Karachi Night Club . Mummy Daddy's and Burgers enjoying western types of night clubs .

hawkkhan

MPA (400+ posts)
Can someone please confirm this? I am really confused. I don't think this is the truth.

witnesses are required for every crime. thats according to sharia. Pakistan dont have a sharia law.

As per my limited knowledge, you can impose the sharia law where its a islamic society.

you cannot impose a sharia law where Judiciary, police, and people all corrupt, people die for hunger and all sort of crime happening under government.
 

bedaar

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Dude, culture is a legacy gift handed to you by your ancestors. It is NOT an obligation.

Think of it this way, if you ancestors handed you a piece of land where they once used to grow crops, it you later find it useful to build a motorsport track over the same land to make a high return and better use out of it, then IT IS OKAY.

You can't just keep doing what your ancestors did 1400 years ago. That is what you call a rut and Muslims are stuck in it for almost a 1000 years now because of this kind of mentality.

I'm amazed at your word-choice of endorse and adopt. Dude, there is no such obligation. You can't 'shape' culture by force in a progressing society. Culture shapes itself like snowball rolling downhill.
Bro thats surely not an obligation but this is something we must OWN...and get your facts correct ! I didnt talk about the Islam and stuff but the culture and our culture has nothing to do with the religion.
and I am amazed how so called liberals like you twist the statements for their own good...snowball rolling downhill...shaping the culture...mentality...Muslims...1400 years...I mean come on boy grow up !
 

bedaar

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Wow. You sound like a practising Muslim and yet you are creating a joke of your own religion.

My source of information is from here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/people/features/ihavearightto/four_b/casestudy_art07.shtml

In there it says: ...In order to prove an absence of consent, however, a woman is required to provide four witnesses to the rape, a near impossible task...

Look dude, if you think BBC is wrong in their research then lets go together and sue them for libel and disinformation. It is very easy to do that here in the UK.

But I think you are wrong. You are creating your own fiction in the 'laws of allah'.

What a joke.
Dude you better read an authentic source...quoting your holy bbc won't help...conditions for zana bil raza and zana bil jabar are different and lets not confuse them...see ! you again trying to twist..so called liberals like you lose their minds when go abroad LOL
 

nvra911

MPA (400+ posts)
Dude you better read an authentic source...quoting your holy bbc won't help...conditions for zana bil raza and zana bil jabar are different and lets not confuse them...see ! you again trying to twist..so called liberals like you lose their minds when go abroad LOL

Dude, please read my whole point patiently and try to answer with logic. I know I use rough words but I am really frustrated about this backwardness that somehow we as Muslims think are have to follow. Please read my answer patiently and answer me with logic. You sound reasonable and civilised and I know you can answer my point with logic.



Firstly, LOL @ my holy book BBC. Really funny.

But on a serious note, I have researched Islamic Shari'ah Law and in that, for a woman to come forward with a complaint of rape, either the man must admit he raped her or the woman must bring four witnesses. In case she can't bring the four witnesses, then she is charged with 'bohtaan'. So basically there is no consequence for a man, for example, in a situation where DNA can prove that his d!ck was in a woman. Islamic Law must make the man responsible by asking him what the hell was his d!ck doing in another woman who's not married to him?

But no, the fanatic-fundamentalist-obsolete laws put all the responsibility on the woman - which is stupid.

I know why you are confused: For adultery there is also a requirement of four witnesses but it is also the same for rape too.

I am surprised at how Muslims would create deliberate confusion about stupidity of their law only to cover-up the injustice of it.

Lastly, the requirement for four witnesses or whether DNA is clear evidence or not, can be changed in Islamic Law. It is called 'Ijtihaad' which is part of Islam. Some laws are changeable in Islam. Like this one on rape punishment processing.

Stop confusing Islamic laws against rape with the unchangeable laws, for example, of 'shirk'. I can understand that law on shirk is unchangeable. But that's NOT the case for all Islamic laws.

I just hate it that reasonable people like you are still buying the fanatic BS - which encourages the Mullahs and Molvis to not review the stupidity of these laws via 'Ijtihaad'.

Please answer me with logic and patience. I would respect genuine debate as opposed to obsolete rhetoric.
 

Unicorn

Banned
Dude you better read an authentic source...quoting your holy bbc won't help...conditions for zana bil raza and zana bil jabar are different and lets not confuse them...see ! you again trying to twist..so called liberals like you lose their minds when go abroad LOL

 

ali-raj

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Wow. You sound like a practising Muslim and yet you are creating a joke of your own religion.

My source of information is from here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/people/features/ihavearightto/four_b/casestudy_art07.shtml

In there it says: ...In order to prove an absence of consent, however, a woman is required to provide four witnesses to the rape, a near impossible task...

Look dude, if you think BBC is wrong in their research then lets go together and sue them for libel and disinformation. It is very easy to do that here in the UK.

But I think you are wrong. You are creating your own fiction in the 'laws of allah'.

What a joke.

U are quoting BBC for Shariah Law!
Kindly, check out Dr Zakir Naik videos on Youtube or on his channel. Study some Islamic Books to understand the law, Not BBC.
What they are stating at their page is a law , as carried by the state. It isn't shariah.
If you are very keen to know about the Actual Law & how it should be practiced. Instead of studying BBC site. Read Bukhari Sharif. Easily available on net for you to study.
You won't get anything on silver platter. if you are looking for the truth, then get your facts straight. If a law is practiced wrongly, then it is the mistake of ppl enforcing it.
 
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ali-raj

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
BBC is a trust-able news source which reports on many matters.

It reported on Shari'ah law aspect of rape and its punishment.

What is wrong about that?

U are quoting BBC for Shariah Law!
Kindly, check out Dr Zakir Naik videos on Youtube or on his channel. Study some Islamic Books to understand the law, Not BBC.
What they are stating at their page is a law , as carried by the state. It isn't shariah.
If you are very keen to know about the Actual Law & how it should be practiced. Instead of studying BBC site. Read Bukhari Sharif. Easily available on net for you to study.
You won't get anything on silver platter. if you are looking for the truth, then get your facts straight. If a law is practiced wrongly, then it is the mistake of ppl enforcing it.
 

Sharjil Ahmad

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
I request all of you NOT TO ARGUE WITH THIS STUPID "nrva911".... Please. You guys are wasting your time. We dont need to give explanations to some Idiot anti-religion. Probably the most ignorant person i've seen on this site. And shame on the admin, who let such people say whatever they want. What an ignorant piece of s**t......
 

nvra911

MPA (400+ posts)
I request all of you NOT TO ARGUE WITH THIS STUPID "nrva911".... Please. You guys are wasting your time. We dont need to give explanations to some Idiot anti-religion. Probably the most ignorant person i've seen on this site. And shame on the admin, who let such people say whatever they want. What an ignorant piece of s**t......
Not once did I use unacceptable language, yet free-speech is being persecuted in excuse of muting my opinion.

Excellent going guys. Just excellent.

*facepalm* *facepalm* *facepalm*
 

Sharjil Ahmad

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Not once did I use unacceptable language, yet free-speech is being persecuted in excuse of muting my opinion.

Excellent going guys. Just excellent.

Don't try to be so innocent. And unacceptable language.....Thats another joke i heard from you. Scroll back and read your own messages. As I said, I'm done arguing on points. Now lets play the game on your terms. You deserve every bit of curse there is out there. Indeed you are well-deserving. Free speech.....What a joke. What do u know about free speech ? By the way, where do u live ? And what religion if any, u belong to ? My guess is u r somewhere in Utterpardesh or Gujrat. :P
 

nvra911

MPA (400+ posts)
Don't try to be so innocent. And unacceptable language.....Thats another joke i heard from you. Scroll back and read your own messages. As I said, I'm done arguing on points. Now lets play the game on your terms. You deserve every bit of curse there is out there. Indeed you are well-deserving. Free speech.....What a joke. What do u know about free speech ? By the way, where do u live ? And what religion if any, u belong to ? My guess is u r somewhere in Utterpardesh or Gujrat. :P
I'm from Rawalpindi. Born and brought up and proud of that. I love my land and its people.

I hate fanatics though.

I was born a Muslim to a regular / average Muslim family. I'm now an agnostic going on atheism.
 

Sharjil Ahmad

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
I'm from Rawalpindi. Born and brought up and proud of that. I love my land and its people.

I hate fanatics though.

I was born a Muslim to a regular / average Muslim family. I'm now an agnostic going on atheism.

Great ! Now it explains a whole lot. I guess someone did a poor job of raising a kid. I feel bad for you bro/sis. My prayers for you.......
 

Sharjil Ahmad

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
I'm from Rawalpindi. Born and brought up and proud of that. I love my land and its people.

I hate fanatics though.

I was born a Muslim to a regular / average Muslim family. I'm now an agnostic going on atheism.

Your love for the land and its people is evident from your views and comments. Don't fool no one. Oh, and let me mention this, according to recent surveys conducted by very liberal sources, more than 75% of young generation wants sharia laws to be implemented in Pakistan. The same sharia laws that you are whining about. So, I don't know who you represent. And you love ur land and people...hahaha.... Your crap just keeps getting better and better. I've started to enjoy the conversation with you
 

nvra911

MPA (400+ posts)
...more than 75% of young generation wants sharia laws to be implemented in Pakistan...
Yeh, and this is my point. Most of the youth is radicalised. Read this story here. Or about the Woolwich attacker. Or the two Chechen brothers in Boston. Or the sabre-rattling crazies behind the red-topi pied piper, Zaid Hamid.

Youth has been radicalised and the price they are paying is this: where in the rest of the world youth has a right to jobs, active social life, follow their interests in education and sports etc., in Pakistan, youth is frustrated and doesn't see a bright future.

In such dooms-scenario, populations normally become radicalised on their own. See the recent French, British or Greek right wing political parties gaining ground. However in Pakistan, we are accelerating that radicalising on steroids by 'fanaticise-ing' our next generation on extreme teachings of Islam.

I have no problem with any religion. People should follow or believe what ever they want. But when national life starts taking directions from extreme views of an ideology, which in Pakistan is done in the name of Islam, then I feel that I must raise voice.

But alas the weakest voice I've raised so far on a website like this one has met with such toxic resistance. We are a gone case, I think.
 

Junoon123

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
I don't understand so people are not suppose to enjoy? Funny we can't dance, sing, have fun, go out then what are we suppose to do?
We should have democracy people should be able to do anything and everything as long as they don't hurt others and i am not talking about feelings.
 

Hassan1967

MPA (400+ posts)
Enjoy PTI Karachi, do not pay heed to any stupid remarks. You joined and voted PTI for modernization (Jemima culture) otherwise their was nothing wrong with Jamat Islami. You will be tried by court, when caught. In posh areas this liberty is routine, so relax. Only threat for girls is brothers, who at time loose temperament on swapping and shot sister's boy friend. Drinks trolley is part of culture like tea trolley in posh areas. Enjoy nights, papa has left enough amount and factories. After all Jawani do not come again!
 

jawad_jd

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
True sign of a fanatic: He would regress everything and every topic to a mother, sister and daughter issue.

Dude, what is this sick obsession with mothers, sisters and daughters?

Western societies have learnt the civility that rather than caging women in 'burqas' - they treat women outside of family like they would want their family members to be treated. This is a civil way. Caging women like poultry IS NOT.

Of course, bad things happen here too. They will always happen in any human society, even in a small percentage at least. But caging women like poultry-farm stock is hardly a solution.

Please tell me something - if a teenage boy hangs out with a girl and behaves with her the same way he wants his sister to be treated by her friend - what is wrong in that? It's the perfect scenario of 'do unto others..'

But no, fanatics of Fundamentalistan will NOT be at ease until they have every women caged up like some poor poultry-farm lot.

LOL ... You are funny, aren't you ? Pretty little western boy ... One Urdu word can explain people like you "MUTASIR"... It doesn't matter if MUTASIR is Muslim, Christian or Hindu ... MUTASIR are dumb brain people found in every piece of land ... These are the people who take their education and inspiration from Hollywood and Television ... Modern culture doesn't even belong to western people, they picked it up from their media ... Even now majority of their population is against homosexuals but media tries to oppress their opinion by calling them Fanatics ... Your favorite word right ? I bet you learned it from TV ... MUTASIR only speak what they hear from TV, no original thought ... I have seen many MUTASIRS throughout my life from different countries, religions and skin colors ... They have only one thing common "HOLLYWOOD", whatever the Hollywood dictates they follow ... Piercing is cool, tattoos are awesome, Gays are cool ... LOL ... Enjoy your Hollywood life baby ..........
 
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jawad_jd

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
I request all of you NOT TO ARGUE WITH THIS STUPID "nrva911".... Please. You guys are wasting your time. We dont need to give explanations to some Idiot anti-religion. Probably the most ignorant person i've seen on this site. And shame on the admin, who let such people say whatever they want. What an ignorant piece of s**t......

YAAR ghussa kyoun karta hey ? Pehli dafa DESI GOREY sey baat hui hey kya ??? Aise bauhaut sey Pakistani aur Indian hein yahan jo pind sey europe pauhaunchte hi goron sey bhi zyada GORE ho jaate hein ... Inn ki chawalein sunno aur enjoy karo, tention lene ki zaroorat nahin ...
 

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