن سیکولر نقاب اوڑھ کر، کس مذہب کے پیروکار اور ان کی ملت، راز کی بات نہیں ہے
 
Last edited by a moderator:

افغانستان پر حملے کے نتیجے میں سیکولر جمہوریت مسلط کی گئی، عراق میں بھی یہی کھیل دہرایا گیا. شام میں یہی کھیل کھیلا جا رہا ہے

یہ سب کچھ مذہب کے لئے کیا جا رہا لیکن سیکولر نقاب اوڑھ کر، کس مذہب کے پیروکار اور ان کی ملت، راز کی بات نہیں ہے

Western Powers imposed Secular Democracy in Afghanistan according to u!

I think Talibani Khilafat (worst kind of dictatorship) was also imposed on Afghanistan by Gun Power not by the will of People!
 

atensari

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Western Powers imposed Secular Democracy in Afghanistan according to u!

I think Talibani Khilafat (worst kind of dictatorship) was also imposed on Afghanistan by Gun Power not by the will of People!
تو فرق کیا پڑا، صرف پروپگنڈے گا جس کی لاٹھی اس کی بھینس
جیسے الیکشن افغانستان میں ہوتے ہیں امریکہ ہوں اور لوگ مان لیں تب بات ہے
 
I have created the Poll. Please vote on the link below

Which is more threatening to world peace

Option 1 : Wars imposed by Global Military Powers
Option 2 : Terrorist Attacks
Option 3 : Both are equally bad and a threat to Global peace


http://vote.pollcode.com/21915357#sthash.EqqJj6Xv.dpuf

In today world there is difference between War and Terrorism
Terrorism is a way to deliberately targeting civilians to create fear while in War civilians also get killed but they are not a deliberate target
So u cannot confuse Terrorism with War
U cannot equate todays wars with ancient traditions of War!
 
تو فرق کیا پڑا، صرف پروپگنڈے گا جس کی لاٹھی اس کی بھینس
جیسے الیکشن افغانستان میں ہوتے ہیں امریکہ ہوں اور لوگ مان لیں تب بات ہے

There is a lot of difference between a Secular Fake Democracy and a Bloody Dictatorship... Buddy!
 

hairatkada

Banned
In today world there is difference between War and Terrorism
Terrorism is a way to deliberately targeting civilians to create fear while in War civilians also get killed but they are not a deliberate target
So u cannot confuse Terrorism with War
U cannot equate todays wars with ancient traditions of War!

Please note that wars and terrorism both kill the innocent. There is no bomb that can distinguish between civilians and combatants.
Iraq Death Toll Reaches 500,000 Since Start Of U.S.-Led Invasion, New Study Says. Nearly half a million people have died from war-related causes in Iraq since the US-led invasion in 2003, according to an academic study published in the United States on Tuesday
Source : http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4102855.html

All Civilian Casualties buddy! thats why i equated the two!
 
Please note that wars and terrorism both kill the innocent. There is no bomb that can distinguish between civilians and combatants.
Iraq Death Toll Reaches 500,000 Since Start Of U.S.-Led Invasion, New Study Says. Nearly half a million people have died from war-related causes in Iraq since the US-led invasion in 2003, according to an academic study published in the United States on Tuesday
Source : http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4102855.html

All Civilian Casualties buddy! thats why i equated the two!

Iraq casualties were not due to the American Bombs, Most of civilian casualties in Iraq caused by the bombs planted and thrown by Sectarian groups!
70000 casualties in Pakistan does not mean that they were killed by Pakistan army most of these casualties were caused by terrorist groups deliberately attacking civilians! When u guys are going to end war in Pakistan Khawarji Bhai?
 
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hairatkada

Banned
Iraq casualties were not due to the American Bombs, Most of civilian casualties in Iraq caused by the bombs planted and thrown by Sectarian groups!
7000 casualties in Pakistan does not mean that they were killed by Pakistan army most of these casualties were caused by terrorist groups deliberately attacking civilians
The reference i pasted show the casualty of US led invasion. The sectarian conflict came later and is not included in it. Please do not intermix to confuse the issue.
 
The reference i pasted show the casualty of US led invasion. The sectarian conflict came later and is not included in it. Please do not intermix to confuse the issue.

No brother the casualties u showed were not due to American attack, these casualties are the combined tally of American invasion and the later sectarian and ethnic terrorism
 
ح

حکایت جنوں

Guest
No brother the casualties u showed were not due to American attack, these casualties are the combined tally of American invasion and the later sectarian and ethnic terrorism
Who created the socio-political conditions for this sectarian and ethnic terrorism?
 
Who created the socio-political conditions for this sectarian and ethnic terrorism?

Conditions were already there created by Saddam Hussain

Number of Iraqis Killed by Sadam Hussain

Number of Victims[edit]

According to The New York Times, "he [Saddam] murdered as many as a million of his people, many with poison gas. He tortured, maimed and imprisoned countless more. His unprovoked invasion of Iran is estimated to have left another million people dead. His seizure of Kuwait threw the Middle East into crisis. More insidious, arguably, was the psychological damage he inflicted on his own land. Hussein created a nation of informants — friends on friends, circles within circles — making an entire population complicit in his rule".[SUP][9][/SUP] Other estimates as to the number of Iraqis killed by Saddam's regime vary from roughly a quarter to half a million,[SUP][10][/SUP][SUP][11][/SUP] including 50,000 to 182,000 Kurds and 25,000 to 280,000 killed during the repression of the 1991 rebellion.[SUP][12][/SUP][SUP][13][/SUP] Estimates for the number of dead in the Iran-Iraq war range upwards from 300,000.[SUP][14][/SUP]
Other atrocities[edit]

During the 1991 rebellion, several "dungeons" were liberated, revealing "disoriented and confused" inmates that believed Ahmed Hassan al-Bakr was still the president.[SUP][15][/SUP] Of nearly 2 million refugees created by the 1991 crackdown on dissent, it is estimated that 1,000 died every day for a period of months due to unsanitary and inhumane conditions.[SUP][16][/SUP] The destruction of Shi'ite religious shrines by Hussein's regime has been called "comparable to the levelling of cities in the Second World War, and the damage to the shrines [of Hussein and Abbas] was more serious than that which had been done to many European cathedrals."[SUP][17][/SUP] Methods of torture used by Hussein's regime included assault with brass knuckles and wooden bludgeons; electric shocks to the genitalia; scorched metal rods being forced into body orifices; the crushing of toes and removal of toenails; burning off limbs; lowering prisoners into vats of acid; poisoning with thallium; raping women in front of their family members; burning with cigarette butts; the crushing of bones; the amputation of ears, limbs, and tongues; and the gouging of eyes.[SUP][18][/SUP] After the 1983-88 genocide, some 1 million Kurds were allowed to resettle in "model villages". According to a U.S. Senate staff report, these villages "were poorly constructed, had minimal sanitation and water, and provided few employment opportunities for the residents. Some, if not most, were surrounded by barbed wire, and Kurds could enter or leave only with difficulty."[SUP][19][/SUP]
 
Ok I agree that it were the Martians that attacked Iraq.

No it is the Khawarji ideology!

Number of Iraqis Killed by Sadam Hussain

Number of Victims[edit]

According to The New York Times, "he [Saddam] murdered as many as a million of his people, many with poison gas. He tortured, maimed and imprisoned countless more. His unprovoked invasion of Iran is estimated to have left another million people dead. His seizure of Kuwait threw the Middle East into crisis. More insidious, arguably, was the psychological damage he inflicted on his own land. Hussein created a nation of informants — friends on friends, circles within circles — making an entire population complicit in his rule".[SUP][9][/SUP] Other estimates as to the number of Iraqis killed by Saddam's regime vary from roughly a quarter to half a million,[SUP][10][/SUP][SUP][11][/SUP]including 50,000 to 182,000 Kurds and 25,000 to 280,000 killed during the repression of the 1991 rebellion.[SUP][12][/SUP][SUP][13][/SUP] Estimates for the number of dead in the Iran-Iraq war range upwards from 300,000.[SUP][14][/SUP]
Other atrocities[edit]

During the 1991 rebellion, several "dungeons" were liberated, revealing "disoriented and confused" inmates that believed Ahmed Hassan al-Bakr was still the president.[SUP][15][/SUP] Of nearly 2 million refugees created by the 1991 crackdown on dissent, it is estimated that 1,000 died every day for a period of months due to unsanitary and inhumane conditions.[SUP][16][/SUP]The destruction of Shi'ite religious shrines by Hussein's regime has been called "comparable to the levelling of cities in the Second World War, and the damage to the shrines [of Hussein and Abbas] was more serious than that which had been done to many European cathedrals."[SUP][17][/SUP] Methods of torture used by Hussein's regime included assault with brass knuckles and wooden bludgeons; electric shocks to the genitalia; scorched metal rods being forced into body orifices; the crushing of toes and removal of toenails; burning off limbs; lowering prisoners into vats of acid; poisoning with thallium; raping women in front of their family members; burning with cigarette butts; the crushing of bones; the amputation of ears, limbs, and tongues; and the gouging of eyes.[SUP][18][/SUP] After the 1983-88 genocide, some 1 million Kurds were allowed to resettle in "model villages". According to a U.S. Senate staff report, these villages "were poorly constructed, had minimal sanitation and water, and provided few employment opportunities for the residents. Some, if not most, were surrounded by barbed wire, and Kurds could enter or leave only with difficulty."[SUP][19][/SUP]
 

hairatkada

Banned
Conditions were already there created by Saddam Hussain

Number of Iraqis Killed by Sadam Hussain

Number of Victims[edit]

According to The New York Times, "he [Saddam] murdered as many as a million of his people, many with poison gas. He tortured, maimed and imprisoned countless more. His unprovoked invasion of Iran is estimated to have left another million people dead. His seizure of Kuwait threw the Middle East into crisis. More insidious, arguably, was the psychological damage he inflicted on his own land. Hussein created a nation of informants — friends on friends, circles within circles — making an entire population complicit in his rule".[SUP][9][/SUP] Other estimates as to the number of Iraqis killed by Saddam's regime vary from roughly a quarter to half a million,[SUP][10][/SUP][SUP][11][/SUP] including 50,000 to 182,000 Kurds and 25,000 to 280,000 killed during the repression of the 1991 rebellion.[SUP][12][/SUP][SUP][13][/SUP] Estimates for the number of dead in the Iran-Iraq war range upwards from 300,000.[SUP][14][/SUP]
Other atrocities[edit]

During the 1991 rebellion, several "dungeons" were liberated, revealing "disoriented and confused" inmates that believed Ahmed Hassan al-Bakr was still the president.[SUP][15][/SUP] Of nearly 2 million refugees created by the 1991 crackdown on dissent, it is estimated that 1,000 died every day for a period of months due to unsanitary and inhumane conditions.[SUP][16][/SUP]The destruction of Shi'ite religious shrines by Hussein's regime has been called "comparable to the levelling of cities in the Second World War, and the damage to the shrines [of Hussein and Abbas] was more serious than that which had been done to many European cathedrals."[SUP][17][/SUP] Methods of torture used by Hussein's regime included assault with brass knuckles and wooden bludgeons; electric shocks to the genitalia; scorched metal rods being forced into body orifices; the crushing of toes and removal of toenails; burning off limbs; lowering prisoners into vats of acid; poisoning with thallium; raping women in front of their family members; burning with cigarette butts; the crushing of bones; the amputation of ears, limbs, and tongues; and the gouging of eyes.[SUP][18][/SUP] After the 1983-88 genocide, some 1 million Kurds were allowed to resettle in "model villages". According to a U.S. Senate staff report, these villages "were poorly constructed, had minimal sanitation and water, and provided few employment opportunities for the residents. Some, if not most, were surrounded by barbed wire, and Kurds could enter or leave only with difficulty."[SUP][19][/SUP]

Sir, this very reasoning that because Saddam killed 50,000 kurds...hence the Americans can go in there and Massacre another 150,000 Iraqies does not make sense. How could two wrongs make one right?
 

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