Moula Ali (A.S) & Hazrat-e-Abubakr (R.A) & Saqifah Bani Saida

[Wadaich]

Why are you quoting them bukhari, they don't believe in any of these, Its like convincing a Muslim by quoting from the bible.

Except for the Nasbi, Rafzi, and Nuseria, every Aalim-e-Haq from both sides believes/respects each others book; yet priority is always given to own school of thought. It is but natural.

 

[Wadaich]

پوزیشن کیا واضح کرنی اتنی دیر بعد آپ سے بات ہوئی جس کی بہت خوشی ہے اور ،
@socrates khan
سے شائد یہ برداشت نہیں ہوا کے یہاں ،اچھے اچھے بھائیوں کی کوئی کمی نہیں ?

مجھے کیسے پتا چلے کہ آپ کو خوشی ہوئی .............. پوسٹ کو ? تو آپ نے کیا نئیں ..... ہیں جی​

 

[Pakistani1947]

Why are you quoting them bukhari, they don't believe in any of these, Its like convincing a Muslim by quoting from the bible.

Apparently, they (Shai) do not believe in Qur'an....

(Qur'an 36:12) إِنَّا نَحْنُ نُحْيِي الْمَوْتَىٰ وَنَكْتُبُ مَا قَدَّمُوا وَآثَارَهُمْ ۚ وَكُلَّ شَيْءٍ أَحْصَيْنَاهُ فِي إِمَامٍ مُّبِينٍ​

Verily We shall give life to the dead, and We record that which they send before and that which they leave behind, and of all things have We taken account in a clear Book (of evidence).

بے شک ہم ہی مردوں کو زندہ کریں گے اور جو انھوں نے آگے بھیجا اور جو پیچھے چھوڑا اس کو لکھتے ہیں اور ہم نے ہر چیز کو کتاب واضح (لوح محفوظ) میں محفوظ کر رکھا ہے​

In the context of the above aayah and the preceding Aayahs of the Holy Qur'an, it is evident that these words "imaam in mubeen" mean an clear Book (لوح محفوظ). But they would interpret it differently just to justify their false belives.

(Qur'an 33:33) وَقَرْنَ فِي بُيُوتِكُنَّ وَلَا تَبَرَّجْنَ تَبَرُّجَ الْجَاهِلِيَّةِ الْأُولَىٰ ۖ وَأَقِمْنَ الصَّلَاةَ وَآتِينَ الزَّكَاةَ وَأَطِعْنَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ ۚ إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنكُمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرًا​

And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless.

اور اپنے گھروں میں بیٹھی رہو اور گزشتہ زمانہ جاہلیت کی طرح بناؤ سنگھار دکھاتی نہ پھرو اور نماز پڑھو اور زکواة دو اور الله اور اس کے رسول کی فرمانبرداری کرو الله یہی چاہتا ہے کہ اے اس گھر والو تم سے ناپاکی دور کرے اور تمہیں خوب پاک کرے​

The context in which this verse occurs makes it manifest that the word ahl al-bait (people of the house) here implies the wives of the Holy Prophet ﷺ, because the address begins with: "O wives of the Prophet," and they are the addressees in the whole discourse preceding it as well as following it. But Shia will twist its interpretation and say that it proves that Ahle-Bait are infallible (غلطیوں سے پاک).

Should we stop quoting verses of Qur'an as well?

 

[Citizen X]

Apparently, they (Shai) do not believe in Qur'an....

(Qur'an 36:12) إِنَّا نَحْنُ نُحْيِي الْمَوْتَىٰ وَنَكْتُبُ مَا قَدَّمُوا وَآثَارَهُمْ ۚ وَكُلَّ شَيْءٍ أَحْصَيْنَاهُ فِي إِمَامٍ مُّبِينٍ​

Verily We shall give life to the dead, and We record that which they send before and that which they leave behind, and of all things have We taken account in a clear Book (of evidence).

بے شک ہم ہی مردوں کو زندہ کریں گے اور جو انھوں نے آگے بھیجا اور جو پیچھے چھوڑا اس کو لکھتے ہیں اور ہم نے ہر چیز کو کتاب واضح (لوح محفوظ) میں محفوظ کر رکھا ہے​

In the context of the above aayah and the preceding Aayahs of the Holy Qur'an, it is evident that these words "imaam in mubeen" mean an clear Book (لوح محفوظ). But they would interpret it differently just to justify their false belives.

(Qur'an 33:33) وَقَرْنَ فِي بُيُوتِكُنَّ وَلَا تَبَرَّجْنَ تَبَرُّجَ الْجَاهِلِيَّةِ الْأُولَىٰ ۖ وَأَقِمْنَ الصَّلَاةَ وَآتِينَ الزَّكَاةَ وَأَطِعْنَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ ۚ إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنكُمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرًا​

And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless.

اور اپنے گھروں میں بیٹھی رہو اور گزشتہ زمانہ جاہلیت کی طرح بناؤ سنگھار دکھاتی نہ پھرو اور نماز پڑھو اور زکواة دو اور الله اور اس کے رسول کی فرمانبرداری کرو الله یہی چاہتا ہے کہ اے اس گھر والو تم سے ناپاکی دور کرے اور تمہیں خوب پاک کرے​

The context in which this verse occurs makes it manifest that the word ahl al-bait (people of the house) here implies the wives of the Holy Prophet ﷺ, because the address begins with: "O wives of the Prophet," and they are the addressees in the whole discourse preceding it as well as following it. But Shia will twist its interpretation and say that it proves that Ahle-Bait are infallible (غلطیوں سے پاک).

Should we stop quoting verses of Qur'an as well?

Majority of them believe in Tahreef, that the Quran was not preserved in its original form because the Sahaba according to them were enemies of Rasool Allah s.a.w so they destroyed many pages, ayats and took out all passages referring to Syedna Ali r.a

 

[Pakistani1947]

Majority of them believe in Tahreef, that the Quran was not preserved in its original form because the Sahaba according to them were enemies of Rasool Allah s.a.w so they destroyed many pages, ayats and took out all passages referring to Syedna Ali r.a

It means they (Shia) do not believe in following verse:

(Qur'an 15:9) إِنَّا نَحْنُ نَزَّلْنَا الذِّكْرَ وَإِنَّا لَهُ لَحَافِظُونَ
We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).
بےشک یہ (کتاب) نصیحت ہمیں نے اُتاری ہے اور ہم ہی اس کے نگہبان ہیں​

Can you provide any reference?

This is a serious matter , because anybody who does not believe in Qur'an is "KAFIR".

 

[Citizen X]

Except for the Nasbi, Rafzi, and Nuseria, every Aalim-e-Haq from both sides believes/respects each others book; yet priority is always given to own school of thought. It is but natural.

Sorry, have you read any of the 4 shia hadith books? They are chock full of fabricated hadith and who told you they believe in the Sahih Sitta? They believe all except 4 became murtad at the time of the Prophet's s.a.w so how can they accept anything by enemies of Islam and murtads as sahih.

 

[Citizen X]

It means they (Shia) do not believe in following verse:

(Qur'an 15:9) إِنَّا نَحْنُ نَزَّلْنَا الذِّكْرَ وَإِنَّا لَهُ لَحَافِظُونَ
We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).
بےشک یہ (کتاب) نصیحت ہمیں نے اُتاری ہے اور ہم ہی اس کے نگہبان ہیں​

Can you provide any reference?

This is a serious matter , because anybody who does not believe in Qur'an is "KAFIR".

Why are you asking me? I'm not a Shia, also don't believe in anything they say in public, because Taqiyah ( i.e lying ) is part of the belief system.

 

[Pakistani1947]

Why are you asking me? I'm not a Shia

If possible, could you please provide any reference to what you wrote earlier:

"Majority of them believe in Tahreef, that the Quran was not preserved in its original form because the Sahaba according to them were enemies of Rasool Allah s.a.w so they destroyed many pages, ayats and took out all passages referring to Syedna Ali r.a "

 

[Citizen X]

It means they (Shia) do not believe in following verse:

(Qur'an 15:9) إِنَّا نَحْنُ نَزَّلْنَا الذِّكْرَ وَإِنَّا لَهُ لَحَافِظُونَ
We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).
بےشک یہ (کتاب) نصیحت ہمیں نے اُتاری ہے اور ہم ہی اس کے نگہبان ہیں​

Can you provide any reference?

This is a serious matter , because anybody who does not believe in Qur'an is "KAFIR".

And going against the Quran really isn't a big thing nowadays

 

[Wadaich]

Sorry, have you read any of the 4 shia hadith books? They are chock full of fabricated hadith and who told you they believe in the Sahih Sitta? They believe all except 4 became murtad at the time of the Prophet's s.a.w so how can they accept anything by enemies of Islam and murtads as sahih.

Both have reservations about each other. So let it be.

If possible, could you please provide any reference to what you wrote earlier:

"Majority of them believe in Tahreef, that the Quran was not preserved in its original form because the Sahaba according to them were enemies of Rasool Allah s.a.w so they destroyed many pages, ayats and took out all passages referring to Syedna Ali r.a "

Which Qura'n Shia believe today? Have U found and difference?

 

[Citizen X]

Both have reservations about each other. So let it be.

Surprising you don't have the same attitude towards Mirazais who have invented one extra prophet, where they have invented 12 extra ones only they don't officially call them prophets but the are given god like powers, see the video posted above.

Why the hypocrisy?

 

[Pakistani1947]

And going against the Quran really isn't a big thing nowadays

Thanks for the video. It means that it does not make any sense to discuss any religious matter with Shias until they confirm that they do not agree with what is mentioned in above video. But the problem still exists; even though they deny their association / acceptance with above video, they may easily be get away just by doing "Taqayyah" (تقیّہ). Now I lost any trust in them.

May Allah give these deviated groups Hidayat (AAmeen)

 

[Pakistani1947]

Which Qura'n Shia believe today? Have U found and difference?

Can you please re-phrase your question?

 

[socrates khan]

Majority of them believe in Tahreef, that the Quran was not preserved in its original form because the Sahaba according to them were enemies of Rasool Allah s.a.w so they destroyed many pages, ayats and took out all passages referring to Syedna Ali r.a

سیٹیزن رچی صاحبہ! یہ جو آپ ہلکے ہلکے سے تفرقہ بازی کی آگ میں چونچیں مار کر اپنے سُخنِ نازک کو جھلسا رہی ہیں۔۔۔یہ کوئی اچھی کاوش نہیں۔۔۔۔ ابھی ہمارے "بھائی لوگ" آگئے تو آپ نے مولبی چیتا صاحب کی پیٹھ پر بیٹھ کر دگڑم دگڑم ہو جانا ہے۔۔۔۔

 

[socrates khan]

پوزیشن کیا واضح کرنی اتنی دیر بعد آپ سے بات ہوئی جس کی بہت خوشی ہے اور ،
@socrates khan
سے شائد یہ برداشت نہیں ہوا کے یہاں ،اچھے اچھے بھائیوں کی کوئی کمی نہیں ?

حاجی صاحب!آجکل کے ناپائیدار دور میں پرانے دوست اور پرانے چاول بھی نصیب سے ہی ملتے ہیں۔۔۔۔اور پرانا وڑائچ تو نرگس کے ہزاروں سال تک اپنی بے نوری کا سیاپا ڈالنے پر ہی ہاتھ آتا ہے۔۔۔۔ابھی قسمت ساتھ دے رہی ہے تو آپس میں پپیاں جپھیاں ڈال کر سیلفیاں بنا لیں۔۔کل کا کیا پتہ۔۔۔ کل ہو نہ ہو(شاہ رخ، کاجل)۔۔۔

 

[swing]

حاجی صاحب!آجکل کے ناپائیدار دور میں پرانے دوست اور پرانے چاول بھی نصیب سے ہی ملتے ہیں۔۔۔۔اور پرانا وڑائچ تو نرگس کے ہزاروں سال تک اپنی بے نوری کا سیاپا ڈالنے پر ہی ہاتھ آتا ہے۔۔۔۔ابھی قسمت ساتھ دے رہی ہے تو آپس میں پپیاں جپھیاں ڈال کر سیلفیاں بنا لیں۔۔کل کا کیا پتہ۔۔۔ کل ہو نہ ہو(شاہ رخ، کاجل)۔۔۔

ایک اچھی پوسٹ تھی ،،اخیر پر آپ نے اپنے ہموطنوں کے نام لکھ کر سارا موڈ خراب کر دیا آیندہ سے پلیز خیال رکھا جائے اپنے چھوٹے بھائی کا ،شکریہ
?

 

[Wadaich]

Surprising you don't have the same attitude towards Mirazais who have invented one extra prophet, where they have invented 12 extra ones only they don't officially call them prophets but the are given god like powers, see the video posted above.

Why the hypocrisy?

No comparison between a Muslim and Certified Non-Muslims.

All Shia Imams are deeply respected by Ahl-e-Sunnat. Most of them are teachers of know Ahl-e-Sunnat scholars of their times. If someone pins wrong Aqeeda to them he/she will be answerable. As a case in point see Maula Ali's (R.A/A.S) response/treatment to the ones who believed on him as a God in his life time.

 

[Wadaich]

Can you please re-phrase your question?

Is there any difference between the Quran in my home & the Quran found in any Shia brother's home?

 

[Citizen X]

سیٹیزن رچی صاحبہ! یہ جو آپ ہلکے ہلکے سے تفرقہ بازی کی آگ میں چونچیں مار کر اپنے سُخنِ نازک کو جھلسا رہی ہیں۔۔۔یہ کوئی اچھی کاوش نہیں۔۔۔۔ ابھی ہمارے "بھائی لوگ" آگئے تو آپ نے مولبی چیتا صاحب کی پیٹھ پر بیٹھ کر دگڑم دگڑم ہو جانا ہے۔۔۔۔

I'm just stating facts, if you can, refute them with a logical arguments, please do. Just trying to shut down the argument by labeling it xyz is an easy way out not to discuss some painful truths.

 

[Pakistani1947]

No comparison between a Muslim and Certified Non-Muslims.

All Shia Imams are deeply respected by Ahl-e-Sunnat. Most of them are teachers of know Ahl-e-Sunnat scholars of their times. If someone pins wrong Aqeeda to them he/she will be answerable. As a case in point see Maula Ali's (R.A/A.S) response/treatment to the ones who believed on him as a God in his life time.

Thanks for reminding about that incident which proved that Even Hazart Ali (RA) was not infallible (غلطیوں سے پاک) contrary to what Shia claims:

Narrated 'Ikrima: Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'" (Book #84, Hadith #57)