Speak the truth even if it is bitter

[Wake up Pak]

If someone collects your sayings and actions in a book, would it be man-made? There's a difference between man-made and man-collected. Learn that first. Also learn the history and process of hadith. Just because there exists some books well sorted and in proper book form does not mean it was "written" by some man hundreds of years later. And Hadith were being collected in the very time of prophet on stones, books, leaves, etc and passed on.

The confusion is also that you do not understand how hadith works and what grading in hadith means.

In general questioning authenticity of hadiths is perfectly fine, for example I may not agree with some ahadiths especially in Kitab ul Fitn or in some other books, but that has to be done on individual basis and taking a full view of issue at hand, for e.g. a hadith in tirmizi says without bismillah wudu is not valid, which is questionable but it does not mean all hadith are incorrect. A blanket ban like you are imposing is itself illogical and non sensical and it's coming from some cultist point of view you seem to have developed on Hadith to reject everything without exception. It's not like prophet muhammad SAW exists before times of recorded history. Even on a worldly basis, this is scientifically illogical to believe sayings of one of the most important personality were not recorded at any level.

You are not alone. There are many non muslims who superficially reject Quran also because they "apparently" get lost in translation and find opposing statements here there.

A little education won't hurt before passing illogical conclusions.

Just one verse from the Quran demolishes your fake narrative.

For those people, who follow other than the Quran, here is a very clear verse from Allah the Almighty.

7:3 Follow, [O mankind], what has been revealed to you from your Lord, and do not follow other than Him any allies. Little do you remember.
What has been revealed? Obviously, the Quran.

 

[Shimaz]

Just one verse from the Quran demolishes your fake narrative.

For those people, who follow other than the Quran, here is a very clear verse from Allah the Almighty.

7:3 Follow, [O mankind], what has been revealed to you from your Lord, and do not follow other than Him any allies. Little do you remember.
What has been revealed? Obviously, the Quran.

The quran clearly instructs muslims to follow the prophet:
O those who believe, obey Allâh and His Messenger and do not turn away from him, while you are listening. (8:20)

And that verse 7:3 addresses issue of shirk and there isn't a single hadith that would preache shirk, but you would know if you understood even the dictionary level difference between man-made vs. man collected.

Just desperately trying to enforce a handpicked verse to own flawed interpretation.

 

[Wake up Pak]

The quran clearly instructs muslims to follow the prophet:
O those who believe, obey Allâh and His Messenger and do not turn away from him, while you are listening. (8:20)

And that verse 7:3 addresses issue of shirk and there isn't a single hadith that would preache shirk, but you would know if you understood even the dictionary level difference between man-made vs. man collected.

Just desperately trying to enforce a handpicked verse to own flawed interpretation.

Explain how this verse instructs Muslims to follow the Prophet.

 

[Wake up Pak]

The quran clearly instructs muslims to follow the prophet:
O those who believe, obey Allâh and His Messenger and do not turn away from him, while you are listening. (8:20)

And that verse 7:3 addresses issue of shirk and there isn't a single hadith that would preache shirk, but you would know if you understood even the dictionary level difference between man-made vs. man collected.

Just desperately trying to enforce a handpicked verse to own flawed interpretation.

The Word Hadith in The Quran


The following is a list of the occurrence of the word hadith/hadeeth and how its used in The Quran/Koran.

Possible meanings of the word hadith = narrations, sayings, words, speech, opinions, statement, utterance, discourse, account and tale.

There are 26 occurrences of the word hadith in The Quran and they are shown below. Please remember to read the context (surrounding verses) as this is crucial to understanding the actual verse:



On that day those who rejected and disobeyed the messenger will desire that the earth will swallow them; but they cannot hide any hadith from GOD. [4:42]

Wherever you may be, death will find you, even if you are in fortified towers. If any good befalls them, they say: "This is from God," and if any bad befalls them, they say: "This is from you!" Say: "All is from God;" what is wrong with these people, they barely understand a hadith! [4:78]

GOD, there is no god but He. He will gather you for the day of resurrection in which there is no doubt. Who is more truthful in hadith than GOD?. [4:87]

And it has been sent down to you in the book, that if you hear GOD's verses being rejected in and ridiculed in, then do not sit with them until they move on to a different hadith; if not, then you are like them. GOD will gather the hypocrites and the disbelievers in hell all together [4:140]

And if you see those who meddle in Our verses, then turn away from them until they meddle in a different hadith; and if the devil lets you forget, then do not sit after remembering with the wicked people [6:68]

Did they not look at the dominion of heavens and earth, and all that GOD has created?. Perhaps their time is coming near; so in which hadith after this will they have faith? [7:185]

And it is such that your Lord Has chosen you, and He teaches you the interpretation of hadith, and He completes His blessings upon you and upon the family of Jacob, as He completed it for your fathers before that, Abraham and Isaac. your Lord is Knowing, Wise. [12:6]

And the one from Egypt who bought him said to his wife: 'make his stay generous, perhaps he will benefit us or we make take him as a son'. And it was thus that We established Joseph in the land and to teach him the interpretation of hadith. And GOD Has full power over His affairs, but most of mankind do not know. [12:21]

'My Lord, you have given me sovereignty and taught me the interpretations of hadith. Initiator of the heavens and earth, you are my protector in this world and the hereafter. Make me die a Submitter, and join me with the good doers'. [12:101]

In their stories is a lesson for the people of intelligence. It was not a hadith that was invented, but an authentication of what is already present and a detailing of all things, and a guidance and mercy to a people who have faith. [12:111]

Perhaps you will torment yourself in grief over them, because they will not believe in this hadith at all. [18:6]

And did the hadith of Moses come to you? [20:9]

Then We sent Our messengers in succession. Every time there came to a nation their messenger, they denied him. So We made them follow one another, and We made them a hadith. So away with a people who do not believe. [23:44]

And from the people, there are those who accept baseless hadith to mislead from the path of GOD without knowledge, and takes it as entertainment. Those will have a humiliating retribution. [31:6]

 

[Shimaz]

Explain how this verse instructs Muslims to follow the Prophet.

Explain the difference between man made vs man collected.

 

[Wake up Pak]

Explain the difference between man made vs man collected.

Just answer what I have asked you about the verse you quoted from the Quran.
Man-made or man collected the same difference.

 

[Wake up Pak]

Explain the difference between man made vs man collected.

The book is revealed in detail, so if you deny this verse, then you are denying Allah.

6:114 'Shall I seek a judge other than God, when He is the One who revealed to you the Book, explained in detail?' Those to whom We gave the Book know that it is the truth revealed from your Lord. So do not be of those who doubt

 

[Shimaz]

Just answer what I have asked you about the verse you quoted from the Quran.
Man-made or man collected the same difference.

Right - So you can't tell difference between something collected by a person vs. something invented by a person? It's all the same to you genius. May be you can publish Einstein's works in your name and call it same difference right?.

Here's an apple for you. Or call it an Aeroplane if you please. Same difference.

 

[Shimaz]

SAME DIFFERENCE

SAME DIFFERENCE

SAME DIFFERENCE

SAME DIFFERENCE

 

[Shimaz]

SAME DIFFERENCE

 

[Wake up Pak]

Right - So you can't tell difference between something collected by a person vs. something invented by a person? It's all the same to you genius. May be you can publish Einstein's works in your name and call it same difference right?.

Here's an apple for you. Or call it an Aeroplane if you please. Same difference.

You people are actually denier of Quran.
When you have no logical reason to reply then you resort to nonsense.

 

[Shimaz]

You people are actually denier of Quran.
When you have no logical reason to reply then you resort to nonsense.

Lol. Right. When ran out of logical reasoning, jumped straight to fatwas. Typical.

I can see you are feeling the heat seeing your foolish arguments turned on yourself. Educate yourself to avoid that humiliation for future. Your situation is that you can't even tell difference between invention and a collection and you want to argue over something you don't know ABC of. It is all the same to you isn't it? Inventions, creations, collections, apples, oranges, galaxies.

Also:
There isn't anything like denier of Quran and accepter of Hadith. It does not work like that.
But there is very definitely a cult that rejects sunnah and quran in name of only accepting Quran and applying it in distorting sense wherever they see fit. You are that kind.

I am Alhamdulillah accepter of Quran, All of it, and sunnah and hadith.

I gave you a pretty logical reasoning of how hadith works and questioning it is completely acceptable when done properly, but not in a blind foolish way of even going against the basic scientific probability but that did not do any good to you to question your cult.

Last thing, denying all Sunnah and Hadith completely A-Z, fully, comprehensively, in a blanket statement makes you an apostate as opposed to whatever claim you may make.

You say yourself you reject all sunnah and hadith - all of it.

I didn't say it. I accept all of Quran and sunnah and Hadith and as i said, depending on health of hadith authenticity can be questioned but it works on case by case basis.

Funny thing is, Man made and man collected is all the same to you but quran and hadith are two separate things to you although Sahaba used to learn Quran by seeing and following prophet's actions and words. Hypocritical much? To any muslim they both are two side of same coin but as i said rejecting hadith takes you straight out of that fold.

Enjoy. It's all the same to you (wherever you see fit).

 

[Wake up Pak]

Lol. Right. When ran out of logical reasoning, jumped straight to fatwas. Typical.

I can see you are feeling the heat seeing your foolish arguments turned on yourself. Educate yourself to avoid that humiliation for future. Your situation is that you can't even tell difference between invention and a collection and you want to argue over something you don't know ABC of. It is all the same to you isn't it? Inventions, creations, collections, apples, oranges, galaxies.

Also:
There isn't anything like denier of Quran and accepter of Hadith. It does not work like that.
But there is very definitely a cult that rejects sunnah and quran in name of only accepting Quran and applying it in distorting sense wherever they see fit. You are that kind.

I am Alhamdulillah accepter of Quran, All of it, and sunnah and hadith.

I gave you a pretty logical reasoning of how hadith works and questioning it is completely acceptable when done properly, but not in a blind foolish way of even going against the basic scientific probability but that did not do any good to you to question your cult.

Last thing, denying all Sunnah and Hadith completely A-Z, fully, comprehensively, in a blanket statement makes you an apostate as opposed to whatever claim you may make.

You say yourself you reject all sunnah and hadith - all of it.

I didn't say it. I accept all of Quran and sunnah and Hadith and as i said, depending on health of hadith authenticity can be questioned but it works on case by case basis.

Funny thing is, Man made and man collected is all the same to you but quran and hadith are two separate things to you although Sahaba used to learn Quran by seeing and following prophet's actions and words. Hypocritical much? To any muslim they both are two side of same coin but as i said rejecting hadith takes you straight out of that fold.

Enjoy. It's all the same to you (wherever you see fit).

Whatever you wrote makes absolutely no sense. I wonder if you have a bit of reasoning left in you to counter the argument with logic and rationale.
If you believe in Quran, and read it with a good translation, then the verse I quoted above, should have been sufficient to reject all the man-made stuff you follow.
Once again, for your closed mind to ponder and reflect.

For those people, who follow other than the Quran, here is a very clear verse from Allah the Almighty.

7:3 Follow, [O mankind], what has been revealed to you from your Lord, and do not follow other than Him any allies. Little do you remember.
What has been revealed? The Quran.

 

[Shimaz]

Whatever you wrote makes absolutely no sense. I wonder if you have a bit of reasoning left in you to counter the argument with logic and rationale.
If you believe in Quran, and read it with a good translation, then the verse I quoted above, should have been sufficient to reject all the man-made stuff you follow.
Once again, for your closed mind to ponder and reflect.

For those people, who follow other than the Quran, here is a very clear verse from Allah the Almighty.

7:3 Follow, [O mankind], what has been revealed to you from your Lord, and do not follow other than Him any allies. Little do you remember.
What has been revealed? The Quran.

No. I agree. It should not make any sense to apostates.

 

[Shimaz]

Fate of people who reject either of Allah (Quran) or Sunnah (prophet SAW) is clearly sealed by the Quran itself. Allah has made it mandatory Himself for muslims to obey Him AND His messenger. This isn't a choice.

 

[Wake up Pak]

The quran clearly instructs muslims to follow the prophet:
O those who believe, obey Allâh and His Messenger and do not turn away from him, while you are listening. (8:20)

You still have not replied to this verse as to where it says to follow Prophet Mohammad

No. I agree. It should not make any sense to apostates.

You must be a follower of this bearded goat moron mullah.
The Quran is a guide for mankind!
Who gave him the right to call anyone an apostate who does not believe in all the ahadith or Sunnah?

 

[Shimaz]

You still have not replied to this verse as to where it says to follow Prophet Mohammad

You must be a follower of this bearded goat moron mullah.
The Quran is a guide for mankind!
Who gave him the right to call anyone an apostate who does not believe in all the ahadith or Sunnah?

O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you.

"Whoever does not believe in Allah and His Messenger, We have prepared a blaze for the unbelievers."Al-Qur'an 48:13

Well thanks for posting it. What he said certainly is true.

Here's why: If you used your brain you claim you use, you'd know it's right there in the Shahadah of a muslim: 'there is no God but Allah and Muhammad SAW is his messenger". You think Allah didn't know people like you will spring up to distort message of Quran because Sunnah stands to protect it? Obviously He did. And so the Quran several times, explicitly orders muslims to follow Allah and his Prophet Muhammad SAW. Allegiance to both is must. In itself the Quran is has also reached us thru the spoken words of Prophet SAW, which makes it hadith also, just that it's conceptually separated. But your hypocrisy forces you to reject his Sunnah. And just like Quran was saved in hearts, stones, papers, etc, Sunnah was too!

Why you are an apostate: As you clearly say you only believe in Quran and reject Sunnah, i.e. one part of the Shahadah, i,e, There is no God but not in the latter part about prophet, i.e. reject his sunnah, his hadith, his words completely/fully/without exception, you automatically become an apostate. There is no rocket science.

I have given plenty logical arguments to you but all you have is talk of jahaliat, cursing people and venting out your frustration instead of putting up a sensible word, because you don't have it in first place. That happens when you follow cults blindly, and why? because sunnah is so difficult, so you cultists decided to abandon the it completely so tomorrow you can say Quran does not even tell us how to pray, so why even pray. That's the reason you invented this cult. Oh btw that's what man made means. Got it?

 

[Wake up Pak]

O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you.

"Whoever does not believe in Allah and His Messenger, We have prepared a blaze for the unbelievers."Al-Qur'an 48:13

Well thanks for posting it. What he said certainly is true.

Here's why: If you used your brain you claim you use, you'd know it's right there in the Shahadah of a muslim: 'there is no God but Allah and Muhammad SAW is his messenger". You think Allah didn't know people like you will spring up to distort message of Quran because Sunnah stands to protect it? Obviously He did. And so the Quran several times, explicitly orders muslims to follow Allah and his Prophet Muhammad SAW. Allegiance to both is must. In itself the Quran is has also reached us thru the spoken words of Prophet SAW, which makes it hadith also, just that it's conceptually separated. But your hypocrisy forces you to reject his Sunnah. And just like Quran was saved in hearts, stones, papers, etc, Sunnah was too!

Why you are an apostate: As you clearly say you only believe in Quran and reject Sunnah, i.e. one part of the Shahadah, i,e, There is no God but not in the latter part about prophet, i.e. reject his sunnah, his hadith, his words completely/fully/without exception, you automatically become an apostate. There is no rocket science.

I have given plenty logical arguments to you but all you have is talk of jahaliat, cursing people and venting out your frustration instead of putting up a sensible word, because you don't have it in first place. That happens when you follow cults blindly, and why? because sunnah is so difficult, so you cultists decided to abandon the it completely so tomorrow you can say Quran does not even tell us how to pray, so why even pray. That's the reason you invented this cult. Oh btw that's what man made means. Got it?

Why do you have to keep writing nonsense all the time?
People like you have zero tolerance for other person's perspectives and right away starts to issue religious edicts as if it would bother me.

Can you answer me about this verse?

4:64 We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by God's leave. Had they, when they wronged themselves, come to you, and prayed for God's forgiveness, and the Messenger had prayed for their forgiveness, they would have found God Relenting and Merciful


copied
The Quran repeatedly announces obedience to the messenger. The Quran never conveys the instruction to obey the Nabi or Muhammad, albeit, they are the same person. The significance of this specific address by the title 'messenger' is often not appreciated. The 'message' (Quran) remained connected to the 'messenger' and it was in this capacity of the 'messenger' that Mohammad (PBUH) needed to be obeyed.

 

[Shimaz]

Why do you have to keep writing nonsense all the time?
People like you have zero tolerance for other person's perspectives and right away starts to issue religious edicts as if it would bother me.

Can you answer me about this verse?

4:64 We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by God's leave. Had they, when they wronged themselves, come to you, and prayed for God's forgiveness, and the Messenger had prayed for their forgiveness, they would have found God Relenting and Merciful


copied
The Quran repeatedly announces obedience to the messenger. The Quran never conveys the instruction to obey the Nabi or Muhammad, albeit, they are the same person. The significance of this specific address by the title 'messenger' is often not appreciated. The 'message' (Quran) remained connected to the 'messenger' and it was in this capacity of the 'messenger' that Mohammad (PBUH) needed to be obeyed.

It's clear you can't talk with logic.

All i wrote was verses from Quran with proof that obeying Allah and his prophet is must for a muslim and all you have to answer in return is abuses, curses, and distortion of Quran to support your claim of rejecting my Prophet's recorded life.

No person with real love for prophet can even think of rejecting him. Need any more proof why you are an apostate?

 

[Wake up Pak]

It's clear you can't talk with logic.

All i wrote was verses from Quran with proof that obeying Allah and his prophet is must for a muslim and all you have to answer in return is abuses, curses, and distortion of Quran to support your claim of rejecting my Prophet's recorded life.

No person with real love for prophet can even think of rejecting him. Need any more proof why you are an apostate?

Not in the mood to argue with a brain-dead blind follower.