Sharia punishments are the best to deter all sorts of crimes.

[Citizen X]

No it wouldnt. Because your belief is not based on evidence, its based on faith. Unfortunately Faith is not a good reason to believe in something.

No its based on the Quran, not your ever so dear historical records.

 

[Mulhid]

No its based on the Quran, not your ever so dear historical records.

Even the Quran is completed by the Abbasids, then how can we trust Quran if we cannot trust Hadiths written by Abbasids?

Can you reference me a complete copy of Quran before Abbasid period?

 

[Wake up Pak]

So you are a Quranist? How much percentage of Pakistanis do you think are Quranist? You do know that your opinion is in the extreme minority?

Yes I'm a Quranist because God and the Nabi kareem pbuh only approved the Quran rest are all man made stuff.
Its ok if my opinion is the minority for now but the movement has started and with the passage of time it will get stronger.
It might take hundreds of years but the seed has been sown.

 

[Citizen X]

Its not a matter of historical inaccuracies.

Evidence shows that Islam is a creation of Abbasids.

The same Abbasids that lied about hadiths and everything else.

It puts you in a tough position on one hand to believe in the religion they created and reject the other things they said which you dislike.

If you think I am wrong, find me any reference to Islam before 690 and any reference to Muhammad before Abbasid period. Take a few days if you want to and Ill wait for your response.

I couldn't give a shit about the Abbasids, once again you only have your crutches to limp on. And before you ask anything of me, I'm still waiting for your earth shattering explosive evidence.

Yawn!!!

 

[Mulhid]

I couldn't give a shit about the Abbasids

Then why do you believe in the Quran completed by the Abbasids?

 

[Citizen X]

Even the Quran is completed by the Abbasids,

That opinion was given to you by islamphobes and orientalists. You are entitled to it. But don't expect anyone to take it even remotely seriously!

 

[Taalib-e-Haq]

I pity you and all the other intelligent people in the 21st century who are lost in this video game and cannot see the world outside it.

A book that is full of contradictions and says nothing but repeating ancient superstitious myths and scientific mistakes.

Intitutionalizes slavery and subserviance of women

Infinite punishments for finite crimes, every other page threatens of burning with hell fire and other emotional blackmailing

Its an insult to human intelligence to say that this book is written by creator of 200 billion galaxies.

Everyone is lost in selling their own superstitions, Hindus in their bakhti, Muslims in this dirty

Ill leave you with this verse to ponder over where Quran explains how universe was formed:

Quran 11:7
He is the One who created the heavens and the earth in six days, while His throne was on water, so that He might test you as to who among you is better in deed. And if you say, “You shall be raised after death,” the disbelievers will surely say, “This is nothing but sheer magic.”

Where did water come from before universe was formed and what is Allah doing floating on wateR?

Quran 37:6-10
Verily, We have decorated the nearest sky with an adornment, the stars,

and (have made them) a security against every rebellious devil.

They cannot listen to the Upper Realm and are hit from every side

to be driven off, and for them there is a lasting punishment;


This verse is saying shooting stars are missiles that Allah fires at devils. What is this nonsense?


Context from Sahih Muslim:

'Abdullah. Ibn 'Abbas reported: A person from the Ansar who was amongst the Companions of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) reported to me: As we were sitting during the night with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), a meteor shot gave a dazzling light. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: What did you say in the pre-Islamic days when there was such a shot (of meteor)? They said: Allah and His Messenger know best (the actual position), but we, however used to say that that very night a great man had been born and a great man had died, whereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: (These meteors) are shot neither at the death of anyone nor on the birth of anyone. Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, issues Command when He decides to do a thing. Then (the Angels) supporting the Throne sing His glory, then sing the dwellers of heaven who are near to them until this glory of God reaches them who are in the heaven of this world. Then those who are near the supporters of the Throne ask these supporters of the Throne: What your Lord has said? And they accordingly inform them what He says. Then the dwellers of heaven seek information from them until this information reaches the heaven of the world. In this process of transmission (the jinn snatches) what he manages to overhear and he carries it to his friends. And when the Angels see the jinn they attack them with meteors. If they narrate only which they manage to snatch that is correct but they alloy it with lies and make additions to it.
(Muslim, Book 26 : Hadith 5538 )


What is this superstitious nonsense???

I don't pity you man. I have great hope for you. Only an arrogant man is pitiful. But your arguments are frivolous. You are positing a supposition of what you believe about, and of the verses of the Quran, of what you think is superstitious nonsense. So you do have a certain belief about the Quran.

A little while back you said, you don't have beliefs about Islam and Quran.

Pick a side. Either you have beliefs about the Quran and Islam, or you don't.

Mr intellectually dishonest who says its not about what he believes.

We will be in Jannah together. We will have gardens which will span eons in time. We will have all that is promised in the Quran. All you need to do is open your eyes and believe.

He is as much my Rab as much as He is yours. Don't lose hope, even though you've lost your faith. :)

 

[Citizen X]

Then why do you believe in the Quran completed by the Abbasids?

LOL. You have no idea how hard I am trying here to keep a straight face and not let this conversation slide into a barrage sarcastic humour and quips when you say shit like this!

Man I'm sorry to say that statement is so dumb I don't even know how to respond to it, not because I don't have counter arguments but just because it is so dumb! You know when you see something so ridiculous it catches you off guard and you don't know how to react to it for a while!

This is exactly like that! lol

 

[Mulhid]

That opinion was given to you by islamphobes and orientalists. You are entitled to it. But don't expect anyone to take it even remotely seriously!

If I am wrong, reference me a full copy the Quran which as completed before Abbasid period and is the same is todays Quran?

 

[Mulhid]

when you say shit like this!

I mean you can shut me up and and prove me wrong once and for all. Just show me a completed copy of the Quran from before Abbasid period which matches with todays Quran?

I mean whats the problem here... I am not asking for much...

Your entire belief is based on Quran you must have verified these things before right?

 

[Citizen X]

I mean you can shut me and and prove me wrong once and for all. Just show me a completed copy of the Quran from before Abbasid period which matches with todays Quran?

I mean whats the problem here... I am not asking for much...

Your entire belief is based on Quran you must have verified these things before right?

Right after you present your earth shattering explosive evidences!

 

[Mulhid]

Man I'm sorry to say that statement is so dumb I don't even know how to respond to it

You respond to it by providing me evidence to the contrary of what I am saying. Its that simple I dont know why you are sweating lol

 

[Mulhid]

Right after you present your earth shattering explosive evidences!

The Quran was completed by the Abbasids and cannot be relied on. There you go.

 

[Taalib-e-Haq]

Even the Quran is completed by the Abbasids, then how can we trust Quran if we cannot trust Hadiths written by Abbasids?

Can you reference me a complete copy of Quran before Abbasid period?

Amazing banda hai yaar. Kahan se leke ata hai kahanian. Sub kuch apni marzi ka ghara hua, goron ka likha hua. Bohot ziada inferiority complex ka shikar hai.

If today research comes out that says jumping out of windows is healthy, Harris will be the first person to jump out.

Modern science, jo apne pairo pe khari hi nahin hoti. Kal kuch aur tha aaj kuch aur hai aur parson kuch aur. Theory pe zinda hai.

Ek to baat pakki hai 1400 saal se Quran ka matn ek hi hai. Harris bhai jo marzi kahe. Hafiz dunia ka kahin se bhi utha lo, ek hi Quran sunata hai.

 

[Taalib-e-Haq]

The Quran was completed by the Abbasids and cannot be relied on. There you go.

????

 

[Wake up Pak]

First of all Allah has taken this responsibility upon himself that this Quran will be preserved.
Secondly, does it makes any sense that Prophet Muhammad pbuh will depart this world without the compilation of the Quran?
Quran was compiled, completed and taught to sahaba karam during the life time of Prophet Muhammad pbuh.

 

[Mulhid]

Hafiz dunia ka kahin se bhi utha lo, ek hi Quran sunata hai.

Not true. Different parts of the world recite different Quran.

The Quran that we use in Pakistan is called Hafs Quran which was made popular in 1924 by King of Egypt and Cairo University. Before that it was different version. Today there over 32 different printed versions. Hafs and Warsh versions are most popular.

Here are the different versions and where they are used:

Warsh: Algeria, Morocco, parts of Tunisia, West Africa and Sudan
Qalun: Libya, Tunisia and parts of Qatar
al-Duri: Parts of Sudan and West Africa
Hisham: Parts of Yemen
Hafs: Saudi, Pakistan, Turkey and most of Muslim world

Ibn Ayash: Not used anymore
Khalaf: Not used anymore
Khallad: Not used anymore
Abu Al Harid: Not used anymore
Ibn Dhakwan: Not used anymore
al-Suri: Not used anymore
Al Bazzi: Not used anymore
Qunbul: Not used anymore
Ibn Wardan: Not used anymore
Ruways: Not used anymore
Ibn Jamaz: Not used anymore
Rawh: Not used anymore
Ishaq: Not used anymore
Idris Al Haddad: Not used anymore


There was a controvery over this recently when Yasir Qadhi revealed that the traditional narrative that there is only one Quran has holes in it.

 

[Citizen X]

The Quran was completed by the Abbasids and cannot be relied on. There you go.

Okay......... right, sure. You said it and I believed it. Right on bro!

Like I said in one of my earlier posts you lot will keep going around in circles until you hear the answer you want to hear and nothing what anybody else says will make a difference.

I'll depart with a simple remark. You can burn and delete each and every single musaf today but the Quran will not disappear. Because 100s of 1000s if not millions of Muslims have it safe in their heart and millions more have different parts of it safe in their hearts and this is the way it has been since the first day the first Ayah was revealed by Gibreel to Muhammad. These are copies of the Quran you cannot burn or delete.

If you were ever a Muslim before I bet even you still have some part of the Quran memorized.

The problem with you islamophobe and orientalists is you, people have no clue about actual history. Desert Arabian Culture was and to a very large extent even today is a spoken culture, they did not have any books, nor any oh so precious historical records. Literature, poetry, songs, stories and songs were all passed on by word of mouth rather than reading books.

Quran is not only the book of Allah is it pretty much the book the textbook on Arabic language and grammar. How many books in Arabic can you find before the Quran? Yeah exactly.

Thats why you won't find any of your precious historical records, because no one kept them!

Anyways now I really bored. So until you post your now legendary evidences that "everybody has been working on" that will shake the foundations I'm out!

Adios!

 

[Mulhid]

Amazing banda hai yaar. Kahan se leke ata hai kahanian. Sub kuch apni marzi ka ghara hua, goron ka likha hua. Bohot ziada inferiority complex ka shikar hai.

Ill pose the same question to you so you guys can all shut me down once and for all.

Find me a copy of Quran that is atleast 95% complete from before time of Abbasids that we can compare to any modern version of Quran, whether it is Duri, Warsh or Hafs with 99% accuracy with either of those modern versions of Qurans.

So we can be sure that atleast one of the modern versions of Qurans we have today was from before Abbassid times. And it will also prove Islam was not created by Abbassids.

Take a few days to research it if you have to and Ill wait.

 

[Mulhid]

Because 100s of 1000s if not millions of Muslims have it safe in their heart and millions more have different parts of it safe in their hearts and this is the way it has been since the first day the first Ayah was revealed by Gibreel to Muhammad. These are copies of the Quran you cannot burn or delete.

We know that Muslims have it save in their hearts in 21st century. And some probably did in the 9th and 10th century.

But how do you know Quran existed in its complete form before that?

To claim that people memorized the Quran in 7th century you first have to prove that a complete Quran existed in the 7th century and that it hasnt changed since.