My email conversation with Saudi Friend

[gazoomartian]

You connot lable every thing as jews and declare it non-islamic. You have double standards. You live in Canada and enjoy this society's justice and equality. But you hate these values for other islamic countries to achieve. The concepts of liberalism and democratic participation were already present in the medieval Islamic world. Azizah Y. al-Hibri, for example, argues that Medina during Muhammad's time was an early example of a democratic state but that the development of democracy in the Islamic world eventually came to a halt following to the Sunni–Shia split.

If the outsider's aim to stir up a revolt in Saudia to establish a true (even Canadian style) democracy, then it would be all good.

It is your childish notion that you think that by revolting Saudis will get this western democracy. If you think that then you need to change your diaper young man.

Revolt succeeded in Egypt and Tunisia, how much democracy are you witnessing there? Do you think we have democracy in Pakistan? Have you noticed what only two years of 'democrazy' has done to Pakistan in terms of Islamic way of life.
Uryaniat, jhoot, fahashi on TV stations, dance, drugs, sharab and qatal all are an ongoing thing in Pak. Is that what you want in Pakistan, Saudia etc? This is th ekind of revolt they want to bring in Iran but alhamdulillah so far they have not succeeded.....

If thats what you want by democracy then I rather have an eternal Martial Law

 

[Muhammad Tauseef A. Bajwa]

I ask my Saudi Arabian friend who is native Saudi about the current situation & thats what he replied me . I m posting this email conversation for those who are still blind & think that this is the propaganda of west while people are happy in saudia. When i ask whats going on in saudi arabia ?


I am good الحمدلله
what about you?
Yeah I know about that and I am so sad for that. What happened is that in Jeddah city (Jeddah is very close to Makkah and Madinah) they had a heavy rain, and because of the vvvvveeeerrrryyy bad streets, they was drawn, their cars was drown their houses, people have no home no, and few died because of that. You know, this event happened for the second time in the same city. So at the end, all that because of the "Extremely bad government", the Saudi government maintenance for the streets was veryyyyy bad because they do not wanna loose lots of money on that so they used cheap equipments in maintaining streets. This government care about other countries to be in a good reputation (fame), it builds buildings in other countries and it donate for others, while its people are getting poor, some of them do not have food for the day, and some people sleep without a blanket, no jobs, and few of them are died because of what happened in Jeddah. I know I am angry, you may be amazed but please do not think that the government of Saudi Arabia is a very good one... Now, most Saudi people are not satisfied with this government but no body was talking, because if we will talk or make any revolution we simply will be in a grave. but I hope things going better in the future.
And you might know that there are revolutions on government in Egypt, Algeria, Sudan, and Tunis. All that revolutions because of their careless presidents like there are lots of poor people who do not have jobs... so the good thing is that Tunisian people did a revolution and then their president frightened and escaped lol... do you know where is he now? The king of Saudi Arabia taking care of him now... people now are saying that unfair person found an unfair one to be in secure under his shade... they mean that the unfair Tunisian president is in secure under the Saudi king shade lol
So that is briefly the whole story.

__________________________________________

Best of all is to read what others members had said on a subject issue and only then give your honest opinion either in support or an against. Add your comments only if you had some personal experience or knowledge about the subject in question with a strong belief that point you intend to share had sufficient credence!

Going wayward creates problem. Better those among us who had a positive and mature thinking if interested in a specific matter, seek opinion of a colleague by PM. If reply has credentials to share post them on the forum for benefit of others. Positive or negative ratings is irrelative when purpose becomes supreme. Majority of members are below par excellence and had a single option, either agree or differ, with an observation (Given).

If some one starts a vague thread other members must ignore it rather going after the poor fellow. Similarly, those classified having sympathies with a particular sect, thought or a political / religious party should better be ignored. In conclusion, views expressed on this forum are closely watched by those concerned. Never allow them to make mockery of our internal conflicts. Rather, get united to give such elements, a befitting reply!

Coming to conditions in Saudi-Arabia and uprisings / revolts in Islamic world a lot evidential and substance material is there but it's another lenghty subject. Those interested may ask for an independant, impartial and non biased observation by PM as suggested, above!

 

[sngilani]

If the outsider's aim to stir up a revolt in Saudia to establish a true (even Canadian style) democracy, then it would be all good.

It is your childish notion that you think that by revolting Saudis will get this western democracy. If you think that then you need to change your diaper young man.

Revolt succeeded in Egypt and Tunisia, how much democracy are you witnessing there? Do you think we have democracy in Pakistan? Have you noticed what only two years of 'democrazy' has done to Pakistan in terms of Islamic way of life.
Uryaniat, jhoot, fahashi on TV stations, dance, drugs, sharab and qatal all are an ongoing thing in Pak. Is that what you want in Pakistan, Saudia etc? This is th ekind of revolt they want to bring in Iran but alhamdulillah so far they have not succeeded.....

If thats what you want by democracy then I rather have an eternal Martial Law

The concepts of liberalism and democratic participation were already present in the medieval Islamic world. Azizah Y. al-Hibri, for example, argues that Medina during Muhammad's time was an early example of a democratic state but that the development of democracy in the Islamic world eventually came to a halt following to the SunniShia split.

Democracy in Islam is a controversial issue. Some Muslims don't believe in the Western Democratic System, and others do.
After the death of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, each one of the four Caliphs who ruled after him, differed from one another about the leadership. Let us briefly examine what they did:
1- Abu Baker was elected by the majority of the Muslims right after the death of Prophet Muhammad. He however, served until he died.
2- Omar was given the leadership by Abu Baker. Muslims were not given the opportunity to vote for Omar or for anyone else. Omar was imposed upon them.
3- Uthman became the leader in an awkward way. Omar had 6 elected representatives from the Muslims, and he purposely made their number even, to vote for the next Caliph or leader, because Omar was very sick and was about to die. Three of those representatives voted for Uthman and the other three voted for somebody else. Ironically, Omar brought his son, who had no political influence or power and didn't represent anyone what so ever, and he had him choose between Uthman and his competitor. Omar's son chose Uthman, and this is how Uthman became the leader.
4- Ali became the leader after revolutionists killed Uthman for causing so much corruption by bringing his family to power and gave them all kinds of wealth from the Muslims' State's Wealth. They simply voted for him and he became the leader. Hell broke loose after wards, because Muslims thought that Ali killed Uthman. The famous battle of Camel was declared and around 60,000 Muslim lives were lost in that terrible war.
So, who's foot steps should we follow? Clearly, all of them differed from one another, and there is no set standards that we could follow from the four Caliphs. Please visit Non of the four Caliphs was really perfect! My rebuttal to the Muslim Sunni and Shia sects.
Personally, I think that elections were practiced. Abu Baker and Ali were certainly elected by the majority of the voters. The question, however, remains: For how long should a leader rule?

Which is better, one leader for life, or several ones?

Can the leader abuse his power in Islam? Does Islam have any limits to the leader?

 

[Pakistani1947]

As far as political issues are concerned, I have no sympathies with current Saudi Ruler. But from religious point of view, these rulers have done incredible job by keeping the Holy Land clean of all kind of biddat and SHIRK which is widely spread in Pakistan and other Islamic countries.

I will pray to Allah may Allah give hidayat to current Saudi rulers to rule their country with the spirit of Islam. And may they leave thier Lavish life style and serve the country in the same way as example set by Khalifa Rashideen (Aameen).

It is very easy for Allah to replace them with different rulers who will continue to keep the Land of Islam free of Biddat and Shirk and still serve the country with true Spirit of Islam.

It is not a mystery to know that only Shia and innovators (بدعتی) hates Saudi ruler not due to political reason but because these Saudi ruler are very strict to prohibit any SHIRKIA activity in their Holy Land. Shia and innovators (بدعتی) will Isha-Allah keep on burning inside till the day of judgment but they will never be able to perform their SHIRKIA activities in the Holy Land (Aameen), Insha-Allah.

 

[begubaba]

Saudia mein Hazrat Mehdi (RA) ki Aamad tak KHILAFAT chahe wo kitni hee kamzor q na ho rahegi.
INSHA ALLAH

 

[sngilani]

As far as political issues are concerned, I have no sympathies with current Saudi Ruler. But from religious point of view, these rulers have done incredible job by keeping the Holy Land clean of all kind of biddat and SHIRK which is widely spread in Pakistan and other Islamic countries.

I will pray to Allah may Allah give hidayat to current Saudi rulers to rule their country with the spirit of Islam. And may they leave thier Lavish life style and serve the country in the same way as example set by Khalifa Rashideen (Aameen).

It is very easy for Allah to replace them with different rulers who will continue to keep the Land of Islam free of Biddat and Shirk and still serve the country with true Spirit of Islam.

It is not a mystery to know that only Shia and innovators (بدعتی) hates Saudi ruler not due to political reason but because these Saudi ruler are very strict to prohibit any SHIRKIA activity in their Holy Land. Shia and innovators (بدعتی) will Isha-Allah keep on burning inside till the day of judgment but they will never be able to perform their SHIRKIA activities in the Holy Land (Aameen), Insha-Allah.

What a silly arguement in supporting a kingdom. We should be true muslims. We should follow the ways of Prophet Muhammad (SAW). He came to abolish kings and slavery. The current leaders of Muslim Ummah, are full of Kings and Princes. Is it fair that only the son of someone and son of someone's son can be a ruler. How you can give some one a 'kingdom' as a personal pocession to be distributed among his sons. How they are better than any another Muslim?

 

[mehwish_ali]

You can not satisfy all the people all the time,
but some of the people some of the time.

Saudi monarch had provided the facilities to their nationals that no one can imagine.
An ordinary citizen can get loan from government without any interest.
He dont have to provide any securities or guaranties for return.
If the citizen died before he complete the loan payment the remaining amount is waived off.

Saudi citizens have job protection, the saudization policy had provided jobs to every eligible citizen.

Road network provide access to every town and village in this vast desert.
Hospitals and school building are there in small towns which will cater the need for next 50 years or more.

Best medical facilities are provided to their citizens without any charges.
Best educational facilities are same plus the citizens are sent for higher education around the world with scholarships covering everything for the student plus his family.

Saudi monarch provide the best possible facilities to more then 3 million Hajees every year.
There is always improvement at Holy places for pilgrims.
Billions of Riyals had been invested on projects at Holy places.

I am not advocating them but thats what the reality is.
The oil revenue is passed to down to ordinary citizens.

Any un-rest or demonstrations are arranged by outside powers whose agenda is to weaken the Muslim state.

میں تو سعودی عرب کے معاملات میں اتنا نہیں پڑتی کیونکہ یہاں کچھ لوگ پہلے سے ہی تفرقہ بازی میں ماہر ہیں اور مذہبی منافرت پھیلا کر سعودی حکمرانوں کا دفاع کرنا چاہتے ہیں۔

بہرحال، آپ سے درخواست ہے کہ آپ اپنا مراسلہ پڑھئے اور پھر ایک نظر ان چیزوں پر ڈال لیجئے کہ:

۔1۔ کیا آپ کو پتا ہے کہ سعودی شہزادوں کی تعداد کتنے ہزاروں میں ہے؟ (ایک اندازے کے مطابق انکی تعداد 30000 تیس ہزار کے قریب ہے اور اگلے کچھ سالوں میں ڈبل ہونے والی ہے۔ لنک)

۔2۔ ان ہزاروں سعودہ شہزادوں میں سے انکے نام گنوا دیجئے جو کبھی کوئی "کام کاج" کرنے کے لیے کسی جاب پر جاتے ہوں۔ (سوائے عیاشی کرنے کے انکے پاس اور کوئی جاب نہیں ہے۔ اور یہ عیاشی کے علاوہ کوئی جاب نہیں کرتے ہیں)۔ بادشاہ اور ان شہزادوں کے تیس تیس اور چالیس چالیس یا اس سے بھی زیادہ اولادیں ہوتی ہیں۔

۔3۔ سعودی شہزادے سعودیہ میں "قانون سے بالاتر" تصور ہوتے ہیں۔ پولیس انکو ہاتھ نہیں لگا سکتی۔ سعودی شہزادوں کی دعوتوں میں کثیر تعداد میں مغربی لوگ موجود ہوتے ہیں بمع عورتوں کے اور کھل کر شراب نوشی ہوتی ہے اور پولیس ان پر ریڈ نہیں کرتی ہے۔

مگر مجھے لگتا ہے کہ آپ کو یہ سب چیزیں بھی منظور ہیں اور اسکی وجوہات وہ ہیں جس کی بنیاد پر چیز مذہبی منافرت پر آ کر ختم ہو جاتی ہے۔

میں تو اس تھریڈ میں شاید مزید حصہ نہیں لوں گی، مگر جلد یا بدیر اللہ خود کوئی نہ کوئی تدبیر پیدا کر دے گا کہ لوگوں کی آنکھیں کھل جائیں گی مذہبی منافرت کے نام پر ظالموں کا ساتھ دینا ہرگز اسلام نہیں ہے۔
​

 

[sngilani]

میں تو سعودی عرب کے معاملات میں اتنا نہیں پڑتی کیونکہ یہاں کچھ لوگ پہلے سے ہی تفرقہ بازی میں ماہر ہیں اور مذہبی منافرت پھیلا کر سعودی حکمرانوں کا دفاع کرنا چاہتے ہیں۔ ​

بہرحال، آپ سے درخواست ہے کہ آپ اپنا مراسلہ پڑھئے اور پھر ایک نظر ان چیزوں پر ڈال لیجئے کہ:​

۔1۔ کیا آپ کو پتا ہے کہ سعودی شہزادوں کی تعداد کتنے ہزاروں میں ہے؟ (ایک اندازے کے مطابق انکی تعداد 30000 تیس ہزار کے قریب ہے اور اگلے کچھ سالوں میں ڈبل ہونے والی ہے۔ لنک)​

۔2۔ ان ہزاروں سعودہ شہزادوں میں سے انکے نام گنوا دیجئے جو کبھی کوئی "کام کاج" کرنے کے لیے کسی جاب پر جاتے ہوں۔ (سوائے عیاشی کرنے کے انکے پاس اور کوئی جاب نہیں ہے۔ اور یہ عیاشی کے علاوہ کوئی جاب نہیں کرتے ہیں)۔ بادشاہ اور ان شہزادوں کے تیس تیس اور چالیس چالیس یا اس سے بھی زیادہ اولادیں ہوتی ہیں۔​

۔3۔ سعودی شہزادے سعودیہ میں "قانون سے بالاتر" تصور ہوتے ہیں۔ پولیس انکو ہاتھ نہیں لگا سکتی۔ سعودی شہزادوں کی دعوتوں میں کثیر تعداد میں مغربی لوگ موجود ہوتے ہیں بمع عورتوں کے اور کھل کر شراب نوشی ہوتی ہے اور پولیس ان پر ریڈ نہیں کرتی ہے۔​

مگر مجھے لگتا ہے کہ آپ کو یہ سب چیزیں بھی منظور ہیں اور اسکی وجوہات وہ ہیں جس کی بنیاد پر چیز مذہبی منافرت پر آ کر ختم ہو جاتی ہے۔​

میں تو اس تھریڈ میں شاید مزید حصہ نہیں لوں گی، مگر جلد یا بدیر اللہ خود کوئی نہ کوئی تدبیر پیدا کر دے گا کہ لوگوں کی آنکھیں کھل جائیں گی مذہبی منافرت کے نام پر ظالموں کا ساتھ دینا ہرگز اسلام نہیں ہے۔ ​

Very good, I appreciate your coments. I agree with you 100%. You have touched the core.

 

[hans]

Boss, every seems to miss one Dear Basic needs... beside food, wealth, civic amenities there is one important item missing from Saudi's list to provide to there citizen....

"Freedom of speech, is the freedom to speak freely without censorship or limitation, or both. The synonymous term freedom of expression is sometimes used to indicate not only freedom of verbal speech but any act of seeking, receiving and imparting information or ideas, regardless of the medium used".


As for Pakistani1947, I think you should go back to School and read/study some history, before you start typing in....
Yar stop trusting your Mohalla Mullah. All he can offer you is Hate..from his Zaban for a few $$$ more.

By the way do you know the difference between the word HATE and Not- liked?

Word Hate, is not good for your health.

 

[QaiserMirza]

میں تو سعودی عرب کے معاملات میں اتنا نہیں پڑتی کیونکہ یہاں کچھ لوگ پہلے سے ہی تفرقہ بازی میں ماہر ہیں اور مذہبی منافرت پھیلا کر سعودی حکمرانوں کا دفاع کرنا چاہتے ہیں۔

بہرحال، آپ سے درخواست ہے کہ آپ اپنا مراسلہ پڑھئے اور پھر ایک نظر ان چیزوں پر ڈال لیجئے کہ:

۔1۔ کیا آپ کو پتا ہے کہ سعودی شہزادوں کی تعداد کتنے ہزاروں میں ہے؟ (ایک اندازے کے مطابق انکی تعداد 30000 تیس ہزار کے قریب ہے اور اگلے کچھ سالوں میں ڈبل ہونے والی ہے۔ لنک)

۔2۔ ان ہزاروں سعودہ شہزادوں میں سے انکے نام گنوا دیجئے جو کبھی کوئی "کام کاج" کرنے کے لیے کسی جاب پر جاتے ہوں۔ (سوائے عیاشی کرنے کے انکے پاس اور کوئی جاب نہیں ہے۔ اور یہ عیاشی کے علاوہ کوئی جاب نہیں کرتے ہیں)۔ بادشاہ اور ان شہزادوں کے تیس تیس اور چالیس چالیس یا اس سے بھی زیادہ اولادیں ہوتی ہیں۔

۔3۔ سعودی شہزادے سعودیہ میں "قانون سے بالاتر" تصور ہوتے ہیں۔ پولیس انکو ہاتھ نہیں لگا سکتی۔ سعودی شہزادوں کی دعوتوں میں کثیر تعداد میں مغربی لوگ موجود ہوتے ہیں بمع عورتوں کے اور کھل کر شراب نوشی ہوتی ہے اور پولیس ان پر ریڈ نہیں کرتی ہے۔

مگر مجھے لگتا ہے کہ آپ کو یہ سب چیزیں بھی منظور ہیں اور اسکی وجوہات وہ ہیں جس کی بنیاد پر چیز مذہبی منافرت پر آ کر ختم ہو جاتی ہے۔

میں تو اس تھریڈ میں شاید مزید حصہ نہیں لوں گی، مگر جلد یا بدیر اللہ خود کوئی نہ کوئی تدبیر پیدا کر دے گا کہ لوگوں کی آنکھیں کھل جائیں گی مذہبی منافرت کے نام پر ظالموں کا ساتھ دینا ہرگز اسلام نہیں ہے۔
​

جس بارے میں علم نہ ہو
جس بارے میں نہ جانتے ہوں

اس بات پر بولنا اور اپنے خیالات کا اظہار کرنا کیا معنی رکھتا ہے

کیا یہ صرف بحث براے بحث ہے یا اپنی لیاقت اور عقل کا دوسروں پر اثر ڈالنا ہے
سیانے کہتے ہیں پہلے تولو پھر بولو
دوسروں میں کیڑے نکلنے سے پہلے اپنے گریباں اور اس پاس بھی ایک نظر ڈال لینی چاہیے
​

 

[sngilani]

جس بارے میں علم نہ ہو
جس بارے میں نہ جانتے ہوں

اس بات پر بولنا اور اپنے خیالات کا اظہار کرنا کیا معنی رکھتا ہے

کیا یہ صرف بحث براے بحث ہے یا اپنی لیاقت اور عقل کا دوسروں پر اثر ڈالنا ہے
سیانے کہتے ہیں پہلے تولو پھر بولو
دوسروں میں کیڑے نکلنے سے پہلے اپنے گریباں اور اس پاس بھی ایک نظر ڈال لینی چاہیے
​

We should follow the way of Prophet Muhammad (SAW). He came to abolish kings and slavery. The current leaders of Muslim Ummah, are full of Kings and Princes. Is it fair that only the son of someone and son of someone's son can be a ruler only. How is he better than another Muslim?

Medina during Muhammad's time was an early example of a democratic state but that the development of democracy in the Islamic world eventually came to a halt following to the Sunni–Shia split. So please do'nt devide us on this useless thread.

 

[yasir1981]

Inshallah tunisia type revolutin can never come in saudi Arabia....This country has done alot for its people welfare and people r never happy wid anyone unless very fierce people take over.......Even for other nationalities companies give u family status and u can bring ur wife and children on the expense of company and ur parents as well...Companies pay rent for ur accomodation and medical as well for ur whole family...U can settle here easily....Even in our countries we have to pay rent to live but here companies do that...if i have so many benefits why would i opt for different type of govt over here.......

 

[mimran301]

Saudia mein Hazrat Mehdi (RA) ki Aamad tak KHILAFAT chahe wo kitni hee kamzor q na ho rahegi.
INSHA ALLAH

This is not weak Khalafat in Saudi Arab, these kings were planted by British Colonials masters put these kings in Saudi Arab, Jordan, Iraq. They rather betrayed Ottoman Khalafat, to be separated from it.
Give me one reason, why these kings should not leave? Islam has option for all kind of ruling systems. Hereditary monarchy(Saudi kings, Jordanian kings etc), Self appointed dictators (Saddam Hussain, Husni Mubarak and Qaddafi) and Majlas Surah(Like Iran). Most of Islamic countries have democratic system i.e Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia and Malaysia. We need Muslim countries like Turkey and Malaysia,....which are thoroughly working and are based on competitive economies. Saudi Arab and UAE and other Oil rich countries are not regular economies. Then certainly there would not be enough jobs creations.

 

[mimran301]

Inshallah tunisia type revolutin can never come in saudi Arabia....This country has done alot for its people welfare and people r never happy wid anyone unless very fierce people take over.......Even for other nationalities companies give u family status and u can bring ur wife and children on the expense of company and ur parents as well...Companies pay rent for ur accomodation and medical as well for ur whole family...U can settle here easily....Even in our countries we have to pay rent to live but here companies do that...if i have so many benefits why would i opt for different type of govt over here.......

Your worst dreams and wildest imaginations are going to become true.... Saudi kings are not ruling with divine command, British put them after World War 1. So these kings to go. Their time has ended.

 

[sngilani]

Inshallah tunisia type revolutin can never come in saudi Arabia....This country has done alot for its people welfare and people r never happy wid anyone unless very fierce people take over.......Even for other nationalities companies give u family status and u can bring ur wife and children on the expense of company and ur parents as well...Companies pay rent for ur accomodation and medical as well for ur whole family...U can settle here easily....Even in our countries we have to pay rent to live but here companies do that...if i have so many benefits why would i opt for different type of govt over here.......

I can only laugh only on you.