sher khan bhai :)
sher_khan said:
However, this economic progress of india is being financed by the poor Indians, which include low caste people who hardly get paid for their labour and eat rats, and the poor people on the east end of India (Maoists) who dont get paid for their resources (mineral, forests etc.). This unfair economic structure is already causing problems for India as evident from the Maoist India and push backs from the scheduled caste people.
1. hmmm..."economic progress being financed by the poor Indians, which include low caste people who hardly get paid for their resources..."
My friend, services sector is the main engine of growth for India. The
new economy is driving the growth. Most of the mining companies are government owned.
Tata Steel is a private company, and the work they have done for the development of tribals is exemplary.
2. Maoists took up arms because of the injustices they suffered, no doubt, due to poor law and order situation and incompetence of the government.
3. Just for your knowledge, reservations and quotas in educational institutions, government jobs and legislature has significantly improved the condition of dalits since independence, but, there is no denying the fact that mistreatment and exploitation still occurs.
Again, by passing laws etc. the intention of the government is clear and it will take a few generations for this social evil to completely disappear.
Like i wrote earlier, Mayawati is the Chief minister of a major state, and even people belonging to other castes voted for her.
sher_khan said:
Indias progress will be slower as compared to Brazil, Russia and China due to the unfair economic structure within India. It will take forever for India to become a developed country.
4. :lol: India is one of the fastest growing economies, and the second fastest growing among the BRIC nations. India and China played a major role in dampening the recession and in bringing the world out of recession, i think the World Bank chief said this.
You are entitled to your views though...
sher_khan said:
Mainly because unlike other countries of BRIC, India is not improving the standard of living of its own people due to unfair wages of the low caste (over 200 million people in rural areas) and ill treatment of the MAOIST neighbourhoods (100s of million people). India may never become a developed country at all.
5. Government has schemes like NREGA (National Rural Employment guarantee act), which provide 100 days work to rural folks in a year. Of course, some state governments implement this schemes better than others.
6. My friend, as you were discussing with people in the other thread about the number of people under poverty line...in the 1990s around 55% were below poverty line, right now the figure is 43%.
Yes, China did a hundred times better job than us, but, the figure does speak for itself.
My friend, India is a poor nation, but it is not a nation of beggars. There is a difference between poor people and beggars...i hope you know this.
We take loans, not aid/grants...
Self respect...Swabhiman...Ghairat...
But i guess sitting in Canada, a developed nation, you won't know of this...???
sher_khan said:
Source of stability? What about Kashmir, Talenagana, Maoist areas, etc? These conflicts are not a part of some pathetic bollywood movie. These unstable conflicts are real and are currently taking place as I write this post.
7. Do you really know anything about the Telangana issue???
Its similar to Saraiki's asking for a separate state in South Punjab. In this case separate state doesn't mean they want independence from Pakistan (Land of the Pure).
Telangana is a similar issue. They want the state of Andra Pradesh to be bifurcated.
8. You are right about Maoists, they are a drag on progress. But, i think Kashmir is a different animal. I personally am not in favour of resolving this conflict, i think this issue should be allowed to fester.
Pakistan should continue to spend a major part of its GDP on the Army, and let US money and NGO's build the schools etc. where children can get a secular education, and also such schools etc. will not be under the direct influence of the Pakistani
establishment.
sher_khan said:
You have hit the heart of the problem. The supporters of developing and stable India see it only from where they live. It may be very financially and physically stable where your office is in Pune. Unfortunately, you cant paint the picture of the whole of India based on your glimpses of Pune, which represents a very small fraction of India. Similarly, you cant determine and project the future progress of your country based on the progress of your urban centers only. There is a huge component of India that is represented by the rural masses which continue to be ignored and mistreated. The standard of living of this Indian component is at status quo and shows no present or possible future progress.
India is so fragile that IPL related comments of a muslim bollywood actor have a potential of causing riots by the militant hindus.
9. You are right, but, the media does show us a glimpse of rural India and the have nots.
As i said earlier, Shining India is a relative term. India is you can say relatively better off than before.
Buddy, atleast I am still in my country, and not abroad.
10. Yes, militant Hindus did demonstrate against SRK, but, who came out in his support? Ordinary people.
By the way, as usual your media watchdog PEMRA was sleeping when your talk show hosts and others were spewing venom against Hindus on prime time television.
Any comment on this my friend? I think the name of the show is Goodmorning with Farah...???
sher_khan said:
I am sorry. India is not a secular country. Do you want me to prove it? OK.
How many states in India have a ban on cow slaughter and why? I hope you know the answer to that. Except for the two sates of West Bengal and Karela, cow slaughters are legally banned throughout India, because of the religious significance of cows in the Hindu religion.
11. You are right. Cow slaughter is banned all over India after the Supreme Court ruling.
But, import of beef and beef products is allowed.
But this isn't necessarily anti secular. During your Eid, you can either sacrifice a cow, camel or goat. Nowhere does it say that only cow has to be sacrificed.
This is a gray area i guess.
A blanket ban on animal slaughter, that will be anti secular.
sher_khan said:
Also, the deliverance of justice in India is a function of ones religious background. At the start of the court the plaintiffs and defendants have to disclose their religious background. In a lot of instances the courts decisions are different for people of different communities. This s a notion which is extremely anti-secular.
12. Please elaborate further on this point. What is your source? Are you referring to a particular case or cases.
sher_khan said:
Furthermore, the second biggest party of India BJP promotes the motto of Hindutva. This party has been a federal government in past and holds the status of state government in few Indian sates currently. Both the federal government and the state governments have had a precedence of taking anti-muslim stance. Including the massacres of muslims.
13. Do some research. Gujarat state ministers are in prison, several rioters were shot. Many rioters are serving life imprisonment.
sher_khan said:
In your state of Maharashtra, there are militant Hindu organizations like RSS/Shiv Sena. The leaders of these groups (Bal Thackeray) are so influential that they keep on giving threatening statements about other communities . Your countrys people and government are scared to take any action against such organizations. They rather move international events from Maharashtra to other states rather than taking any legal actions against these Hindu militants (IPL 2010 and the 1999s pitch dig up in Bombay).
You are not a secular democracy.
14. People who break law are put in jail and punished. I accept that the law should be changed and more stringent punishments should be meted out to such people.
We are a Secular democracy. Our country doesn't have a religion, people from the minority community can hold the highest offices and they have.
Have you ever read your own constitution? I realize that you are in Canada, but, hey!!! use the internet and read those discriminatory clauses.
Our Constitution has more in common with the constitution of your adopted homeland, Canada. I wonder why you didn't choose to immigrate to a country which was you know...
Islamic
sher_khan said:
Furthermore, to the best of my knowledge there were only 2 murder incidents after a comment was made against the Ahmadis on the TV show. They two appear to be murders of opportunity. That is, there was a dispute going on among the parties of crime prior to the show. The show was subsequently cancelled due to the pressure by the government. The comments by the quest of the show were not directly related to those two incidents and therefore the guest of the show cant be arrested.
15. I cannot believe what I am reading...
Only 2 murder incidents...
Don't you have any shame?
sher_khan said:
When did the Indian government of India arrest the RSS people when the pitch was dug up in 1999 and the RSS/Shiv Sena claimed that they did it? Or who was arrested when the Maharashtras shops were stoned for having their names written in English and Hindi? Oh, I am sorry. I forgot. No one was arrested because your country and it people dont have the guts to arrest the militants.
16. Lies...lies...lies...
people were arrested!!!
sher_khan said:
The anti-caste laws have been there since the 1950s. They have not made an iota of difference in your country. As evident from the low caste people in your country who have no choice but to eat rats and are being killed for wearing shoes in front of higher caste people. Laws and quotas dont bring changes in countries like India. Action does. When was the last time you or your family had a meal with a low caste family on the same table? Have you ever gone out of your way to help a low caste person? BTW werent there riots in your country because of the quota system? Higher caste Hindus were demonstrating against the quota system. The situation will only get worse because of the quota system issue.
Dont you feel embarrassed by using words many instances? The anti-discrimination laws have been there for 60 years in India now. You still cant execute justice in majority of the cases.
17. Man you are hilarious...
I am not a social worker, and i haven't done anything directly for the betterment and upliftment of dalits, yes.
Passing a law and giving quotas do count as actions my friend, also, many more things have been done believe me. Unlike people like you and your country who only do lip service.
Higher caste Hindus were demonstrating against the quota system. The situation will only get worse because of the quota system issue.
18. The demonstrations were not against dalits, but, castes who are well off, but due to their political clout were able to bring quotas for their people.
Quotas for dalits are separate. Read in detail about those demonstrations.
sher_khan said:
So I guess you shouldnt be calling yourself incredible or shining india until few more generations. People eating rats do not really depict any incredibility.
19. These are relative terms, as i wrote earlier. You are entitled to you views.
sher_khan said:
Mayawati is a CM of the Indian state of UP. This state has a population of over 190M. Mayawati belongs to a low caste community and 50% of this state belongs to low castes ( 21% scheduled caste, 1% scheduled tribes, and 28% other backward castes). It is no fluke that a low caste individual received votes from other low caste people who happen to be a majority in the state. The other 50% include Muslims and high caste non-muslims. Her election had nothing to do with secularism it was a function of a caste based politics.
20. Maybe you are not aware of this: those "other backward castes" do discriminate against the dalits. I know this might sound strange, but things are really messed up.
Heard of Mulayam Singh Yadav? He is an OBC (other backward cl...). He was the Chief Minister before Mayawati. Yadav's are a caste. Mayawati didn't of course get vote from them. She got votes from dalits and upper caste people, she fielded upper caste candidates as well.
sher_khan said:
The most interesting aspect of this state was its demographics. Unlike the current UP more than 80% of its people are either Hindu Rajputs or Brahmins. Hence a new state was created to facilitate the high caste hindus. Of course the official reason given to people was that UP is becoming too big.
I recommend you to read the Indian secularism tales to the youngs of your family at night as a fable. Indian secularism has no realistic value. It needs to be treated at its face value. That is, a work of fiction.
21. Mayawati is herself in favour of more states being carved out of UP. The upper castes are in minority in UP. The fight is between Dalits and OBC's. Do some home work little man. You don't know what you are writing.
sher_khan said:
What part of the name Islamic republic of Pakistan do you not understand? Unlike India, Pakistan does not make a false claim of secularism. We are an Islamic country and our laws are based as such. An Islamic country has to have strategic offices held by muslims in order to maintain the Islamic attributes. Non-muslims would not have the Islamic education to make sure that the Islamic values are adhered to.
22. India is not making any false claim. And you have just accepted that Islam discriminates against normal people.
For this to come from an educated person is truly alarming...
sher_khan said:
However, you should give the same advice to 24M NRIs who live abroad because india is unable to provide them with the standard of living they deserve as human beings. Who want to wear their shoes where ever they go without getting killed and dont find rats appetizing. If India is shining and incredible then why are 24M Indians out of the country for employment and choose other countries over india by giving up their Indian citizenship?
23. Unlike you, immigrants from India appreciate the opportunity they have. Neither do they try and sabotage or hurt the country where they have chosen to live.
Also, we don't mix religion with politics. We look to the west and learn and try to learn from their successes and failures.
Indian immigrants don't call for Sharia like law in India while enjoying the fruits of secularism in the west...HYPOCRITE.
sher_khan said:
Hopefully my comments are opening your eyes and your amazement and amusement have converted in to swallowing bitter truths about india. May be you will put an end to your hypocrisy and do something about the low caste people of india. Donate money or time for them. Here is a website that you can go to in order to help the dalits:
24. Well, I am in India and pay my taxes here, and the government spends those on welfare schemes for the upliftment of dalits...get the picture???
sher_khan said:
I know that you have been brainwashed in India about Gandhi. And India is a country where people like to give other people the status of God. To tell you the truth I think that Gandhi in general was a good human being. But like other human beings he also had weaknesses. He also became a victim of the times that he was born in and spent his life. You are referring to my post regarding Gandhi being indifferent towards the caste system. Let me prove it to you. You are a big fan of Mayawati right?
25. The link that you provided, have you read that article?
Do you understand what she is saying?
'It was he (Gandhi) who gave the name Harijan to people from lower castes and weaker sections of society. He divided Indian society into two categories - the weaker sections and upper castes,' the chief minister said.
'It was Ambedkar who tried to unite all sections of society. I don't want to undermine Gandhi's contribution to the freedom struggle but that also led to the division of Indian society,' Mayawati asserted.
For thousands of years these people were being exploited, Gandhi organized them and gave them a voice.
Read that article again. Don't just go by the heading of that report.
