Last Person to Enter Heaven - Allah is Rehman and Raheem

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
In the posts I see that everyone is making it an issue whether Allah has knowledge of all things in all possible detail. This has little to do with taqdeer as told in the quran.

As for does Allah know what anyone is going to do in every possible detail?

This question is not discussed in the quran because it makes no sense.

1)Infinite cannot know the infinite. This question is like asking, does Allah know the greatest number? Because numbers keep going for ever and ever therefore the sense of ultimate number itself is nonsense. This is why such questions are senseless.

2)Infinite can only know anything that has a limit.

3)Even limited can have an aspect that is infinite. If any aspect become unlimited then against the infinite cannot know it. Therefore such a question again becomes senseless and serves no real purpose.

In the light of above explanation one can see what Allah can know and what he cannot and whether knowing something or not makes any difference in person or being of god or the creation.


Another way of looking at this is that all attributes of Allah are zaati personal and ever lasting however some of his attributes are indicative of his capabilities for his actions. So although divine attributes are everlasting divine actions are not ie actions of god are time bound.

For example, the universe was not there till Allah created it. This raises another question if universe was not there before Allah created it, did Allah know about it always or to put it in another way, was this universe in the knowledge of Allah always?

In the quran Allah repeatedly tells us that he has the ability to choose to do certain things or not to do them. This negates Allah knowing all things in all respects always. Ability to choose one action instead of another takes away idea of prior knowledge of things in all their detail.

From this it would seem that Allah also thinks things through this is why he talks of planing things and executing the plan. The being with ability to choose is bound to have ability to know as well.

Both acts of free will and act of knowing would therefore be actions of Allah and actions cannot be everlasting even if they are actions of god.

For example, actions are known as past, present and future. The while the quran was not yet revealed Allah knew it that it has not been revealed. When he revealed it from then on he knew that he has done this act already so it would appear that Allah knows things in sense of events as time bound. This shows that knowledge of Allah about things changes as things change with time.

Thinking along this line still opposes concept of predestination. In fact this line of reasoning shows Allah interactive with universe and creation.
 
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Unicorn

Banned
This is the test. He has given us wisdom as well as guidance. Those who choose to adhere to the guidance get the rewards. Let's first analyze why the system of reward. Let's take an example, suppose you have two children one is younger and one is older. You tell both of them not to stay late outside and come home before dark. You know and the elder child knows that after dark there are thugs outside who can cause them harm, but the younger kid may not be aware of that. Comes the evening and they both comes back home before dark. Who would you love the most, the one who obeyed you without knowing the consequence or not? Let's suppose they both come back home late, who you would be mad at more?
Guidance is a component of wisdom where wisdom is a torch and guidance is a light. Wisdom without guidance is no wisdom at all. Wisdom is a inherent part of a human being. If they are different I like to know how.

A pious person is person who have good intentions never bad and when the distinction between good and evil is clear his actions are shaped with by the good without any regard for profit or loss. When the line between good and evil is fine and blurry he uses his wisdom with good intentions and choose his course of actions, he examines the out come learns and "make necessary changes with in"(repentance) in that expands his wisdom and eventually recognizes the fine line no matter how blurry they are with constantly practicing.

If guidance and wisdom are two different things and we are required to follow guidance then wisdom is irrelevant and cannot be practically practiced in the above example.

If my younger does not understand he will never go out without my or an adult supervision. The child who understands and violates the rule will be disciplined both of kids will be loved equal at all times by me.

Your answer does contain words of wisdom. Perhaps one day I will able to comprehend and reconcile your answer in the mean time I will keep asking.

According to Christian Bible, the first human being Adam was granted the heaven with one simple condition from God " don't eat apple" with full prior knowledge of that he will eat the apple.
 

samar

Minister (2k+ posts)
Whats the aim of this life that we have???????

where were we before our birth???

Where would we b , after our death ????
 

biomat

Minister (2k+ posts)
Dear Unicorn
Assalam-o-alaikum
I also appreciate your way of writting on this issue. May ALLAH guide you to right path & give you good health.
About GUIDANCE & WISDOM yes you are right in a sense that both are different but essential. For example when new car is manufactured there is a OPERATOR MANUAL or USER MANUAL with it. Explaining what to do with the engine, fuel type, coolant type, tyres inflation pressure, service & tuning mileage etc etc.
This is guidance..
Wisdom is different from person to person, that is learning what is right & what is wrong. Some take wrong side that is their mind work in negative ways, that is they may be successful in all bad plans but every effort is in wrong way. Similarly a man can use his wisdom for good.
So you can understand from above example that you can use your car according to manufacturer guidelines or ruin the car by using it according to your mind.
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Please note that these examples which we use to explain CREATOR Vs CREATIONS relationship cannot fulfill it 100%. That is if you use your brain in interpreting the whole example in all aspects rather getting the main idea, then you will be lost. Because all the examples which we give from this world are FINITE that is BOUND TO PERISH & LIMITED BOUNDARY. So a small balloon cannot take whole earth air, but a sample of it. Similarly dont start analyzing whole example rather getting the point.
========================================================
Regarding Creation of Man & then sending to earth for punishment etc etc, yes ALLAH knew it. But again HE didnot intervened to stop Adam & Eve AS just before eating that fruit.. That is Adam & Eve despite of warning or guidance didnot used their wisdom or judgment & thus choosed wrong. Result was that ALLAH punished them for that negligence.
Again question arises why punishment.. Because Human being was created to act on free will using their wisdom according to guidance from their creator, thus became eligible for REWARD & PUNISHMENT. Because in contrast to humans ANGELS dont have free will so they are innocent as they do what ever told to them.
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Hope it will explain a bit..
As it is very lengthy topic so let it proceed & others should participate.
Jaza-k-ALLAH
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Guidance is a component of wisdom where wisdom is a torch and guidance is a light. Wisdom without guidance is no wisdom at all. Wisdom is a inherent part of a human being. If they are different I like to know how.

A pious person is person who have good intentions never bad and when the distinction between good and evil is clear his actions are shaped with by the good without any regard for profit or loss. When the line between good and evil is fine and blurry he uses his wisdom with good intentions and choose his course of actions, he examines the out come learns and "make necessary changes with in"(repentance) in that expands his wisdom and eventually recognizes the fine line no matter how blurry they are with constantly practicing.

If guidance and wisdom are two different things and we are required to follow guidance then wisdom is irrelevant and cannot be practically practiced in the above example.

If my younger does not understand he will never go out without my or an adult supervision. The child who understands and violates the rule will be disciplined both of kids will be loved equal at all times by me.

Your answer does contain words of wisdom. Perhaps one day I will able to comprehend and reconcile your answer in the mean time I will keep asking.

According to Christian Bible, the first human being Adam was granted the heaven with one simple condition from God " don't eat apple" with full prior knowledge of that he will eat the apple.

Dear Unicorn, I think guidance and wisdom are two separate things. Wisdom is based on personal experience whereas guidance comes from external source as an instruction, for reference or attention. The guidance may or may not be right or based on wisdom depending on the source and one may understand it or not.

regards and all the best.
 

shamsheer

Senator (1k+ posts)
Dear Unicorn! Let us know if we have missed answering any of your questions. I believe brother Bimat has answered your questions that you raised on my post.
 

MileStone

MPA (400+ posts)
Ok, I'll try again to make my point clear.

We need to have guidance as well as wisdom to pick the right choice. Taking the same examples of 2 cups. In order for you not to drink poison, you need to know that if you drink it you will die.


Imagine some one who does not know what poison is, he may go ahead and drink poison. The person who knows that poison kills and that inforamtion came to him for the very first time from an external source, and then using his wisdom he should not be drinking the poison.


In the same scenario, God has given us all the guidance/information we need to lead a successful life in his revelation of glorious Qur'an. Now its up to us how we use our wisdom, because ultimately, we will be rewarded or punished on the basis of our choices.

Choice is ours to choose either milk or poison or alcohol. If one choose to intoxicate himself and after that he is not in his senses and goes ahead and commit a murder and get away with it in this life time. He wont get away with it in after life, and will be punished on the judgement day. Similarly, if soneone gives his share of milk to poor, he may not get rewarded for that here in this world, but he will be certainly rewarded in the after life.

Humans does not commit crimes, based on the guidance/information, wisdom and fear of punishment. At the same time we do good deeds based on guidance/information, wisdom and to get reward. We may not get rewarded or punished in this life time, but wont get away in our afterlife.


Thanks for your efforts when the opportunity arrives I will ask a scholar.

If god has given us the option to CHOOSE in this case between poison and milk why can't we use our human wisdom to make that decision. Why do we need a message from god specially if the message contains rewards for chosing the milk and punishment for choosing poison. If the message is ABSOLUTE TRUTH then how can this be called "FREE WILL TO CHOSE"?, when the choice is made based on rewards or fear of punishment.

Thanks again.
 
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Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Whats the aim of this life that we have???????

where were we before our birth???

Where would we b , after our death ????

Dear samar, we muslims have different answers for these questions as compared to atheists. To them life is a meaningless accident and we should make most of it the while it lasts. We were in our mothers before our birth. We will be back into dust and that is it. There is no concept of life after death. You are dead then you are finished.

regards and all the best.
 

MileStone

MPA (400+ posts)
If God has decided that this event has to happen on Sep 27-2037 at 7.25am, then it would not happen a date/time before or after. The reason of keeping this random for us so that we would know, that death can come anytime and we should be prepared for it every second of life by doing good deeds and worshipping the Creator.

Regarding the second para, God knows 100% that what we will do but He is not forcing us to do any sins. You would argue, that if God already knows who is going to Hell and who is going to heaven then why this drama of us living in this world committing sins. If He knows in advance, simply throw the ones who are supposed to go to hell and send the good ones to heaven.

The reason is that, He is not giving us any chance to question his judgment. If He throws someone directly in Hell, that person would certainly ask question from God that why you are doing this to me, if You would have sent me to earth, I would not have committed sins and would have been a pious man.

On Judgment day, even the people who are being thrown away in Hell would agree that the judgment was right and they deserved to be sent to hell because of their sinful deeds.

Hope this helps.

God knows that Unicorn is going to die on Sep 27-2037 at 7.25am, unless god writes down this it may not happen at what point he writes down is it after Sep 27, 2037.

The teacher does not know who is going to pass and fail. He can predict based on his OBSERVATION while he was teaching based on the balance of probabilities and make a reasonable prediction. This prediction is never one hundred percent accurate and cannot be relied upon making a test an absolute necessity.
 

Unicorn

Banned
I think there is diversity of opinions here with different understanding.

If it is known today that Abdul will born in 2025 and die 2065 despite of his best efforts will not be rewarded. Is there anything Abdul can do to change that?

Those who says yes their opinions are different than those who say no and some mixed opinions.

I think I am a person who is difficult to convince because I was brought in religion there was a time I believed in it and it was questioning that stopped me from believing in it.
 

MileStone

MPA (400+ posts)
Why Abdul will not or cant be rewarded. According to your dates, Abdul has ample time i-e 40 years to do good deeds. If he does good deeds, he will be successful in this world and he will also be rewarded by God in after life. The only thing is that God already knows that which path he will choose. So along the way God may be sending signs to show him the right way, and then again it will depend on him to accept the God's way or go astray.


I think there is diversity of opinions here with different understanding.

If it is known today that Abdul will born in 2025 and die 2065 despite of his best efforts will not be rewarded. Is there anything Abdul can do to change that?

Those who says yes their opinions are different than those who say no and some mixed opinions.

I think I am a person who is difficult to convince because I was brought in religion there was a time I believed in it and it was questioning that stopped me from believing in it.
 

biomat

Minister (2k+ posts)
Dear UNICORN
I can understand your situation. Point is that even when you study you dont know the result but you try hard to study as much as you can, get tuition or extra help from seniors. So result is on ALLAH, ALLAH doesnot measure some one deeds on QUANTITY, ALLAH IS REHMAN & RAHEEM that is most loving. HE gives reward on QUALITY..
Try to think in this way & surely you will see the light.
If you dont believe in any GOD or religion that it is not as bad as some think. As one brother rightly said that one who doesnot believe in GOD or ALLAH is half way step from ISLAM. That is LA ILAHA (there is no god)..
Rest will come later insha ALLAH. That is LA ILAHA (there is no god) ILLALLAH (except ALLAH)..
So try your best to find the truth as QUALITY is most important than QUANTITY, keep that in mind.
We all will pray for you guys & for us also for HIDAYAT (true guidance)..
Jaza-k-ALLAH. (may ALLAH reward you).
Assalam-o-alaikum.
 

MileStone

MPA (400+ posts)
Thank Brother Biomat for comment.
I believe, Dr. Zakir Naik mentioned regrading you you said about the person not believeing in any God.

Dear UNICORN
I can understand your situation. Point is that even when you study you dont know the result but you try hard to study as much as you can, get tuition or extra help from seniors. So result is on ALLAH, ALLAH doesnot measure some one deeds on QUANTITY, ALLAH IS REHMAN & RAHEEM that is most loving. HE gives reward on QUALITY..
Try to think in this way & surely you will see the light.
If you dont believe in any GOD or religion that it is not as bad as some think. As one brother rightly said that one who doesnot believe in GOD or ALLAH is half way step from ISLAM. That is LA ILAHA (there is no god)..
Rest will come later insha ALLAH. That is LA ILAHA (there is no god) ILLALLAH (except ALLAH)..
So try your best to find the truth as QUALITY is most important than QUANTITY, keep that in mind.
We all will pray for you guys & for us also for HIDAYAT (true guidance)..
Jaza-k-ALLAH. (may ALLAH reward you).
Assalam-o-alaikum.
 

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