Salat in the Quran

[FORCE]

 

[Citizen X]

I really like this guy's style, short and to the point and with reference. Not just making up crap.
Why I reject hadith is also one of my favourite videos of his.

As the saying goes, common sense is not so common after all.

Now see how people will make such a big hue and cry about namaz/salah. But won't take 5 mins to look up the references from the Quran of think about what was said in the clip.

The Quran is complete BUT. Its that but that gets these guys every time.

Also my challenge about salah remains still open.

Find me one person out from the billion plus Muslims who learnt how to perform your 5 times traditional salah just from reading the hadith or if that is too difficult then find me the hadith that has step by step instructions on how to perform the 5 daily prayers.

Pretty simple right>

 

[Wake up Pak]

I'm waiting for atensari and others to comment on it

atensari

 

[Wake up Pak]

I really like this guy's style, short and to the point and with reference. Not just making up crap.
Why I reject hadith is also one of my favourite videos of his.

As the saying goes, common sense is not so common after all.

Now see how people will make such a big hue and cry about namaz/salah. But won't take 5 mins to look up the references from the Quran of think about what was said in the clip.

The Quran is complete BUT. Its that but that gets these guys every time.

Also my challenge about salah remains still open.

Find me one person out from the billion plus Muslims who learnt how to perform your 5 times traditional salah just from reading the hadith or if that is too difficult then find me the hadith that has step by step instructions on how to perform the 5 daily prayers.

Pretty simple right>

I asked Atensari a very simple question the other day, but as usual, he went in circles instead of replying to it with logic.

This was the question:

Aik sadha sa sawal hay, kiya jo mukhtalif ravi ahadith kay zariyay namaz key thori bohat tafseel bata rahay hain kiya woh Muslim thay?
Agar woh Muslim thaay tu namaz bhi parhtay hongay?
Tou aik ravi namaz key sari tafseel aik hadith may kiyon nahi bata sakta?

 

[karachiwala]

why are you here? what is the purpose? it appears you came to the forum just so you can start a fitna and for that you made some posts showing yourselves to be patriotic Pakistanis. Go start your own channel people would like it better if they never heard from you. By the way tell us how you would like to be treated after your death
I clearly see signs of Raaz who had to run from this forum just because of these same antics. same method and same religion.

 

[Citizen X]

I asked Atensari a very simple question

That was your first mistake!

Aik sadha sa sawal hay, kiya jo mukhtalif ravi ahadith kay zariyay namaz key thori bohat tafseel bata rahay hain kiya woh Muslim thay?
Agar woh Muslim thaay tu namaz bhi parhtay hongay?
Tou aik ravi namaz key sari tafseel aik hadith may kiyon nahi bata sakta?

Hadith book are filled with looooong narrations like the one about the Isra Miraj fairy tale goes on forever, how allegedly the Prophet went to different sky levels and talked to different prophets then went to God then came back then went again and came back again then went again then came back again many times, the whole story is in great detail.

A looong drawn out story which goes into great detail about an event that really has no impact even on traditional Islam, it really makes no difference if one knows the story of going to heaven then reducing from 500 to 5 prayers.

But the daily 5 prayers which every traditional Muslim and Mullah with tell you is the KEY to being Muslim something if you don't pray you are out of the fold of Islam, Something SOOOOOOOOO IMPORTANT that allegedly that is the first thing Allah will ask you on the day of judgement.

All sorts of garbage has been narrated But not a SINGLE narrator thought of narrating any hadith about a step by step way to perform this crucial act.

So much for that then eh!

 

[Citizen X]

it appears you came to the forum just so you can start a fitna

Please by all means prove the other party wrong with your logical debate.

Remember bhai how me and you tag teamed against miscreates of the other "cult" with people like haldi ram and all ( lol good old days ) How did we shut them up, with daleel.

Whatever that is being said is wrong bhai saab please counter it with logical arguments.

Don't become a haldi ram type person yourself.

I have too much respect you from our past.

 

[Wake up Pak]

That was your first mistake!


Hadith book are filled with looooong narrations like the one about the Isra Miraj fairy tale goes on forever, how allegedly the Prophet went to different sky levels and talked to different prophets then went to God then came back then went again and came back again then went again then came back again many times, the whole story is in great detail.

A looong drawn out story which goes into great detail about an event that really has no impact even on traditional Islam, it really makes no difference if one knows the story of going to heaven then reducing from 500 to 5 prayers.

But the daily 5 prayers which every traditional Muslim and Mullah with tell you is the KEY to being Muslim something if you don't pray you are out of the fold of Islam, Something SOOOOOOOOO IMPORTANT that allegedly that is the first thing Allah will ask you on the day of judgement.

All sorts of garbage has been narrated But not a SINGLE narrator thought of narrating any hadith about a step by step way to perform this crucial act.

So much for that then eh!

That hadith is full of fairytales and contradictions. You can search the Zoroastrian religion, and they have a similar story of going to the heavens and praying five times a day.

 

[asifukp]

I really like this guy's style, short and to the point and with reference. Not just making up crap.
Why I reject hadith is also one of my favourite videos of his.

As the saying goes, common sense is not so common after all.

Now see how people will make such a big hue and cry about namaz/salah. But won't take 5 mins to look up the references from the Quran of think about what was said in the clip.

The Quran is complete BUT. Its that but that gets these guys every time.

Also my challenge about salah remains still open.

Find me one person out from the billion plus Muslims who learnt how to perform your 5 times traditional salah just from reading the hadith or if that is too difficult then find me the hadith that has step by step instructions on how to perform the 5 daily prayers.

Pretty simple right>

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7241013304020225281

 

[Sohail Shuja]

I'm waiting for atensari and others to comment on it

atensari

The Quran is a book of guidance to bring humanity out of the darkness and into the light.

True

The Quran is complete & detailed; tomorrow you may be asking why it does not include information on every animal on the planet, whether it is Halal or Haram.

Now, should I go with your reason given above or your position right now, which demands that Quran should've had enlisted all the five prayers. If the latter is your position, then why shouldn't Quran also enlist all the things that are Halal/Haram for consumption? Make up your mind first.... how do you want to go about it?

Muslims should take guidance from the Quranic fundamentals, but, they need by-laws within the four walls of these fundamental principles to run the state with the changing times.

Let's just say that the persistence of 5 prayers in each and every sect of Islam, following the Prophet (SAW) is consistent. This cannot be a derivation from Hadith, but Sunnah.

& as per the last sermon of the Prophet (SAW), he left two things amongst us for guidance i.e The Book (Quran) & his Sunnah (Not Hadith).

Now, the basic principle of Salat is set by Quran, its details are found in Sunnah. Also, kindly read the history of Salaat; initially there were only three prayers.

 

[atensari]

قرآن مجید کے الفاظ کو صرف ان کے لغوی ترجمے کے مطابق سمجھنا سو فیصد گمراہی کے سوا کچھ نہیں ہے. مثال کے طور پر سلم، کفر، امن. نفق، جہد، قتل، رب، حسن سے بننے والے الفاظ قرآن میں بکثرت استعمال ہوئے ہیں اور عجمی مسلمانوں کی اکثریت ان کا قرآنی مفہوم جانتی ہے لغوی معنی زیادہ تر لوگ نہیں جانتے. بس اسی لاعلمی کا فائدہ اٹھایا جا رہا ہے

انسانی آواز بتا رہی ہےقرآن مجید میں لفظ صلی یا صلو اتنی مرتبہ آیا ہے اس کا جگہ ایک مطلب کیوں نہیں لیا جاتا ہے. انسانی آواز بتائے قرآن میں جہاں جہاں لفظ رب آیا ہے اس کا ایک مطلب لیا جا سکتا ہے. اللہ نے شہد کی مکھی اور حضرت موسی کی والدہ کو بھی وحی کی کیا دونوں کا مطلب ایک ہے. جو وحی انبیا اور رسل پر کی گئی وہ وحی ان دونوں جیسی ہے یا مختلف

ہر آواز آغاز تمہید یہی باندھتی ہے کے قرآن مجید کو سمجھنے کے لئے آسان بنایا گیا ہے انسانی کتابوں کی کیا ضرورت ہے پھر سمجھانے بھی لگ جاتی ہے. تم قرآن سمجھنے کا معامله سامعین پر کیوں نہیں چھوڑ دیتے

ایک آواز نے دعوی کیا ہے قادیانی مسلمان ہیں. بقیہ آوازیں اس آواز سے اتفاق کرتی ہیں تو ٹھیک ہے ورنہ آوازوں میں دو فرقے ہیں ایک جو از روئے قرآن قادیانیوں کو مسلمان سمجھتی ہے دوسری غیر مسلم​

 

[Citizen X]

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7241013304020225281

What the reference of this hadith? From which hadith collection, what hadith number? Does this hadith also narrates how many rakahs in each of the five prayers i.e 2 in fajar, 4 in dhur etc etc and what all to recite in each position during the prayer?

Because this book is just a collection of hadith by a Shia author taken from many other books and Mirza saab does not reveal all that I have asked if this hadith contains it or not or from which collection is this hadith copied from?

 

[Citizen X]

Now, should I go with your reason given above or your position right now, which demands that Quran should've had enlisted all the five prayers. If the latter is your position, then why shouldn't Quran also enlist all the things that are Halal/Haram for consumption? Make up your mind first.... how do you want to go about it?

The Quran clearly mentions what is haram for consumption rather than mentioning the millions and billions of lifeforms on this planet by name as to what is halal and what is haram and as this would be very impractical, but a page or two could be clearly devoted to what is considered the most import act and form of worship and as mentioned before allegedly if one does not do this he is no longer a Muslim and this is the first thing the Allah will hold a person accountable for on the day of judgement, yet the Quran which says it is a detailed book and contains everything you need to know in it. Yet fails provide details for such an important so called pillar of Islam? This defies every logic.

True


Now, should I go with your reason given above or your position right now, which demands that Quran should've had enlisted all the five prayers. If the latter is your position, then why shouldn't Quran also enlist all the things that are Halal/Haram for consumption? Make up your mind first.... how do you want to go about it?


Let's just say that the persistence of 5 prayers in each and every sect of Islam, following the Prophet (SAW) is consistent. This cannot be a derivation from Hadith, but Sunnah.

& as per the last sermon of the Prophet (SAW), he left two things amongst us for guidance i.e The Book (Quran) & his Sunnah (Not Hadith).

Just man made rhetoric with no base in the Quran and making huge mental leaps to justify the unjustifiable. No where in the Quran is the sunnat ul nabi or sunnat ul rasool even mentioned. But Sunnat ul Alllah is mentioned multiple times in the Quran ( 2:193, 33:62 ) And also the only sunnah Allah instructs us to follow, not the sunnat ul nabi or rasool as perviously mentioned which the Quran is devoid or the sunnat of anyancestors or forefathers. But strictly only the sunnah of Allah. So where did you come with this new sunnah of the prophet from?

And when Allah does say follow the Prophet he means come towards and follow the message that he preaches that has been revealed to him i.e The Quran. It doesn't mean imitate how he supposedly dressed how he looked like what he did so on and so forth.

And on whose authority were they hadith written? Did the prophet sanction these hadith? Did he go over them personally to see there was no mistake made? In fact your own hadith say the exact opposite that the profit forbade writing down of hadith and asked his followers to destroy and instructed them to only take from him the Quran and nothing else.

Now, the basic principle of Salat is set by Quran, its details are found in Sunnah. Also, kindly read the history of Salaat; initially there were only three prayers.

But doesn't you own hadith say that the Prophet was instructed for 50 prayers, but went back and the number was reduced, then went back again it was reduced further and eventually it became 5 and the prophet did not want to go back and reduced the number even more.

So where did these 3 prayers come from? And please don't tell me from the Quran i.e the two "salah" at the two ends of the day and the salah ul wusta i.e middle prayer.

 

[Sohail Shuja]

The Quran clearly mentions what is haram for consumption rather than mentioning the millions and billions of lifeforms on this planet by name as to what is halal and what is haram and as this would be very impractical, but a page or two could be clearly devoted to what is considered the most import act and form of worship and as mentioned before allegedly if one does not do this he is no longer a Muslim and this is the first thing the Allah will hold a person accountable for on the day of judgement, yet the Quran which says it is a detailed book and contains everything you need to know in it. Yet fails provide details for such an important so called pillar of Islam? This defies every logic.

Kindly let me know of any legislation under Islamic laws where they oust someone from Islam for not praying.

Secondly your arguments are way off the mark, without knowing the pretext. Ask you friend first, where I am coming from

Just man made rhetoric with no base in the Quran and making huge mental leaps to justify the unjustifiable. No where in the Quran is the sunnat ul nabi or sunnat ul rasool even mentioned. But Sunnat ul Alllah is mentioned multiple times in the Quran ( 2:193, 33:62 ) And also the only sunnah Allah instructs us to follow, not the sunnat ul nabi or rasool as perviously mentioned which the Quran is devoid or the sunnat of anyancestors or forefathers. But strictly only the sunnah of Allah. So where did you come with this new sunnah of the prophet from?

And when Allah does say follow the Prophet he means come towards and follow the message that he preaches that has been revealed to him i.e The Quran. It doesn't mean imitate how he supposedly dressed how he looked like what he did so on and so forth.

And on whose authority were they hadith written? Did the prophet sanction these hadith? Did he go over them personally to see there was no mistake made? In fact your own hadith say the exact opposite that the profit forbade writing down of hadith and asked his followers to destroy and instructed them to only take from him the Quran and nothing else.


But doesn't you own hadith say that the Prophet was instructed for 50 prayers, but went back and the number was reduced, then went back again it was reduced further and eventually it became 5 and the prophet did not want to go back and reduced the number even more.

Said too much but meant really nothing.

So where did these 3 prayers come from? And please don't tell me from the Quran i.e the two "salah" at the two ends of the day and the salah ul wusta i.e middle prayer.

But you only call for reference of Quran & now you are telling me not to refer to the Quran?

What is that? Muzzy logic -- you new invention after the Fuzzy logic?

 

[asifukp]

What the reference of this hadith? From which hadith collection, what hadith number? Does this hadith also narrates how many rakahs in each of the five prayers i.e 2 in fajar, 4 in dhur etc etc and what all to recite in each position during the prayer?

Because this book is just a collection of hadith by a Shia author taken from many other books and Mirza saab does not reveal all that I have asked if this hadith contains it or not or from which collection is this hadith copied from?

it looks like you don't even believe Quran, as if some one asked where did you get it form? how is it revealed? have you seen it in CCTV while it was written?

long story short if you don't want to perform it the way it is performed in the whole world then find your own way with proof that satisfy you, no one has the right to force you to believe/perform it the way they claim it is. if you are a believer then you have to justify it in front of Allah(swt) so make sure you have done all the research and if you don't think that you have to face Allah(swt) then enjoy your life as atheist.

 

[Wake up Pak]

Now, should I go with your reason given above or your position right now, which demands that Quran should've had enlisted all the five prayers. If the latter is your position, then why shouldn't Quran also enlist all the things that are Halal/Haram for consumption? Make up your mind first.... how do you want to go about it?

What's the problem here? You're saying the Quran isn't complete?
Is Allah short of words?
18:109 Say, 'If the ocean were ink for the words of my Lord, the ocean would run out, before the words of my Lord run out,' even if We were to bring the like of it in addition to it
Here are a few Quranic verses for your consideration.

2:170 And when it is said to them, 'Follow what God has revealed,' they say, 'We will follow what we found our ancestors following.' Even if their ancestors understood nothing, and were not guided
[Quran 6:38] We did not leave anything out of this book.

[Quran 7:52] We have given them a scripture that is fully detailed, with knowledge, guidance, and mercy for the people who believe.

[Quran 10:37] This Quran could not possibly be authored by other than God. It confirms all previous messages and provides a fully detailed scripture. It is infallible, for it comes from the Lord of the universe.

[Quran 12:111] In their history, there is a lesson for those who possess intelligence. This is not fabricated Hadith; this (Quran) confirms all previous scriptures, provides the details of everything, and is a beacon and mercy for those who believe.

Let me ask you a simple question, the word Zakat is usually attached to Salat, how come we do not pay the so-called 2.5% Zakat five times a day?
Did Allah even forget the simple "2.5%" Zakat?
Read the inheritance verses where Allah has given the details down to fractions.

& as per the last sermon of the Prophet (SAW), he left two things amongst us for guidance i.e The Book (Quran) & his Sunnah (Not Hadith).

Now you tell me which version you want to accept.

1- First version, ” I left for you what if you hold up to, you will never be misguided, the book of God and my Family. Muslim 44/4, Nu2408; Ibn Hanbal 4/366; darimi 23/1, nu 3319. This is the version made up by the Shiite Muslims.

2-Second version, “I left for you what if you hold up to, you will never be misguided, the book of God and my Sunnah” . Muwatta, 46/3 This is the version made up by the Sunni Muslims.

3- Third version, “I left for you what if you hold up to, you will never be misguided, the BOOK OF GOD.” Muslim 15/19, nu 1218; Ibn Majah 25/84, Abu dawud 11/56.

69:44-48 “And if the messenger were to invent any sayings in Our name, We should certainly seize him by his right hand, And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart: Nor could any of you withhold him (from Our wrath). But verily this is a Message for the God-fearing”

(7:203) [O Prophet!] When you do not produce before them any miracle, they say: 'Why do you not choose for yourself a miracle? ' Say to them: I follow only what is revealed to me by my Lord. This is nothing but a means of insight into the truth, and guidance and mercy from your Lord to the people who believe.

[Quran 12:111] In their history, there is a lesson for those who possess intelligence. This is not fabricated Hadith; this (Quran) confirms all previous scriptures, provides the details of everything, and is a beacon and mercy for those who believe.

Now, the basic principle of Salat is set by Quran, its details are found in Sunnah. Also, kindly read the history of Salaat; initially there were only three prayers.

This is yet another approach to divert the attention of a regular Muslim by mentioning the Quran and Sunnah or the Quran and Hadith.
The word Sunnah is not found in the Quran, nor is the word Hadith.
I asked every mullah I could find, but no one could tell me the details of the so-called Namaz from their man-made literature until now.

 

[Wake up Pak]

قرآن مجید کے الفاظ کو صرف ان کے لغوی ترجمے کے مطابق سمجھنا سو فیصد گمراہی کے سوا کچھ نہیں ہے. مثال کے طور پر سلم، کفر، امن. نفق، جہد، قتل، رب، حسن سے بننے والے الفاظ قرآن میں بکثرت استعمال ہوئے ہیں اور عجمی مسلمانوں کی اکثریت ان کا قرآنی مفہوم جانتی ہے لغوی معنی زیادہ تر لوگ نہیں جانتے. بس اسی لاعلمی کا فائدہ اٹھایا جا رہا ہے

انسانی آواز بتا رہی ہےقرآن مجید میں لفظ صلی یا صلو اتنی مرتبہ آیا ہے اس کا جگہ ایک مطلب کیوں نہیں لیا جاتا ہے. انسانی آواز بتائے قرآن میں جہاں جہاں لفظ رب آیا ہے اس کا ایک مطلب لیا جا سکتا ہے. اللہ نے شہد کی مکھی اور حضرت موسی کی والدہ کو بھی وحی کی کیا دونوں کا مطلب ایک ہے. جو وحی انبیا اور رسل پر کی گئی وہ وحی ان دونوں جیسی ہے یا مختلف

ہر آواز آغاز تمہید یہی باندھتی ہے کے قرآن مجید کو سمجھنے کے لئے آسان بنایا گیا ہے انسانی کتابوں کی کیا ضرورت ہے پھر سمجھانے بھی لگ جاتی ہے. تم قرآن سمجھنے کا معامله سامعین پر کیوں نہیں چھوڑ دیتے

ایک آواز نے دعوی کیا ہے قادیانی مسلمان ہیں. بقیہ آوازیں اس آواز سے اتفاق کرتی ہیں تو ٹھیک ہے ورنہ آوازوں میں دو فرقے ہیں ایک جو از روئے قرآن قادیانیوں کو مسلمان سمجھتی ہے دوسری غیر مسلم​

أَوَ لَمۡ یَنظُرُوا۟ فِی مَلَكُوتِ ٱلسَّمَـٰوَ ٰتِ وَٱلۡأَرۡضِ وَمَا خَلَقَ ٱللَّهُ مِن شَیۡءࣲ وَأَنۡ عَسَىٰۤ أَن یَكُونَ قَدِ ٱقۡتَرَبَ أَجَلُهُمۡۖ فَبِأَیِّ حَدِیثِۭ بَعۡدَهُۥ یُؤۡمِنُونَ ۝١

Can they not see the Dominion of the heavens and the earth and what Allah has created? Does it ever occur to them that the end of their own life may be near, What HADITH besides the Qur'an, are they going to believe after him?

 

[Wake up Pak]

(46:9) Tell them: “I am not the first of the Messengers, and I do not know what shall be done with me or with you. I follow only what is revealed to me, and I am nothing but a plain warner.”

 

[Sohail Shuja]

What's the problem here? You're saying the Quran isn't complete?
Is Allah short of words?

Make up your mind.... when I ask you the same question about Opium, you say something else (as cited above), now your stance is completely against yourself

Stick to one position. If Allah (SWT) is not short of words, then Opium is Halal, because it is not mentioned as such in Quran.

18:109 Say, 'If the ocean were ink for the words of my Lord, the ocean would run out, before the words of my Lord run out,' even if We were to bring the like of it in addition to it
Here are a few Quranic verses for your consideration.

2:170 And when it is said to them, 'Follow what God has revealed,' they say, 'We will follow what we found our ancestors following.' Even if their ancestors understood nothing, and were not guided
[Quran 6:38] We did not leave anything out of this book.

[Quran 7:52] We have given them a scripture that is fully detailed, with knowledge, guidance, and mercy for the people who believe.

[Quran 10:37] This Quran could not possibly be authored by other than God. It confirms all previous messages and provides a fully detailed scripture. It is infallible, for it comes from the Lord of the universe.

[Quran 12:111] In their history, there is a lesson for those who possess intelligence. This is not fabricated Hadith; this (Quran) confirms all previous scriptures, provides the details of everything, and is a beacon and mercy for those who believe.

Let me ask you a simple question, the word Zakat is usually attached to Salat, how come we do not pay the so-called 2.5% Zakat five times a day?
Did Allah even forget the simple "2.5%" Zakat?
Read the inheritance verses where Allah has given the details down to fractions.

Now you tell me which version you want to accept.

1- First version, ” I left for you what if you hold up to, you will never be misguided, the book of God and my Family. Muslim 44/4, Nu2408; Ibn Hanbal 4/366; darimi 23/1, nu 3319. This is the version made up by the Shiite Muslims.

2-Second version, “I left for you what if you hold up to, you will never be misguided, the book of God and my Sunnah” . Muwatta, 46/3 This is the version made up by the Sunni Muslims.

3- Third version, “I left for you what if you hold up to, you will never be misguided, the BOOK OF GOD.” Muslim 15/19, nu 1218; Ibn Majah 25/84, Abu dawud 11/56.

69:44-48 “And if the messenger were to invent any sayings in Our name, We should certainly seize him by his right hand, And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart: Nor could any of you withhold him (from Our wrath). But verily this is a Message for the God-fearing”

(7:203) [O Prophet!] When you do not produce before them any miracle, they say: 'Why do you not choose for yourself a miracle? ' Say to them: I follow only what is revealed to me by my Lord. This is nothing but a means of insight into the truth, and guidance and mercy from your Lord to the people who believe.

[Quran 12:111] In their history, there is a lesson for those who possess intelligence. This is not fabricated Hadith; this (Quran) confirms all previous scriptures, provides the details of everything, and is a beacon and mercy for those who believe.

This is yet another approach to divert the attention of a regular Muslim by mentioning the Quran and Sunnah or the Quran and Hadith.
The word Sunnah is not found in the Quran, nor is the word Hadith.
I asked every mullah I could find, but no one could tell me the details of the so-called Namaz from their man-made literature until now.

Whoa ..... if you cannot convince them, then confuse them.

Since you started on the wrong footing, hence it renders the superstructure of your argument also as null and void.

 

[Wake up Pak]

Make up your mind.... when I ask you the same question about Opium, you say something else (as cited above), now your stance is completely against yourself

Stick to one position. If Allah (SWT) is not short of words, then Opium is Halal, because it is not mentioned as such in Quran.




Whoa ..... if you cannot convince them, then confuse them.

Since you started on the wrong footing, hence it renders the superstructure of your argument also as null and void.

You're either naive or pretend to be. Everything is crystal clear, but I know you won't get to the point of the discussion because your ridiculous arguments have no legs.
Instead of going around in circles, give the specifics of your Namaz.