Talat Hussain, Imran Khan & The Anarchist

Young_Blood

Minister (2k+ posts)
agar zindagi main right decision kerna ho to kabhi b kisi b insan per blindly trust mat keeya karo,,, chahay wo aap ka siasi leader ho, real brother ho, etc,,,, 65 saal se hamari awaam issi liay ghatay mein hai k wo leaders per blindly trust karti hai,, aur sirf chund months he guzartey hein to ussi siasi leader ko galiyaa dene lag jatay hein,
Kal American Safeer ne british media channel ko interview main kaha k Imran Khan aur Nawaz Sharif america k haami hein,,,, mein b america ka haami hoo,,, magar kin conditions per?
Imran Khan ne haaliya dino main bohat mayoos keeya hai,,, imran khan apne he diay howay bayanat se u-turn le leta hai,,, awaam ke bohat c umeedein hein PTI se,,, aur mujhey ab aisa feel ho raha hai k Imran Khan b issi system ka hissa banta ja raha hai,, jis main KHOUF hota hai k agar ham xyz steps uthaey to koi 3rd power iqtidar sanbhaal lay ge,,, magar imran khan ko yaad rekhna chahiay k awaam ke taqat k samnay koi nahi khara ho sakta,, Imran Khan k haaliya bayanat se waziya dikhai deta hai k wo compromises ker raha hai,,, agar aisa he kerna hai to log phir PTI ko vote kiun dalein,,, un k paas PML (N) jesi strong party majood hai,, main bar bar keh raha hoo Imran Khan ke agar yehi policy rahi to election main bohat ziada nuqsaan uthaey ga,,,,
 

saadkiakaray

Minister (2k+ posts)
when imran did pti 1st sit-in peshawar , this talat n kashif were making fun of him,justifying media blackout as saying ''AAP KIA CHATAIN HAIN ? HUM AAP KO SOTA HOUA BHI DEKHAIN !''BLA BLA .... n know he is cretisizing that why ik is not in DPC rally. such a MUNAFIQ guy !(thumbsdown)
 

insaf-seeker

Minister (2k+ posts)
I know you are hard fan of Imran Khan...

Just imagine If, Imran Khan is not the Real Man... Don't you think its time for be little realistic....


I would explain the situation in a more practical manner, I work for a multinational firm and at my level sometimes I feel I that I can decisions better than my boss, but at the end of the day my boss's decisions turn out to be correct, because he has much more experience than me and he as at better position to understand the situation more than me.

Same is the case with IK, he is a leader and he has access to much more information than us, a leader never follows the sentiment of the public. By definition a leader is a person who knows the way, shows the way and goes the way.

I think we should trust him and follow him, at least we can't doubt his intent!!
 

indigo

Siasat.pk - Blogger
No it was written by a friend..... here is its prequel



My Initial Statement on Anarchy

Some of you may have happened to note on my Info page under "Political Views", I have stated, "I am an anarchist."

I first had the idea that I COULD be an anarchist in about 2007. My boyfriend at the time said that he was an anarchist. We didn't have long discussions about this or anything, but it was just interesting to me because I didn't know anybody else ...who out-and-out identified themselves as an anarchist (OTHER people were anarchists). It was strange to me to begin with, but it was a seed planted in me and after a while it didn't seem as strange.
In fact, I eventually realized I had always been an anarchist, or at least an incipient one, from at least the age of 18 when I consciously selected my political outlook at the time (at the age of 18, I identified myself as a Constitutionalist). Of course, since then I have read many things, had many experiences, encountered many people that have developed my thinking and view point. I'm not the same person I was then, that I was 10 or 5 years ago. And I will be different again in the future amount of time.

But--I am an anarchist.
I'm still thinking through this. Not so much about WHETHER to be an anarchist . . . but HOW.

So I am going to write a few basics here that are the foundation of my thinking, hopefully to clarify to myself, and I welcome any feedback and for the opportunity to add to my understanding, or even correct it. Some of these things I've known for a long, long time . . . other things I've come to realize much more recently.

The etymology of the word "anarchy" is Greek and it means, or at least meant originally, "without ruler". Or as paraphrased in my favorite etymology online source, "the state of people without a government".

I have very little knowledge in the history of the development of movements of anarchy in the world, and I'm also not that interested in them. It may be that I would have some things in common, but it is also just as likely I would not. I can only share what my purpose is.

The following is very crucial to understand from my viewpoint what anarchy is (and is not) to me, and why I choose it: this: anarchy is NOT the absence of LAW.

Repeat: anarchy is NOT the absence of LAW.

In fact, I choose anarchy because I find in it the best hope and chance FOR THE PRESENCE OF LAW in the life and society of human beings.

I do not consider government, particularly that form of government in vogue these days called the nation-state (nor any other similarly defective invention of mankind), to be a vessel of law. Government is not a vessel or instrument of law, of order, of safety, of justice, of mercy, of peace, or of freedom; or at least not to the degree that is the actual potential of human beings for these things. Government, and the state VIOLATE law, justice, order, safety, mercy, peace, freedom (etc) on a daily basis . . . and while it may have been the best thing we could come up with thus far as a planet, for God's sake let's not stop here. There's more to learn.

There is no human being on this planet who I accept as my ruler, nor will I. There is no human being nor collection of human beings who should rule over another, there is no human being nor collection of humans who should be making choices for another. I am responsible for myself before God, or if there is one who says he does not believe in God, then we are each responsible for ourselves before humanity.

People who are uncomfortable with anarchy, or what they are thinking is anarchy to them, speak about people who commit crimes and if we had no government, these kinds of people would have free reign. A full answer to this is too much for this already very long "initial statement on anarchy". Hopefully I can delve into that more in future writings. However, WHO shall say which human beings have violated law? Which OTHER PERSON besides myself shall say I have done wrong? WHO IS SMARTER than me? (No human is that smart, not me, not anyone). WHO DECIDES WHO IS THE SMARTEST and makes the laws and makes a government and gets to rule? These exercises lead to the realization that we are ALL . . . people . . . no one is that smart, no one is that good, no one is that much to judge another, we can barely take care of themselves.

In anarchy the laws are the same as in monarchy or democracy or any state. For example, Thou shalt not kill. The law doesn't change just because someone embraces anarchy as the form for society. There has to be SOME response to any human being who either deliberately or by some deficiency choose to kill (for our example law). So do not imagine that anarchy is response-less to these things. But the STATE is an inappropriate, deficient response to murderers, and quite often becomes a murderer. So consenting to the STATE and clinging to it as an answer to murderers (as an example only) IS hardly an answer.

There may be no GOVERNMENT in anarchy, but there IS . . . GOVERNING. There is the nurture of LAW and ORDER. The antidote to the STATE, the antidote to government . . . the basic format for the expression of anarchy (which is just a word after all) . . . is COMMUNITY.

Well, this is enough for a beginning. Obviously, so much could be said. But this is the beginning.



OUTSTANDING... A standing ovation! @indigo did you write it or did Talat write this?

Lately I have been reading about Brownian Motion and financial markets. The ANARCHIST argument reminds me of the Brownian Motion... haphazard yet with a clear quantitative pattern...
 
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Temojin

Minister (2k+ posts)
Bang on! I have since long been "whining actually" that PTI talks about change but is doing almost the same things as other parties so it should be criticized the most for party's own health but unfortunately its followers are behaving the same like jiyalas of PPP and matwalas of N League. You talk about any act of bhutto, a justification pops out and you talk about any of the wrongdoings of Nawaz, there would be a lame sentence waiting but you talk about Imran's shortcomings and you'll not get a justification but an explosive filled with abusive language and useless emoticons like :lol:[hilar] etc. and that would be the end of discussion because there would be and endless array of the same from a number of people and the discussion would be derailed.

One of my mates here [MENTION=23545]insaf-seeker[/MENTION] is talking about corporate structure and decisions taken by bosses. Mates (specially you my mate), corporate decisions are always made to suck as much out of employees and people as it can be and they are never for the benefit of people but those who control money invested in the market and in the corporation. Some times you might see decisions which seem good at first but when you look at the history and outcomes of those decisions, you'd be amazed at what grounds they were made. [MENTION=24375]AsifAmeer[/MENTION] can explain it to you better as he is far well-versed in these issues than I am. Asif talks about goods of capitalism to some extent but he never endorses corporate structures, their decisions and their outcomes which he shows us every now and then in his articles and threads related to today's economic condition. And a country can never be run like a corporate giant, never, it has been almost thus for the past decades and you can see the outcome.
 

Muskerahat

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Ch Shujat said. Saudi arbia and uae also asked us open the Natto suply. Talat sahib i respect you but you also have to write some thign about thease islamic countries. why they want us do that. spacaily Saudia where all muslim go for Hajj. what did pmln? Imran khan not in power he doing best what he can.
 

AsifAmeer

Siasat.pk - Blogger
Combine the article of this thread with my views mentioned here
If I am smart, I will work for my benefits. Not yours... and especially if I dont even know you.. If someone is smart, and he wants to become a leader, he has interests aligned that way. Once a leader, he isnt going to "work for the people". Unless he is some Sattar Edhi.. lekin people like them will never wanna be a "leader"

What I kinda find interesting is these OLD OLD Multinational firms like Coca Cola, Goldman Sachs, General Electric, they have leadership too.. And they have an amazing track record of delivering leadership to their respective companies. How/Why? Now compare that to the way Govts have performed in the last 100 years. Try coming up with a single example that has maintained excellence for 100 years.

I dont know exactly how these companies do it. I have studied a bit about Goldman Sachs management selecting CEOs and COO. And I find it kinda ironic that it looks very "Islamic" .. Weired.. isnt it?
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...rry-Lugar-Bill&p=918084&viewfull=1#post918084

And then later I give an example of MALTA. My thoughts are not well versed yet on this matter lekin they may grow as time goes by. Maybe countries can be run like Corporations if its in a managable size. Again, I dont know.. but definitely something to think about



Bang on! I have since long been "whining actually" that PTI talks about change but is doing almost the same things as other parties so it should be criticized the most for party's own health but unfortunately its followers are behaving the same like jiyalas of PPP and matwalas of N League. You talk about any act of bhutto, a justification pops out and you talk about any of the wrongdoings of Nawaz, there would be a lame sentence waiting but you talk about Imran's shortcomings and you'll not get a justification but an explosive filled with abusive language and useless emoticons like :lol:[hilar] etc. and that would be the end of discussion because there would be and endless array of the same from a number of people and the discussion would be derailed.

One of my mates here @insaf-seeker is talking about corporate structure and decisions taken by bosses. Mates (specially you my mate), corporate decisions are always made to suck as much out of employees and people as it can be and they are never for the benefit of people but those who control money invested in the market and in the corporation. Some times you might see decisions which seem good at first but when you look at the history and outcomes of those decisions, you'd be amazed at what grounds they were made. @AsifAmeer can explain it to you better as he is far well-versed in these issues than I am. Asif talks about goods of capitalism to some extent but he never endorses corporate structures, their decisions and their outcomes which he shows us every now and then in his articles and threads related to today's economic condition. And a country can never be run like a corporate giant, never, it has been almost thus for the past decades and you can see the outcome.
 

indigo

Siasat.pk - Blogger
Well, you are right. 'its out of context', it is because, from past few weeks I have a feeling that PTI is not doing so well, and im slightly disappointed by Imran Khan policies, I had expectation, that he will educate nation and will not make compromises, he will be brave, let me tell you, I have very little problems with Imran Khan's ideology, but Imran Khan does not open his ideology in public or make it clear for nation to understand what is truth, I pasted this article in assumption that if Imran Khan as we know him, is not among us anymore, then instead of looking for another ruler or another system, we should make our self at large honest and peaceful... and thats how we will get a better ruler and a better system and that's why i shared this article.....

I am fan of Talat Hussain also. There have been times when I criticized IK. I will still insist that the extract posted above is out of context.

Watch this video you may understand what im talking about...

 

insaf-seeker

Minister (2k+ posts)
One of my mates here @insaf-seeker is talking about corporate structure and decisions taken by bosses. Mates (specially you my mate), corporate decisions are always made to suck as much out of employees and people as it can be and they are never for the benefit of people but those who control money invested in the market and in the corporation. Some times you might see decisions which seem good at first but when you look at the history and outcomes of those decisions, you'd be amazed at what grounds they were made. @AsifAmeer can explain it to you better as he is far well-versed in these issues than I am. Asif talks about goods of capitalism to some extent but he never endorses corporate structures, their decisions and their outcomes which he shows us every now and then in his articles and threads related to today's economic condition. And a country can never be run like a corporate giant, never, it has been almost thus for the past decades and you can see the outcome.

You got me wrong, I never said that a country should be governed like a corporate, what I said was that your leader is always in a better position to look much ahead than your vision. So what you can do is either change your leader or trust him, in my case I trust IK just because he is a leader by every definition of the word LEADER.
 

AsifAmeer

Siasat.pk - Blogger
Well thats a bummer.. coz I was hoping to get something thoughtful out of you.

I usually dont bring religion up lekin I think it serves a fundamental concept here. In Islam the key principle is "No god BUT Allah". Rumi goes on to say that the spirit of our Creator lives within every one of us, in our conscious. Question is, why would I surrender my commonsense and sovereignty to someone else when I know that no one... NO mortal is worthy of complete trust.

Leader is NEVER in a position to see everything. Thats the dynamics of Power.. And maybe [MENTION=23319]Temojin[/MENTION] can shed some light on it too.

We all are responsible for making decisions. And if its a well brought-up principled nation, the collective decisions will manifest itself in the society as a whole...

You got me wrong, I never said that a country should be governed like a corporate, what I said was that your leader is always in a better position to look much ahead than your vision. So what you can do is either change your leader or trust him, in my case I trust IK just because he is a leader by every definition of the word LEADER.
 

saaraaab

Councller (250+ posts)
sonami khan wohi kar sakta hae jiss kee ijazat ussay fauji daytay hain. shah mehmood, khursheed qasoori, jahangeer tareen, sardar asif ahmad ali, ye loog to esteblishment kay issharay kay bina apnay bachay bhi paida nahi kertay[hilar]:lol: mian mehmood ur rasheed, zaheer abbas khokhar,karamat ali khokhar johar town kay namwer qabza group, abdur rasheed bhatti kam am kam 20 qatal kee FIRS hain iss per,chaudhary ijaz aik currupt insaan jissay corruption per jamat e islami say nikala gayya ab ye sab PTI kay jagmagatay sitaray hain
 

Temojin

Minister (2k+ posts)
insaf-seeker AsifAmeer

That is why I assert upon reading the comment of the person you are intending to answer properly than for the sake or answering.

As always, I would reiterate that it is necessary for a leader's credibility and health (moral) that he should be criticized upon. Only the actions of Prophets A.S are exempted from this rule as being Muslims we know that their actions completely represent Allah's will. Otherwise, From AbuBakr R.A to Ali R.A uttered the first sentences after praising Allah and Muhammad pbuh which indicated that they should be questioned for each and every action they make and if people find anything objectionable, they should stand up and question them firmly.

Apart from religious understanding, this concept of an omnipotent leader who is complete in all senses actually makes one hitler or a pharaoh, even if we don't go up to that level, we might make another bhutto or sharif out of imran by opting for this behaviour.

And about countries running like corporate giants, ever heard about NWO or the one-world government. It would be the world's biggest corporate entity which would control various parts of the world as its departments and it would surely not be a good experience for citizens. We have already seen diminished and compromised civil and human rights after WWI and WWII in the name of laws for a better time which also include formation of central reserves and evolution of banking systems. Well! A lot to talk but then again, we should be amenable to different aspects and perspectives than being adamant upon our likes and dislikes (till it hits our religious beliefs , them too which we know are true by research and reading, not that what we were told when we were born).
 

insaf-seeker

Minister (2k+ posts)
Well thats a bummer.. coz I was hoping to get something thoughtful out of you.

I usually dont bring religion up lekin I think it serves a fundamental concept here. In Islam the key principle is "No god BUT Allah". Rumi goes on to say that the spirit of our Creator lives within every one of us, in our conscious. Question is, why would I surrender my commonsense and sovereignty to someone else when I know that no one... NO mortal is worthy of complete trust.

Leader is NEVER in a position to see everything. Thats the dynamics of Power.. And maybe @Temojin can shed some light on it too.

We all are responsible for making decisions. And if its a well brought-up principled nation, the collective decisions will manifest itself in the society as a whole...

Well I think you are not getting my point, I didn't say to follow anyone blindly though I can debate on this in religious context, however my focus is only on one thing that is IK has a history of making correct decisions whether it was WC1992, or dreaming about SKMH even boycotting 2008 elections and I was one of those people who criticized this decision and now I admit that IK was right.

IK knows that he is not too far from becoming next PM, and he doesn't want any anarchy by calling people on streets, because that would simply invite army to take over. He can stop the Nato supply for a short time by demonstrations but that is not the permanent solution to Pakistan's crises. He knows he has to sacrifice little things to achieve bigger goal.
 

shaheedchoudry

Minister (2k+ posts)
Well, you are right. 'its out of context', it is because, from past few weeks I have a feeling that PTI is not doing so well, and im slightly disappointed by Imran Khan policies, I had expectation, that he will educate nation and will not make compromises, he will be brave, let me tell you, I have very little problems with Imran Khan's ideology, but Imran Khan does not open his ideology in public or make it clear for nation to understand what is truth, I pasted this article in assumption that if Imran Khan as we know him, is not among us anymore, then instead of looking for another ruler or another system, we should make our self at large honest and peaceful... and thats how we will get a better ruler and a better system and that's why i shared this article.....



Watch this video you may understand what im talking about...

Mr. Gamdi is right on the spot. No normal person can disagree with him on this. But when you try to relate this to IK, its not making any sense.
There are people who call Imran Talban Khan and there are some who consider him Jew agent. Which group should we trust? You are complaining about Imran making comprises. No comprise on the ideology but few compromises on strategy just like our beloved Prophetpbuh made.
 

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