A.Chaudhry
Banned
Sorry to say but I think you have little short knowledge about the case. Let the experts do their job.
Rimsha Masih & Misuse of the Blasphemy Law in Pakistan
- Thread starter Serving Islam
- Start date
Sorry to say but I think you have little short knowledge about the case. Let the experts do their job.
evanescence
MPA (400+ posts)
I am not sure about this news that fire fighters being stopped by preventing those burning Christians' homes. But if it is ..... where are our social values and where our society is heading, atleast they are human beings. How are we posing ourselves in the world? I cant imagine that.
evanescence
MPA (400+ posts)
Thanks for sharing this.
iceburg
Banned
Jitna marzi barra expert le aao and just show me from Quran, a clear provision (Nas-e-Sareeh) about death penalty of such a crime as Asia Masih or Rimsha Masih allegedly committed.
Tumhare little vast knowledge main ye baat bhi shamil honi zaroori hai k Quranic Principle k mutabiq insaan k hath main logon ko physical punishment dene ka ikhtiyar siraf Haqooq-al-Ibaad main he diya gaya hai. Haqooq Allah matters main punishment dene ka ikhtiyar insaan ko diya he nahi gaya. So you cannot find in Quran physical wordly punishment for such crimes as leaving namaz, not keeping beard, not wearing oonchi shalwar etc. Not fasting etc. even.
These are Haqooq Allah matters and only God will give punishment ... may be in this world or may be in afterlife are both. It is all upto His sole discretion.
Mild type of Tauheen-e-Rasalat (for example Aasia Masih case) is not any Haqooq-al-Ibaad matter. So no human is authorized to announce punishment.
But continuous and persistent Tauheen-e-Rasallat is Haqooq-al-Ibaad matter because it is like fassad and fitna.
Qaanoon-e-Tauheen Rassallat is justified only for such cases jahan mujram muafi mangne pe raazi na ho. Dhattayi ka muzahira kare. Apni bud-zubani main aage barhta jaye. Samjhane se mana na ho..
Extreme punishment is justified only in such matters.
Agar siraf Haqooq Allah ka matter hai ... aur insaan ko punishment announce karne ka ikhtiyar de diya jaye ... then it is interference in the authority and domain of God.
Jo log punishments lagane main insaan ko diye gaye ikhtiyar se tajawaz karte hain ... aur authority of God ko apne hath main lete hain ........ technically these are extremists.
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tariisb
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
کرپٹ سیاسی اشرافیہ ، بیمارعوامی شعور
پھر اسی ، سے ، کرپشن ، غربت ، طبقاتی نظام تعلیم ، عدم قانون ، اور بہت سے مسائل جنم لیتے ہیں ،
A.Chaudhry
Banned
So, what allows these corrupt politicians to come in front and rule?
A.Chaudhry
Banned
Seems you misunderstood my point of view. This is very sensitive matter and I don't feel like starting a debate. I would like to request to spare some time and do watch the following video.
[h=1]who is Blasphemous (Gustakh e Rasool Kon?) by Dr Muhammad Tahir ul Qadri - Part-1[/h]
UmarFarooq
Voter (50+ posts)
I have many reservations on Blasphemy Law: Tahir-ul-Qadri : News Pakistan
Tahir-ul-Qadri, the renowned Islamic scholar, has said that he had many reservations on all administrative and procedural points of blasphemy law, adding that it needs a lot of reforms and amendments. During an interview with a Danish TV channel, Tahir-ul-Qadri said that he had difference of opinion with the blasphemy law in its existing forms.
He said, “I have many reservations. I have difference of opinion and this law needs lot of reforms and changes. I do not support this law as it is being practiced in Pakistan”.
He announced that he would be the first person to fight for her right and save her life if any injustice was done to Rimsha Masih, the Christian girl accused of blasphemy charges.
The religious scholar said that the girl, according to the reports, is a minor and suffering from Down’s Syndrome.
He hoped that the court while considering the ground situation wouldn’t go for punishment against the minor.
Commenting about capital punishment in the blasphemy law, he said it is not only for the Prophet (PBUH) but all other prophets including Jesus Christ, Moses and same is for Bible, Torah and Quran.
Up till now, there was not a single person including Muslims and Non-Muslims who was charged and sentenced to capital punishment in the last 27 years. Although cases have been registered, the courts and judges are quite sensible.
Replying to a query Qadri said, the government sometimes take such people into protective custody in order to save them from extremist, terrorist and radical attacks.
Criticizing the legal system of the country, he said that judicial procedures, particularly civil laws, take sometimes 25 years. He said that there is delayed justice not only in blasphemy cases but also in murders and other cases.
In replying to a query he said neither he was consultant to General Ziaul Haq nor he was part of his cabinet. He rejected the impression categorically he was taken on board before passage of blasphemy law in the past.
Stressing the need of issuing ordain (fatwa) against terrorists in the name of religion, he said that they are militants who are continuously exploiting and radicalizing the Muslim youth.
While hijacking the term of jihad, such people brainwash youngsters and they prepared them to commit suicidal attacks.
Tahir-ul-Qadri stated, “Killing a single person, even he is Muslim or non-Muslim, who is non-combatant, is equal killing the whole mankind”.
He said he wanted to save the Muslim youngsters and wanted to create a tolerant society in the country.
http://www.newspakistan.pk/2012/09/07/reservations-blasphemy-law-tahir-ul-qadri/
Tahir-ul-Qadri, the renowned Islamic scholar, has said that he had many reservations on all administrative and procedural points of blasphemy law, adding that it needs a lot of reforms and amendments. During an interview with a Danish TV channel, Tahir-ul-Qadri said that he had difference of opinion with the blasphemy law in its existing forms.
He said, “I have many reservations. I have difference of opinion and this law needs lot of reforms and changes. I do not support this law as it is being practiced in Pakistan”.
He announced that he would be the first person to fight for her right and save her life if any injustice was done to Rimsha Masih, the Christian girl accused of blasphemy charges.
The religious scholar said that the girl, according to the reports, is a minor and suffering from Down’s Syndrome.
He hoped that the court while considering the ground situation wouldn’t go for punishment against the minor.
Commenting about capital punishment in the blasphemy law, he said it is not only for the Prophet (PBUH) but all other prophets including Jesus Christ, Moses and same is for Bible, Torah and Quran.
Up till now, there was not a single person including Muslims and Non-Muslims who was charged and sentenced to capital punishment in the last 27 years. Although cases have been registered, the courts and judges are quite sensible.
Replying to a query Qadri said, the government sometimes take such people into protective custody in order to save them from extremist, terrorist and radical attacks.
Criticizing the legal system of the country, he said that judicial procedures, particularly civil laws, take sometimes 25 years. He said that there is delayed justice not only in blasphemy cases but also in murders and other cases.
In replying to a query he said neither he was consultant to General Ziaul Haq nor he was part of his cabinet. He rejected the impression categorically he was taken on board before passage of blasphemy law in the past.
Stressing the need of issuing ordain (fatwa) against terrorists in the name of religion, he said that they are militants who are continuously exploiting and radicalizing the Muslim youth.
While hijacking the term of jihad, such people brainwash youngsters and they prepared them to commit suicidal attacks.
Tahir-ul-Qadri stated, “Killing a single person, even he is Muslim or non-Muslim, who is non-combatant, is equal killing the whole mankind”.
He said he wanted to save the Muslim youngsters and wanted to create a tolerant society in the country.
http://www.newspakistan.pk/2012/09/07/reservations-blasphemy-law-tahir-ul-qadri/
iceburg
Banned
Not relevant reply. This is sensitive issue. Ye keh k baat khatam. Fact is that Tahir-ul-Qadri sahib also cannot show any nas-e-sareeh as I pointed out in previous post.
A.Chaudhry
Banned
Your post shows that you did not watched the video, never mind. And the laws are not made the way you think.
mfurqanyousaf1
Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
KIA RIMSHA waqie gustkh hai ya oar koi mamla hai ye vedio dakhe
iceburg
Banned
Just show me a reference of nas-e-sareeh on this issue and no video. Watch video yourself and if any reference is given then please mention. Or accept that there is in fact no nas-e-sareeh in Quran.
And ... you are right. Laws are not made as per Quran. Never will they be made because prevailing laws are so great curse on country.
Pakistan Islam is not the ideology of Quran. Pakistani Islam only means dominant view points among mullah circles. Those dominant view points may or may not be according to teachings of Quran. That's why Quran is irrelevant thing in Pakistan.
A.Chaudhry
Banned
As I already mentioned in one of my previous posts that this is a sensitive issue and not interested to argue or debate but it seems that you want to bring something out of it. Once again I will say that the laws are not made the way you think, you want to bring every thing out of the text of Quran, right then prove where does Quran says that eating dog is haram.
iceburg
Banned
By arguing like eating dog haram not mentioned in Quran ... you have indirectly accepted that Death Penalty of Tauheen Rasallat is not mentioned in Quran.
Get some courage to directly (i.e. not just indirectly) accept this fact also.
And there is no death penalty law in country for eating dogs. So that is no anyone's issue of concern. You ppl insist on death penalty for blasphemy. So just be more accurate and open by stating that yes there is no express and clear provision of death penalty for blasphemy in Quran but still we do insist on a blasphemy law of death penalty.
So please say it. Issue will resolve being not islamic but just the case of might is right. If you not going to say it ... then show clear provision or leave your stance. Otherwise it will only be a case of hypocicy.
sameerking
Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
listen to mohatram molana Dr ,tahir-ul-qadri vary carefully from 11:36 and you will decides what he was saying .......http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JWSjEOGCr6c....IMRAN
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pak_moderator
MPA (400+ posts)
teri aqal per matam hi kia ja sakta hai
A.Chaudhry
Banned
[h=1]The Sharia professor: Death penalty for blasphemy is also in the Bible[/h]On Tuesday Tahir-ul-Qadri will be speaking to an antiradicalization conference in Copenhagen. But he is already in Denmark, and told yesterday about his views on blasphemy.
Fundamentalism: If you reject a ban on blasphemy, then you are in conflict with both the Bible as the Quran, says controversial professor.
[h=3]By MadsBondeBroberg[/h]On Thursday morning the Pakistani professor Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri and his associates were at Hotel Mariott at Copenhagen harbor.
The approximately 150 participants clap insistently, when the charismatic professor emphasizes a point, for example, that Islam supports democracy and equality, or that none of the 35 verses about Jihad in the Qur'an can be interpreted as an encouragement for terrorism.
And when he is done launching his famous fatwa against suicide terrorism, they flock to greet him.
Some other places, he is less popular. In particular, his participation in an anti-radicalization conference on 11th September is met with criticism.
[h=2]Past causes disorder[/h]It's his past that causes disorder. For Tahir-ul-Qadri is the founder of the Islamic Minhaj-ul-Quran movement and criticized for his role in the islamization of Pakistan in the 1980`s under General Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq's leadership.
According to Minhaj-ul-Quran`s official website the professor was at that time a legal advisor in Islamic law for the Supreme Court and the Federal Sharia Court of Pakistan, as he at times between 1983 and 1987 was special advisor in >>Islamic curriculum<< for the Ministry of Education.
[h=2]Historical decisions[/h]The professor is called Shaykh-ul-Islam by his followers and you can read on the website that the Federal Sharia Court and Court of Appeal of Sharia law in the 1980s took a number of >>historical decisions<<, and that it happened "as a result of Shaykh-ul-Islam's legal arguments".
The description is repeated word for word in several of the support groups in the movement. However, with a significant addition in the group Islamic Revival:
"In another case, the blasphemy law ... implemented for the first time in the history of Pakistan after Shaykh-ul-Islam presented his arguments to the court over a period of three days", it states.
Back at the Hotel Mariott, the presentation has ended, and there are questions from the audience. JyllandsPosten asks the professor to explain his views on Pakistan's harsh blasphemy law.
[h=2]Hard to explain standpoint[/h]However, it is not that simple, says Tahir-ul-Qadri:
"I have given my full view of blasphemy, and it can be found on YouTube. 14 hours of lectures."
He believes, however, that the current rules are administrated incorrectly and need reforms so that they are not misused for example against minorities and other defenseless people, such as the 11-year-old girl with Down syndrome, who is currently facing the death penalty for tearing pages out of the Quran:
"If she is convicted - and it is an unjust conviction - then I will go and fight for her rightsand be her lawyer," promises professor.
He also points out that he only advised General Zia-ul-Haq's government in one case. It was the introduction of a law on blood money, where the professor – according to himself – gave some eight hours “arguments in favor of gender equality" and thus the draft law was amended, so a discount of 50% for female victims disappeared.
A reporter from Politiken is next and asks Professor Tahir-ul-Qadri to tell what the punishment for blasphemy in his opinion should be.
The professor brings forth a sheet of A4 paper and begins to mention verses from the Bible, which he interprets as the death penalty for blasphemy.
"The original blasphemy law was revealed to Moses in the Old Testament," says Tahir-ul-Qadri, adding that it continued with Jesus in the New Testament, where Matthew in chapter 12, verses 31-32 writes that "whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this world or the next."
[h=2]Follows the Bible and the Quran[/h]This was only continued when the Prophet Muhammad came six centuries later, says the professor, who cannot bring himself to go against blasphemy ban:
"I would then be speaking directly against the text in the Holy Quran, likewise I would then be speaking directly against the text in the New Testament, the Gospels, Jesus Christ, and directly against the text in the Bible, the Old Testament and the text of Moses. I do not want to be in confrontation with the holy Moses, the holy Jesus Christ or the Holy Prophet Muhammad."
Professor:
[h=2]Tahir-ul-Qadri[/h]Dr. Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri (61) is known for his fatwa against terrorism.
Founder of Minhaj-ul-Quran movement, which previously has aroused debate in Denmark.
Advised in the 1980s Pakistani courts of Sharia law and advised at least once the government.
[h=2]Ministerdiscarded for meeting[/h]New Danish Youth Council does not follow Karen Haekkerup ultimatum.
[h=2]MadsBondeBroberg[/h]Yesterday, the Minister for Integration Karen Haekkerup (S) gave an ultimatum to New Danish Youth Council.
The Council had both invited her and the controversial Professor Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri to an antiradicalization conference on 11th of September.
"If he participates, I'll have to say no", she said.
But the council, which is partially supported by lottery funds, upheld the professor's participation, and therefore the minister will not be coming:
"It is unfortunate that Social- and Integration Minister Karen Haekkerup will still not participate. Social and Integration Ministry has been informed throughout the process - also regarding the program and speakers", says the council in a written statement.
The Council should have chosen Haekkerup, says Liberal party`s integration-spokesperson IngerStjberg.
"It is very unfortunate that they let him speak," says Stjberg, but doubts Haekkerup's explanation that she did not know the list of speakers:
"Either the minister is not speaking the truth; or they don`t know what, they are doing in the ministry. Of course she should know, who she is going to share the platform with”, says Stjberg, who was minister for 2.5 years until the election.
"I have never participated in any conference where I did not know who the other participants were," says the spokeswoman from the Liberal Party, who will now ask the Minister some questions about the process.
[h=2]Put them on ice[/h]The Danish People's Party spokesman Martin Henriksen, will ask questions.
"We need an explanation as to whom the Council works with and what it`s position towards the extreme Islam is. And until the report is complete, we will put the Council on ice", he says.
PET-chief JakobScharf maintains its participation in the conference, and so does the Integration-Mayor of Copenhagen, Anna MeeAllerslev (R).
She strongly discourages blasphemy rules in Pakistan, but would rather express opposition against them, than stay away:
"Dialogue and bridge building is the way forward. Otherwise we risk pushing our young Muslim citizens into the arms of those who we want to work against", she says.
Fundamentalism: If you reject a ban on blasphemy, then you are in conflict with both the Bible as the Quran, says controversial professor.
[h=3]By MadsBondeBroberg[/h]On Thursday morning the Pakistani professor Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri and his associates were at Hotel Mariott at Copenhagen harbor.
The approximately 150 participants clap insistently, when the charismatic professor emphasizes a point, for example, that Islam supports democracy and equality, or that none of the 35 verses about Jihad in the Qur'an can be interpreted as an encouragement for terrorism.
And when he is done launching his famous fatwa against suicide terrorism, they flock to greet him.
Some other places, he is less popular. In particular, his participation in an anti-radicalization conference on 11th September is met with criticism.
[h=2]Past causes disorder[/h]It's his past that causes disorder. For Tahir-ul-Qadri is the founder of the Islamic Minhaj-ul-Quran movement and criticized for his role in the islamization of Pakistan in the 1980`s under General Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq's leadership.
According to Minhaj-ul-Quran`s official website the professor was at that time a legal advisor in Islamic law for the Supreme Court and the Federal Sharia Court of Pakistan, as he at times between 1983 and 1987 was special advisor in >>Islamic curriculum<< for the Ministry of Education.
[h=2]Historical decisions[/h]The professor is called Shaykh-ul-Islam by his followers and you can read on the website that the Federal Sharia Court and Court of Appeal of Sharia law in the 1980s took a number of >>historical decisions<<, and that it happened "as a result of Shaykh-ul-Islam's legal arguments".
The description is repeated word for word in several of the support groups in the movement. However, with a significant addition in the group Islamic Revival:
"In another case, the blasphemy law ... implemented for the first time in the history of Pakistan after Shaykh-ul-Islam presented his arguments to the court over a period of three days", it states.
Back at the Hotel Mariott, the presentation has ended, and there are questions from the audience. JyllandsPosten asks the professor to explain his views on Pakistan's harsh blasphemy law.
[h=2]Hard to explain standpoint[/h]However, it is not that simple, says Tahir-ul-Qadri:
"I have given my full view of blasphemy, and it can be found on YouTube. 14 hours of lectures."
He believes, however, that the current rules are administrated incorrectly and need reforms so that they are not misused for example against minorities and other defenseless people, such as the 11-year-old girl with Down syndrome, who is currently facing the death penalty for tearing pages out of the Quran:
"If she is convicted - and it is an unjust conviction - then I will go and fight for her rightsand be her lawyer," promises professor.
He also points out that he only advised General Zia-ul-Haq's government in one case. It was the introduction of a law on blood money, where the professor – according to himself – gave some eight hours “arguments in favor of gender equality" and thus the draft law was amended, so a discount of 50% for female victims disappeared.
A reporter from Politiken is next and asks Professor Tahir-ul-Qadri to tell what the punishment for blasphemy in his opinion should be.
The professor brings forth a sheet of A4 paper and begins to mention verses from the Bible, which he interprets as the death penalty for blasphemy.
"The original blasphemy law was revealed to Moses in the Old Testament," says Tahir-ul-Qadri, adding that it continued with Jesus in the New Testament, where Matthew in chapter 12, verses 31-32 writes that "whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this world or the next."
[h=2]Follows the Bible and the Quran[/h]This was only continued when the Prophet Muhammad came six centuries later, says the professor, who cannot bring himself to go against blasphemy ban:
"I would then be speaking directly against the text in the Holy Quran, likewise I would then be speaking directly against the text in the New Testament, the Gospels, Jesus Christ, and directly against the text in the Bible, the Old Testament and the text of Moses. I do not want to be in confrontation with the holy Moses, the holy Jesus Christ or the Holy Prophet Muhammad."
Professor:
[h=2]Tahir-ul-Qadri[/h]Dr. Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri (61) is known for his fatwa against terrorism.
Founder of Minhaj-ul-Quran movement, which previously has aroused debate in Denmark.
Advised in the 1980s Pakistani courts of Sharia law and advised at least once the government.
[h=2]Ministerdiscarded for meeting[/h]New Danish Youth Council does not follow Karen Haekkerup ultimatum.
[h=2]MadsBondeBroberg[/h]Yesterday, the Minister for Integration Karen Haekkerup (S) gave an ultimatum to New Danish Youth Council.
The Council had both invited her and the controversial Professor Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri to an antiradicalization conference on 11th of September.
"If he participates, I'll have to say no", she said.
But the council, which is partially supported by lottery funds, upheld the professor's participation, and therefore the minister will not be coming:
"It is unfortunate that Social- and Integration Minister Karen Haekkerup will still not participate. Social and Integration Ministry has been informed throughout the process - also regarding the program and speakers", says the council in a written statement.
The Council should have chosen Haekkerup, says Liberal party`s integration-spokesperson IngerStjberg.
"It is very unfortunate that they let him speak," says Stjberg, but doubts Haekkerup's explanation that she did not know the list of speakers:
"Either the minister is not speaking the truth; or they don`t know what, they are doing in the ministry. Of course she should know, who she is going to share the platform with”, says Stjberg, who was minister for 2.5 years until the election.
"I have never participated in any conference where I did not know who the other participants were," says the spokeswoman from the Liberal Party, who will now ask the Minister some questions about the process.
[h=2]Put them on ice[/h]The Danish People's Party spokesman Martin Henriksen, will ask questions.
"We need an explanation as to whom the Council works with and what it`s position towards the extreme Islam is. And until the report is complete, we will put the Council on ice", he says.
PET-chief JakobScharf maintains its participation in the conference, and so does the Integration-Mayor of Copenhagen, Anna MeeAllerslev (R).
She strongly discourages blasphemy rules in Pakistan, but would rather express opposition against them, than stay away:
"Dialogue and bridge building is the way forward. Otherwise we risk pushing our young Muslim citizens into the arms of those who we want to work against", she says.
iceburg
Banned
So follow Bible then. Because there is no clear provision (Nas-e-Sareeh) of death penalty in Quran ... of Blasphemy.
tariisb
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
