hi there.dear admin can you stop these post about dr.israr and zakir nayek.why they are blaming them.they are great scholars if they want to post these type of things, i got lots of stuff to shut their mouth,how their beloved tahir ul qadri making fun of islam.
request to admin
- Thread starter A-Haseeb
- Start date
Knowledge Seeker
Senator (1k+ posts)
Please stop all those post which are based on creating fitna about any specific group or personalty.
That is what I was suggesting my brothers to not post materials against any respected Personality of Islam and I have been showing concern since long time but the fact is that many people have been enjoying the Propaganda against Sheikh Tahir UL Qadri from long time and now that they are experiencing reaction, They want to Stop it. Anyway, It is better to warn all members who are creating this fuss on this Forum about their irresponsible posts.
That is what I was suggesting my brothers to not post materials against any respected Personality of Islam and I have been showing concern since long time but the fact is that many people have been enjoying the Propaganda against Sheikh Tahir UL Qadri from long time and now that they are experiencing reaction, They want to Stop it. Anyway, It is better to warn all members who are creating this fuss on this Forum about their irresponsible posts.
Brother I don't know about past as I m not that frequent member on the forum but If I find something really really controversial... something like where people are bowing before someone or kissing feet or someone dancing in the name of ISLAM etc etc...
At least I can't bear that and I would definitely bring it out and show their real face to the world with my limited knowledge of QURAN and HADITH ...
that's what my deen teaches me...
you are saying that even these things in the name of ISLAM are Halal and Jaiz .... We can't talk about them ????
I am not a follower of anyone teaching Islam in current era or present times but I am a strict fillower of QURAN and SUNNAH (Sahih Hadith)
I don't have any animosity with a molvi or so called scholar or a normal person talking about ISLAM ...
but when such activities are conducted which are against the very soul of ISLAMIC DOCTRINE in the name of ISLAM .....
how can you stop yourself to condemn them ???
I didn't get your opinion ???
which Propaganda against Sheikh Tahir UL Qadri ???
how is it a propaganda if I post a clip where he is dancing and promoting dance and music in the name of ISLAM ???
May ALLAH guide you
Salam
Knowledge Seeker
Senator (1k+ posts)
Brother. I believe you but Your first statement became fashion symbol nowadays, People are bashing other groups and scholars by using umbrella of Quran and Sunna.
If you want to talk about any issue it is always better to discuss in general and even if you can not understand some actions of Muslims then try to find out their view academically. These issues have been discussed many time on this forum. search the forum and you would find out the details.
Basically, we should concentrate on the unity of Muslim instead of discussing someone to create hatred among each other.
Knowledge Seeker
Senator (1k+ posts)
@Amer
Here are some links about discussion on Music
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?33864-What-kind-of-Islam-is-this
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?33863-MUSIC-AND-ISLAM&highlight=music
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?33049-Wether-music-should-be-the-part-of-this-site&highlight=music
Here are some links about discussion on Music
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?33864-What-kind-of-Islam-is-this
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?33863-MUSIC-AND-ISLAM&highlight=music
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?33049-Wether-music-should-be-the-part-of-this-site&highlight=music
cannot understand some actions of muslims ???
anyone can condemn taliban, suicide bombers, so called muslim terrorism but no one can condemn these acts of heresy and bidaat ....
tell me brother if you find not Sheikh Tahir UL Qadri but someone else in these videos where people are bowing down (doing sajda) or kissing feet of that person, would your response be the same ???
I don't ask for other acts but bring me only one AAYAT from QURAN or one Hadith which justifies sajda to a human being ???
I am telling you that I have seen that clip with my own eyes where this is being done to dr. tahir ul qadri ...
how can you or he justify that ???
may ALLAH guide you brother.
yes brother that was my concern,that how peoples can bow to any human, and that so called molvi mr tahir ul qadri , i think in his eyes these things are ok,but that's not Islam,i know he will(tahir ul qadri) give you some kind of false explanation to make his follower's happy.but my bow my sajda and my dua my manat is just for ALLAH.
ALLAH sub ko hadaith day,aur imaan ata farmaye,ameen
ALLAH sub ko hadaith day,aur imaan ata farmaye,ameen
Pakistani1947
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
We can not compare this so-called Aalim tahir-ul-qadri with great scholars like Dr. Israr Ahmed and Dr. Zakir Naik.
Both, Dr. Israr Ahmed and Dr. Zakir Naik make their opinion based on Qur'aan and Authentic Hadiths.
Whereas this so-called Aalim tahir-ul-qadri's job is to justify what his ancesters have been doing by quoting even un-authentic Hadiths. He will not hesitate to reject Sahih Bukhari Hadith if that Hadith contradicts his believes. There is an authentic Hadith from Sahih Bukhari, mentioned at the end of this post, which clearly explains the prohibition of Musical Instrument. But tahir-ul-qadri would "Aery Choti ka zor laga day ga mausiqui kay haq main" (ایڑی چوٹی کا زور لگا دے گا، موسیقی کے حق میں) because this is what his ancestors have been doing. If today tahir-ul-qadri, start following qur'aan and Hadith, he will loose this lucrative business.
I would like to add one more point - Following are two very different scenarios:
1. Music and Dance as part of culture without making it is part of Shariyah
2. Music and Dance as part of Shariyah
Doing something knowingly against Qur'aan and Sunnah ([FONT="]صلی[/FONT] [FONT="]اللہ[/FONT] [FONT="]علیہ[/FONT] [FONT="]وآلہ[/FONT] [FONT="]وسلم[/FONT]) is one thing and the person can always correct himself because he know that it is wrong. But doing something against Qur'aan and Sunnah ([FONT="]صلی[/FONT] [FONT="]اللہ[/FONT] [FONT="]علیہ[/FONT] [FONT="]وآلہ[/FONT] [FONT="]وسلم[/FONT]) and thinking it is part of religion is very dangerous because the chances are that person will keep on doing it till death without realizing that it is against Qur'aan and Sunnah ([FONT="]صلی[/FONT] [FONT="]اللہ[/FONT] [FONT="]علیہ[/FONT] [FONT="]وآلہ[/FONT] [FONT="]وسلم[/FONT]).
The only person we should follow is our Prophet (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم). It may be very difficult for someone to reject saying of their peer, faqeer, darwaish, wali or someone who claims to have seen our beloved Prophet Muhammad (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) in his dream, but following ONLY Qur'aan and Prophet Muhammad's (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) Sunnah is the only Rah-e-Nijat.
Following is the authentic Hadeeth from Sahih Bukhari:
Narrated Abu 'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari: that he heard the Prophet saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection." (Sahih Bukhari Book #69, Hadith #494v)
Both, Dr. Israr Ahmed and Dr. Zakir Naik make their opinion based on Qur'aan and Authentic Hadiths.
Whereas this so-called Aalim tahir-ul-qadri's job is to justify what his ancesters have been doing by quoting even un-authentic Hadiths. He will not hesitate to reject Sahih Bukhari Hadith if that Hadith contradicts his believes. There is an authentic Hadith from Sahih Bukhari, mentioned at the end of this post, which clearly explains the prohibition of Musical Instrument. But tahir-ul-qadri would "Aery Choti ka zor laga day ga mausiqui kay haq main" (ایڑی چوٹی کا زور لگا دے گا، موسیقی کے حق میں) because this is what his ancestors have been doing. If today tahir-ul-qadri, start following qur'aan and Hadith, he will loose this lucrative business.
I would like to add one more point - Following are two very different scenarios:
1. Music and Dance as part of culture without making it is part of Shariyah
2. Music and Dance as part of Shariyah
Doing something knowingly against Qur'aan and Sunnah ([FONT="]صلی[/FONT] [FONT="]اللہ[/FONT] [FONT="]علیہ[/FONT] [FONT="]وآلہ[/FONT] [FONT="]وسلم[/FONT]) is one thing and the person can always correct himself because he know that it is wrong. But doing something against Qur'aan and Sunnah ([FONT="]صلی[/FONT] [FONT="]اللہ[/FONT] [FONT="]علیہ[/FONT] [FONT="]وآلہ[/FONT] [FONT="]وسلم[/FONT]) and thinking it is part of religion is very dangerous because the chances are that person will keep on doing it till death without realizing that it is against Qur'aan and Sunnah ([FONT="]صلی[/FONT] [FONT="]اللہ[/FONT] [FONT="]علیہ[/FONT] [FONT="]وآلہ[/FONT] [FONT="]وسلم[/FONT]).
The only person we should follow is our Prophet (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم). It may be very difficult for someone to reject saying of their peer, faqeer, darwaish, wali or someone who claims to have seen our beloved Prophet Muhammad (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) in his dream, but following ONLY Qur'aan and Prophet Muhammad's (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) Sunnah is the only Rah-e-Nijat.
Following is the authentic Hadeeth from Sahih Bukhari:
Narrated Abu 'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari: that he heard the Prophet saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection." (Sahih Bukhari Book #69, Hadith #494v)
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Knowledge Seeker
Senator (1k+ posts)
@Amer and A-Haseeb,
There is no justification to prove anything permissible which is in fact impermissible.
What you guys need to educate yourself is that before jumping to judge someone you should have proper understanding about that action. If you can not differentiate between Sajda or kissing hands or feets then you are unjustly accusing Muslim due to your ignorance or biased approach.
Check out the following information if you are sincere to know about this matter.
http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.php?askid=56696091721baab9270a159a0e833b8f
Just keep in mind that the above research is done by one of the most learned Scholars of Deoband School of Thought which is not associated to Sheikh Tahir Ul Qadri at all.
May Allah give all of us wisdom to create unity.
There is no justification to prove anything permissible which is in fact impermissible.
What you guys need to educate yourself is that before jumping to judge someone you should have proper understanding about that action. If you can not differentiate between Sajda or kissing hands or feets then you are unjustly accusing Muslim due to your ignorance or biased approach.
Check out the following information if you are sincere to know about this matter.
http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.php?askid=56696091721baab9270a159a0e833b8f
Just keep in mind that the above research is done by one of the most learned Scholars of Deoband School of Thought which is not associated to Sheikh Tahir Ul Qadri at all.
May Allah give all of us wisdom to create unity.
this is from that Fatwa ...
my brother you consider him to be very pious and muttaaqi ....
Is this acceptable for a muttaaqi person to even think of someone bowing before him whether to kiss the feet or doing something else ... this is against Taqwaa and Ijz ...
and believe me that they were doing more than just kissing the feet. they had Ghunghroos in their feet and danced before doing that sajda ...
some of them went out of their mind and tahir ul qadri sab had to touch them to make them normal.
that's what goes towards shirk and qadri sab had no problems with that at all...
I have soft copies of all the six books of Hadith called al-Kutub al-Sittah including Bukhari shareef, Muslim shareef.
I have Mota Imam Malik, Tafseer Ibn Kaseer ...
I can send them if you are anyone else needs them
peace be to you
gazoomartian
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
I dont understand you brothers at all. You guys drag things for ever. give it a rest. Dr Qadri already explained that the sajda pic was a fake and anybody can make anything put on the youtube. We have to tke his wizahat as it came, we shouldnt arguing about any more.
Pakistani1947
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
My Dear Knowledge Seeker,
My humble advise to you - the amount of time and energy you are consuming convincing people to kiss the feet of tahir-ul-qadri, wouldn't it be better if you could spend the same time and energy to convince people to do Sijda to Allah Suhanahtallah???
I read the link given by you. None of the Hadith justify that you can kiss the feet of tahir-ul-qadri. If there is any authentic Hadith from Sahih Satta, then be brave, and quote on this forum.
Furthermore, the same Aalim (Ml. Ismail Moosa) has issued fatwa regarding impermeability of Music in Islam. Would you reject his Fatwa?? Click the link below:
http://www.al-inaam.com/fataawa/music_detailed.htm
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Knowledge Seeker
Senator (1k+ posts)
I have provided the Link of Deoband School of Thought deliberately for you guys in order to realize that this matter is not specific to Sheikh Tahir ul Qadri.Actually, I had not provided you view of Dr. Tahir Ul Qadri because you might have blamed him as usual for misinterpreting the references.
Finally, I have shared my responsibility for you to avoid targeting specific personalities based on ignorance. Now, It is your choice either to keep criticizing him or do some constructive work towards the unity of Muslims.
Wa Allah, I do not have any doubt about your lack of wisdom to understand the simple material.That is why, I had not even mentioned your name when provided the information. There is no point to provide you any reference because You always show reluctance to stick to the discussion and instead run around by doing copy-Past or ignoring the center point of discussion(Many Posts are indication of my statement).
Again, Your recklessness about understanding my view in this matter is quite obvious. I have mentioned many times in my other posts that there are two schools of thought about Music in Islam and I don't want to discuss it again.
Finally, I have shared my responsibility for you to avoid targeting specific personalities based on ignorance. Now, It is your choice either to keep criticizing him or do some constructive work towards the unity of Muslims.
Wa Allah, I do not have any doubt about your lack of wisdom to understand the simple material.That is why, I had not even mentioned your name when provided the information. There is no point to provide you any reference because You always show reluctance to stick to the discussion and instead run around by doing copy-Past or ignoring the center point of discussion(Many Posts are indication of my statement).
Again, Your recklessness about understanding my view in this matter is quite obvious. I have mentioned many times in my other posts that there are two schools of thought about Music in Islam and I don't want to discuss it again.
brother pakistan1947, these people are not trying to understand that bow or sajda is just for Allah.
nothing i can say here, خَتَمَ ٱللَّهُ عَلَىٰ قُلُوبِهِمۡ وَعَلَىٰ سَمۡعِهِمۡ****ۖ وَعَلَىٰٓ أَبۡصَـٰرِهِمۡ غِشَـٰوَةٌ۬****ۖ وَلَهُمۡ عَذَابٌ عَظِيمٌ۬
خدا نے ان کے دلوں اور کانوں پر مہر لگا رکھی ہے اور ان کی آنکھوں پر پردہ (پڑا ہوا) ہے اور ان کے لیے بڑا عذاب (تیار) ہے
Allah hum sub ko imaan ata farmaye
Pakistani1947
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Dear Brother Knowledge Seeker, I do not understand what was copy & and paste in my post or why you think that I am not sticking to the point.
I do not understand why are you so shy to respond to my question. Do you any have answer to my question "I read the link given by you. None of the Hadith justify that you can kiss the feet of tahir-ul-qadri. If there is any authentic Hadith from Sahih Satta, then be brave, and quote on this forum."
This is a very serious matter. You are trying to convince my Muslim Brothers to kiss the feet of tahir-ul-qadri. If some of my Muslim brother start kissing the feet of tahir-ul-qadri because of your arguments and if on the day of judgment it is found that kissing of feet of tahir-ul-qadri is act of SHIRK and you were found guilty of convincing Muslim to perform this act of SHIRK. Just think about it.... What could be your ANJAM (انجام).
FOR A MUSLIM IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO KISS THE FEET OF tahir-ul-qadri BUT IT IS NECESSARY (فرض) TO DO SIJDA (سجدہ ) TO ALLAH
بَلَىٰ مَنْ أَسْلَمَ وَجْهَهُ لِلَّهِ وَهُوَ مُحْسِنٌ فَلَهُ أَجْرُهُ عِندَ رَبِّهِ وَلَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ
Nay,-whoever submits His whole self to Allah and is a doer of good,- He will get his reward with his Lord; on such shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
ہاں جس نے اپنا منہ الله کے سامنے جھکا دیا اور وہ نیکو کار بھی ہو تو اس کے لیے اس کا بدلہ اس کے رب کے ہاں ہے اور ان پر نہ کوئی خوف ہوگا اور نہ وہ غمگین ہوں گے
Qur'aan (Al-Baqara, 2:112)
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abbasiali
Minister (2k+ posts)
Dear all Participating Brothers and Sisters,
Our team really do appreciate all of your concerns and contributions in this regard.
We only promote those threads, which we found could lead to some sort of knowledge, and since we have Muslims, who practice Islam under different believes, Team doesn't like to get involved in any kind of debate, which becomes personal. We do request all of our participant to refrain any kind of posting, which lead towards any kind of controversy. We will appreciate all of our members cooperation in this regard,
Please do report any kind of material, which you all find objectionable, We promise appropriate action will be taken at its earliest.
Allah Hafiz
Our team really do appreciate all of your concerns and contributions in this regard.
We only promote those threads, which we found could lead to some sort of knowledge, and since we have Muslims, who practice Islam under different believes, Team doesn't like to get involved in any kind of debate, which becomes personal. We do request all of our participant to refrain any kind of posting, which lead towards any kind of controversy. We will appreciate all of our members cooperation in this regard,
Please do report any kind of material, which you all find objectionable, We promise appropriate action will be taken at its earliest.
Allah Hafiz
gazoomartian
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
People should also refrain from overdoing cross firing. Some folks just keep going on and on making it boring to say the least. If response to response is in a good taste then moderators have no control over but the members themselves should not go on for ever it. But this has to be on a voluntary basis not forced by the moderators. my take
Pakistani1947
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Dear Gazo bhai, a serious religious debate is boring for you and why would you try to find fun in every topic?
awan4ever
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I think the main problem with all of us is that we take the contextual debate and twist it into attacks on personalities by calling them 'jahil molvis' among other things. I am not a strict fan of any of the leading scholars that are under debate here but I would not go out and call them jahil outright because for one they are definitely more knowledgeable than me so I have no right to call them jahil. I am way more jahil than them.
Secondly I suggest that since these debates are religious in nature so we should be very careful in our criticisms as it is a 'debate' which means anyone of us can be wrong.
Thirdly if you have something against someones interpretation of something then theres a polite way of disagreeing instead of exposing the 'jihalat' in oneself and going on a cursing spree with thread names starting with 'another example of xyz molvis jihalat' as if you yourself are the know-all and end-all of all religious and wordly knowledge!
Secondly I suggest that since these debates are religious in nature so we should be very careful in our criticisms as it is a 'debate' which means anyone of us can be wrong.
Thirdly if you have something against someones interpretation of something then theres a polite way of disagreeing instead of exposing the 'jihalat' in oneself and going on a cursing spree with thread names starting with 'another example of xyz molvis jihalat' as if you yourself are the know-all and end-all of all religious and wordly knowledge!
