WatanDost
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
DEAR MUSLIM
Brothers and Sisters
Recite Surah KAHAF before Salatul JUMMAH
According to Hadith its a SHIELD against Dajal
of DAJJAL.
And Always try to earn n eat HALLAL
This is the BIGGEST and EASIEST weapon of DAJJAL against MUSLIMS .
When you have HALLAL in your Stomach.
YOU CAN READ "KAF, FAI, RAI" written on forehead
of DAJJAL.
"EVERY MOMIN CAN READ IT EVEN HE or SHE IS ILLITERATE". Muhammad SAW.
Brothers and Sisters
Recite Surah KAHAF before Salatul JUMMAH
According to Hadith its a SHIELD against Dajal
of DAJJAL.
And Always try to earn n eat HALLAL
This is the BIGGEST and EASIEST weapon of DAJJAL against MUSLIMS .
When you have HALLAL in your Stomach.
YOU CAN READ "KAF, FAI, RAI" written on forehead
of DAJJAL.
"EVERY MOMIN CAN READ IT EVEN HE or SHE IS ILLITERATE". Muhammad SAW.
Islam is a system which is divine rule of law.
This system was destroyed well more than a thousand years ago. It was destroyed by so called muslims themselves and what people are following today is not islam but a system that is called islam. It is a system that rulers and their mullahs replaced it with.
It is time that people started to understand the quran themselves to see what they are told is islam or anti islam.
[FONT="]AL NISAA = THE COMMUNITIES
[/FONT] [FONT="]1) O mankind! be consistent with your Lord who evolved you from a single life form and evolved from it likes of it in pairs, and spread from one of the pairs in human form many men and women. So be consistent with rule of Allah so that thereby you have your legal rights against each other and fulfil your obligations towards each other concerning your ties of social relationships; surely in implementing rule of laws of Allah is protection for you the mankind as a single family.[/FONT]
[FONT="]2) So deliver to individuals their due assignment of goods accordingly and do not substitute the harmful ruling system for the beneficial ruling system. So that you do not handle the goods of other people as if they are your own goods. Surely to do so would be to inflict a huge harm on mankind.[/FONT]
[FONT="]3)[/FONT] [FONT="] However if you think that you will not be able to deliver goods on your own for the individuals then you should organize under people that you think are appropriate in your view for the task, two and three and four to help you do so. Yet if you think that you will not be able to deliver goods then be one under your own jurisdiction. That will be more suitable , so that you do not deviate from what is proper.[/FONT]
[FONT="]4) Thus deliver to the communities their rightfully due livelihood willingly but if they, by their own free will, give-up a portion of it then you may use it as you wish.[/FONT]
[FONT="]5) Moreover, do not place responsibility on mentally unsound people in the community for handling of their share in the community wealth which Allah has made a means of support for you, but, provide such people from it with food and clothing and speak to them nicely.[/FONT]
[FONT="]6) As for the underage individuals under your care, observe them through testing their abilities until they reach the age of marriage, then if you find them capable of sound judgment, hand over to them their property; and consume it not wastefully in haste thinking they will grow up and demand it. If the legal guardian is well-off, he should not take from the orphan's property any compensation, but if he is poor let him take a just and reasonable remuneration. When you hand over their property to them, make some witnesses over them; Remember, Allah is sufficient in calling to account.[/FONT]
[FONT="]AL MAAIDAH= The Constitution
[/FONT] [FONT="]1) O you who claim to be committed to working for peace, fulfil all your constitutional obligations properly. [/FONT]
[FONT="]2)Lawful is for you all that helps you progress and prosper save what is stated for you as forbidden other than in case of emergency whereby you are restricted within your official capacity. Indeed Allah orders according to whatever serves His declared plan and purpose.[/FONT]
[FONT="]3) [/FONT] [FONT="]O you who claim to be committed to working for peace, do not violate limits of Allah, do not shed sacred blood, do not violate any given instruction nor contractual agreements or people visiting any sacred social structure to seek knowledge and livelihood according to the declared will of their Lord. When you are out of office and off your official duty then you are allowed to live as normal. Yet let not the presence of some people who once hindered you from the Sacred Rule incite you to commit transgression against them, rather cooperate with one another in doing what is right with thoughtfulness but cooperate not with each other doing wrong by going against the guidance of Allah. Be consistent with rule of Allah for the good of people, for Allah is strict in bringing about result of your own actions.[/FONT]
[FONT="]4) Unlawful for you is; stagnation, bloodshed, profiteering, proclaiming sovereignty of other than Allah, hindering progress, killing thought process, returning to double standards, destroying community by harming each other, approaching prosperity half heartedly rather than purposefully, looking for excuses to escape responsibilities, or becoming divided and a target practice for others. All these are acts that are against the guidance of Allah. [/FONT]
[FONT="]As of now those who oppose the guidance of Allah will have to give up on their hope of you ever giving up on your divine rule of law. So pay them no attention at all instead pay attention to Me by way of paying attention to My guidance. Today I have finalised your constitution for you by completing my guidelines for you and approved Al-Islam= the peace as a DEEN= the rule of law. Moreover anyone who is compelled to take law in to one's own hand due to lack of fair rule of law or its enforcement, not intending transgression, will find Allah Forgiving and Merciful.[/FONT]
[FONT="]5) [/FONT] [FONT="]They ask you what is lawful for them, say, all that is good for you is lawful for you, as well as what you have taught the parties to produce upon which depends your livelihood, you have trained them with the knowledge given to you by Allah. So participate in that what they assign for you but reflect the name of Allah thereby. Be consistent with Allah and humanity, for Allah is swift in putting you through consequences of what you do.[/FONT]
[FONT="]6) [/FONT] [FONT="]Today all that is good has been made lawful for you; so is participation of the people of the book made lawful with you and your participation with them is made lawful. Likewise is the protection of the peaceful communities from amongst yourselves as well as protection of the communities from amongst the people given the book before you, provided that you give them their legally agreed due and desire freedom from harm, neither committing excesses nor taking them as slaves. Any party who commits treachery with peace deal, all its good works will come to nothing and in the end it will be one of the losers.[/FONT]
[FONT="]7) [/FONT] [FONT="]O you who claim to be committed to working for peace, when you stand up to implement divine rule of law, submerge yourselves fully with objective and your supporters carefully and remain connected to your heads for training as well as with your foundations till completion of both the main objectives. And if you have any confusion then become completely clear. However, if you are weak in the knowledge of the process or you are on a journey to learning, or any of you have come from a humble background, orare stuck with your communities and you have no access to complete divine revelation then fulfil your objective by doing what benefits the people. Thus you should tackle objectives yourselves and your supporters thereby. Allah does not want to place burden upon you but he wants to free you from all ills and complete His favour upon you so that you appreciate.[/FONT]
[FONT="]8) So remember Allah’s revelation to you and His covenant the one by which He held you under obligation when you said, we hear and we obey. So be consistent with Allah and mankind, surely Allah is familiar with secrets in your minds.[/FONT]
[FONT="]9)O you who claim to be committed to working for peace, be the ones who stand firmly for sake of Allah and be witnesses to the concrete truth and let not the enmity of a people incite you to do injustice. Do justice, that is right approach to consistency between people and is consistent with Allah, surely Allah is fully aware of all that you do.[/FONT]
[FONT="]10)Allah has promised those who are committed to working for peace and who do what is good for humanity that for them is relief from suffering and a mighty reward.
If the quran was interpreted this way would anyone dare become a king and yet claim to be a muslim? This is why the quran has been turned into a meaningless book through misinterpretations to give way to ruling elite and mullaism and to keep it that way.
Islam is conspired against from within but these people point us to the enemy outside. Keeping us confused as to who is the real enemy of islam and muslims. The ruling elite and the mullas.
The quran is all about what muslims should do to keep community spirit alive when there is no islam based ruling state of muslims and about maintaining islamic state by keeping laws enforced when there is one.
[/FONT]
This system was destroyed well more than a thousand years ago. It was destroyed by so called muslims themselves and what people are following today is not islam but a system that is called islam. It is a system that rulers and their mullahs replaced it with.
It is time that people started to understand the quran themselves to see what they are told is islam or anti islam.
[FONT="]AL NISAA = THE COMMUNITIES
[/FONT] [FONT="]1) O mankind! be consistent with your Lord who evolved you from a single life form and evolved from it likes of it in pairs, and spread from one of the pairs in human form many men and women. So be consistent with rule of Allah so that thereby you have your legal rights against each other and fulfil your obligations towards each other concerning your ties of social relationships; surely in implementing rule of laws of Allah is protection for you the mankind as a single family.[/FONT]
[FONT="]2) So deliver to individuals their due assignment of goods accordingly and do not substitute the harmful ruling system for the beneficial ruling system. So that you do not handle the goods of other people as if they are your own goods. Surely to do so would be to inflict a huge harm on mankind.[/FONT]
[FONT="]3)[/FONT] [FONT="] However if you think that you will not be able to deliver goods on your own for the individuals then you should organize under people that you think are appropriate in your view for the task, two and three and four to help you do so. Yet if you think that you will not be able to deliver goods then be one under your own jurisdiction. That will be more suitable , so that you do not deviate from what is proper.[/FONT]
[FONT="]4) Thus deliver to the communities their rightfully due livelihood willingly but if they, by their own free will, give-up a portion of it then you may use it as you wish.[/FONT]
[FONT="]5) Moreover, do not place responsibility on mentally unsound people in the community for handling of their share in the community wealth which Allah has made a means of support for you, but, provide such people from it with food and clothing and speak to them nicely.[/FONT]
[FONT="]6) As for the underage individuals under your care, observe them through testing their abilities until they reach the age of marriage, then if you find them capable of sound judgment, hand over to them their property; and consume it not wastefully in haste thinking they will grow up and demand it. If the legal guardian is well-off, he should not take from the orphan's property any compensation, but if he is poor let him take a just and reasonable remuneration. When you hand over their property to them, make some witnesses over them; Remember, Allah is sufficient in calling to account.[/FONT]
[FONT="]AL MAAIDAH= The Constitution
[/FONT] [FONT="]1) O you who claim to be committed to working for peace, fulfil all your constitutional obligations properly. [/FONT]
[FONT="]2)Lawful is for you all that helps you progress and prosper save what is stated for you as forbidden other than in case of emergency whereby you are restricted within your official capacity. Indeed Allah orders according to whatever serves His declared plan and purpose.[/FONT]
[FONT="]3) [/FONT] [FONT="]O you who claim to be committed to working for peace, do not violate limits of Allah, do not shed sacred blood, do not violate any given instruction nor contractual agreements or people visiting any sacred social structure to seek knowledge and livelihood according to the declared will of their Lord. When you are out of office and off your official duty then you are allowed to live as normal. Yet let not the presence of some people who once hindered you from the Sacred Rule incite you to commit transgression against them, rather cooperate with one another in doing what is right with thoughtfulness but cooperate not with each other doing wrong by going against the guidance of Allah. Be consistent with rule of Allah for the good of people, for Allah is strict in bringing about result of your own actions.[/FONT]
[FONT="]4) Unlawful for you is; stagnation, bloodshed, profiteering, proclaiming sovereignty of other than Allah, hindering progress, killing thought process, returning to double standards, destroying community by harming each other, approaching prosperity half heartedly rather than purposefully, looking for excuses to escape responsibilities, or becoming divided and a target practice for others. All these are acts that are against the guidance of Allah. [/FONT]
[FONT="]As of now those who oppose the guidance of Allah will have to give up on their hope of you ever giving up on your divine rule of law. So pay them no attention at all instead pay attention to Me by way of paying attention to My guidance. Today I have finalised your constitution for you by completing my guidelines for you and approved Al-Islam= the peace as a DEEN= the rule of law. Moreover anyone who is compelled to take law in to one's own hand due to lack of fair rule of law or its enforcement, not intending transgression, will find Allah Forgiving and Merciful.[/FONT]
[FONT="]5) [/FONT] [FONT="]They ask you what is lawful for them, say, all that is good for you is lawful for you, as well as what you have taught the parties to produce upon which depends your livelihood, you have trained them with the knowledge given to you by Allah. So participate in that what they assign for you but reflect the name of Allah thereby. Be consistent with Allah and humanity, for Allah is swift in putting you through consequences of what you do.[/FONT]
[FONT="]6) [/FONT] [FONT="]Today all that is good has been made lawful for you; so is participation of the people of the book made lawful with you and your participation with them is made lawful. Likewise is the protection of the peaceful communities from amongst yourselves as well as protection of the communities from amongst the people given the book before you, provided that you give them their legally agreed due and desire freedom from harm, neither committing excesses nor taking them as slaves. Any party who commits treachery with peace deal, all its good works will come to nothing and in the end it will be one of the losers.[/FONT]
[FONT="]7) [/FONT] [FONT="]O you who claim to be committed to working for peace, when you stand up to implement divine rule of law, submerge yourselves fully with objective and your supporters carefully and remain connected to your heads for training as well as with your foundations till completion of both the main objectives. And if you have any confusion then become completely clear. However, if you are weak in the knowledge of the process or you are on a journey to learning, or any of you have come from a humble background, orare stuck with your communities and you have no access to complete divine revelation then fulfil your objective by doing what benefits the people. Thus you should tackle objectives yourselves and your supporters thereby. Allah does not want to place burden upon you but he wants to free you from all ills and complete His favour upon you so that you appreciate.[/FONT]
[FONT="]8) So remember Allah’s revelation to you and His covenant the one by which He held you under obligation when you said, we hear and we obey. So be consistent with Allah and mankind, surely Allah is familiar with secrets in your minds.[/FONT]
[FONT="]9)O you who claim to be committed to working for peace, be the ones who stand firmly for sake of Allah and be witnesses to the concrete truth and let not the enmity of a people incite you to do injustice. Do justice, that is right approach to consistency between people and is consistent with Allah, surely Allah is fully aware of all that you do.[/FONT]
[FONT="]10)Allah has promised those who are committed to working for peace and who do what is good for humanity that for them is relief from suffering and a mighty reward.
If the quran was interpreted this way would anyone dare become a king and yet claim to be a muslim? This is why the quran has been turned into a meaningless book through misinterpretations to give way to ruling elite and mullaism and to keep it that way.
Islam is conspired against from within but these people point us to the enemy outside. Keeping us confused as to who is the real enemy of islam and muslims. The ruling elite and the mullas.
The quran is all about what muslims should do to keep community spirit alive when there is no islam based ruling state of muslims and about maintaining islamic state by keeping laws enforced when there is one.
[/FONT]
Last edited:
biomat
Minister (2k+ posts)
Dear Mughal1
Assalam-o-alaikum
Welcome again to this thread (as in prev your reply is still waiting)..
Lets agree that MULLAH & RULING ELITE destroyed beautiful islam..
Can you share with us what you or like minded people have done to counter FITNAS by these maulvis SPECIALLY MULLAH MIRZA GHULAM AHMED QADIYANI..
As i have been following you on this forum & specillay ISLAM related threads, but i missed where you are countering MULLAH MIRZA GHULAM AHMED QADIYANI claims of ESSA, MEHDI & PROPHET..
I have read one article shared on www.toluislam.com about QADIYANI FITNA that MULLAHS HAVE PLACED CONCEPT OF SECOND COMING OF ESSA & MEHDI ARRIVAL thats why that vacant chair was confiscated by MULLAH MIRZA GHULAM..
I think the writer (like minded of yours ideology) forgot to mention that FALSE PROPHETS were rising even in the era of our beloved prophet PBUH.. So who have left the chair for whom??? If this concept was not there will there be no false prophet..?? Why there is hadith about 30 false prophets coming before judgement day..
As i have your postings where you said that you believe in QURAN & AUTHENTIC HADITHs.. Dont tell me you donot know about the above facts i have disclosed...
Brother i am awaiting for your reply on this point & reply of my SALAM.
again ASSALAM-o-ALAIKUM WARAHMATULLAH..
Jaza-k-ALLAH.
May ALLAH guide me & all of you who are following pervaiz or mirza..
Assalam-o-alaikum
Welcome again to this thread (as in prev your reply is still waiting)..
Lets agree that MULLAH & RULING ELITE destroyed beautiful islam..
Can you share with us what you or like minded people have done to counter FITNAS by these maulvis SPECIALLY MULLAH MIRZA GHULAM AHMED QADIYANI..
As i have been following you on this forum & specillay ISLAM related threads, but i missed where you are countering MULLAH MIRZA GHULAM AHMED QADIYANI claims of ESSA, MEHDI & PROPHET..
I have read one article shared on www.toluislam.com about QADIYANI FITNA that MULLAHS HAVE PLACED CONCEPT OF SECOND COMING OF ESSA & MEHDI ARRIVAL thats why that vacant chair was confiscated by MULLAH MIRZA GHULAM..
I think the writer (like minded of yours ideology) forgot to mention that FALSE PROPHETS were rising even in the era of our beloved prophet PBUH.. So who have left the chair for whom??? If this concept was not there will there be no false prophet..?? Why there is hadith about 30 false prophets coming before judgement day..
As i have your postings where you said that you believe in QURAN & AUTHENTIC HADITHs.. Dont tell me you donot know about the above facts i have disclosed...
Brother i am awaiting for your reply on this point & reply of my SALAM.
again ASSALAM-o-ALAIKUM WARAHMATULLAH..
Jaza-k-ALLAH.
May ALLAH guide me & all of you who are following pervaiz or mirza..
angryoldman
Minister (2k+ posts)
Mughal has to understand that its not shughal.
i wonder how many $ he getting from kuffar to distract muslims.
i wonder how many $ he getting from kuffar to distract muslims.
Dear biomat, the oldest in tact tafseer of the quran we have is by ibn jareer tabree, it is in 30 volumes, Imaam ghazaali's tafseer is in 20 volumes and these are very short compared to tafseer al afwadi which is in 120 volumes and yet more cumbersome tafseer is al hadaaiq which is in 500 volumes.
All these tafaseer and many others are useless because they follow no principle of understanding of the quran in terms of book of DEEN. They are mostly collections of many made up stories and then starting argument on that basis just like you people do here in response to my posts ie make beliefs.
You tell me what do you learn from all this in terms of DEEN? The only great thing these people have done is left us information about islam and conveyed us certain rules even though they themselves did not understand them not followed them. They accepted islam as a mazhab and continued things that way. This is why later mullas used their works to drive us in the same direction a far distance and made coming back yet more difficult for us.
You speak about mirza sb but he too followed the same path of mazhab nothing like the path of the prophets of the past. Those mistakes were taken aboard by mirza sb as well and so there is no chance as far as I am concerned that he be anything other than an ordinary mulla. Qadianies are also struggling on matters regarding the quran as we all are so what difference did mirza sb make to proper understanding of the quran?
As far as I understand the quran, very few people look at the quran that way because to be able to see through fog raised by mullas to confuse us you have to come out of that fog and rethink things through thoroughly. The while we were living on the earth and did not reflect much on things beyond, we did not even realise it was flying through space, did we? If we want to understand the quran then we need to leave cumbersome tafaseer behind and get the new understanding of the quran in reference to rest of humanity and the universe.
We need to move on from where sir seyyed, iqbal, parwez etc brought us to new frontiers. It will be worse blunder to condemn people of knowledge and follow people who themselves were utterly confused about islam and the real world.
Tell me which tafseer applies law of contradiction and where in their interpretation of the quran? What did they do to solve contradictions they thought there were within the quran and in between the quran and the real world?
Due to there inability they invented theorty of abrogation instead of solving the problem sensibly.
I do not accept any verse of the quran abrogated. It is because they misinterpreted the quran they introduced contradictions there and then could not solve them. This is why instead they came up with idea of suppression of questioning against their explanations. They were successful for as long as they were in power but look what happened since they lost their power. This is their legacy for us to be proud of.
Had they encouraged learning we ought to have so many schools and universities in the world the way muslims rules the world from east to west. It was deliberate conspiracy against the quran to suppress the true understanding of it because it did not allow class division between muslims. Allah treats all people as one in the quran no division he makes as regard provision. His instructions are not for dividing people into muslims and nonmuslims but to stop people from doing that.
He desires that people live as one family and stop fighting like little kids due to their ignorance. He want them to come out of night of ignorance and into the daylight of knowledge.
You claim to have been following my posts but only to defend mullaism I suppose because I tried to explain things in depth starting with rules. I have only started critical examination of posts by others recently and only because they just follow stories without any understanding of rules that help us judge those stories.
If you remember, people used to post a lot of verses of the quran and many ahadith and used to argue endlessly. Seeing that I explained the real situation wherever I could.
Look at my explanations of halaal and hraam and the rules that were followed.
I explained what sunnah means and what it does not mean. All this is not liked by mullah fans but they cannot refute it.
I do not think islam is a make belief system of dogmas and rituals. In my view it is evidence based divine rule of law which challenges us intellectually. If we do not want to learn and think islam is just a make belief like any other religion then are we really serving islam or simply driving ourselves out of islam?
Just one thinking one is a muslim is not sufficient rather we need to know islam as we ought to know it and after knowing it properly we need to follow it ourselves as well as invite others to it just like the prophet and companions did.
We ourselves dragging islam in dirt and feeling proud does not add up.
So my dear brother please question what you believe, it may be just your make belief but if it is not then you will get plenty of evidences from within the quran. Start reading the actual text of the quran and see how it makes sense.
The quran is testimony of Allah himself for the mankind to judge it themselves for what it is. Use wisdom and you will not go wrong that is guaranteed. Stop fearing that Allah will throw you in hell because you made a mistake in understanding the quran. Fear either drives people to discovery or kills their curiosity depending upon which way you are taking it.
From your posts it looks as if your fear stops you from research and exploration of the quran. Please take courage from so many verses that invite wise people to think, so get wise.
May Allah guide us all to his message as it ought to be understood. Kindly do consult my other posts, they may be of help after all we can only learn from each other.
regards and all the best
Last edited:
Dear angryoldman, stop being angry or anger will consume you. just a brotherly advice. Better use your energy in making sense of things that will help all of us.
angryoldman
Minister (2k+ posts)
i always put all my energy for things to get better or solve in better way.but never try to impose my thoughts on others.but i respect ur views but some of them are nonesence.cannot understad. because u try to conclude ur own interpretations of ahdeeths and quran.i m not scholar i m student but know good and evil and wht is between it,when u say dajjal is not person or try to mix up dajjaliyat system with dajjal u actually denying lots of ahadeeths which are concerned abt dajjal's personality.u plz try not to heart many muslims Emaans.i 'll call it distraction.which is very helpfull tool for kuffar against muslims.thx
WatanDost
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Dear
What do you learn about DEEN
from Mirza GA Qadiyanis
one complete book WRITTEN
With WORD [HI]لعنت[/HI]
[HI]LAAN*T[/HI] in it?
Dear angryoldman, word dajjaal is from root DAAL, JEEM and LAAM, it means various things eg confusion, trickery, magic, lie, dispute, journey etc etc. So anyone who does these things is called a DAJJAAL.
The quran is all about rule of Allah on the earth by those who follow his message. However there are people who oppose that message in various ways to try and stop it from becoming a reality or if it is a reality they try to destroy it. In this context the number of such people is more than we can count for as dajjaals.
My problem is not with coming of dajjaals nor about imaam mahdi per se but about 2nd coming of Jesus. Word mahdi is opposite in meaning of word dajjaal. It makes sense that some people fight for divine system of rule and other against it ie it is a constant struggle between good and bad rule for mankind. It is also possible that sometimes things may really get that bad that is why the mention of dajjaal in those reports but in that one has to ask, why there is only one mahdi as oppsed to 30 dajjaals? This only makes sense if we take it to mean that islam once taken over by first dajjaal will never recover till the end of time and only by final mahdi from the final dajjaal. This then means islam is no use because people will never have it as divine rule in place, so what is the point in Allah sending this message that people never going to bring it about?
Coming to story of Jesus we have problem regarding his virgin birth, his being taken up into the heavens alive and coming back.
The quran is not taking these things other than normal as the natural world works. However, a lot of stuff has been borrowed from sources out side the quran as per make beliefs of others and is now part of islamic make belief system.
Anyone who disagrees is condemned without any sensible arguments based on evidence.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX-jxZaI7qY
I do not accept that Jesus was killed or crucified by anyone or that someone else was killed in his place but that it may be misunderstanding of the expression presented as killing and crucifixion of jesus ie his opponents try and kill off his mission by way of his persecution. It is for this reason the quran states that they follow but a ZAN=conjecture. The denial in the quran is not about their attempt at killing off his mission and his persecution but of actual killing him and his being killed on the crosss. Something that we muslims need to understand from the actual text of the quran. It is a very straight forward book that explains away all the mysteries rather than mystifying clear things.
Jesus was raised by Allah to him means he was placed or appointed by Allah to his mission. It has nothing to do with death and crucifixion and raising of jesus from dead nor about raising him to heaven. All these are misunderstanding by people which they tried to back up by inventing hadith etc.
regards and all the best.
Dear babadeena, if you remember we have already had a very long discussion and some people failed to realize the value of rules for understanding things in the quran. All people in that category have the very same problem. Take each verse on its own and forget the rest. There is no reasoning involved in their arguments. It is because it is their belief that rationality should be subordinate to allegedly divine revelations. This has been the debate between rationalist muslim thinker like ibn rushd and ibn sina on one hand and imaam al ghazaali and the like on the other. Imaam ghazaali won people over and since then islamic understanding has been going through decline.
My main argument against that is that if you have two opposite claims from two parties who both rightly or wrongly claim to believe in their divine revelations respectively then how do you decide? This question cannot be answered unless rationality is given its rightful position ie that of above allegedly divine revelations. Only when it is clear that the claim divine revelation is really divine that we may refer to it as such.
This stand is again needed when a people divide eg in case of muslims. It has to be rationality that has to be the basis till it is clear that the quran really supports a position on any issue. If we do not take rationality as basis then we can argue till cows come home but we will never be able to agree on anything regarding islam so ummah will remain divided for ever. Also the appeal of the quran to people for being rational and wise would be useless if we only took what anyone told us about the quran as we have been for a very long time.
It is difficult to see what sort of research and exploration one has done in his life regaring the quran to believe what one believes about it. So I can only assume what people state as to how well they are acquainted with the message of the quran. Anyone who is lakeeri faqeer is not going to understand what a person who has been through a lot of ins and outs in his life time.
So meaningless responses in my view do not deserve more meaningless responses, that is just waste of time.
As it is clear from my post that I work according to certain rules rather than on basis of verses and ahadith and their willy nilly interpretations by people who either deliberately misinterpreted them are out of their ignorance of the context of the message. Most mullas have no sense that the quranic message does have a context. This is only a recent phenomenon after nonmuslim responses to muslim claims that the quran does have a context. Otherwise mullahs will recite and verse take it into ten different direction and people will sit quite listening not raising an eye brow.
So if I do not respond to any posts it is because I can see where the discussion is heading I have whole life time experience to judge that much about my fellow muslims as I have been there myself. All I can do is make dua for all of us and keep sharing my view it may make some sense to some one. Otherwise no body can take that away whatever we already have rightly or wrongly.
Can you please interpret 2/173 for me and prove that your interpretation is correct?
regards and all the best
Dear watan dost, the whole lot of our make beliefs come from other religions if you ever try and trace them. We have managed to muddle up the clear message of the quran by following hindu, parsi, jewish and christian traditions, myths and folklore. To me knowledge is fine so long as it stand scrutiny. There is a big difference between knowledge and having make beliefs that fall apart when scrutinized.
It is therefore better if we try and question people as to what they believe and why than just sit tight because sooner or later if we do not do that soon others will come to us with their stuff and we will not be able to avoid it. People and societies influence each other because you cannot live in isolation so better be leaders than being forced to be followers.
regards and all the best
Dear Mughal1,
I am not interested in what Mullahs says or rationalist say/said or what Imam Ghazali
said, what I am interested is that, the translation which you are quoting is nowhere
nearer to the text of Quran. For the shake of Allah, Dear, how it can be that
Yatamay(orphans) have to be translated as "individuals", and "Ankahoo"(wed)
as something else. The sooner you please leave this translation whosoever he/may
have done, better it is because for me it is virually a "murder" of Quran.
2/173
http://www.quraneasyurdu.net/ps02/ch02f.html#173
Please let me know where you differ on this translation?
thanks.
I am not interested in what Mullahs says or rationalist say/said or what Imam Ghazali
said, what I am interested is that, the translation which you are quoting is nowhere
nearer to the text of Quran. For the shake of Allah, Dear, how it can be that
Yatamay(orphans) have to be translated as "individuals", and "Ankahoo"(wed)
as something else. The sooner you please leave this translation whosoever he/may
have done, better it is because for me it is virually a "murder" of Quran.
2/173
http://www.quraneasyurdu.net/ps02/ch02f.html#173
Please let me know where you differ on this translation?
thanks.
WatanDost
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Yeah i completely AGREE with you
MIRZA Ghulam Ahmeds beliefs come from Hindu, Jewish, Parsi and Christian traditions.
INDEED from SHAITAAN RAJEEM.
LIKE messenger of Shataan who teached Mirza
named "TAICHI, TAICHI" by mirza.
He also forced MIRZA to write word "LAAN*T" in one complete book.
I have two books in my hand
"[HI]
SHAMS UL HIDAYA FI ASBAT E HAYYAT UL MASSEH"
AND
'' SAIF E CHISHTIAAI"
BOTH BY Hazrat Pheer Mehr Ali Shah
[/HI]
JUST GIVE ME A REFRENCE ANSWER OF BOOK 2
DONT NEED YOUR STUPID LECTURES
biomat
Minister (2k+ posts)
Dear [MENTION=7169]babadeena[/MENTION]
Assalam-o-alaikum
Read this "Mughal1 wrote:- Dear angryoldman, word dajjaal is from root DAAL, JEEM and LAAM, it means various things eg confusion, trickery, magic, lie, dispute, journey etc etc. So anyone who does these things is called a DAJJAAL."
See he is using letter & word translation in DAJJAL, and when we presented same rule toward HUDHUD & JINN in Quran, then he is rejecting it..
He is confused. He want to accept Quran & translate it according to LOGIC & SCIENTIFIC RULES..
May ALLAH give him & like minded people HIDAYAT & mee too.
He even didnot replied to my SALAM. See http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?72275-The-dajjal-system&p=451865&viewfull=1#post451865
So again brother WHAT COMMON GROUND YOU WILL USE TO TALK TO HIM regarding Quran Translation..
All tafaseers, Hadith collection are useless according to him. Only IQBAL, SIRSYED & PERVIAZ sahab knows TRUE QURANIC TRANSLATION & WISDOM..
May ALLAH give us all hidayat...
Thank you brother babadeena, could you please explain the context of 2/173 and is it at all related to 2/165? What is the quran talking about in these verses that precede it from 2/165 onwards and what is its relationship with verses after it? Does it make any sense in the context to translate this verse as part of our food chain? How does talking about food fit in talk about community relations and participation?
This is my reason for differing with these translations and interpretations because they interpreted these verses out of their proper contexts. It is therefore clear to me that this verse is not talking about food but partaking of people regarding certain things or their participation. They are told to do all you like any where you like but do not do this and this and that.
If you know grammar, in Arabic AL=the ie it defines the article ie makes it MARFA from NUKRA. When Allah says AL MAITA= a particular kind of dead thing. AL DAM=a particular kind of blood. LAHM AL-KHINZEER= flesh of a particular kind of pig. I would like people to think about it. If I ask any of you, which kind of pig is Allah talking about, I doubt any of you can answer this question, can you? Please quote any hadith you may have about it? Anyone is welcome to answer this question. Also why only that kind of pig is haraam? This is why we need to study the quran ourselves to see what are the problems with quranic translations and interpretations so that we could warn people to avoid them.
On this verse there is no correct translation available at all nor any corrct interpretation. It is for this reason I try to give rough ideas about things so that people who are really interested in doing these things may do them better.
You are welcome to ask any mawlana sb if there is any who could explain this. I have been pointing out problems with quranic translations and interpretations all along and stating rules for this very reason so that we all could understand things. My concern is only to show that there is nothing wrong with quran as I understand it but there are things that have been understood wrongly by all people whose works I have studied. This is how I came to conclusion that the idea that people do not interpret the quran themselves is not true. They all have been interpreting the quran themselves yet said they did not. The problem with masses is that they just accept what mawlvi sb says and think it disrespectful to question what they say. This is what got us in this state of affairs that we find ourselves in.
regards and all the best.
Last edited:
wa alaikum salaam brother biomat and may Allah bless us all with proper understanding of his message. Only Allah knows our intentions and it is he who will reward us accordingly.
Yes, you are right that I want to understand the quran rationally. It is because that way the quran makes better sense to me. I am not using any new rules though. Just using my method of learning about the quran by questioning what makes little or no sense to me and try to come up with an answer. It has served me well our my life time.
I do not say that sir seyyed or iqbal or parwez sb are final word on the quranic interpretation but they are people who clearly realised that understanding the message of the quran is of real importance. I differ on things not on basis of personalities but what makes sense and what does not. If something makes sense then we should be able to explain it as well for the benefit of others also.
As for taair and hudhud, the quran is talking about AL TAAIR and AL HUDHUD, so we have particular kind of birds and from amongst those birds the hud hud is a particular person. Likewise word jin is used as AL-JIN and ins is used as AL-INS. This tells us that the quran is using these words in a particular sense or a special sense not at all in general sense.
regards and all the best
Last edited:
Dear Mughal1,
There is day and night difference in both verses. the subject is different. 2/173 is in
continuation of 172. The addressee in 172 are those who believe.
I think your problem is that you are not approaching Quran from a neutral
position, rather you have one PRE-DETERMINED CONCEPT and wish to adjust
Quran according to your pre-determined concept and that is very dangerous.
Now with the help of "THE" you wish to convey that only "a particular type
of animal" is harram, not all those animals. that is chilling?
regards.
Waaalikumsalaam.
Dear Brother, what I get from all his posts is that:
HE HAS A PRE-DETERMINED AND FIXED CONCEPT and wish
to adjust Quran accordingly. that is the biggest problem.
