Maulana Tariq Jameel Threads - Collection

[trestelle]

Re: Maulana Tariq Jameel Bayan Thread

Hazrat Hussain (RA) Or Hassan (RA) Jannat K Nojawanon K Sardar by Maulana Tariq Jameel

 

[Cheeko]

Man kuntu Maula fa Ali Maula

We as Ahlus sunnah accept the hadith: Man Kunto Mawlahu fa `Aliyyun mawlahu i.e. For whosoever I am Mawla then Ali is his Mawla [Sunnan Tirimdhi, Hadith # 3713, where Imam Tirimdhi called it "Hasan Sahih" and Albani proved it to be Sahih too]

Let's see the authenticity of this beautiful hadith in words of Nasir ud-din Albani:

Translation: (The Prophet - Peace be upon him said): For whosoever I am Mawla then Ali is his Mawla, O Allah befriend those who befriend Ali and be enemy of those who are enemy to Ali (Albani Says): This hadith has come from Zayd ibn Arqam, Sad bin Abi Waqqas, Buraida bin Husayb, Ali bin Abi Talib, Abu Ayyub al Ansari, Bara bin Azib, Abdullah Ibn Abbas, Anas bin Malik, Abu Saeed and Abu Hurraira (Ridhwan Allahu Ajmain), The Hadith of Zayd bin Arqam comes with 5 (different) ways!... [Albani in: Silsilat ul ahadith as-Sahiha, Volume No. 4, Page No. 330, Hadith Number 1750]

Albani then says:

Translation: For whosoever I am Mawla then Ali is his Mawla, O Allah befriend those who befriend Ali and be enemy of those who are enemy to Ali....It is narrated by Ahmed (4/370), Ibn Hibban in his "SAHIH" (2205) Ibn Abi Asim (1367, 1368), Tabarani (4968) (Albani) said: The Isnad is "SAHIH ON THE CRITERIA OF BUKHARI" Haythami said in Majma (9/104): This is narrated by Ahmed and (all) its narrators are those of "SAHIH" except for Fatr bin Khalifa who is "THIQA (reliable)".... (also) For Whosoever I am Mawla, Ali is Mawla, This is narrated by Tirimdhi (2/298) "WHERE HE DECLARED IT HASSAN SAHIH" (Albani) said (on next page): The Isnaad is "Sahih on the criteria of Shaykhayn (i.e. Bukhari and Muslim)" - [Albani in Silsilat ul Ahadith as-Sahiha, Volume No.4, Page No. 331-332]

 

[Pakistani1947]

Re: Man kuntu Maula fa Ali Maula

We as Ahlus sunnah accept the hadith: Man Kunto Mawlahu fa `Aliyyun mawlahu i.e. For whosoever I am Mawla then Ali is his Mawla [Sunnan Tirimdhi, Hadith # 3713, where Imam Tirimdhi called it "Hasan Sahih" and Albani proved it to be Sahih too]

This is a deceptive and false interpretation given to this narration. Though the narration is authentic but this is interpreted in deceptive manner by shiatu dajjal.

The Definition of the Word “Mawla”:

The Shia claim that the word “Mawla” here means “master.” It is based on this erroneous translation of the word that they claim that the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) nominated Ali (رضّى الله عنه) as his successor. In fact, the word “Mawla”–like many other Arabic words–has multiple possible translations. The Shia lay-person may be shocked to know that indeed the most common definition of the word “mawla” is actually “servant” and not “master.”
Importantly we should always remember that most of narrations have a context related to them, and they could only be understood in correct perspective if we understood the context in which those words were spoken, then we can correctly understand the meaning of that Hadees. The word used in the narration is Mawla to which the dajjalis translated as master in order to support their motives, but the word mawla have got different meanings, the word (mawla) in the Arabic language could only mean:
rabb = Lord
malik = owner
mun`im = benefactor
mu’tiq = liberator
naser = helper
muheb = lover
haleef = ally
aabd = slave
sihr = brother-in-law
ibn al `am = cousin

Al-Jazari said in al-Nihaayah: “The word Mawla is frequently mentioned in the Hadith, and this is a name that is applied to many. It may refer to a lord, to an owner, to a master, to a benefactor, to one who frees a slave, to a supporter, to one who loves another, to a follower, to a neighbor, to a cousin (son of paternal uncle), to an ally, to an in-law, to a slave, to a freed slave, to one to whom one has done a favor. Most of these meanings are referred to in various Hadith, so it is to be understood in the manner implied by the context of the Hadith in which it is mentioned.”
Imam Shafi’i said with regards to Mawla in this particular Hadith of Ghadir Khumm:
“What is meant by that is the bonds (of friendship, brotherhood, and love) of Islam.”

Al-Teebi said: it is incorrect to interpret the mawla as referring to the imam who conducts the affairs of the believers, because the only person who was in charge of the Muslims’ affairs during the lifetime of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was the Prophet himself and no one else, so the word mawla must be interpreted as referring to love, the bonds of Islam and so on.” [Adapted from Tuhfat al-Ahwadhi Sharh al-Tirmidhi, Hadeeth 3713.]
Allah says in the Quran: “So today no ransom shall be accepted from you nor from those who disbelieved; your abode is the fire; it is your Mawla(beloved friend) and an evil refuge it is.” (Quran, 57:15)

Even the Shia translator(sarwar) didn’t translate this to mean “Imam” or “Caliph”, as that would make the verse meaningless. The Hell-fire above is referred to as Mawla to the disbelievers because of their extreme closeness to it, and it is this definition of Mawla that is being referred to in the Hadith of Ghadir Khumm (i.e. closeness to the Prophet, Ali, and the believers). Indeed, the word “Mawla” comes from “Wilayah” and not “Walayah”. Wilayah refers to love and Nusrah (help and aid), and is not to be confused with Walayah, which refers to the leadership.

The hadeeth of ghadeer has no evidences for the imamah (leadership) or Caliphate because if the prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) wanted to mean khilafah or imamah, he wouldn’t have used a word that can have all these meanings. He would have said something like: Ali is your khalifa (or imam) after me, or when I die, listen and obey to Ali ibn Abi Talib (رضّى الله عنه). But the prophet didn’t use any of these clear words.
Let us give you some examples for a better understanding:

Example 1:
وقال لزيد: أنت أخونا ومولانا
Prophet: said to zaid, “You are our brother and our Mawla.” [Sahih Bukhari, 3:863]
Now if we apply the shia interpretations which they give to word Mawla, then zaid (رضّى الله عنه) was also declared Khalifa of Prophet just because prophet termed him Mawla. But before the dajjalis who possess the characteristics of donkeys claim that this is another contradiction in Sunni reports due of their lack of understanding skills as we have seen before, We would like to clear that the word Mawla was not used to denote Master or Caliph rather it was used to denote freed slave, Similarly even in hadeeth of Ghadeer the word Mawla was used to denote friend not master.

Example 2:
Sahi muslim Bk 31, Number 6121: Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Quraish, Ansar, Muzaina, Juhaina and Ghifar, they are my friends[mawalli] and there is no friend of theirs besides Allah and His Messenger.

Mawaalii is the plural word for Mawla, Now if we apply the dajjali interpretations then it will mean that the tribes mentioned in the above narration were declared as Masters or Khaliphs, but it would be stupidity to claim since the word Mawalii used in here was for denoting friends and Protectors. So as we have said earlier just addressing someone with the word Mawla doesn’t means that a person was declared as Khaliph, word Mawla has got different meaning and is to be understood depending upon the context.

Interestingly if we are to examine the narration of Ghadeer from an unbiased and logical manner, to find out that in which context was that statement made by Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) we will find that it had no relation to any sort of Caliphate as the dajjali claim, but it was just regarding friendship. This fact is been proved brilliantly by our brothers where they analyzed the context of shia and sunni sources for this incident. Inshort these words were said by Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) when he came to know that some people from the army of Ali (رضّى الله عنه) who were under his command started developing grudge against him, thinking that Ali (رضّى الله عنه) did injustice with them, So in that situation Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) said those words, inorder to remove that grudge from the hearts of those people. This correct interpretation remains irrefutable for the shiatu dajjal, So Please refer this article where you will find a detailed explanation from the historical point of view.[Hadith of Ghadir Khumm]

Moreover even Ali (رضّى الله عنه) himself rejected the ghadeer misconception:Here is the hadith in which some companions from the Ansars called Ali (رضّى الله عنه) their Mawla (Close Ally, loved Friend, Supporter..) and He doesn’t understand what they’re talking about:

عن رياح بن الحارث قال : ( جاء رهط إلى على بالرحبة فقالوا السلام عليك يا مولانا قال كيف أكون مولاكم وأنتم قوم عرب قالوا سمعنا رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يوم غدير خم يقول من كنت مولاه فان هذا مولاه قال رياح فلما مضوا تبعتهم فسألت من هؤلاء قالوا نفر من الأنصار فيهم أبو أيوب الأنصاري ) .
رواه الإمام أحمد في المسند 5/419 قال شعيب الأرناؤوط إسناده صحيح ، وأورده في فضائل الصحابة 2/570 حديث رقم 967 .
​

Narrated Rayeh bin al harith: A Group of Ansars came to Ali (رضّى الله عنه) in al Rahbah and said: Al Salamu Aleykum Ya Mawlana, He replied: How Can I be your Mawla and you are Arabian people? They Said: We heard the Prophet of Allah PBUH say on the Day of Ghadeer Khum: Whomsoever’s Mawla I am, this (Ali) is also his Mawla. Riyah said: When they left I followed them and asked whom they were, They said some folks from the Ansars and amongst them was Abu Ayoub al Ansari.
Comment: So this is Ali Bin Abi Talib (رضّى الله عنه) Who did not understand the saying of Ansars ” Al Salamu Aekum Ya Mawlana” as ” Al Salamu Aleykum O CALIPH/MASTER”. Then when they explained to him that it was the Muwalat of Lovers, Supporters and Allies Then he agreed with them.

Example from Umar(ra) clears the reality:

عن سالم قال: قيل (للخليفة) عمر: نراك تصنع بعلي شيئاً لا تصنعه بأحد من أصحاب رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم؟ فقال: إنه مولاي.
وعن الباقر قال: جاء أعرابيان إلى (الخليفة) عمر يختصمان، فقال عمر: يا أبا الحسن، اقض بينهما. فقضى على أحدهما، فقال المقضي عليه: يا أمير المؤمنين، هذا يقضي بيننا؟ فوثب إليه عمر فأخذ بتلبيبه ولبّبه، ثم قال: ويحك ما تدري من هذا؟! هذا مولاي ومولى كل مؤمن، ومن لم يكن مولاه فليس بمؤمن
المصدر:
البحار: ص 124 ج 40
​

Narrated Salem: they said to caliph Umar: we see you treating Ali like you treat no other of the Companions of the Prophet PBUH? he said: He is my Mawla(friend).
Imam al Baqir said: Once two wondering Arabs came to the caliph Umar so that he may Judge between them, So umar said to Ali: O Abu al Hassan why don’t you Judge between them. So he made his ruling on one of the two, Then That wondering Arab said: o Ameer al mumineen(Umar) Do you let this(man) judge between us!? So Umar quickly stood up and shouted at the Man: How dare you, do you not know who this is? He is my Mawla(friend) and the Malwa of every believer and if he’s not your Malwa then you’re not a believer.[Shia Source: bihar al Anwar 40/124.]

Similar is reported in sunni books:
Imam Ibn Hajar al-Makki in his al-Sawaiq al-Muhriqah (Musassat al-Risalat, Beirut, first print, 1997; annotators: Abdul-Rahman ibn Abdullah al-Turki and Kamil Muhammad al-Khurat) 1/110 states about Umar:

الدارقطني و أخرج أيضا أنه قيل لعمر إنك تصنع بعلي شيئا لا تصنعه بأحد من أصحاب النبي فقال إنه مولاي
​

Darqutni has narrated that someone said to Umar: “Why do you treat Ali differently from the other Sahabah of the Prophet?”. He said: “Because Ali is my Mawla“.
Comment: We see here that Umar(ra) EVEN during his caliphate called Ali (رضّى الله عنه) as his mawla, in the same way as he did at the time of incident of Ghadeer. People whom Allah gave wisdom can realize that, here Umar(ra) didn’t mean to say that Ali (رضّى الله عنه) was his Caliph, if someone tries to argue then it will be stupidity, because why would Umar say so during his caliphate? Umar was actually rebuking the Arab by saying that, Ali (رضّى الله عنه) was close friend[Mawla] of Umar, that is why he treats Ali in a special manner.
Even members from Ahlebayt refuted the false interpretations of shiatudajjal:

The Rafidhi (a person who rejects the Caliphate of Abu Bakr and Umar) said to him (Al Hasan ibn Hasan), “Did not the Messenger of Allah say to Ali (رضّى الله عنه): ‘If i am Mawla of someone, Ali (رضّى الله عنه) is his Mawla?’” He (Al Hasan) replied, “By Allah, if he meant by that Amirate and rulership, he would have been more explicit to you in expressing that, just as he was explicit to you about the Salah, Zakat and Hajj to the House. He would have said to you, ‘Oh people! This is your leader after me.’ The Messenger of Allah gave the best good counsel to the people (i.e. clear in meaning). “If it is like what you say, that Ali was chosen for this after the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم), then he would be the most flawed from all the people, because he didn’t do as the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) commanded””(Source: Al-Tabaqat Al-Kubra, Volume 5) Similar is present in Ibn `Asakir (volume 4, page 166) and (awaasim min qawaasim page 115).

Thus the fact is that Hadeeth of Ghadeer in no way proves the Caliphate of Ali (رضّى الله عنه) and the occurrence of incident of Saqifah itself sufficient to establish this reality, we will be dealing with this in the next Part(5).

NOTE: There exists various and different versions for Hadeeth of Ghadeer, with some different wording , some additions, or where two different narrations were mixed by lenient narrators, etc. But we want to make our readers aware that NOT all versions can be authentic because Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) could have just stated one version at that time, he didn’t state different, different versions at the same time. That is why we find that scholars of Hadeeth Science DIDN’T AUTHENTICATE THOSE NARRATIONS(AHADEES) AS A WHOLE, we may find their verdicts as “Isnad Sahi” or “Isnad hasan” these terms means that the text of that narration could be faulty. Imam Ibn Katheer said: The fact that the isnaad is deemed to be saheeh or hasan does not necessarily mean that the same applies to the text, because it may be shaadhdh (odd) or mu’allal (faulty). [Ikhtisaar ‘Uloom al-Hadeeth (p. 43).]. Thus they gave this verdict because they believed that the text of those narratios to be faulty or odd.

Source

 

[Veila Mast]

Re: Man kuntu Maula fa Ali Maula

Here on Siasat Pk, there is specifically dedicated thread for MAULANA TARIQ JAMEEL Sahab, if Tariq Jameel could be our Maula then Maula Ali Razi Allah Tala Anho is far superior than Maulana Tariq Jameel Sahab!

What's wrong with accepting Hazrat Ali Razi Allah Anho as Maula!

 

[Cheeko]

Re: Man kuntu Maula fa Ali Maula

This is a deceptive and false interpretation given to this narration. Though the narration is authentic but this is interpreted in deceptive manner by shiatu dajjal.

Ratta baaz sectarian moulvi what do Shiaa have to do with this Sunni Hadees? Your post is highly offensive and irrelevant because I am not a Shiaa. The contents of your material are irrelevant.

 

[Veila Mast]

Re: Man kuntu Maula fa Ali Maula

Meaning of Maula could be Malik (Master)

Tafeer Ibn e Kaseer: Surah Nahal, Ayat No 76:

 

[Pakistani1947]

Re: Man kuntu Maula fa Ali Maula

Ratta baaz sectarian moulvi what do Shiaa have to do with this Sunni Hadees? Your post is highly offensive and irrelevant because I am not a Shiaa. The contents of your material are irrelevant.

I could not understand your frustration and use of in-civilized language in response to my post, unless you are a Shia but doing "Taqayya" as Sunni.

 

[Veila Mast]

Re: Man kuntu Maula fa Ali Maula

I could not understand your frustration and in-civilized language in response to my post, unless you are a Shia but doing "Taqayya" as Sunni.

Taqayya is either in Shia or in Najdis!

Mind the difference!

 

[Veila Mast]

Re: Man kuntu Maula fa Ali Maula

Here listen to Deobandi's opinion about Hayat un Nabi Sal Lallah o Wasalam!

Listen yourself!

The one who considers Rasool Allah Sal Lallah o Waslam dead as YOU is BIDDATI!

Listen who does Taqyah!

 

[Cheeko]

Re: Man kuntu Maula fa Ali Maula

I could not understand your frustration and use of in-civilized language in response to my post, unless you are a Shia but doing "Taqayya" as Sunni.

Are you a terrorist about to slaughter me that I will do taqiya? What uncivilised language are you talking about? The correct word is uncivilised instead of incivilised. You shouldn't communicate in English if you don't have appropriate command over it especially when discussing religious issues as it can convey a wrong message. You need to communicate in some language which you can speak properly. Can you write in Urdu?

 

[molson4u]

Hazarat Ali bin Abu Talib(AS)

 

[Pakistani1947]

Event Of GHADEER e KHUM...Man Kunto Maula (Jis Jis ka main moula us us ka Ali moula)

This is a deceptive and false interpretation given to this narration by so-called scholar tahir-ul-qadri. Though the narration is authentic but this is interpreted in deceptive manner by shiatu dajjal and their friends.

The Definition of the Word “Mawla”:

The Shia and their friends claim that the word “Mawla” here means “master.” It is based on this erroneous translation of the word that they claim that the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) nominated Ali (رضّى الله عنه) as his successor. In fact, the word “Mawla”–like many other Arabic words–has multiple possible translations. The Shia lay-person may be shocked to know that indeed the most common definition of the word “mawla” is actually “servant” and not “master.”
Importantly we should always remember that most of narrations have a context related to them, and they could only be understood in correct perspective if we understood the context in which those words were spoken, then we can correctly understand the meaning of that Hadees. The word used in the narration is Mawla to which the dajjalis translated as master in order to support their motives, but the word mawla have got different meanings, the word (mawla) in the Arabic language could only mean:

rabb = Lord
malik = owner
mun`im = benefactor
mu’tiq = liberator
naser = helper
muheb = lover
haleef = ally
aabd = slave
sihr = brother-in-law
ibn al `am = cousin

Al-Jazari said in al-Nihaayah: “The word Mawla is frequently mentioned in the Hadith, and this is a name that is applied to many. It may refer to a lord, to an owner, to a master, to a benefactor, to one who frees a slave, to a supporter, to one who loves another, to a follower, to a neighbor, to a cousin (son of paternal uncle), to an ally, to an in-law, to a slave, to a freed slave, to one to whom one has done a favor. Most of these meanings are referred to in various Hadith, so it is to be understood in the manner implied by the context of the Hadith in which it is mentioned.”

Imam Shafi’i said with regards to Mawla in this particular Hadith of Ghadir Khumm:
“What is meant by that is the bonds (of friendship, brotherhood, and love) of Islam.”

Al-Teebi said: it is incorrect to interpret the mawla as referring to the imam who conducts the affairs of the believers, because the only person who was in charge of the Muslims’ affairs during the lifetime of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was the Prophet himself and no one else, so the word mawla must be interpreted as referring to love, the bonds of Islam and so on.” [Adapted from Tuhfat al-Ahwadhi Sharh al-Tirmidhi, Hadeeth 3713.]
Allah says in the Quran: “So today no ransom shall be accepted from you nor from those who disbelieved; your abode is the fire; it is your Mawla(beloved friend) and an evil refuge it is.” (Quran, 57:15)

Even the Shia translator(sarwar) didn’t translate this to mean “Imam” or “Caliph”, as that would make the verse meaningless. The Hell-fire above is referred to as Mawla to the disbelievers because of their extreme closeness to it, and it is this definition of Mawla that is being referred to in the Hadith of Ghadir Khumm (i.e. closeness to the Prophet, Ali, and the believers). Indeed, the word “Mawla” comes from “Wilayah” and not “Walayah”. Wilayah refers to love and Nusrah (help and aid), and is not to be confused with Walayah, which refers to the leadership.

The hadeeth of ghadeer has no evidences for the imamah (leadership) or Caliphate because if the prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) wanted to mean khilafah or imamah, he wouldn’t have used a word that can have all these meanings. He would have said something like: Ali is your khalifa (or imam) after me, or when I die, listen and obey to Ali ibn Abi Talib (رضّى الله عنه). But the prophet didn’t use any of these clear words.
Let us give you some examples for a better understanding:

Example 1:
وقال لزيد: أنت أخونا ومولانا
Prophet: said to zaid, “You are our brother and our Mawla.” [Sahih Bukhari, 3:863]
Now if we apply the shia interpretations which they give to word Mawla, then zaid (رضّى الله عنه) was also declared Khalifa of Prophet just because prophet termed him Mawla. But before the dajjalis who possess the characteristics of donkeys claim that this is another contradiction in Sunni reports due of their lack of understanding skills as we have seen before, We would like to clear that the word Mawla was not used to denote Master or Caliph rather it was used to denote freed slave, Similarly even in hadeeth of Ghadeer the word Mawla was used to denote friend not master.

Example 2:
Sahi muslim Bk 31, Number 6121: Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Quraish, Ansar, Muzaina, Juhaina and Ghifar, they are my friends[mawalli] and there is no friend of theirs besides Allah and His Messenger.

Mawaalii is the plural word for Mawla, Now if we apply the dajjali interpretations then it will mean that the tribes mentioned in the above narration were declared as Masters or Khaliphs, but it would be stupidity to claim since the word Mawalii used in here was for denoting friends and Protectors. So as we have said earlier just addressing someone with the word Mawla doesn’t means that a person was declared as Khaliph, word Mawla has got different meaning and is to be understood depending upon the context.

Interestingly if we are to examine the narration of Ghadeer from an unbiased and logical manner, to find out that in which context was that statement made by Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) we will find that it had no relation to any sort of Caliphate as the dajjali claim, but it was just regarding friendship. This fact is been proved brilliantly by our brothers where they analyzed the context of shia and sunni sources for this incident. Inshort these words were said by Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) when he came to know that some people from the army of Ali (رضّى الله عنه) who were under his command started developing grudge against him, thinking that Ali (رضّى الله عنه) did injustice with them, So in that situation Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) said those words, inorder to remove that grudge from the hearts of those people. This correct interpretation remains irrefutable for the shiatu dajjal, So Please refer this article where you will find a detailed explanation from the historical point of view.[Hadith of Ghadir Khumm]

Moreover even Ali (رضّى الله عنه) himself rejected the ghadeer misconception:Here is the hadith in which some companions from the Ansars called Ali (رضّى الله عنه) their Mawla (Close Ally, loved Friend, Supporter..) and He doesn’t understand what they’re talking about:

عن رياح بن الحارث قال : ( جاء رهط إلى على بالرحبة فقالوا السلام عليك يا مولانا قال كيف أكون مولاكم وأنتم قوم عرب قالوا سمعنا رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يوم غدير خم يقول من كنت مولاه فان هذا مولاه قال رياح فلما مضوا تبعتهم فسألت من هؤلاء قالوا نفر من الأنصار فيهم أبو أيوب الأنصاري ) .
رواه الإمام أحمد في المسند 5/419 قال شعيب الأرناؤوط إسناده صحيح ، وأورده في فضائل الصحابة 2/570 حديث رقم 967 .
​

Narrated Rayeh bin al harith: A Group of Ansars came to Ali (رضّى الله عنه) in al Rahbah and said: Al Salamu Aleykum Ya Mawlana, He replied: How Can I be your Mawla and you are Arabian people? They Said: We heard the Prophet of Allah PBUH say on the Day of Ghadeer Khum: Whomsoever’s Mawla I am, this (Ali) is also his Mawla. Riyah said: When they left I followed them and asked whom they were, They said some folks from the Ansars and amongst them was Abu Ayoub al Ansari.
Comment: So this is Ali Bin Abi Talib (رضّى الله عنه) Who did not understand the saying of Ansars ” Al Salamu Aekum Ya Mawlana” as ” Al Salamu Aleykum O CALIPH/MASTER”. Then when they explained to him that it was the Muwalat of Lovers, Supporters and Allies Then he agreed with them.

Example from Umar(ra) clears the reality:

عن سالم قال: قيل (للخليفة) عمر: نراك تصنع بعلي شيئاً لا تصنعه بأحد من أصحاب رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم؟ فقال: إنه مولاي.
وعن الباقر قال: جاء أعرابيان إلى (الخليفة) عمر يختصمان، فقال عمر: يا أبا الحسن، اقض بينهما. فقضى على أحدهما، فقال المقضي عليه: يا أمير المؤمنين، هذا يقضي بيننا؟ فوثب إليه عمر فأخذ بتلبيبه ولبّبه، ثم قال: ويحك ما تدري من هذا؟! هذا مولاي ومولى كل مؤمن، ومن لم يكن مولاه فليس بمؤمن
المصدر:
البحار: ص 124 ج 40
​

Narrated Salem: they said to caliph Umar: we see you treating Ali like you treat no other of the Companions of the Prophet PBUH? he said: He is my Mawla(friend).
Imam al Baqir said: Once two wondering Arabs came to the caliph Umar so that he may Judge between them, So umar said to Ali: O Abu al Hassan why don’t you Judge between them. So he made his ruling on one of the two, Then That wondering Arab said: o Ameer al mumineen(Umar) Do you let this(man) judge between us!? So Umar quickly stood up and shouted at the Man: How dare you, do you not know who this is? He is my Mawla(friend) and the Malwa of every believer and if he’s not your Malwa then you’re not a believer.[Shia Source: bihar al Anwar 40/124.]

Similar is reported in sunni books:
Imam Ibn Hajar al-Makki in his al-Sawaiq al-Muhriqah (Musassat al-Risalat, Beirut, first print, 1997; annotators: Abdul-Rahman ibn Abdullah al-Turki and Kamil Muhammad al-Khurat) 1/110 states about Umar:

الدارقطني و أخرج أيضا أنه قيل لعمر إنك تصنع بعلي شيئا لا تصنعه بأحد من أصحاب النبي فقال إنه مولاي
​

Darqutni has narrated that someone said to Umar: “Why do you treat Ali differently from the other Sahabah of the Prophet?”. He said: “Because Ali is my Mawla“.
Comment: We see here that Umar(ra) EVEN during his caliphate called Ali (رضّى الله عنه) as his mawla, in the same way as he did at the time of incident of Ghadeer. People whom Allah gave wisdom can realize that, here Umar(ra) didn’t mean to say that Ali (رضّى الله عنه) was his Caliph, if someone tries to argue then it will be stupidity, because why would Umar say so during his caliphate? Umar was actually rebuking the Arab by saying that, Ali (رضّى الله عنه) was close friend[Mawla] of Umar, that is why he treats Ali in a special manner.
Even members from Ahlebayt refuted the false interpretations of shiatudajjal:

The Rafidhi (a person who rejects the Caliphate of Abu Bakr and Umar) said to him (Al Hasan ibn Hasan), “Did not the Messenger of Allah say to Ali (رضّى الله عنه): ‘If i am Mawla of someone, Ali (رضّى الله عنه) is his Mawla?’” He (Al Hasan) replied, “By Allah, if he meant by that Amirate and rulership, he would have been more explicit to you in expressing that, just as he was explicit to you about the Salah, Zakat and Hajj to the House. He would have said to you, ‘Oh people! This is your leader after me.’ The Messenger of Allah gave the best good counsel to the people (i.e. clear in meaning). “If it is like what you say, that Ali was chosen for this after the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم), then he would be the most flawed from all the people, because he didn’t do as the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) commanded””(Source: Al-Tabaqat Al-Kubra, Volume 5) Similar is present in Ibn `Asakir (volume 4, page 166) and (awaasim min qawaasim page 115).

Thus the fact is that Hadeeth of Ghadeer in no way proves the Caliphate of Ali (رضّى الله عنه) and the occurrence of incident of Saqifah itself sufficient to establish this reality, we will be dealing with this in the next Part(5).

NOTE: There exists various and different versions for Hadeeth of Ghadeer, with some different wording , some additions, or where two different narrations were mixed by lenient narrators, etc. But we want to make our readers aware that NOT all versions can be authentic because Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) could have just stated one version at that time, he didn’t state different, different versions at the same time. That is why we find that scholars of Hadeeth Science DIDN’T AUTHENTICATE THOSE NARRATIONS(AHADEES) AS A WHOLE, we may find their verdicts as “Isnad Sahi” or “Isnad hasan” these terms means that the text of that narration could be faulty. Imam Ibn Katheer said: The fact that the isnaad is deemed to be saheeh or hasan does not necessarily mean that the same applies to the text, because it may be shaadhdh (odd) or mu’allal (faulty). [Ikhtisaar ‘Uloom al-Hadeeth (p. 43).]. Thus they gave this verdict because they believed that the text of those narratios to be faulty or odd.

Source

 

[makdaone]

Re: Hazarat Ali bin Abu Talib(AS)

Tahir ul Qadri Quran Translation is against Athentic Hadith Please Dont Listen and Follow This Person.


Tahir ul Qadri Quran Translation Nazubillah totally Against Athentic hadith if you people have proof please proof me if i am wrong other wise dont Delete my post.
??? ???? ?????? ??????


??????????????? (???????????????????????) ?????? (??????????????????????????) ????????? (1) ????? (????) ???? ?? ?????? ???? (???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ????? ????? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ????) ?? (????) ??? ????? ??? ?? (????) ??? ?? ?????? (2) ??? ?? (????) ????? ?? ???? ???? ????? (3) ??? ?? ????? ??????? ??? ???? ?? ?? ????? ?? ???? ??? (4) ????????????????? (??) ?? (?????????) ???? (????) ???????? (5)????????????????????? (????????) ?? (????) ??????????????????(6) ??? ?? (???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??? ????? ????? ???? ??) ?? ?? ????? ????? ?? ??? (???? ?????? ??? ?? ?????? ?? ???)? (7) ????? (??????????????????????????????????????????) ??????????????????????????? (8) ??? (????????????????????????????????????????????) ??????????????????????????? (?????????????) ????????? (?????)? (9) ?? (??? ??? ????? ???? ? ???? ??) ??? (??) ?? ???? ???? (?????) ?? ??? ??? ?????? ?? (???) ??? ??????? (10) (??? ??) ?? ?? ??? ?? ???? ???? ???? ?? (??? ??) ?????? ?? ?????? (11) ??? ?? ?? ?? ??? ?? ?????? ?? ?? ?? ????? ?? ?????? (12) ??????????????????? (??????) ???????????? (???) ????? (??????????????????????????????)?(
13)


Original Quran Translation With Authentic Hadith Proof


??? ???? ?????? ??????


????? ?? ??? ?? ?? ?? ????? ??? (1) ?????? ???? ?? ????? ??? ?? ????? ???? ?? (2) ??? ?? ?? ???? ????? ?? ??? ???? ?? (3)?? ?? ??? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??? ?? (4) ??? ?????? (???????) ?? ??? ?????? ?? (5) ?? ??? ??? ??? ?? ?? ?? ???? ??? (???? ???? ???) (6) ??? ?? (????? ??) ????? ????? ?? ??? (7) ??? ????? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???? ??? (8) ??? ????? ?? ???? ?? ????? ??? ?? ?? ?? ??? ?? (9) ??? ?? ?? ???? ?????? ?? ?? ??? ???? ??? ?? ??? ???? ??? ?? ?? (10) ???? ???? ??? ??? ?? ????? ??? (11)??? ?? ??? ?? ?? ????? ?? ?? ??? ?????? ?? (12) ??? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??? ????? ?? (13)


SuraNajam53:1-13
SahihBukhari


NarratedMasruq: I said to 'Aisha, "O Mother! Did Prophet Muhammad see his Lord?" Aisha said, "What you have said makes my hair stand on end ! Know that if somebody tells you one of the following three things, he is a liar: Whoever tells you that Muhammad saw his Lord, is a liar." Then Aisha recited the Verse: 'No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision. He is the Most Courteous Well-Acquainted with all things.' (6.103) 'It is not fitting for a human being that Allah should speak to him except by inspiration or from behind a veil.' (42.51) 'Aisha further said, "And whoever tells you that the Prophet knows what is going to happen tomorrow, is a liar." She then recited: 'No soul can know what it will earn tomorrow.' (31.34) She added: "And whoever tell you that he concealed (some of Allah's orders), is a liar." Then she recited: 'O Apostle! Proclaim (the Message) which has been sent down to you from your Lord..' (5.67) 'Aisha added. "But the Prophet saw Gabriel in his true form twice." (Book #60, Hadith #378)

jo banda Allah per jhod bolta hai ios ku tum log kasey son latey hoo.

 

[Veila Mast]

Re: Hazarat Ali bin Abu Talib(AS)

Tahir ul Qadri Quran Translation is against Athentic Hadith Please Dont Listen and Follow This Person.


Tahir ul Qadri Quran Translation Nazubillah totally Against Athentic hadith if you people have proof please proof me if i am wrong other wise dont Delete my post.
??? ???? ?????? ??????


??????????????? (???????????????????????) ?????? (??????????????????????????) ????????? (1) ????? (????) ???? ?? ?????? ???? (???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ????? ????? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ????) ?? (????) ??? ????? ??? ?? (????) ??? ?? ?????? (2) ??? ?? (????) ????? ?? ???? ???? ????? (3) ??? ?? ????? ??????? ??? ???? ?? ?? ????? ?? ???? ??? (4) ????????????????? (??) ?? (?????????) ???? (????) ???????? (5)????????????????????? (????????) ?? (????) ??????????????????(6) ??? ?? (???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??? ????? ????? ???? ??) ?? ?? ????? ????? ?? ??? (???? ?????? ??? ?? ?????? ?? ???)? (7) ????? (??????????????????????????????????????????) ??????????????????????????? (8) ??? (????????????????????????????????????????????) ??????????????????????????? (?????????????) ????????? (?????)? (9) ?? (??? ??? ????? ???? ? ???? ??) ??? (??) ?? ???? ???? (?????) ?? ??? ??? ?????? ?? (???) ??? ??????? (10) (??? ??) ?? ?? ??? ?? ???? ???? ???? ?? (??? ??) ?????? ?? ?????? (11) ??? ?? ?? ?? ??? ?? ?????? ?? ?? ?? ????? ?? ?????? (12) ??????????????????? (??????) ???????????? (???) ????? (??????????????????????????????)?(
13)


Original Quran Translation With Authentic Hadith Proof


??? ???? ?????? ??????


????? ?? ??? ?? ?? ?? ????? ??? (1) ?????? ???? ?? ????? ??? ?? ????? ???? ?? (2) ??? ?? ?? ???? ????? ?? ??? ???? ?? (3)?? ?? ??? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??? ?? (4) ??? ?????? (???????) ?? ??? ?????? ?? (5) ?? ??? ??? ??? ?? ?? ?? ???? ??? (???? ???? ???) (6) ??? ?? (????? ??) ????? ????? ?? ??? (7) ??? ????? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???? ??? (8) ??? ????? ?? ???? ?? ????? ??? ?? ?? ?? ??? ?? (9) ??? ?? ?? ???? ?????? ?? ?? ??? ???? ??? ?? ??? ???? ??? ?? ?? (10) ???? ???? ??? ??? ?? ????? ??? (11)??? ?? ??? ?? ?? ????? ?? ?? ??? ?????? ?? (12) ??? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??? ????? ?? (13)


SuraNajam53:1-13
SahihBukhari


NarratedMasruq: I said to 'Aisha, "O Mother! Did Prophet Muhammad see his Lord?" Aisha said, "What you have said makes my hair stand on end ! Know that if somebody tells you one of the following three things, he is a liar: Whoever tells you that Muhammad saw his Lord, is a liar." Then Aisha recited the Verse: 'No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision. He is the Most Courteous Well-Acquainted with all things.' (6.103) 'It is not fitting for a human being that Allah should speak to him except by inspiration or from behind a veil.' (42.51) 'Aisha further said, "And whoever tells you that the Prophet knows what is going to happen tomorrow, is a liar." She then recited: 'No soul can know what it will earn tomorrow.' (31.34) She added: "And whoever tell you that he concealed (some of Allah's orders), is a liar." Then she recited: 'O Apostle! Proclaim (the Message) which has been sent down to you from your Lord..' (5.67) 'Aisha added. "But the Prophet saw Gabriel in his true form twice." (Book #60, Hadith #378)

jo banda Allah per jhod bolta hai ios ku tum log kasey son latey hoo.

Don't you believe ALLAH is on ARSH!

You certainly do.

Then let me ask you a few question:

You believe Allah is on Arsh then definitely ARSH has witnessed ALLAH!

What is Arsh?

Sifat or Makhlooq?

If MAKHLOOQ then listen INSAN is ASHRAF UL MAKHLOOQ and Rasool Allah Sal Lallah o Wasalm is most superior in ALL MAKHLOOQ!

If ARSH can witness Allah then WHY CAN'T MOST SUPERIOR!

 

[molson4u]

Re: Hazarat Ali bin Abu Talib(AS)

Pakistan1947....Nobody will believe your stupid argument. All hadith books, muhadis, mufti, Ullama and 95% muslims are not wrong. You wahabi's have your own religion same as qadani's.

Hear the lecture and see what Prophet said about you. The holy Prophet Muhammad said: only momeen will love Ali and Munafiq will degrade Ali. Hadith can't be wrong. You Mawaya, Yazeed, Al Saud lover hate Muhammad and His Ahlaybat. The greatness of Ali can't be swallowed by you.

Listen to you stupid and retared arguement. Maula means servent... so prophet is saying to people that whoever I am servent of Ali is his servant. To you prophet was a servant of Muslims. Maula mean Malik and all Muhadis, 4 Imam's and Mufti's agree that maula means Malik.

Hazarat Omer bin Khatab(RA) was the first to congraduate Hazarat Ali for been Nominated Maula of all monineen. Nobody will buy your unedcuated arguement, just to degrade the Imam, the fourth Qaliph, Yaad and Brother of the holy Prophet to be a servant. Its you who is keeping up with Mawaya Theology and so Lana t on ALI and his Family( Nausbillah)

 

[Pakistani1947]

Re: Hazarat Ali bin Abu Talib(AS)

Pakistan1947....Nobody will believe your stupid argument. All hadith books, muhadis, mufti, Ullama and 95% muslims are not wrong. You wahabi's have your own religion same as qadani's.

Hear the lecture and see what Prophet said about you. The holy Prophet Muhammad said: only momeen will love Ali and Munafiq will degrade Ali. Hadith can't be wrong. You Mawaya, Yazeed, Al Saud lover hate Muhammad and His Ahlaybat. The greatness of Ali can't be swallowed by you.

Listen to you stupid and retared arguement. Maula means servent... so prophet is saying to people that whoever I am servent of Ali is his servant. To you prophet was a servant of Muslims. Maula mean Malik and all Muhadis, 4 Imam's and Mufti's agree that maula means Malik.

Hazarat Omer bin Khatab(RA) was the first to congraduate Hazarat Ali for been Nominated Maula of all monineen. Nobody will buy your unedcuated arguement, just to degrade the Imam, the fourth Qaliph, Yaad and Brother of the holy Prophet to be a servant. Its you who is keeping up with Mawaya Theology and so Lana t on ALI and his Family( Nausebillah)

What a baseless response!

I mentioned earlier many times that i do not want to indulge into a debate with a Shia as they (shia) do not believe in authentic Sunni Hadeeth books sush as Sahih Mulim and Sahih Bukhari and there is always a risk that they (Shia) would find ways to insult (Nauzobillah) Sahabah (رضّى الله عنه).

 

[Pakistani1947]

Re: Hazarat Ali bin Abu Talib(AS)

Don't you believe ALLAH is on ARSH!

You certainly do.

Then let me ask you a few question:

You believe Allah is on Arsh then definitely ARSH has witnessed ALLAH!

What is Arsh?

Sifat or Makhlooq?

If MAKHLOOQ then listen INSAN is ASHRAF UL MAKHLOOQ and Rasool Allah Sal Lallah o Wasalm is most superior in ALL MAKHLOOQ!

If ARSH can witness Allah then WHY CAN'T MOST SUPERIOR!

What a illogical response. You mean to say that If Allah's Kursi "Chair" seen Allah than why can't our Prophet Muhammad (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) see Him?

Evidences from the Qur'an that Allah is above His creation:


As mentioned earlier, the Qur'an is full of both explicit and implicit proofs. Among the implicit proofs are the several verses that mention of deeds and Jesus being raised to Allah. Obviously, only what is below is raised or ascends. As Allah says, the meaning of which is:
"And when Allah said: 'O Jesus! I will take you and raise you to Myself'."[3:55]
"To Him ascend (all) the goodly words, and the righteous deeds lift them."[35:10]
"From Allah, the Lord of the Places of Ascent, the angels and the Ruh (Gabriel) ascend to Him in a day the measure whereof is of fifty thousand years."[70:3-4]
And there are many other verses of similar nature but the above should suffice in making the point. Among the explicit verses, there are several other verses that mention clearly that their Lord is above them
"And He is the Subduer, above His slaves, and He is the All-Wise, Well Acquainted with all things."[6:18]
And even more clearer:
"Do you feel secure that He, Who is fis-sama (above the heavens), will not cause the earth to sink…Or do you feel secure that He, Who is fis-sama (above the heavens) will not send against you a violent whirlwind?" [67:16-17]
It is important to point out here that the literal translation of 'fis-sama' is 'in' the heavens. The scholars of tafseer have explained it according to the Arabic language for 'fi' in this context to have the meaning of above as it is not possible for Allah to be surrounded by His creation i.e. the heavens. Also, sometimes the word 'fi' is used in the meaning of 'ala' (on) as mentioned in another verse:
"I will surely crucify you 'fi' (on) the trunks of palm-trees."[20:71]
Now, obviously the 'fi' in this verse refers not to 'in' but to 'on' as one cannot be crucified within a trunk!
The other interpretation is based on the variant meanings of the word 'Sama' which in Arabic can refers to that which is elevated-the higher, or uppermost of anything (the Muhkam). It can also refer to the ceiling of a house, to the sky, to the heavens and to elevation and transcendence. The meaning should not be, hence, confused with its predominant acceptation, a word of well-known meaning: the sky-the canopy of the earth (taj al-aroos). Hence, the verse could be translated as the one Who is in transcendence to all creation which in essence, has the same meaning of being above the heavens.
Evidences from the Sunnah (the Way) of the Prophet
The sunnah of the Prophet is the explanation of the Quran. One cannot take the Quran alone without letting the sunnah tag along. Like the Quran, the Prophet made it extremely clear the truth on this matter of where Allah is. Some of the ahadith on this matter are quoted next:
Abu Hurairah narrates that the Messenger said, "Whoever donates the equal of a date from whatever was collected righteously, and only good is ascended to Allah, then, He will accept it (the charity) with His Right and raise it for its giver till it becomes like a mountain." [Bukhari]
More clear:
Abdullah ibn Amr ibn Al-As related that the Messenger said, "Allah grants mercy to the merciful. Be merciful to those who are on the earth, (then) He Who is fis-Sama (above the heavens) will be merciful to you." [Abu Dawood & At-Tirmidhi]
Even more clearer:
Jabir ibn Abdillah said: "The Messenger of Allah said in his speech on the day of Arafah: 'Did I convey (the Message).' They said: 'Yes.' While raising his finger to the sky and then pointing at them, he said: 'O my Lord, be a witness." [Muslim]
And the Muslims of today have the audacity to say that Allah is everywhere when their own Messenger pointed nowhere except to the sky above him in this clear hadith. I ask you, O Muslims, if you were to sit in front of me and I were to refer to you, would not I point directly to you and NOT the ground or to the sky to do so? So, why is it then when the Prophet points to the sky above him to refer to Allah we do not understand from this that Allah was above him, is above you and all his creations? Why do we wonder any more?
Finally, justice cannot be done to this topic without mentioning the hadith about the slave-girl, whose faith was affirmed by just two questions, one being 'Where is Allah?':
Muawiyah bin Al-Hakam As-Salmi said:
"I had a slave-girl who used to herd sheep for me. One day I discovered that a wolf had killed one of her sheep, and I'm a man from the children of Adam, I get upset like they get upset, and I slapped her in the face. Then I went to the Prophet who impressed upon me the seriousness of my act. I said, 'O Messenger of Allah, should I not set her free?' He said, 'Bring her to me.' He asked her, 'Where is Allah', She said, 'He is above the heavens.' He said, 'Who am I?' She said, 'You are the Messenger of Allah.' He said, 'Free her, for she is a believer.' (Muslim and Abu Dawud)
Among the benefits inherent to this hadith (as mentioned by Muhammad bin Jamil Zeno in 'The Pillars of Islam and Iman'- pub. Maktaba Dar-as-Salaam) are:

1. The Companions of the Prophet used to refer to him all of their problems, whether minor or major. Hence, all issues for judgment should be referred to Allah and His Messenger, acting upon the Statement of Allah : "But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Mohammed) a judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission." (V.4: 65)
2. The Prophet reproached the Companion for slapping the slave-girl and considered it a serious matter.
3. Belief is a condition for freeing a slave and since the Prophet allowed her to be free, she had to be judged a believer by the Prophet otherwise she would continue to be a slave.
4. The necessity of asking about Tawheed (Islamic Monotheism); and part of it is the belief that Allah is above His Throne, knowledge of this being mandatory.
5. The legitimacy of asking "Where is Allah?"; the fact that asking such is actually Sunnah, since the Prophet himself did not hesitate asking about it.
6. The obligation of replying that Allah is above the heavens, since the Prophet affirmed the reply of the slave girl and it also goes along with the Statement of Allah in the Quran: "Do you feel secure that He, Who is over the heaven (Allah), will not cause the earth to sink with you?" (V. 67: 16)
7. The correctness of Belief includes the testimony that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.
8. The belief that Allah is above the heaven indicates soundness of one's Belief, and it is mandatory on every believer to accept this position.
9. The refutation of the erroneous belief that Allah is in every place by His Essence. The truth is that Allah is with us by His Knowledge not by His Supreme Self.
10. The fact that the Prophet ordered for the slave-girl to be brought to her to allow him to test her shows that he did not possess the knowledge of the unseen [except of what Allah informed him. This refutes the claim of many Sufis and other Muslims that the Prophet had complete knowledge of the unseen].

The Ijma of the Sahaba and Their Sayings
As Muslims, we have three main sources of our deen. Two have already been mentioned. The third is Ijma' of the Sahaba because the Sahaba would never agree on falsehood. Let us examine some statements from this generation:
From the first Khalifa:
Abu Bakr As-Sideeq said: "Whoever worshipped Mohammed, Mohammed has died. Whoever worshipped Allah, Allah is Alive fis-Sama (above the heavens), and death does not touch Him." [Ad-Darimi in Ar-Radd 'Alal-Jahmiyyah].
Other than stating that Allah is indeed above the Heavens, Abu Bakr made another important refutation here. And that is to refute all those who say that Mohammed is actually alive and we can direct our dua' to him or that he can become a source of shifa' (intercession) or wasila (nearness to Allah) in this life. Indeed, the Prophet will be a shifa' for the Muslims on the Day of Judgment and indeed following the sunnah of Allah and His Rasul will be a source of wasila in this life but asking the Prophet for intercession in this life or seeking his help in nearness to Allah by saying 'O Mohammed, bring us nearer to Allah' or 'O Mohammed, we ask Allah to grant so and so for your sake' is nothing but falsehood and goes against Tawheed.
From the second Khalifa:
Umar ibn al-Khattab visited Syria riding on his camel. The companions said to him: "O leader of the believers, will you not ride a Birthoun (a jade, horse of mean, non Arab breed) so you may be intercepted by the great and noted people." Umar replied: "Do I not see you from here? Verily the matter comes from here" (and he pointed with his hand to the sky). [Ibn Qayyim in Ijtima al-Joyush al-Islamiyyah]
The Sayings of the Tabiyeen and the Tabe-Tabiyeen
The second generation after the companions (tabiyeen) continued the firmness in matters of Aqeedah. There are too many to enumerate. A few examples include Marwan, Qatadah, Sulayman, Al-Taymi, Muqatil and so on. [Al-Uluw by At-Thahabee]
And we continue to see the same thinking in the next generation (the tabe-tabiyeen). As narrated by Al-Bayhaqi:
"We used to say, while at-Tabiyeen were still many, that Allah, all praise to Him, is upon His Throne. We believe in what the Sunnah has told us of His Attributes." [Al-Uluw by At-Thahabee].
And as Muslims we know that the throne of Allah is above the heavens and the earth.
The Sayings of the Imam (including Abul Hasan al-Ashari)
The Imams of the four famous madhabs were not fearful of making the truth known. Nay, they would never be afraid of spreading the true knowledge. We start by the saying of Imam Abu-Haneefa which in itself sums up the importance of this whole treatise:
"Whoever says that he does not know whether His Lord is above the heavens or on earth is a disbeliever (kafir!), because Allah has said (meaning): 'The Ever-Merciful Istawa (rose) upon His Throne' [20-5]. And His Throne is above the seven heavens." Abu Muti al-Balkhi asked him: "What if says that yes Allah is upon His Throne but he does not know whether the throne is above the earth or on earth itself?" To which Abu Haneefa replied, "He is (still) a disbeliever (kafir), because he rejected that Allah is above the heavens , and that the creation make supplications above to their Lord and not downward." [At-Thahabee in Al-Uluw]
Is there need to say more? But let us continue with Imam Shafi (who mentions about what Imam Malik too believed) who said:
"The sunnah that we follow along with our companions, followers of hadith whom I met and took knowledge from, like Sufiyan, Imam Malik, and others, is that we believe that there is no god except Allah and that Mohammed is His Messenger. And that Allah , the Praised One, is upon His Throne fis-sama (above the heavens). He comes closer to His slaves as He wills. Allah descends to the lower heaven as He wills." [At-Thahabee in Al-Uluw]
No other Imam has sayings about Istawa than Imam of As-Sunnah Ahmad ibn Hanbal. He wrote his famous book, Ar-Radd ala al-Jahmiyyah. Please refer to this book for countless arguments on this issue.
It is benefit to mention the sayings of Imam Abul Hasan al-Ashari quite prominently as he was unjustly accused of sayings which he later refuted and disowned, while adhering to the belief of the righteous group of ahl-Sunnah wal Jamah. In his book 'Ibanah' (the Clarification), al-Ashari clearly refutes many of the sayings of the 'followers' of the Imam. What strangeness then, that the leader of the Asha'ris denies himself most of this group's sayings and beliefs? How even more strange that Imam al-Ashari recanted all his false beliefs while his 'followers' wish to still hold fast onto these? Imam Abul Hasan al-Ashari says in 'Ibanah':
"If one asks me what I say about al-Istawa (Allah's rising upon the throne)? We say to him: 'Allah Istawa ala (rose upon) His Throne. Allah said so meaning of which is: The Ever-Merciful Istawa (rose) upon His Throne' [20-5]. Some of the Mu'tazilah, al-jahmiyyah and Khawarij said about this verse that it means He captured, overpowered and owned (the Throne), and that Allah is everywhere; they denied the possibility that Allah is upon His Throne as the righteous people affirm Him to be; and they took the 'Istawa' (the settling) to symbolize power. If it were as they asserted, then what difference would there be between the Throne and the earth?"
How true are these statements. Yet we continue to find in many of today's translations of the Quran the same disease of mistranslation and denying the attributes of Allah. How many of us would continue to say confidently that Allah is everywhere making nothing but a statement of pantheism and shirk (polytheism).
And At-Tirmidhi, the great muhaditheen said: "He is above the Throne as He described in His Book. His Knowledge, Power, and Lordship are everywhere." [Al-fatawa by Ibn Taymeeah]
And behold, think about the following statement from the great scholar Ibn Khuzaymah:
"Whoever does not affirm that Allah is above His heavens, upon His Throne and that He is distinct from His creation; must be forced to repent. If he does not repent, then he must be beheaded and then thrown into a garbage dump, so that the Muslims and the Ahl-Dhimma (the Christians and the Jew) will not suffer from his stinking smell." [Al-Hakim in Al-Marifah].
Logical Reasoning
Some people who are devoid of the light of faith in their hearts, those who still yearn to follow their aql (intellect) in matters of deen will perhaps understand this concept through their own medicine, i.e., logical reasoning through aql. The following should be enough to close all questions about this topic if one can be so proud to reject the previous proofs. After having exposed this group's refutation of what the best generations of Islam believed in, we will now expose even the logic of the deniers of truth:
The evidence mentioned in the previous chapter either indicates, or does not indicate that Allah is everywhere .
(a) If it does not indicate that Allah is everywhere, then they can no longer use it for argument.
(b) If it does indicate (that Allah is everywhere), then logical evidence, or discerned evidence (from ayat or ahadeeth) will either emerge to indicate, or not to indicate the conspicuous falseness (of claiming that Allah is everywhere).
(c) If (a) is true, then this is our proof that their claim, that Allah is everywhere, is false.
(d) If(b) is true, then [we tell them]: you are, therefore, obliged to say that Allah is everywhere; and you are further obliged to say that Allah is in garbage dumps, people's stomachs, and in rest rooms. May Allah be highly exalted above that, and may Allah curse him who has drawn us to have to write this.
(e) If you say that Allah is not in these dirty places because He is praised from such, then we say: "Where is your proof?" If via the discerned evidence it becomes apparent to you that He is every place, and these dirty places are places, then He must be there. And you cannot exclude places without textual proof (discerned evidence), and that is not to be found; therefore, these texts must imply one meaning which is that it is with His knowledge that Allah is with us, wherever we are.
Conclusion
Many a ayat in the Quran are used by the liars and heretics to prove their claim that Allah is everywhere. Among them are the verses pointing to Allah's closeness to His Creation to the point of being closer than the jugular vein. But how then, if one accepts that this is proof that Allah is everywhere, will one refute all the countless arguments/verses/ahadith that were presented here. Is it then that there is contradiction in the Book of Allah, the Sunnah and that all the Imams and the scholars have preached falsehood? No rather the claim that Allah is everywhere is misinterpretation to the point of being disbelief. These verses merely point to the fact that Allah is everywhere but only by His Knowledge, His Seeing, His Hearing and His Power. Only this explanation will allow one to be in compliance with all the other proofs from the Quran, the Sunnah and the Ijma of the companions.
There are numerous evidences to prove our belief, (that Allah is upon the Throne). We end this discussion with what Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal said to a Jahmi: "On the Day of Resurrection, Won't there be Paradise, Hell-fire, the Throne, and the Air?" The Jahmi replied: "Yes." Ahmad said: "Then where will our Lord be?" The Jahmi replied: "He will be everywhere and in everything as He was in this life ..." Ahmad said: "Then, according to you: that of Allah which was upon the Throne, will be upon the Throne, and that of Allah which was in Paradise, will be in Paradise, and that of Allah which was in Hell-fire, will be in Hell-fire, and that of Allah which was in the Air, will be in the Air? It was at that point that their lying about Allah, whose praise is exalted became clear." [Ar-Radd 'Ala Az-Zanadiqah].

Source

 

[Bombaybuz]

Re: Hazarat Ali bin Abu Talib(AS)

when will we grow up from this ... why we cannot agree to disagree ... i have no issue if one sect feel's themselves more close to Ali (KA) why one must feel bad if i see ABU BAKAR (RA) as the closest companion to NABI PAK (saw)
we can disagree on this but how can be disagree that Nabi Pak(saw) said that the one how is into sectarianism is not among us .... how can be disagree that Tolerance, patience, love and brotherhood, were the essential parts of NABI PAK's (saw) Virtue ... and if we cannot develop these qualities into our character then at least we can agree to disagree ... without any hard feelings, without any loose talks but actually allowing other some breathing space where things can come back to norm and small issues can be discussed and decided in a friendly manner.

Let me repeat what i said other day also ... khuda ki kasam adhi zindage hindu aur kafir sai matha laganey k baad kahta hoon, mujha apna shia bhai Soo dafa payara hai ... ka meray Nabi Pak(saw) ka sekhaya kalma parhta hai ... Allah hum dono ko hidayyat dey k hum us SIRAT A MUSTAKEEM pay chaal sakain jis ka her rakaat main waada kartey hain.

 

[molson4u]

Re: Hazarat Ali bin Abu Talib(AS)

Pakistani1947( copy paste maula) did you copy everything from saudi salfi offical website. Don't copy paste just tell us the link. FYI Dr. Tahir ul Qadri is not shia and Hadith he is quoting are from Muslim and bokhari. It is enough for people to know that you have no knowledge of Islam nor have you heard the video. It's just hatred towards Hazarat Ali.

Prophet said: O Allah befriend those who befriend Ali and be enemy of those who are enemy of Ali. His Hadith proved right because you guys( Salfi/ Wahabi's) are enemy of Ali hence enemy of Allah and you definitely are munfiq. Prophet said all momineen will love Ali and all munafi qeen will have grudge against Ali and you prove it for the Muslims.

 

[Veila Mast]

Re: Hazarat Ali bin Abu Talib(AS)

What a illogical response. You mean to say that If Allah's Kursi "Chair" seen Allah than why can't our Prophet Muhammad (???? ???? ???? ???? ?????) see Him?

Evidences from the Qur'an that Allah is above His creation:


As mentioned earlier, the Qur'an is full of both explicit and implicit proofs. Among the implicit proofs are the several verses that mention of deeds and Jesus being raised to Allah. Obviously, only what is below is raised or ascends. As Allah says, the meaning of which is:
"And when Allah said: 'O Jesus! I will take you and raise you to Myself'."[3:55]
"To Him ascend (all) the goodly words, and the righteous deeds lift them."[35:10]
"From Allah, the Lord of the Places of Ascent, the angels and the Ruh (Gabriel) ascend to Him in a day the measure whereof is of fifty thousand years."[70:3-4]
And there are many other verses of similar nature but the above should suffice in making the point. Among the explicit verses, there are several other verses that mention clearly that their Lord is above them
"And He is the Subduer, above His slaves, and He is the All-Wise, Well Acquainted with all things."[6:18]
And even more clearer:
"Do you feel secure that He, Who is fis-sama (above the heavens), will not cause the earth to sink…Or do you feel secure that He, Who is fis-sama (above the heavens) will not send against you a violent whirlwind?" [67:16-17]
It is important to point out here that the literal translation of 'fis-sama' is 'in' the heavens. The scholars of tafseer have explained it according to the Arabic language for 'fi' in this context to have the meaning of above as it is not possible for Allah to be surrounded by His creation i.e. the heavens. Also, sometimes the word 'fi' is used in the meaning of 'ala' (on) as mentioned in another verse:
"I will surely crucify you 'fi' (on) the trunks of palm-trees."[20:71]
Now, obviously the 'fi' in this verse refers not to 'in' but to 'on' as one cannot be crucified within a trunk!
The other interpretation is based on the variant meanings of the word 'Sama' which in Arabic can refers to that which is elevated-the higher, or uppermost of anything (the Muhkam). It can also refer to the ceiling of a house, to the sky, to the heavens and to elevation and transcendence. The meaning should not be, hence, confused with its predominant acceptation, a word of well-known meaning: the sky-the canopy of the earth (taj al-aroos). Hence, the verse could be translated as the one Who is in transcendence to all creation which in essence, has the same meaning of being above the heavens.
Evidences from the Sunnah (the Way) of the Prophet
The sunnah of the Prophet is the explanation of the Quran. One cannot take the Quran alone without letting the sunnah tag along. Like the Quran, the Prophet made it extremely clear the truth on this matter of where Allah is. Some of the ahadith on this matter are quoted next:
Abu Hurairah narrates that the Messenger said, "Whoever donates the equal of a date from whatever was collected righteously, and only good is ascended to Allah, then, He will accept it (the charity) with His Right and raise it for its giver till it becomes like a mountain." [Bukhari]
More clear:
Abdullah ibn Amr ibn Al-As related that the Messenger said, "Allah grants mercy to the merciful. Be merciful to those who are on the earth, (then) He Who is fis-Sama (above the heavens) will be merciful to you." [Abu Dawood & At-Tirmidhi]
Even more clearer:
Jabir ibn Abdillah said: "The Messenger of Allah said in his speech on the day of Arafah: 'Did I convey (the Message).' They said: 'Yes.' While raising his finger to the sky and then pointing at them, he said: 'O my Lord, be a witness." [Muslim]
And the Muslims of today have the audacity to say that Allah is everywhere when their own Messenger pointed nowhere except to the sky above him in this clear hadith. I ask you, O Muslims, if you were to sit in front of me and I were to refer to you, would not I point directly to you and NOT the ground or to the sky to do so? So, why is it then when the Prophet points to the sky above him to refer to Allah we do not understand from this that Allah was above him, is above you and all his creations? Why do we wonder any more?
Finally, justice cannot be done to this topic without mentioning the hadith about the slave-girl, whose faith was affirmed by just two questions, one being 'Where is Allah?':
Muawiyah bin Al-Hakam As-Salmi said:
"I had a slave-girl who used to herd sheep for me. One day I discovered that a wolf had killed one of her sheep, and I'm a man from the children of Adam, I get upset like they get upset, and I slapped her in the face. Then I went to the Prophet who impressed upon me the seriousness of my act. I said, 'O Messenger of Allah, should I not set her free?' He said, 'Bring her to me.' He asked her, 'Where is Allah', She said, 'He is above the heavens.' He said, 'Who am I?' She said, 'You are the Messenger of Allah.' He said, 'Free her, for she is a believer.' (Muslim and Abu Dawud)
Among the benefits inherent to this hadith (as mentioned by Muhammad bin Jamil Zeno in 'The Pillars of Islam and Iman'- pub. Maktaba Dar-as-Salaam) are:

1. The Companions of the Prophet used to refer to him all of their problems, whether minor or major. Hence, all issues for judgment should be referred to Allah and His Messenger, acting upon the Statement of Allah : "But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Mohammed) a judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission." (V.4: 65)
2. The Prophet reproached the Companion for slapping the slave-girl and considered it a serious matter.
3. Belief is a condition for freeing a slave and since the Prophet allowed her to be free, she had to be judged a believer by the Prophet otherwise she would continue to be a slave.
4. The necessity of asking about Tawheed (Islamic Monotheism); and part of it is the belief that Allah is above His Throne, knowledge of this being mandatory.
5. The legitimacy of asking "Where is Allah?"; the fact that asking such is actually Sunnah, since the Prophet himself did not hesitate asking about it.
6. The obligation of replying that Allah is above the heavens, since the Prophet affirmed the reply of the slave girl and it also goes along with the Statement of Allah in the Quran: "Do you feel secure that He, Who is over the heaven (Allah), will not cause the earth to sink with you?" (V. 67: 16)
7. The correctness of Belief includes the testimony that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.
8. The belief that Allah is above the heaven indicates soundness of one's Belief, and it is mandatory on every believer to accept this position.
9. The refutation of the erroneous belief that Allah is in every place by His Essence. The truth is that Allah is with us by His Knowledge not by His Supreme Self.
10. The fact that the Prophet ordered for the slave-girl to be brought to her to allow him to test her shows that he did not possess the knowledge of the unseen [except of what Allah informed him. This refutes the claim of many Sufis and other Muslims that the Prophet had complete knowledge of the unseen].

The Ijma of the Sahaba and Their Sayings
As Muslims, we have three main sources of our deen. Two have already been mentioned. The third is Ijma' of the Sahaba because the Sahaba would never agree on falsehood. Let us examine some statements from this generation:
From the first Khalifa:
Abu Bakr As-Sideeq said: "Whoever worshipped Mohammed, Mohammed has died. Whoever worshipped Allah, Allah is Alive fis-Sama (above the heavens), and death does not touch Him." [Ad-Darimi in Ar-Radd 'Alal-Jahmiyyah].
Other than stating that Allah is indeed above the Heavens, Abu Bakr made another important refutation here. And that is to refute all those who say that Mohammed is actually alive and we can direct our dua' to him or that he can become a source of shifa' (intercession) or wasila (nearness to Allah) in this life. Indeed, the Prophet will be a shifa' for the Muslims on the Day of Judgment and indeed following the sunnah of Allah and His Rasul will be a source of wasila in this life but asking the Prophet for intercession in this life or seeking his help in nearness to Allah by saying 'O Mohammed, bring us nearer to Allah' or 'O Mohammed, we ask Allah to grant so and so for your sake' is nothing but falsehood and goes against Tawheed.
From the second Khalifa:
Umar ibn al-Khattab visited Syria riding on his camel. The companions said to him: "O leader of the believers, will you not ride a Birthoun (a jade, horse of mean, non Arab breed) so you may be intercepted by the great and noted people." Umar replied: "Do I not see you from here? Verily the matter comes from here" (and he pointed with his hand to the sky). [Ibn Qayyim in Ijtima al-Joyush al-Islamiyyah]
The Sayings of the Tabiyeen and the Tabe-Tabiyeen
The second generation after the companions (tabiyeen) continued the firmness in matters of Aqeedah. There are too many to enumerate. A few examples include Marwan, Qatadah, Sulayman, Al-Taymi, Muqatil and so on. [Al-Uluw by At-Thahabee]
And we continue to see the same thinking in the next generation (the tabe-tabiyeen). As narrated by Al-Bayhaqi:
"We used to say, while at-Tabiyeen were still many, that Allah, all praise to Him, is upon His Throne. We believe in what the Sunnah has told us of His Attributes." [Al-Uluw by At-Thahabee].
And as Muslims we know that the throne of Allah is above the heavens and the earth.
The Sayings of the Imam (including Abul Hasan al-Ashari)
The Imams of the four famous madhabs were not fearful of making the truth known. Nay, they would never be afraid of spreading the true knowledge. We start by the saying of Imam Abu-Haneefa which in itself sums up the importance of this whole treatise:
"Whoever says that he does not know whether His Lord is above the heavens or on earth is a disbeliever (kafir!), because Allah has said (meaning): 'The Ever-Merciful Istawa (rose) upon His Throne' [20-5]. And His Throne is above the seven heavens." Abu Muti al-Balkhi asked him: "What if says that yes Allah is upon His Throne but he does not know whether the throne is above the earth or on earth itself?" To which Abu Haneefa replied, "He is (still) a disbeliever (kafir), because he rejected that Allah is above the heavens , and that the creation make supplications above to their Lord and not downward." [At-Thahabee in Al-Uluw]
Is there need to say more? But let us continue with Imam Shafi (who mentions about what Imam Malik too believed) who said:
"The sunnah that we follow along with our companions, followers of hadith whom I met and took knowledge from, like Sufiyan, Imam Malik, and others, is that we believe that there is no god except Allah and that Mohammed is His Messenger. And that Allah , the Praised One, is upon His Throne fis-sama (above the heavens). He comes closer to His slaves as He wills. Allah descends to the lower heaven as He wills." [At-Thahabee in Al-Uluw]
No other Imam has sayings about Istawa than Imam of As-Sunnah Ahmad ibn Hanbal. He wrote his famous book, Ar-Radd ala al-Jahmiyyah. Please refer to this book for countless arguments on this issue.
It is benefit to mention the sayings of Imam Abul Hasan al-Ashari quite prominently as he was unjustly accused of sayings which he later refuted and disowned, while adhering to the belief of the righteous group of ahl-Sunnah wal Jamah. In his book 'Ibanah' (the Clarification), al-Ashari clearly refutes many of the sayings of the 'followers' of the Imam. What strangeness then, that the leader of the Asha'ris denies himself most of this group's sayings and beliefs? How even more strange that Imam al-Ashari recanted all his false beliefs while his 'followers' wish to still hold fast onto these? Imam Abul Hasan al-Ashari says in 'Ibanah':
"If one asks me what I say about al-Istawa (Allah's rising upon the throne)? We say to him: 'Allah Istawa ala (rose upon) His Throne. Allah said so meaning of which is: The Ever-Merciful Istawa (rose) upon His Throne' [20-5]. Some of the Mu'tazilah, al-jahmiyyah and Khawarij said about this verse that it means He captured, overpowered and owned (the Throne), and that Allah is everywhere; they denied the possibility that Allah is upon His Throne as the righteous people affirm Him to be; and they took the 'Istawa' (the settling) to symbolize power. If it were as they asserted, then what difference would there be between the Throne and the earth?"
How true are these statements. Yet we continue to find in many of today's translations of the Quran the same disease of mistranslation and denying the attributes of Allah. How many of us would continue to say confidently that Allah is everywhere making nothing but a statement of pantheism and shirk (polytheism).
And At-Tirmidhi, the great muhaditheen said: "He is above the Throne as He described in His Book. His Knowledge, Power, and Lordship are everywhere." [Al-fatawa by Ibn Taymeeah]
And behold, think about the following statement from the great scholar Ibn Khuzaymah:
"Whoever does not affirm that Allah is above His heavens, upon His Throne and that He is distinct from His creation; must be forced to repent. If he does not repent, then he must be beheaded and then thrown into a garbage dump, so that the Muslims and the Ahl-Dhimma (the Christians and the Jew) will not suffer from his stinking smell." [Al-Hakim in Al-Marifah].
Logical Reasoning
Some people who are devoid of the light of faith in their hearts, those who still yearn to follow their aql (intellect) in matters of deen will perhaps understand this concept through their own medicine, i.e., logical reasoning through aql. The following should be enough to close all questions about this topic if one can be so proud to reject the previous proofs. After having exposed this group's refutation of what the best generations of Islam believed in, we will now expose even the logic of the deniers of truth:
The evidence mentioned in the previous chapter either indicates, or does not indicate that Allah is everywhere .
(a) If it does not indicate that Allah is everywhere, then they can no longer use it for argument.
(b) If it does indicate (that Allah is everywhere), then logical evidence, or discerned evidence (from ayat or ahadeeth) will either emerge to indicate, or not to indicate the conspicuous falseness (of claiming that Allah is everywhere).
(c) If (a) is true, then this is our proof that their claim, that Allah is everywhere, is false.
(d) If(b) is true, then [we tell them]: you are, therefore, obliged to say that Allah is everywhere; and you are further obliged to say that Allah is in garbage dumps, people's stomachs, and in rest rooms. May Allah be highly exalted above that, and may Allah curse him who has drawn us to have to write this.
(e) If you say that Allah is not in these dirty places because He is praised from such, then we say: "Where is your proof?" If via the discerned evidence it becomes apparent to you that He is every place, and these dirty places are places, then He must be there. And you cannot exclude places without textual proof (discerned evidence), and that is not to be found; therefore, these texts must imply one meaning which is that it is with His knowledge that Allah is with us, wherever we are.
Conclusion
Many a ayat in the Quran are used by the liars and heretics to prove their claim that Allah is everywhere. Among them are the verses pointing to Allah's closeness to His Creation to the point of being closer than the jugular vein. But how then, if one accepts that this is proof that Allah is everywhere, will one refute all the countless arguments/verses/ahadith that were presented here. Is it then that there is contradiction in the Book of Allah, the Sunnah and that all the Imams and the scholars have preached falsehood? No rather the claim that Allah is everywhere is misinterpretation to the point of being disbelief. These verses merely point to the fact that Allah is everywhere but only by His Knowledge, His Seeing, His Hearing and His Power. Only this explanation will allow one to be in compliance with all the other proofs from the Quran, the Sunnah and the Ijma of the companions.
There are numerous evidences to prove our belief, (that Allah is upon the Throne). We end this discussion with what Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal said to a Jahmi: "On the Day of Resurrection, Won't there be Paradise, Hell-fire, the Throne, and the Air?" The Jahmi replied: "Yes." Ahmad said: "Then where will our Lord be?" The Jahmi replied: "He will be everywhere and in everything as He was in this life ..." Ahmad said: "Then, according to you: that of Allah which was upon the Throne, will be upon the Throne, and that of Allah which was in Paradise, will be in Paradise, and that of Allah which was in Hell-fire, will be in Hell-fire, and that of Allah which was in the Air, will be in the Air? It was at that point that their lying about Allah, whose praise is exalted became clear." [Ar-Radd 'Ala Az-Zanadiqah].

Source

First understand the difference then debate!

Your stance is ZAT E BARI TALA IS ON ARSH that means Allah is PHYSICALLY present on Arsh

My stance is Tajal e Khaas on Arsh

Let me take a step forward about history.

We Ahl e Sunnah Wal Jamat believe that Madinah is Afzal than Makkah as Allah is not PHYSICALLY present in Khana Kaba and we believe SOIL THAT IS KISSING JISM E MUBARAK RASOOL ALLAH Sal Lallah o Wasalam is more sacred than Arsh and Kursi as Allah is not PHYSICALLY present there.

So to counter argue and declare this believe as Shirk NAJDI ULEMA came up with PHYSICAL PRESENCE OF ALLAH ON ARSH so that they may declare it more sacred than any thing else.

Now I hope your understand difference!

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