"Islamic Banking" is DOUBLE Haraam - Sheikh Umer Vadillo

[AsifAmeer]

Sorry dude.. OK! I'll try to explain Fractional reserve lending (a subject taught in detail in Masters) in a few lines here.

Let there be 3 people - You, me and the farmer. And let there be the only bank in town - MCB.

I deposit MY MONEY ($10,000) in a checking account at the MCB.
You want to buy the farm from the farmer for $9000.
You approach MCB for the loan. MCB lends you $9000 of MY money to you and collateralize the farm.
Farmer gets his $9000.

This is called Fractional reserve lending. Reserve ratio of 10%. (bank maintains 10%)

Now here is the problem.
You see I am counting that $10,000 as my money. and my business decisions are based on that knowledge.
You bought that farm for $9000 after calculating that you will make enough money from the farm to pay the land off in 10 yrs.
The farmer is the owner of cash. This is the same money I am counting as mine.

That was a micro problem. The macro problem is all our decisions (you, me, the farmer and the bank) are all inter-connected.
If I take a risk accordingly ($10k), when the bank has only reserved $1k for me, that could bust the bank. Bank forces a recall of its loan on the farm from you. Your sales of crops drop because prices have fallen due to the lack of money in the system. The farmer benefited the most because if it werent for the bank, farmer would have never been able to sell his farm for $9000. Bank created an "Artificial buyer" out of you for the farmer. Now the Bank owns the land, you owe the money and I am screwed on my deposit.


FRB is not the easiest to grasp. If it still remains to be a vague idea, watch this video

Dude, you are WAY too technical for me in this field. I just wish I could understand half the things you are saying, sigh. Why can't you speak in easy lingo for us Financial Dummies? :)

In the interim, can you kindly clarify what you mean by the below? Do you mean to say that you believe in a monetary system where the money-supply is not controlled? Is that even possible?

Thanks!

Originally Posted by AsifAmeer
You can have fractional lending even in Gold and silver. Its "Banking" not just paper currency.

The objective is not gold or silver but a controlled money-supply. Vadillo absolutely gets it. I just wanna applause this man to say it!​

 

[Aleph]

Got it. However, that would ALWAYS remain the problem, wouldn't it? This is the biggest challenge that Industrialization brought with it, really. The fact of the matter remains that no particular person can either have the expertise or the capital to do everything.

Now that you have introduced us to the PROBLEM the logical drift would be for you to suggest the FIX. You already have your thinking cap on so I am all ears...

Sorry dude.. OK! I'll try to explain Fractional reserve lending (a subject taught in detail in Masters) in a few lines here.

Let there be 3 people - You, me and the farmer. And let there be the only bank in town - MCB.

I deposit MY MONEY ($10,000) in a checking account at the MCB.
You want to buy the farm from the farmer for $9000.
You approach MCB for the loan. MCB lends you $9000 of MY money to you and collateralize the farm.
Farmer gets his $9000.

This is called Fractional reserve lending. Reserve ratio of 10%. (bank maintains 10%)

Now here is the problem.
You see I am counting that $10,000 as my money. and my business decisions are based on that knowledge.
You bought that farm for $9000 after calculating that you will make enough money from the farm to pay the land off in 10 yrs.
The farmer is the owner of cash. This is the same money I am counting as mine.

That was a micro problem. The macro problem is all our decisions (you, me, the farmer and the bank) are all inter-connected.
If I take a risk accordingly ($10k), when the bank has only reserved $1k for me, that could bust the bank. Bank forces a recall of its loan on the farm from you. Your sales of crops drop because prices have fallen due to the lack of money in the system. The farmer benefited the most because if it werent for the bank, farmer would have never been able to sell his farm for $9000. Bank created an "Artificial buyer" out of you for the farmer. Now the Bank owns the land, you owe the money and I am screwed on my deposit.


FRB is not the easiest to grasp. If it still remains to be a vague idea, watch this video

Originally Posted by AsifAmeer
You can have fractional lending even in Gold and silver. Its "Banking" not just paper currency.

The objective is not gold or silver but a controlled money-supply. Vadillo absolutely gets it. I just wanna applause this man to say it!​

 

[AsifAmeer]

Yes.. I bought that from e-toilet paper! Hey! its worth it!

Acha the interesting thing is, you can have fractional lending in Gold and silver too!

So its not what you use for a medium of exchange (money) but its the quantity of money in the economy. I dont wanna overwhelm you with dorky crap. Lekin eak kaam kero. Just read 2 articles I wrote. This will clarify your views on what exactly is MONEY.

"We Make it the Mighty Dollar" 1st para

"Understanding Inflation" 2nd para

Money itself has no intrinsic value. Its the goods/services you buy with it that gives money its value.

Which is why I have said that we are only in a PROCESS and not in an END-PRODUCT.

I agree with you that promissory notes as we have it today (not that promissory notes inherently are haram -- in fact they are halal and were regularized in the era of Sayyiduna Umar Ibn Al Khattab no less) are worth toilet paper. Even a financial dunce like me knows this much! However, this IS the current system and we have to find a way to operate as close to the Shari'ah as we can.

I am with you and hopeful that we revert back to gold/silver or some other form of basic currency that is REAL and not manipulative. But until then, yaara, we have to work with what we have. Apnay jo itni shaandar topi pehni huwi hai (baseball cap) aapnay isi 'toilet paper' say khareedi hogi na? Ya phir e-toilet paper (credit/debit card).

We are DRENCHED in a poisonous system that has the entire world by the balls. It will take time to change this and I am in agreement with you and @imran1976 that things are not hunky-dory. Not just yet at least.

 

[AsifAmeer]

>>because of our monies being in the hands of our enemies
Nahi nahi.. aysi baat nahi hai.. Mashallah we Muslims are in Power.. Check this out

This is Mohammed El Erian - the head of PIMCO - the world's largest Bond holding company managing $1.7 trillion.. yup.. $1.7 trillion!

And check this pimp out

Thats alwaleed bin talal.. the biggest partner in Citicorp and other banks.

Mashallah se we muslims are in control bhai.. and doing pretty well.. (sarcasm)

Do you know what the "theory of refexivity" is?

@imran1976:

You dodged the question - are you referring to personal or corporate banking? I will agree with you that the emphasis on Murabahah is more in personal banking (for example, buying of car, property etc). But that is JUST NOT the case in corporate banking! Have you tried investing in an Islamic bank? Moreover, do you even know how business is conducted from the pool of money by Islamic banks to businesses? And how the profit is shared with investors? It's all done on Musharakah, Mudarabah and Sukuk as I have told you. No Murabahah there whatsoever!

Yes, banks will misuse and tweak the advise of 'ulama because there is NO REGULATORY BODY for Islamic finance. Governments till date continue to work on the conventional system so we are stuck in this problem in the foreseeable future for now. How does that small fact rubbish the general idea of Islamic Economics that is STILL a system in its infancy (lest you forget)??

By the way, what do you with your money if you don't mind me asking (the libertarians @AsifAmeer and @mrk123 better not be watching!)? Where does your monthly salary go and how? Do you not have a bank account (be it even a simple checkings account)? How do you conduct money transfers over long distances?

If you do have a bank account I am pretty certain that you are banking with HSBC or one of the other 'global banks'. It is simply IMPOSSIBLE to live in the world today without a bank account (unless you live in the village compeltely cut off from the world). Even paper currency is not up-to-the-mark as far as its shar'i compliance goes. So, what, now you will tell me that you dont even use paper currency because it is HARAM?

Please get out of this simplistic, dichotomous world for your own good. If not for anything else, why can't you put your money in an Islamic Bank, which after all is controlled by Muslims (no matter how misguided or cunning they may be)? Half our problems today are because of our monies being in the hands of our enemies! Where do you think Zardari and Musharraf stack their ill-gotten cash? In Dubai Islamic Bank or the HSBCs or Standard Chartereds of the world?

Our rulers are pigs, I agree. But if not for a convicing Islamic argument, then put your money in the hands of your own people. It will only be a small part that you play in the self-reliance of the Muslim ummah. We are marching towards Islamic Governance and Khilafah and these are all small steps. Don;t try to be a party pooper and stress on the obvious disparities and prolong our stay in this rut!

 

[AsifAmeer]

I'll play Molana Tariq Jameel's card. "Masla emaan ki kami hai" ... lol

I dont know if you understand how right you are when stating that in bold. It has to do with the "Velocity of Money" and deflation in a static monetary system.

Solution : I dont have it! (bigsmile)

lol.. you really thought I was gonna write something hi-fi... hena? lol. Honestly, I dont have a fix. How could I! Look.. God created man.. then he created a woman to neutralize man. Man is upset. God reminds him thats the best a man can get for a rib. Now there's a tug of war man & woman in social-economics.

How can you possibly have a "policy" whose "subject" is as unstable and irrational as man and a woman?

Got it. However, that would ALWAYS remain the problem, wouldn't it? This is the biggest challenge that Industrialization brought with it, really. The fact of the matter remains that no particular person can either have the expertise or the capital to do everything.

Now that you have introduced us to the PROBLEM the logical drift would be for you to suggest the FIX. You already have your thinking cap on so I am all ears...

 

[Aleph]

I'll look up "theory of refexivity", but do enlighten. As for Walid bin Talal and the other idiot they are Muslim, yes, but very much part of the system. When I was referring to moving money in the hands of our own I meant anything but these idiots! It's unfortunate, though, the more I think about it the more I know that these idiots will be the ultimate beneficiaries of any system.

The facts of the matter are that we are living in a world where everything is relative. Dictatorship is often frowned upon in our age, but if you have a benevolent dictator at the helm then you are better off than a fully functional democracy! I think very often we Muslims tend to forget the afterlife. This world is only temporal and Walid et al can pimp it up all they want. What happens after it will be key.

Human life and systems are so delicate that it took only 60-odd years to completely change the face of governance as Rasulullah (SAW) had left it. Similarly, we could implement a very fair and just system and process, but we could be succeeded by a more treacherous generation who will use the same system and processes to spread injustice.

Kya depression phela raha hai bhai Amreeka main beth kar :P

 

[Aleph]

That's on the premise of Adam and Eve.

What would you say to those who believe in Adam and Steve? :P

I'll play Molana Tariq Jameel's card. "Masla emaan ki kami hai" ... lol

I dont know if you understand how right you are when stating that in bold. It has to do with the "Velocity of Money" and deflation in a static monetary system.

Solution : I dont have it! (bigsmile)

lol.. you really thought I was gonna write something hi-fi... hena? lol. Honestly, I dont have a fix. How could I! Look.. God created man.. then he created a woman to neutralize man. Man is upset. God reminds him thats the best a man can get for a rib. Now there's a tug of war man & woman in social-economics.

How can you possibly have a "policy" whose "subject" is as unstable and irrational as man and a woman?

 

[AsifAmeer]

you know I like Hasan Nisar and you broke that image for me.
I like Taqi Usmani and now u messing that up too..

U breakin my balls man..

I don't know why has it even being discussed in such a detail. I mean the possibility of Islamic Banking being halaal. Banking can't ever be halaal but as pork can be eaten when life is endangered and the person intends no sin or to treat his taste buds.

For Taqi Usmani heading shariat boards of banks, money makes the mare go mates, money makes the mare go. What can you expect from people who supported CIA-designed afghan jihad and proved that it was a war of Islam and of Pakistan.

 

[imran1976]

Yes, you may ask and you already did :P

That 20,000 extra is PROFIT MARGIN. It works on the simple principle that if I have something you want to buy I can sell it to you for any price I want and if it is mutually acceptable then the sale is closed.

Have you read and understood the Hadiths in post#29, they are directly related to this subject.

Your contract mentions cost+markup over x period of time and linking up markup with time delay in credit sale is Riba' - Now try to understand the difference, charging excess due to delay is allowed as it results in loss of value for the seller; however Islam doesn't permit stating the markup separately and only a single price including the markup should be expressed in the contract - You so pay 1,020,000 here also but it's different!

 

[Aleph]

[MENTION=24375]AsifAmeer[/MENTION]:

You should STILL like Mufti Taqi Uthmani. By the way, unki picture dekhi hai kabhi? If you haven't you are probably in for a shocker! Mujhe hairat hoti hai kay aisay logon kay liye Temojin jaisay log itni buray alfaaz isti'maal kartay hain? Jiss insaan ko apnay looks aur image key parwah nahin aur khaalisatan Allah key Raza kay liye kaam karta hai unko CIA ka agent kehdena Allah Ta'ala kay khilaaf baat karna hai. Ajeeb.

Dude, so what if the interests of the Americans converged with the interests of Muslims during the Afghan Jihad against the Russians? Why can't Temojin comment when the interests of the Americans is NOT converging with the Muslims? Us waqt sari commentaries bhool jatay hain? Like I said, just because Jews and Christian believe in Monotheism doesn't mean Monotheism is WRONG and we Muslims should become Polytheists or otherwise we are "CIA agents".

Aik toh iss ghisi phiti line say main aajiz hoon: Jissko dekho CIA ka agent hai! The CIA must have the biggest employee head count in the world!

 

[Aleph]

Like I said, you will lament over this fact all your life; what doesn't change is that it is HALAL and the 'ulama have stated it as such. Ab ya toh main 'ulama key baat sun loon ya aapki.

You are grossly misrepresenting the words of Imam Sarakhsi. I am going to check with some 'ulama on this before I get back to you. deen mazaaq nahin hai kay half-baked knowledge par aik opinion qaim kar lain aur online forums par phir shuru hojayain.

I already mentioned that you would read my words and scream foul and "HARAM...RIBA...".

Have you read and understood the Hadiths in post#29, they are directly related to this subject.

Your contract mentions cost+markup over x period of time and linking up markup with time delay in credit sale is Riba' - Now try to understand the difference, charging excess due to delay is allowed as it results in loss of value for the seller; however Islam doesn't permit stating the markup separately and only a single price including the markup should be expressed in the contract - You so pay 1,020,000 here also but it's different!

 

[AsifAmeer]

>>we Muslims tend to forget the afterlife
"In God we trust. The rest I audit!"

Democracy is a failed concept. Thats why you see "REPUBLICS" around the world. Even Pakistan is a republic, not a democracy.

I would love to create a new republic on the basis of this "Rights-and-Privileges"

Theory of Reflexivity is a way to understand reactions of actions. For e.g. Chemistry.. You mix 2 acids and you get a reaction. You can predict a result. Why? because 2 acids always behave and react the same way. Here, the "subject" does not have a conscious.

But if you take Economics, or biology, where the "subject" is a conscious being, observing the result in itself affect the result.

Didnt care much about Bio, lekin its implications on Economics and Macro-Econ are mind-bending. For eg. we always hear, supply & demand sets prices. Not completely true. There's a 3rd factor - expectation. If you know the prices for petrol are rising, you will try to get your tank full even when you do not need petrol immediately. Many ppl taking that decision will itself feed the rising price frenzy. And so on..


[MENTION=12754]cefspan[/MENTION] may be interested too as it pertains to bio too.

I'll look up "theory of refexivity", but do enlighten. As for Walid bin Talal and the other idiot they are Muslim, yes, but very much part of the system. When I was referring to moving money in the hands of our own I meant anything but these idiots! It's unfortunate, though, the more I think about it the more I know that these idiots will be the ultimate beneficiaries of any system.

The facts of the matter are that we are living in a world where everything is relative. Dictatorship is often frowned upon in our age, but if you have a benevolent dictator at the helm then you are better off than a fully functional democracy! I think very often we Muslims tend to forget the afterlife. This world is only temporal and Walid et al can pimp it up all they want. What happens after it will be key.

Human life and systems are so delicate that it took only 60-odd years to completely change the face of governance as Rasulullah (SAW) had left it. Similarly, we could implement a very fair and just system and process, but we could be succeeded by a more treacherous generation who will use the same system and processes to spread injustice.

Kya depression phela raha hai bhai Amreeka main beth kar :P

 

[AsifAmeer]

>>That's on the premise of Adam and Eve.
Chor to ab jaanay do.. galti ho gai na.. Jaan booch k to nahi ki thi na.. Sab ki begum se galti hoti hai. Aur phir Shohar ko bhi sunna parhta hai!

>>What would you say to those who believe in Adam and Steve?
continue.. sooner or later.. they will understand the bounds of common-sense gravity. I see it as a cleanup of the human gene-pool.

That's on the premise of Adam and Eve.

What would you say to those who believe in Adam and Steve? :P

 

[AsifAmeer]

I have this amazing quality of liking and disliking the same person at the same moment.. based on ideas and principles.

I never understood the concept of mortal gods.

I have seen Taqi sahab. I bet he took the term "wisdom tooth" literally and never got rid of them!

@AsifAmeer:

You should STILL like Mufti Taqi Uthmani. By the way, unki picture dekhi hai kabhi? If you haven't you are probably in for a shocker! Mujhe hairat hoti hai kay aisay logon kay liye Temojin jaisay log itni buray alfaaz isti'maal kartay hain? Jiss insaan ko apnay looks aur image key parwah nahin aur khaalisatan Allah key Raza kay liye kaam karta hai unko CIA ka agent kehdena Allah Ta'ala kay khilaaf baat karna hai. Ajeeb.

Dude, so what if the interests of the Americans converged with the interests of Muslims during the Afghan Jihad against the Russians? Why can't Temojin comment when the interests of the Americans is NOT converging with the Muslims? Us waqt sari commentaries bhool jatay hain? Like I said, just because Jews and Christian believe in Monotheism doesn't mean Monotheism is WRONG and we Muslims should become Polytheists or otherwise we are "CIA agents".

Aik toh iss ghisi phiti line say main aajiz hoon: Jissko dekho CIA ka agent hai! The CIA must have the biggest employee head count in the world!

 

[Temojin]

Thanks for your ignorance, Temojin. Shaykh Taha Karaan sits on the advisory board of ABSA (one of South Africa's LARGEST banks) Islamic Banking. Do you know what his monthly 'salary' is for the services he is rendering? ZAR (South African Rands) 4,000 only!

To anyone who has been anywhere NEAR South Africa will tell you how that is PEANUTS. Do you know what advisory board members make in such positions? In South African Rands, they mint rands in the 100,000+ per month!

So, no, money doesnt make the mare go, mate. Some people do it only for the Rida of Allah (SWT) and to move the Ummah towards the laws of Allah slowly and steadily. Take your simplistic superstitions some place else. There is a WORLD of difference between Rida and Riba. :)

And while you are at it, can you kindly tell us what bank your money is safely sitting in?

No! I don't have my money deposited at any bank at all. Don't be emotional mate. and No! don't get even more emotional now.

you know I like Hasan Nisar and you broke that image for me.
I like Taqi Usmani and now u messing that up too..

U breakin my balls man..

Kia keroon yaar :( On a serious note, people who still call TTP an asset of the Islamic world (who butcher innocent people in public like animals and ironically, reciting takbeer), who have been taking loads of money from CIA during 80s while exporting young blokes for jihad in Afghanistan. I say the youngsters who went for jihad were actually in for it as they didn't know anything but what they were told but the controllers like him and many others exactly knew what was going on from the hoax of USSR wanting our "warm" waters (as it was starving and didn't have any other harbour to trade from) to triggering a jihad where moulana henry kissinger or the US ambassador would deliver a motivational jihadi speech and these people would be smiling and all ears trying to get the closest seat. Moreover, if people like us know that Islamic banking being practised these days isn't correct, why wouldn't he know that but still on shariyyat board of banks and for sure not providing his services Allah wastay. Rest you can well imagine. You can contact Cowas ji and ask about the role of this particular school of thought in destabilizing our country till now.

 

[Unicorn]

I have this amazing quality of liking and disliking the same person at the same moment.. based on ideas and principles.

I never understood the concept of mortal gods.

I have seen Taqi sahab. I bet he took the term "wisdom tooth" literally and never got rid of them!

[hilar][hilar]Another one for the book.

 

[AsifAmeer]

Asking Cowasjee about any "Mulla" is never ever a good idea. Either you're gonna learn a million new cuss words or Cowasjee is gonna have a heart attack.

I just hope in the corner of my heart k Taqi Usmani didnt do it intentionally.

Lekin, I am gonna gather courage and write an article as an open letter to the Ulema and send it to Tribune and news.

No! I don't have my money deposited at any bank at all. Don't be emotional mate. and No! don't get even more emotional now.



Kia keroon yaar :( On a serious note, people who still call TTP an asset of the Islamic world (who butcher innocent people in public like animals and ironically, reciting takbeer), who have been taking loads of money from CIA during 80s while exporting young blokes for jihad in Afghanistan. I say the youngsters who went for jihad were actually in for it as they didn't know anything but what they were told but the controllers like him and many others exactly knew what was going on from the hoax of USSR wanting our "warm" waters (as it was starving and didn't have any other harbour to trade from) to triggering a jihad where moulana henry kissinger or the US ambassador would deliver a motivational jihadi speech and these people would be smiling and all ears trying to get the closest seat. Moreover, if people like us know that Islamic banking being practised these days isn't correct, why wouldn't he know that but still on shariyyat board of banks and for sure not providing his services Allah wastay. Rest you can well imagine. You can contact Cowas ji and ask about the role of this particular school of thought in destabilizing our country till now.

 

[Aleph]

[MENTION=23319]Temojin[/MENTION]:

So how do you make payments to your Internet Service Provider? Kisko ullu banatay ho?

Like I told you STOP your CIA bakwas and start commenting on why the same jihadis whom you call "CIA agents" are now fighting the Americans? Haven't you seen video footages of Jalaluddin Haqqani in the White House? Today he is fighting this same entity. So where is all your CIA nonsense now? And for your kind information, these mujahideen were fighting the Soviets long before the Americans came into the party. Just like the mujahideen were fighting the Serbs long before NATO decided to help the Bosnians. What kind of ludicrous simplistic world do you live in?

And you mention Ardeshir Cowasjee as he is a historian and who has all the facts at his disposal. That alone is enough to make a mockery out of everything you have been saying up till now.

Sorry, man, I have very little patience for people who construct world opinions on conspiracy theories. I swear, even bollywood flicks have more consistency and coherency compared to some of the crap I have to read on this forum.

 

[Temojin]

I have this amazing quality of liking and disliking the same person at the same moment.. based on ideas and principles.

I never understood the concept of mortal gods.

I have seen Taqi sahab. I bet he took the term "wisdom tooth" literally and never got rid of them!

Asking Cowasjee about any "Mulla" is never ever a good idea. Either you're gonna learn a million new cuss words or Cowasjee is gonna have a heart attack.

I just hope in the corner of my heart k Taqi Usmani didnt do it intentionally.

Lekin, I am gonna gather courage and write an article as an open letter to the Ulema and send it to Tribune and news.

hahahaha, on man, I really had a laugh. Wisdom tooth, hahaha.

On a serious note, he did it intentionally. They work for money literally. You'd be amazed if I delved more into their history. Aur can you do one thing for me? Yaar yeh aleph bhai jese supermen ko meri taraf se keh dia kero mein kamzor dil ka admi hoon, zara apni zuban ko had mein rakkha kerein :) Chalo mein hee keh deta hoon. phir nahi kahoonga kionke yeh badmuash ban jayega zara dekhna.

[MENTION=28031]Aleph[/MENTION] Bhai yeh jo badzubani hai na yeh acchi cheez nahi hoti, internet pe mufeed hai barhak maarne ko magar asl zindagi mein mere jesa sarphira scene kharab ker dega. TTP is not fighting the Americans, SSP is not fighting americans, no LeJ is also not fighting them and Haqqani, who said that he is clean? He is only fighting his war for survival like amreeka bahadur treats its servants when done with getting intended benefits. You don't need to tell me if Afghans were fighting soviets or not, they were fighting tribal wars and it turned into jihad only when moulana henry kissinger came in the picture and provided his design. None can distort these facts. You might have little patience for anything but please don't reflect it here as it doesn't help. If you think I utter crap, stay silent or if you want to comment at all, don't go with language that actually reflects crap. I personally know these facts mate. If we go according to your theory and say that american-funded jihad was right, do let me know that the same people working for the same money are doing wrong now? Or if they were wrong at that moment in time, why would people like usmani help them? Looks like you are still at the age when a single punch is enough to break a castle's wall, no worries. Mere bhai, if you want it, you can visit the khans of north waziristan tal'l where they would tell you the actual story. Or if you happen to go to moscow, I can get your meeting arranged with Arif Khan, younger brother of khan of tal'l who would amaze you with facts. No matter what you say, I will criticize usmani abb taang tor do meri (bigsmile). I will unveil the acts they have been doing and there is nothing you can do to stop me. bhai fortunately or unfortunately I know a lots and lots of people from Mansoorah to Communist party of Pakistan and from serving generals to big-mouthed journalists here.

Did I issue any fatwah about conventional banking or Islamic banking? Just said that banking isn't right in the first place and that usmani being a so called knowledgeable man, knows a lot more about it so why would he be on shariyyat panels of private banks. Oh! I forgot, he knows how to make money halaal, right? Aap abb gusse mein na aana, not good for health my mate.

 

[cefspan]

>>we Muslims tend to forget the afterlife
"In God we trust. The rest I audit!"

Democracy is a failed concept. Thats why you see "REPUBLICS" around the world. Even Pakistan is a republic, not a democracy.

I would love to create a new republic on the basis of this "Rights-and-Privileges"

Theory of Reflexivity is a way to understand reactions of actions. For e.g. Chemistry.. You mix 2 acids and you get a reaction. You can predict a result. Why? because 2 acids always behave and react the same way. Here, the "subject" does not have a conscious.

But if you take Economics, or biology, where the "subject" is a conscious being, observing the result in itself affect the result.

Didnt care much about Bio, lekin its implications on Economics and Macro-Econ are mind-bending. For eg. we always hear, supply & demand sets prices. Not completely true. There's a 3rd factor - expectation. If you know the prices for petrol are rising, you will try to get your tank full even when you do not need petrol immediately. Many ppl taking that decision will itself feed the rising price frenzy. And so on..


@cefspan may be interested too as it pertains to bio too.

Economics Is A Science.. -_- Mind Boggling :D