Pervaiz Musharaf Leaves American Anchor Speechless! Defending Pak Army!
- Thread starter sarmad
- Start date
sniperkhan
Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
yaaawn! natural process of development going on over the years.....hmmm, how "NATURAL" for the foreign reserves to grow from 700 million in nawaz's time to 18 billion. very natural i'd say. btw, where is this "nature" nowadays??? the rest of your post and furry's post is same ole' cliche'd BS that u blind sheep continue to get herded with. lots of luck. i rest my case here and wait for the crow-eyed "QOM ka IFTIKHAR" to take notice of the massacre in sialkot. the hearing is already "suo moted" to the next month. oh, and one last thing, Scholarships are NOT bought, they are AWARDED. if u'd gone to college u'd have known. i feel sorry for u guys actually, waiting on the ocean's shore waiting for imran khan's sun to rise.......while the east slowly slides into west!
Toodle--oo!
sniperkhan
Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
the irony of it all is that media these days, in hush-hush words, remembering those days and indirectly missing his leadership!
S
shagi
Guest
Long Live Musharaf.... You are great patriot.
ali_ravian
Councller (250+ posts)
He is a very sharp person. a nice answer but i do not think he made him speechless.............I am not a very fan of Mushraf but he is the only guy who showed us prosperity
Pakistan_1
Citizen
Well Said....
Jeaayyyyy Musharaffffff
Jeaayyyyy Musharaffffff
GeoG
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Are you pretending or really are dumbest person. You are so jumping up that our reserves had grown from 700 million in 1998 to 16 Billion in 2007, can you tell me what was the amount of debt we had to pay in 1998 and then compare it with 2007, you will get your answer. Shaukat Aziz told you how to play with figures but did not teach you how to read it balance sheet.
If I borrow 100 Dollars and declare them in my assets but don't say anything about my liabilities, you keep living in Cukooland, you don't own that money.
Was there a single year between 1998 to 2007 when Pakistan had trade surplus, NO. All it was borrowed money but you like to declare assets without informing us of liabilities.
Normally scholarships are won or awarded but this was Musharraf B... who sold these to his cronies and keep the shit of going to college to your f.. goodself, we know what we did and can teach you a bloody lesson anyday, anytime....
bons
Minister (2k+ posts)
Where was his courage when Americans threatened to send Pakistan in stone age? He peed his pants and started following their orders like a puppy. This coward and shameless creature has ruined all insttutions of Pakistan. Now he is trying to pose as a hero in media.
May Allah save us from such traitors.
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In 1999,
Pakistan GDP was around $ 62 billion dollars
Pakistan external debt was $38 billion
Pakistan internal debt was around Rs 1700 billion = $32 billion (@Rs 54 to a dollar)
Total debt was $70 billion
Debt to GDP ration was over 100 percent.
Total interest (not capital payment, but just interest) on above debt was over 8 billion dollars a year (around 3.5 billion dollars on external debt and over 4.5 billion dollars on internal debt .. as internal debt was at much higher interest rate, because most of those debts were in the form of National Saving Certificates, that carried interest of around 17 percent but after taking tax out, net cost was around 14 to 15 percent). That means Musharraf government paid over $64 billion dollars in last 8 years on debt that pre-Musharraf governments took (that cost is without paying any principal amount, or in other words, without decreasing the debt previous governments took).
[At one time (May 1998) dollar debt was over $43 billion and Rs debt was around Rs 1500 billion, but NS in his famous act of freezing dollars account forced conversion of those dollars into Rupees at Rs 46 to a dollar, and thus decreased dollar debt but increased Rupee debt.
Note: When Zia died in 1988, Pakistan debt was $13.5 billion external debt and around Rs 350 billion internal debt.].
In 2007,
GDP = $146.5 billion dollars (by end of June 2007) … By now, Dec 2007, it should be around 157 billion dollars.
Pakistan external debt on 30 June 2007 was around $40 billion dollars
Pakistan internal debt on 30 June 2007 was around Rs 2590 billion rupees or $42.5 billion dollars
Total debt at 30 June was around $82.5 billion dollars
Debt to GDP ratio at 30 June was around 56 percent
One should remember that apart of debt not increasing that much, Musharraf government paid over $64 dollars in interest on debt taken by past governments. Hence, whatever debt has increased, in reality Musharraf government has paid off huge debt in real term (something happened first time in history of Pakistan), else Musharaf governmetn inherited around $70 billion debt, and if Musharraf government had not taken any new debt and neither paid any interest on old debt, than today total debt, in rupees and dollars, would have been around $170 billion (as it would have increased at compound rate of around 11.5 to 12 percent a year)
Currently, according to PML-N Ahsan Iqbal:
ISLAMABAD: Ahsan Iqbal, the PML-N spokesman on Friday objected the government's move of seeking US$ 3 billion loan from World Bank and Asian Development Bank for rehabilitation of people and insfrastructure of flood affected areas. Adressing a press conference here he said, Rs 300 billion can be mobilized domestically, why burden the country with more debt as total external debt is likely to grow alarmingly by more than 43 per cent over the next five years, to about $73 billion in 2015-16 from about $55.6 billion this year. Ahsan said the country is already drowning in spiral debt and likely to grow alarmingly by more than 43 per cent over the next five years, to about $73 billion in 2015-16 from about $55.6 billion this year billion. He said, PML-N has already proposed a formula to the government to tackle the flood devastation unifying the nation on a single platform for resource mobilization. He, however appreciated the assistance given by USA, UK, KSA and other friendly countries in this need of hour. If we show a stronger domestic resolve to tackle the challenge through tightening our belt, the international community would have felt more re-assured in helping us, he said. He said economies can't be run permanently on foreign aid and borrowing. Domestic and Foreign investments are dipping due to deficit trust, he said. PML-N central leader demanded that government must take National Assembly into confidence on new debt because country's total debt-to-GDP ratio has crossed 61 percent during the current fiscal year, breaching the 60 percent limit set by the Parliament under the "Fiscal Responsibility and Debt Limitation Act." in 2005 by Musharraf goverment. He mentioned the report of the State Bank of Pakistan on its official website as Pakistan's external debt-to-GDP ratio hit 30 percent while the domestic debt-to-GDP ratio mounted to an alarming level of 31 percent.
Current situation:
debt: $60+ billion[+ marking State Bank hiding figures of the debt acquired by june 2010]
$1= Rs.85.69
Total debt-to-GDP ratio= 61%
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I understand your sentiment .... Also disagree with qasim845 above , Musharraf wasn't the best thing happened for Pakistan , Mohd. Ali Jinnah was the best thing Pakistan ever had.
Now Geo , I hear yea on you suspicion but listen to him again ...before you do though keep this in mind . Army's budget let's say was 100 before all this nonsense war started. Army was meeting the needs with a 100. Then this war came along , The expenses would remain the same ? During an ongoing war expenses are about 10 times more than peaceful times , Also even if majority of that money was spent on strengthening our own armed forces , there is no need for us Question that . I am a huge fan of Imran , only complain I have against him is he has become sorta anti military of his own country .... not as bad as Nawaz but a hint of it ..... We, unfortunately cannot cut our defense budget cuz India is still standing tall on the shoulders of new daddies. China is a good friend but not as resourceful as the US just yet ....so we have to keep raising our military status on continuous basis. When I said I understand your sentiment cuz we all know if we didn't have to spend so much on our defense , lot more money can could be spent on more civil issues . Pakistan army isn't consisted of Zardaris and Nawazs and Altafs ... as a proud nation we ought to always back our security forces .... We can't have things like Indians think or feel that we are such losers who are never satisfied with anything , not our politicians , not our government and now not our Army either ? The army who everyone says is the front line aid in needy days ? Don't you think Army and AF is spending more since the flooding that they would in normal times ...? yes they are and we know very well our government will not spare anything for the extra efforts and/or expenses occured . It's not like the forces bill the government for 100000 used in fuel everyday . Hence they have their own budget , besides that budget if US thrusts a war on us ...of course US has to pay for everything ... our's is world's 5th largest army I believe and it takes more than just true human effort . With our bare minimum budgets , Pakistan could never become a nuclear state ... so it takes some to be some . Don't misunderstand me by all this ...I am not defending Musharraf , I am defending Pakistan and it's armed forces . We need to quit this attitude of questioning our own army altogether , Army and Allah's will are the only two things keeping Pakistan together in these times .
GeoG
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Although you are using Shaukat Aziz Adultrated figures, even these are showing a total increment of $12.5 Billion but Govt of Pakistan.
We know the gimmicary of Shaukat Aziz who used swaped funds to balance the books but that is way above your head, don't bother, 12.5 Billion of 15 billion after selling our assets like PTCL is a good enough answer for you.
you go boy ...vote for zardari next tp time around or do a step better and vote th fat and bald cartoon this time around. It's his turn now . Some seriously stupid response . US gets hit ... Bush is barking around like mad dog and bombs Iraq , comes after Afghanistan ....then say " if you aren't with us , you are against us " what stupid maniac would tell him then , come bomb us too ? it's not Americans who threatened us ...it was their bombs .... 30 yrs from now when US is in this position , when they are done selling their bombs for food and money and when China would to stand up and bark 'em down ...Americans would be peeing too ....maybe in their shorts if it was summer.
Back then , whole world was with US , some for sympathy , some with intimidation . Pak Army or it's people never said we could beat US in a conventional war , we know we can't . Today when the world knows another face of the US , now that they know they are losing in Afghanistan , nothing was found in Iraq ... US is running out of valid reasons ...and that would prompt anyone with a clearer conscious to speak their mind . One last thing ....it's not about courage all the time .... a midget can't fight a giant in a fair fight , midget is bound to lose . It's common sense there is no comparison between Pak and US resources , powers , nukes , arms etc .
on the way out , if it was you back then ...you would tell the americans to fight their way through ? Just to show your courage and stupid gutts , you would risk the whole country for your ego ? Talk is cheap dude !
abbasiali
Minister (2k+ posts)
Hahaha
I really like the way he had eaten half of amount as our own money, lol, he was well prepared, I think that's the reason, they took him through body scanner. lol
A reasonably good reply. Only thing bombing of Iraq came much later than that in Afghanistan. I assume you are referring to Iraq bombing under Bush Jr. :)
GeoG
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Fair comment and question.
Let me start by saying that I LOVE my army and even their families who have given their sons and daughters to defend our country. It is the Generals like Musharraf, Ziaulhaq, Akthar Abdulrehman, Mansoor ul Haq Anwar Shamim, I loath. Man who said Pakistan First but when the time came to stand up and be counted his own ASS came before Pakistan. I am not insider with Army but if all the generals gave their blessing of arresting all judges, then I would like to seel all Generals to be hanged in GHQ by a tribunal.
You are right that Army expenses would increase but not by 10 times. Army don't increase salary during war times and two divionios deployment in troubled areas would increase overall expense by maybe 20 percent. Army budget increased by 40 percent 2006 and that should have adequately covered the opreational costs. Where are these 7.5 Billion Dollars, why there is no accounts, why are these not accounted for in our national exchequer. Is army sole nationalist and all civilians are traitors? No simple answer is that they don't like civilian control over their affairs, they think themselves above any law of the land.
Our Nuclear and Missile technologies were brainchilds of civilians and we owe a lot to Ghulam Ishaq Khan, a hated political person but he kept an excellent balance in our military and civilian requirements. We need a balance and we need some accountability of military. You can persuade of an expense a lot easier if you convince me rather ordering me to allocate certain funds for an undisclosed project.
Many times I have stated on this forum that only Shaheed in our country are the Jawans who sacrifice their lives for sake of Pakistan. There is an Army's Captain grave (Kargil Shaheed) next to my mother's grave in Lahore and I say my Dua on Shaheed's grave first before going to my mother's, this is my love for our Army but Generals is a different story.
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plz don't be personal it can be discussed in a descent way
what would have imran khan done if he was in musharraf's place no one knows.......what he would do in future is only a speculation.
GeoG
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
YAHYA87
Senator (1k+ posts)
Imran Khan is to emotional which is the only reason he couldnt be called a leader cause once their was another very emotional leader name ZA Bhutto and we all know what he did to Pakistan just for the lust of power....On the other hand Musharraf was Pragmatic and Rational and also very objective thanks to his years of military experience this is the reason why he is best suited for Administration...
