Most Pakistani doctors in US accept evolutionary theory: Survey

Unicorn

Banned
firstly pakistani doctors are hardly successful as compared to indian and bangladeshi !!They are not superior in numbers or skills!!

Lol....i too was surprised once i was talking with a sensible pakistani who questioned about darwins theory !!

I only smiled at him and realized that these people can never beat us in science !!

No doubt, hinduism is the only scientific religion,which has catered to origin of mathematics,medicine science,economy,political science,aeronautical and many others fields !!
most of german scientists were inspired from vedas!!

Bro-Do you really believe Hanumaan flew from Sri Lanka over 2000 Kilometers to Himalayas and than got confused about which plant to carry back so he carried the entire mountain back to Sri Lanka- I missed the whole scientific argument behind it and what type of math was applied to it I would love to learn it.
 
Last edited:

Raaz

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Religion is belief (no proof), everyone believes in their own religion from the bottom of their heart. Religious theories can't fight with science, because it will loose.Religions can't provide satisfactory answers to todays person, In west most people are educated, believe in science, fact and logic hence religion is week. Religion is bound to get weeker with time. Those societies that change with time and those religions which drop outdated pratice usually prosper and last longer. Even though many people today know that many things in one's religion doesn't make sence they still follow it. It looks like most of us need something to believe in......

Go to the religion which makes sense. I am sure you are not monkey that you believe stupid thing without logical proof.

and there is difference in logical and scientific proof. Thats why Darwin ideas are just a theory still.


Belief is the basic difference among animals and humans. and the west is trying to find the truth and prove it on the bases of science.

It is a more logical matter than a scientific matter.
 
Last edited:

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Religion is belief (no proof), everyone believes in their own religion from the bottom of their heart. Religious theories can't fight with science, because it will loose.Religions can't provide satisfactory answers to todays person, In west most people are educated, believe in science, fact and logic hence religion is week. Religion is bound to get weeker with time. Those societies that change with time and those religions which drop outdated pratice usually prosper and last longer. Even though many people today know that many things in one's religion doesn't make sence they still follow it. It looks like most of us need something to believe in......

Dear ZH, religion is dogma and make belief plus ritualism I agree with you but there is no doubt as to divine origin of divine statements in all divine scriptures. The divine revelations were turned into the state we find them today becaue of the ruling clases that did not wasnt to work for divine rule of laws. They simply wanted to rule as masters of masses and to do that they did whatever they needed to do to pave their way. Any person who has studied both allegedly divine scriptures and scientific discoveries as well as his of mankind will see this very clearly indeed.

Look at stupidity of masses even today on one hand and look at what people of the past built thousands of years ago. One cannot remain unimpressed that knowledge was there always and people were experts in what they did. It all clearly shows two hands at play against each other. Divine hand that helped mankind develop and progress and human hand that oppressed and suppressed human development.

It has been human nature to discredit each other without any real evidence but the real evidence points us in the right direction that God has been at work always by natural means. I have no doubt in my mind that human civilization was great each time God sent his messenger who organized people and led them to wisdom. It were some monsters amongst people who simply could not live with that so they kept bringing down those great civilizations.

To me the Quran is part of those scriptures that were sent before it, it proves authenticity of all of them. People are people, so satanic people=those who opposed moral rule of law were also there and they were very active indeed so they schemed and plotted against God and humanity and have been taking their toll on humanity. Even today you will see muslims stopping muslims from reading vedas, puranas, upnishads, maha bharata,ramayana etc. Likewise hindus are stopping hindus from reading the quran. The case is very same with parsees, jews, christians etc. Not only that but also they all try and stop their people from study of science because they are not concerned about finding out the truth for themselves but holding on to their make beliefs which backfires ie their schemes and plots fail every now and again. All this because mankind cannot defeat divine purpose no matter what.

Even on this very forum you can see how we muslims tear each other apart and if you go and see on other forums of any people ie hiindus, parsees, jews, christians etc, all are fighting each other over things and so knowledge is finding its way through seems and cracks gradually. It gives me hope that we are moving in the right direction although very slowly due to scheming and plotting of evil minded people with bad attitudes.

My major discovery is the wrong translations of scriptures and their wrong interpretations and lack of scientific approach to divine scriptures or whatever is left of them. Once people become less superstitious and look at things in reality of real world they will find their way to the ultimate truth. So long as they remain committed to their make beliefs they will remain in their self created prisons of confusions. It is because people need to look for truth for themselves and not try to fight each other over defending bad dogmas and rituals. It is common struggle but we do not realize it. The sooner we realise it the better it will be for all of us. Truth cannot be truly denied or rejected but remaining in confusion does not help, so it is better if we help each other find things out than be afraid of doing doing so. Only truth will st us free if we let it.

regards and all the best.
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Hud Hud Prendah Tha ya Insan :lol::lol:

Perveziism and Darwinism is same...

Both were Mulla. They could prove any thing.

(Now dont post 100 youtubes and 500 yard paragraph)

I do not need to prove what is self evident, dear Raaz, it is people like you who need to disprove what I say or prove what you claim, whic is just a make belief without any evidence.

regards and all the best.
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Bro-Do you really believe Hanumaan flew from Sri Lanka over 2000 Kilometers to Himalayas and than got confused about which plant to carry back so he carried the entire mountain back to Sri Lanka- I missed the whole scientific argument behind it and what type of math was applied to it I would love to learn it.

Dear Unicorn, your concern is appreciated but may be there is some other sensible explanation about it that you are not aware of it like myself. It is also possible that translations and interpretations of scriptures are deliberately taken in wrong directions to put scriptures out of the way of those who rule people according to their own will rather than the divine rule of law.

It will take time but people are busy translating scriptures in light of new knowledge so hopefully someone will understand the actual texts and render them sensibly perhaps in not too distant future. You know it as well as I that people translate scriptures as per prevalent make beliefs of the scriptural community. Even if muslim translates vedas he is forced to translate them according to what hindus believe rather than on basis of natural realities and wisdom.

regards and all the best.
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Go to the religion which makes sense. I am sure you are not monkey that you believe stupid thing without logical proof.

and there is difference in logical and scientific proof. Thats why Darwin ideas are just a theory still.


Belief is the basic difference among animals and humans. and the west is trying to find the truth and prove it on the bases of science.

It is a more logical matter than a scientific matter.

Can you see flaw of your own logic dear Raaz? It is very easy to advise others. DIYE THALE HANERA. Was HUDHUD a man or a bird?

regards and all the best.
 

hawk eyed

MPA (400+ posts)
this crappy evolution theory is in total contradiction with our beliefs......... a sound minded muslim could never believe it...

not just a Muslim a sound minded normal human being cant figure out how a perfectly functioning body with intricate structure and an opposite sex can appear without any CREATOR!
 

hawk eyed

MPA (400+ posts)
Dear Unicorn, evolution is a scientific theory based upon scientific principle of falsification and prediction. So far no evidence has come about to falsify this theory and a lot more fossils have been found that were predicted to be found which lend more and more support to the credibility of the theory. Even if missing links remain missing it still does not mean the theory is incorrect or is a failure.

Since so much evidence has been gathered and it is unlikely that anything will be found that will falsify this theory therefore it is taken as a fact.

regards and all the best.

i being a biology student would never tend to falsify TOE but the problem for me lies in calling our ancestors apes...
ALLAH ALMIGHTY has elevated humans from the first day n i believe v are the same old children of ADAM A.S with our reduced sizes
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
not just a Muslim a sound minded normal human being cant figure out how a perfectly functioning body with intricate structure and an opposite sex can appear without any CREATOR!

The real problem dear he, is not with natural world and how it works but with first cause. The rest is work of natural processes that give rise to all phenomena that we see. So it is Allah who planned all and set it into motion like a seed grows into a tree.

regards and all the best.
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
i being a biology student would never tend to falsify TOE but the problem for me lies in calling our ancestors apes...
ALLAH ALMIGHTY has elevated humans from the first day n i believe v are the same old children of ADAM A.S with our reduced sizes

Adam did not become adam till he was. Even if apes evolved into humans, man only became man when he became a human. The earth was part of a huge star before it exploded and came together in form of our solar system. We do not call the earth a star. Our origin is from dust but we do not call ourselves dust. Our origin is from water but we do not call ourselves water. Our origin is from sperm and we do not call ourselves sperms and so the story goes, so why would we call ourselves apes when apes are apes and people are people? Our distance ancestors were kufaar, we do not claim to be kufaar after we turned muslims. So evolution along the way does not make us apes and monkeys. Moreover people ar called worse than all animals due to their deeds so we are still not humans if we behave worst than all the creatures. Parents cannot be linked wrong ways to their children and children cannot be linked the wrong way to their parents. We are what we are.

regards and all the best.
 

patriot

Minister (2k+ posts)
Dear bro. [MENTION=13412]Mughal1[/MENTION] your thoughts are as light in darkness of this religious forum.
Most of us on this forum don't like taliban or thier version of islam but unfortunately the mindset is the same.
Without any reasoning,logic and proof we declare others who do not agree to our understanding of a scripture as kaafir or non-muslim.
And we think by doing this we are earning rewards,SAWAB.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Keep up the noble task of enlightenment.
The God bless you.
 

Raaz

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Dear bro. [MENTION=13412]Mughal1[/MENTION] your thoughts are as light in darkness of this religious forum.
Most of us on this forum don't like taliban or thier version of islam but unfortunately the mindset is the same.
Without any reasoning,logic and proof we declare others who do not agree to our understanding of a scripture as kaafir or non-muslim.
And we think by doing this we are earning rewards,SAWAB.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Keep up the noble task of enlightenment.
The God bless you.
So you are also Pervezi or Qadyani. Keep it up...

The crow not be white. by saying it white.
 

Raaz

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Can you see flaw of your own logic dear Raaz? It is very easy to advise others. DIYE THALE HANERA. Was HUDHUD a man or a bird?

regards and all the best.
A crazy ( Pagal) man thinks every other person except him is Pagal.

Hud was Hud and man is man.

Although they could communicate each other.

Have you not seen the talking birds ?
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Dear bro. @Mughal1 your thoughts are as light in darkness of this religious forum.
Most of us on this forum don't like taliban or thier version of islam but unfortunately the mindset is the same.
Without any reasoning,logic and proof we declare others who do not agree to our understanding of a scripture as kaafir or non-muslim.
And we think by doing this we are earning rewards,SAWAB.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Keep up the noble task of enlightenment.
The God bless you.

Thank you very much dear patriot for being kind in your remarks. I hope our people learn and think by questioning things before accepting them. The conditioning of our people for centuries not to question things and to accept them blindly is not going to go away over night but if people who realize our common problem gradually tried to explain things may be people will come round as the ideas are understood more and more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3MbD6xGiGQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGgLSGnbhCk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKVjuBLvV48


regards and all the best.
 
Last edited:

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
A crazy ( Pagal) man thinks every other person except him is Pagal.

Hud was Hud and man is man.

Although they could communicate each other.

Have you not seen the talking birds ?

Dear Raaz, if you study islam and muslims through out history, you will see that islam and muslims were questioned and answers were found. For example, there is very little that we know about the prophet regarding his makkan life because people were busy with other more important aspects of islam eg revelation of the quran and its propagation to begin the movement. Later people realised that they need to preserve information about prophet himself therefore they started collecting information but it was not as complete as they would have liked it to be. 13 years was a long time to remember each and every thing about the prophet. Mission totally depended upon the quran rather than the hadith. However, when muslims thought that some information about the prophet would also be good to have they started collecting ahadith. No special attention was paid to legal authenticity aspect of the hadith. This only became an issue when false reports begin to surface and people began to question things they were told about the prophet because they did not make sense to them. This is how chains of narrations became integral parts of reports. Then it was thought that even that was not enough so information about narrators was collected and scrutinized. By the time all this was done centuries passed so none could be 100% sure whatever was told as hadith was actually true or not. Therefore rules were devised by yet later people to separate at least those reports that did not meet the newly set criterion.

The other thing that happened along was formation of schools of fiqh because muslim state and its provinces needed laws to run the country. Thus need of doing things led to formation of things and we called them secondary sources of islam. These sources in no way are equal to the quran nor are as reliable hence need to be kept with the quran as subordinate sources.

What muslim kings and mullas did was gave these subordinate sources bigger or at least equal authority to the quran so that they could undermine the position of the quran. The reason they wanted to undermine the authority of the quran was to put make beliefs through as islam by inventing ahadith. This they could not do to the quran because that text was already finalized and preserved in life time of the prophet. Over a time even hadith text became finalised as well so no more inventions were possible even in the name of ahadith either.

This door was kept open by way of fiqh and fatwas to get what rulers and mullas wanted. This is how they managed to push out the proper quranic understanding and got ummah in to a mess. This is how deen was turned into mazhab and muslims in to mazhab parast people. The other thing people in power did was they dictated or enacted laws to keep that state of existence so that if anyone said anything against that he was in trouble. Thus people were slowly gagged from speaking out openly against what was going on. Thus what we have today as aqeedahs became permanently instilled in minds of muslims and real knowledge was suppressed.

Since the quran is intact and muslims who rise above these thing se the quran for what it is, they bring back the ideas of the quran but they are labelled heretics.

People like sir seyyed ahmed khan did not say anything really new by telling people not to go against natural world order. Because in the hadith scrutiny books it is written very clearly as a rule that not to accept any report as an hadith that is against the laws of nature. All sir seyyed did was to put two and two together and explain that supernatural events are impossible. It is because if natural world order is anything to go by then supernatural events cannot be accepted because that will be accepting the natural world order does not exist.

Likewise sir iqbal, simply realised that islam was not a religion but a rule of law that needed implementation to be benefited from. Iqbal understood sir seyyed's point and he knew he was right but he added another dimension and then parwez expanded on those ideas and that is all he did ie he explained islam in detail as a divine rule of law rather than a religious dogma and ritualism that benefiited none and could benefit none.

If we look at mawdoddi sb and other scholars eg dr israr and ghamdi etc they all realised that islam was a ruling system not just namaaz roza. However it was not easy to face public with those ideas in detail because masses lacked education and knew nothing about running state affairs. By disturbing masses one was looking for trouble and that is obvious how we are fighting against anyone who tries to tell us anything we hold as our strict belief.

Today things are a bit different because we have a lot more interaction between different people so at least we can talk about things regardless we like them or not.

My understanding of the quranic text therefore goes much beyond that of miracles and deen and mazhab. In my understanding the quran gives us rules of laws not just for one situation but a few eg a)when there is no islamic state, b)when there is, c)when people live in a nonmuslim state with which we have no treaty, d)with which we have a treaty, e)when we are persecuted, f)when we are not persecuted etc etc.

For example, if we have an islamic state and that it is well established then laws of inheritance become useless because they serve no purpose as private property is not allowed in that case beyond a set limit. Hoarding and profiteering etc no longer can be a problem because state admin runs the state by keeping land and resources under its own control and it ought to keep these things open for all citizens of the state to benefit from. Everyone is supposed to be working together for the good of all others according to mutually agreed plan.

Marriage and divorce become contractual agreements under state law, food and drink or clothing become privat affair unless they relate to state affairs in any aspect that make them public or state business.

Surah AL-NISAA- does not mean women but communities. In this suarah we are told our rights and responsibilities regarding each other in the name of Allah. We are supposed to deliver goods=rights to each and every member of our community. 4/2-3 are not about orphans but individuals in the community and their rights. They are not about marrying women but about organizing our communities and appointing able individuals from amongst us to serve our communities when there is no islamic state. The idea is to bring about one for ourselves by working together. The quran gives us blue print for working towards an islamic state in surah al nisa.

One can see how dangerous this was for muslim kings and rulers that is why they mistranslated the quran and misinterpreted it because had they not twisted minds they could no way rule muslims. It is because the quran forbids muslims to live like a dead meat.

The verses which are translated as forbidding us foods are actually not at all about food but certain states of existence that are forbidden for us as a people appointed some tasks by Allah ie it is forbidden for you to live like a dead people, or to live by sucking blood of other people, or to live like pigs ie on dirt and sweat of others. Raising flag of other than Allah in the land ie living by rule of law of other than that of Allah eg see 2/173 in this context and see what you get.

Muslims kings if we look at history lived of other people. Muslim businessmen looted their own people, blood of poor muslims is sucked out by powerful muslims with their conscious clear that they are not doing anything wrong. This was the purpose rich and powerful wanted to achieve by misinterpreting the quranic verses that stopped them from doing these things. This is why they spent so much money on building masaajid and put in there their chosen mullas to brain wash masses and create new generations of mullas fully brain washed.

So mistranslations and misinterpretations of the quran are not limited only to things like hudhud bird or human. It will take time before real message of the quran is fully rediscovered and realised. So long as people are kept from thinking ruling elite amongst muslims is safe and muslim masses are also safe in hands of their loved mullas.

To me the quran is not a book of myths but of realities to bring changes to the world for the good of mankind. I am only doing what I think is right just as you are doing what you think is right. Allah is the only judge we both will have to trust. May he guide us all to the path that is firmly founded.

regards and all the best.
 
Last edited:

Raaz

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Bhai [MENTION=13412]Mughal1[/MENTION]

actually Hud Hud 1

Could you tell any thing that Iqbal said these any stupid ideas like Mr. Parvez is uttering.

And I do not have time to read your so long posts , Sorry I did not read your post, please write briefly. It is more manner-ful.

Actually I am thinking any person , who change the meanings of Quran , as a muslim. It is against the definition of Muslim.

The problem in Qadyanies is not that they made the new prophet for themselves , but they change the meanings of Quran.

Meanings does not mean the translation. It means , sense.

It is bigger crime than to be a non muslim because of his lack of knowledge about Islam.

You did intentionally.
 
Last edited:

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Dear Raaz, complete ideas do not come in abundance to anyone person rather a person may have one idea or even a part and another may complete it. Ideas gather over time. It is particularly true in case of our muslim community because masses just do not bother with thinking as we all can see. Only thinking people have any ideas if at all. Even if anyone tells us anything we usually show little interest in learning it to see whether it works or it does not. We just accept or reject ideas on basis of our make beliefs. This is why there is little chance of progress unless we change our this attitude towards knowledge and learning.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/26460802/Pakistan-as-Visualized-by-Iqbal-and-Jinnah

The main problem as regard evidence is that unless one has a complete idea one cannot share it because others have ready made works that they throw at you in response. They do not realise the fact that the new idea is new that is why none has written anything about it before.

People talk about jinns but most of the available material is spooky and mythical, there is hardly any critical study on this matter that really explains the concept and its root in reality. So mythical things are taken as real and those who do not accept them either jump the ship or are thrown out of the ship. This situation has to change or there is no end to our problems.

regards and all the best.
 
Last edited:

crankthskunk

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Even though it is still a theory with a few unanswered questions. Based on the arguments its likely to be true in comparison with other theories. Hats of to Pakistani doctors in US.

Hehehe, so you say, it is a THEORY with a few unanswered questions.

Then you say it is more likely to be true.

In a nutshell, your judgement is it is a theory not fact, has unanswered question, but still more likely to be true. And this theory is based on what actually? Survival of the fittest?
 

Raaz

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
@Hud Hud 1

You did not reply that Iqbal was Pervezi too ?

Did he also said any where about Ants and Hud Hud . Angels and Shetan are fake ?

Rather he tells us to behave like Hawk. and Iblees ki Majlis Shora. and lot more.

Allah has cursed upon them , who changes the sense of its books , in original or in meanings.