Is wearing a tie in Islam Haram?

[taul]

Again your sentence seems to convey something, and needs clarification a bit:
a) In a way, the whole of Quran is the Book of Hadith, here is the Quranic refernce:
................??????? ??????? ???????? ?????????? ????????
http://www.quraneasyurdu.net/ps23/ch23zj.html#23" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The whole of Quran reached us through the tongue of our Prophet(PBUH), so he said it and we got it then.

b) Apart from Quran, what people attribute to our Prophet(PBUH) as having "said" and written in other books other than Quran, needs to be screened through Quran.
My only point of discussion is that "Screen everything through Quran", I am in no way against the work of those highly reputed personalities. I do not reject or accept their work "BLINDLY".

---Brother i do not want to assume anything regarding you that's the only reason i'm asking simple details,so what exactly do you follow of our Holy Prophet ( Peace be upon him) then apart from The Holy Quran that was revealed to our beloved Prophet (Peace be upon him).

 

[babadeena]

Again your sentence seems to convey something, and needs clarification a bit:
a) In a way, the whole of Quran is the Book of Hadith, here is the Quranic refernce:
................??????? ??????? ???????? ?????????? ????????
http://www.quraneasyurdu.net/ps23/ch23zj.html#23" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The whole of Quran reached us through the tongue of our Prophet(PBUH), so he said it and we got it then.

b) Apart from Quran, what people attribute to our Prophet(PBUH) as having "said" and written in other books other than Quran, needs to be screened through Quran.
My only point of discussion is that "Screen everything through Quran", I am in no way against the work of those highly reputed personalities. I do not reject or accept their work "BLINDLY".

---Brother i do not want to assume anything regarding you that's the only reason i'm asking simple details,so what exactly do you follow of our Holy Prophet ( Peace be upon him) then apart from The Holy Quran that was revealed to our beloved Prophet (Peace be upon him).

Oh would that I may be able to follow Quran in its totality, what else you think then it will remain to be followed except Quran? just curious to know from you, Brother!!!

 

[taul]

Oh would that I may be able to follow Quran in its totality, what else you think then it will remain to be followed except Quran? just curious to know from you, Brother!!!

--Brother like following the Sunnah in our daily lives in prayers ,eating, Musafaha,cutting nails,taking bath,how to drink water,how much to eat,Moonsighting and so on and so forth :) coz Our Prophet (Peace be upon him) showed us every aspect of life the way it needs to be done by any muslim :)

 

[gazoomartian]

Mr. Patriot said:

Mr.such bolo,agar Ap waqi yeh guthee suljhana chahte hien tau pehle yeh maloom karo k masjid ka istamaal kia tha Hazoor S kay zamane mien.Koi baat nahiN thoRi si mehnat khud bhi kar lo.
Achha yeh bataaeN k dunya kay masayl kahaN beTh kar hal kiye jaare thay?LogooN ko zulm se nijaat ke mansoobe kahan bante thay? Jang ke liye afwaaj kaha se rukhsat hoti thi?
Aise hi aur bahot se sawalat ke jawab talash karo tau salat ka mutlab bhi samjh jao ge.
Allah TeAla kahte hien salat qaym karo Ap kahte hien namaz paRho.Faraq tau he na.

lahual-i-wa la quwwat, kya baat hai aap logon ki bhi. Bhai jaan, arabi mein SALAT, Urdu mein NAMAZ, seedhi si baat. English mein prayer. Ub jo English muslaman hain woh namaz ne perhein key Qur'an mein to SALAT hay PRAYER nahee lihaza hum nahee parhtey....

I met a Pakistani brother who had some family issues. I suggested he does prayers and read Qur'an and do du'a, inshaAllah he would benefit.

He steadfastly said: agar qur'an Urdu mein nazil hoti to main zaroor parhta. Astaghfirullah

To bhai, her zamaney mein musalmano mein kuch log aisey hotey hain jo sawal karkey 'wa yesaloonaka' ki misdaq hotey. Allah hum subko taufiq dey key woh deen per beghair choon-o-chera key yaqeen karein, ameen

 

[gazoomartian]

@babadeena

a) The word "Hadith" has been used in Quran in many places, where it is written that
you have to follow "Hadith". Now please do not take the cover of words "Ateeho".[/quote
So what's your understanding of '??????????? ??????? ??????????? ?????????? '?

b) No one deny that "institution of Hadith" is disputed and carries a question mark? so it is important to screen all Hadiths through Quran.

No, there is no question mark at all.
Muhadeseen (Experts of Hadeeth and Ilmur-Rijaal) has already done the classification of ahadeeth. And Mujtahedeen and Fuqhah (Experts of Fiqh) know very well hadeeth of which Class can be used to where. There is no confusion, so common ppl dont need to take any tension of screening, as it has already been done.

c) All differences in Islamic Ummah are due to "Hadiths", you accept it or not but it is the biggest reality.

Subhan`Allah - do you know what are you saying???
And in your eyes, only solution of removing the differences is to leave the ahadeeth. (naozobillah)

d) One Hadiths, Believers had/have not united it is the only "Quran" which can unite whole of Islamic Ummah.

From the same Quran, need and importance of Sunnah and Ijmaa' are proved.

e) Show me a Hadith, in which the present day Salaat--- starting from the words "Subhanakalahuma till the last word which we recite--- is there. It is has to only one Hadith and "agreed upon all".

Why is it necessary that 'It has to only one Hadith' ?

Brother abduttawwab, i know the group of babadeena and patriot, they are follower of Ghulam Ahmed Pervaiz and he was one of the Rejectors of Hadeeth...but they have got very tricky mind...when will be stuck they would accept hadeeth to explain quran but when every they would want they will categorically deny accepting Sunnah/Hadeeth.

@babdeena... what is your stance on Hadeeth? is it neccessary to understand Quran????

bro suchbolo,
I understand that; What I want to learn is how the idiotic concept of leaving other foundations of Islam (Sunnah, Ijmaa, Qiyas) and relying only on translation of Holy Quran created.
I'll insha`Allah try to compile a separate article on these misconceptions.

Those who do not know how to read quran fluently, OR do not understand thoroughly, OR have trouble believing in quran for their own reasons, they rely on hadeeth.... I have a brotehr right here, my neighbor, he is a Haji, very pious person but relies on hadeeth more than Qur'an. He knows only few small Surahs for Salat

 

[babadeena]

Oh would that I may be able to follow Quran in its totality, what else you think then it will remain to be followed except Quran? just curious to know from you, Brother!!!

--Brother like following the Sunnah in our daily lives in prayers ,eating, Musafaha,cutting nails,taking bath,how to drink water,how much to eat,Moonsighting and so on and so forth :) coz Our Prophet (Peace be upon him) showed us every aspect of life the way it needs to be done by any muslim :)

Sure no argument over that!!

 

[GeoG]

Gazoo Sahib,
I have been very keenly following the debate and may I kindly request you stay out of this debate. Let it reach towards a merging point.
What your neighbor does and says is nothing to do with these learned brothers, humbly request you to please let them continue.
Thanks.

 

[taul]

Sure no argument over that!!

--Brother,don't get me wrong,just wondering you could may be correct me about "Eid" or "Moonsighting" mentioned in The Holy Quran??I could very well be wrong here :|

 

[gazoomartian]

Gazoo Sahib,
I have been very keenly following the debate and may I kindly request you stay out of this debate. Let it reach towards a merging point.
What your neighbor does and says is nothing to do with these learned brothers, humbly request you to please let them continue.
Thanks.

Sometimes examples are necessary as ... qur'an is full of tamseels (examples, or namoona)....never mind

I will shut up and sit in the corner. Mums is the word. :D

 

[GeoG]

Gazoo Sahib,
I have been very keenly following the debate and may I kindly request you stay out of this debate. Let it reach towards a merging point.
What your neighbor does and says is nothing to do with these learned brothers, humbly request you to please let them continue.
Thanks.

Sometimes examples are necessary as ... qur'an is full of tamseels (examples, or namoona)....never mind

I will shut up and sit in the corner. Mums is the word. :D

Thank you very much, Gazoo Sahib.

 

[gazoomartian]

Gazoo Sahib,
I have been very keenly following the debate and may I kindly request you stay out of this debate. Let it reach towards a merging point.
What your neighbor does and says is nothing to do with these learned brothers, humbly request you to please let them continue.
Thanks.

Sometimes examples are necessary as ... qur'an is full of tamseels (examples, or namoona)....never mind

I will shut up and sit in the corner. Mums is the word. :D

Thank you very much, Gazoo Sahib.

only reason I stopped cus I like you. I have just as much right to interject as any body else. But I aint gonna....

By the way, 'hadeeth' key do mafhoom hotey hain. Lughvi m'ani hai 'byan' or 'kisi ka kaha hua'

But in colliqual arabic HADEETH means a 'saying uttered thru the zaban of Muhammad (s.a.w.)' This became so common that the literal meaning disapeared....

Now I am going back to the corner or may be I will listen to a qir'at or two on you tube :D :D adios amigos

 

[babadeena]

Sure no argument over that!!

--Brother,don't get me wrong,just wondering you could may be correct me about "Eid" or "Moonsighting" mentioned in The Holy Quran??I could very well be wrong here :|

Well Eid in Quran mentioning as a word it is, here is the verse:
????? ?????? ????? ???????? ?????????? ???????? ??????? ????????? ????????? ????? ?????????? ??????? ????? ?????? ????????????? ?????????? ??????? ?????? ???????????? ??????? ?????? ?????????????
http://www.quraneasyurdu.net/ps07/ch07f.html#114" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This is the only verse or place in whole of quran where the word Eid is use.
Our Eid is different i.e. Eid-ful-Fitr. No dispute over that. All kind of believers
are unanimous over it. So no question of arguing or disputing this festival.

Moonsighting:
There is verse also about that, I am not remembering its exact translation but like this "They ask You about new Moon, they are for measurement or counting of months", if u wish I can check and given you exact reference.

thanks.

 

[babadeena]

adios amigos

No se si usted sabtes solamente este dos plavaras de espanial ou que mas, pero qual quer case "espera y mira" lo que estas pasar. Antonces vamos ver!!!!

 

[taul]

Well Eid in Quran mentioning as a word it is, here is the verse:
????? ?????? ????? ???????? ?????????? ???????? ??????? ????????? ????????? ????? ?????????? ??????? ????? ?????? ????????????? ?????????? ??????? ?????? ???????????? ??????? ?????? ?????????????
http://www.quraneasyurdu.net/ps07/ch07f.html#114" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This is the only verse or place in whole of quran where the word Eid is use.
Our Eid is different i.e. Eid-ful-Fitr. No dispute over that. All kind of believers
are unanimous over it. So no question of arguing or disputing this festival.

Moonsighting:
There is verse also about that, I am not remembering its exact translation but like this "They ask You about new Moon, they are for measurement or counting of months", if u wish I can check and given you exact reference.

--Jazak-Allah khair brother for that but in such a verse i believe it is meant for something else (Maana-o-Salwa) and is depicting Hazrat Eesa (Alaihis-Salaam) and we do not get to see the "Eids" as we celebrate,so if you could recall any such verse being revealed to our Beloved Prophet (Peace be upon him) for our source of celebrations??

 

[such bolo]

Bismillah ir Rahman ir Raheem

1)
I asked very simple questions to Mr. babadeena...

Allah says in Quran:

"Similarly (to complete My Blessings on you) We have sent among you a Messenger (Muhammad S.A.W) of your own, reciting to you Our Verses (the Qur'n) and purifying you, and teaching you the Book (the Qur'n) and the Hikmah, and teaching you that which you used not to know".

( Chapter Baqarah v: 151)

there are numrous other verses in quran with the same almost same wordings...now my question is that Allah has mentioned following tasks or responsibilities of Prophet Muhammad (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) in the above ayah:

1) reciting to you Our Verses (the Qur'n)
2) purifying you
3) teaching you the Book (the Qur'n)
4) teaching the Hikmah
5) teaching you that which you used not to know.

My question to babadeena:

What is the difference between reading/reciting Quran and teaching the Quran??
what is the difference between reciting/reading quran and purifying?
what is the difference between teaching the Hikmah and reciting/reading the Quran?

We (muslims) believe that all the above 4 things mentioned in the above Aayah except Reading/Reciting the quran can only be accessed through Ahadeeth (sayings, actions and silent approvals of Prophet Muhammad (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam)....

To believe in Prophet Muhammad (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) also means to believe that he was the Teacher of Quran and if you dont believe Prophet Muhammad (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) as Teacher of Quran then you are actually rejecting Quran.

Without the teachings of Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) Quran can not be understood at all.

2)
Allah says in Quran:

?????? ?????? ?????????? ????????? ???????? ???? ? ????????????? (???

Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr and surely, We will guard it (9)
Chapter 15 verse 9

What is the exact meaning of Dhikr??? why Allah has used the word "dhikr" instead of "Quran"... what is the difference between "Dhikr" and "Quran"....

We (muslims) believe that Quran is "Dhikr" and Hadeeth is also "Dhikr"...

linguisitc meaning of Dhikr is "rememberence" "Naseeha/Advice" which covers both Quran and Hadeeth..The word "dhikr" includes the teachings (ahadeeth) of Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) too.

????? ??????? ???? ?????????? (???) ???? ???? ?????? ??????? ??????? (???) ????????? ? ??????? ?????????(???

Nor does he speak of (his own) desire. (3) It is only a Revelation revealed. (4) He has been taught (this Qur'n) by one mighty in power [Jibril (Gabriel)] (5)

Chapter AlNajem v: 3-5

in the above ayah it is clearly mentioned that Prophet Muhammad (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) did not talk (of course in the matters of Deen) any thing but reveleation, therefore, we beleive that the Ahadeeth/Teachings of Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) are also Reveleation.

We also believe that Quran was not the only Reveleation but our Prophet Muhammad (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) used to receive Reveleation other than quran and that is Hadeeth... I can cite many examples from Quran to prove it.

Now...as we have already discussed that Quran can not be understood without the Teacher of the Quran.....and Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) was the official Teacher of the AlQuran (Sahib e Quran) appointed by Allah (subhanawuta'allah) as mentioned in the Verse 151 of Capter AlBaqarah, therefore, just guarding the words of Quran does not serve the purpose if teachings/meanings of Quran are not secured/guarded....

Thats is why we say that that there are thousand of verses which can not be explained without the teachings of Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) and teachings of Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) are well preserved and guarded and alhamdulillah very easy to follow... if someone wants...

Few things which are mentioned in Quran but no detail is given in Quran and these things can not be explained without teachings of Prophet (sallala laahu alaihi wasallam)

1) Salat
(how many times? how to perform? who to perform? Wodho!!! Ghusl!!! other conditions like what to do in case of Travellers and what to do if a woman is having her periods etc etc.)

2) Soum (Roza)
(same issues as in Salat)

3) Zakat
(how much? who to give? when to give? every year? every month? etc etc.)

4) Hujj

5) Umrah

6) Salat ul Janaza

7) Ehkamul Qaber

8) Salatul Jummah

etc etc.

 

[babadeena]

--Jazak-Allah khair brother for that but in such a verse i believe it is meant for something else (Maana-o-Salwa)

(Maano-o-Salwa) is another subject. Nothing to do with this verse.

and is depicting Hazrat Eesa (Alaihis-Salaam)

Yes this narration is related to Hazrat Eesa (as). True.

and we do not get to see the "Eids" as we celebrate,so if you could recall any such verse being revealed to our Beloved Prophet (Peace be upon him) for our source of celebrations??

These are not the only one, there are other things also like:
a) Shabe-Baraat; (No mention whatsoever by this name in Quran).
b) Dajjal ; (No mention whatsoever of this name)
c) Eid-Milad-un-Nabi; (No mention at all)
d) Return of Essa (as) (no mention except that people out of context quote a verse, and that is not the case). and so and so and so.
e) Soaim (Third day of Dead, Forty day(Chaleeswahan) etc. etc.
If by any chance, a question is creeping in your mind, that why we celebrate the Eids when there is no source of information except Hadith or traditions, then may be!!!!!!!!! Then again we celebrate so many things, perhaps there will be no mention at all even in Hadiths like Mahandi dance on marriage,

 

[taul]

These are not the only one, there are other things also like:
a) Shabe-Baraat; (No mention whatsoever by this name in Quran).
c) Eid-Milad-un-Nabi; (No mention at all)
e) Soaim (Third day of Dead, Forty day(Chaleeswahan) etc. etc.
If by any chance, a question is creeping in your mind, that why we celebrate the Eids when there is no source of information except Hadith or traditions, then may be!!!!!!!!! Then again we celebrate so many things, perhaps there will be no mention at all even in Hadiths like Mahandi dance on marriage,

--Brother the verse clearly mentions the reason for using the word "eid" in that ayat so the context is very clear here. it's true that's my point,i do not consider any of the things you mentioned above to be part of Islam ( unnecessary occasions and celebrations and all that different setups) except ofcourse return of Hazrat Eeesa (Alaihis-Salaam) and dajjal,but my point is your focus stems from the fact that "there has to be specific mention of things to be followed" the reason i asked on "Eid" which is celebrated by all muslims through out the world.I was just wondering if you celebrate,so then what exactly you think of the reason behind it?

 

[babadeena]

but my point is your focus stems from the fact that "there has to be specific mention of things to be followed"

It is your conclusion from my discussion or I have said it somewhere in any post?

the reason i asked on "Eid" which is celebrated by all muslims through out the world.I was just wondering if you celebrate,so then what exactly you think of the reason behind it?

I think these are "practices" traveling through generations to generations, I am also of no exception. Since it is being celebrated by "all muslims through out the world", that is fantastic. At least we, muslims, are agreed on the "festivals of eid", although differ when and how.
Let us close this discussion which was about "wearing a tie in Islam". Tie is not a part and parcel of address. If we can object to tie, then what about double breast type coat and bell-bottom type pantloon. So we should not drag religion in such matters, unless it is flagrant violation. Everybody will agree that "the circumstances prevailing at the time of our Prophet(PBUH) were entirely different than what we have in these days". At that time, neither ties were there, nor computers,.
It was a pleasure to discuss with you, the way of making the post concise, brief and to the point merits admiration and fetches the attention. May Allah bless U, and hope that our discussion on some other topic will continue on this board.

 

[patriot]

What is the reason that we celebrate Eid? Find the answer in 10:57-58.

????????????? ???????? ???? ?????????? ???????????? ???? ?????????? ?????????? ?????? ??? ?????????? ???????? ??????????? ???????????????? (????) ???? ???????? ??????? ??????????????? ??????????? ??????????????? ???? ??????? ??????? ??????????? (????
O mankind! There hath come to you a admonition from your Lord and a healing for the (diseases) in your hearts and for those who believe, a Guidance and a Mercy. (57) Say: "In the Bounty of Allah and in His Mercy? in that let them rejoice": that is better than the (wealth) they hoard. (58)

Is wearing a tie in Islam Haram? Read 10:59 and think who is allowed to declare something lawful or unlawful.
???? ??????????? ???? ??????? ??????? ????? ???? ???????? ??????????? ??????? ????????? ???????????? ???? ????????? ?????? ???????? ???? ????? ??????? ??????????? (????
Say (O Muhammad ): "Tell me, what provision Allh has sent down to you! And you have made of it lawful and unlawful." Say (O Muhammad ): "Has Allh permitted you (to do so), or do you invent a lie against Allh?" (59)

This should end the discussion.

 

[taul]

--Jazak-Allah khair brother babadeena for your understanding and i appreciate your kind words the purpose was as you said,i'll quote you

I have asked them, that Naoozubilla "was Allah in short of words, (specially when their favourite arabic word "Hadith" has been used 28 times in Quran, ) that they have to justify their stance by another word i.e. "atteho".

this is what i meant earlier when i said "you look for exact and precise words to follow anything" so brother there's not a shadow of doubt about The Holy Quran being the Ultimate Authority by Allah (SWT) that was revealed to Our Beloved Prophet (Peace be upon him) and the Absolute knowledge of "Unseen" as understood by any layman is the Only attribute of Allah (SWT) and lies only and only with Allah (SWT).Islam has to be adopted in it's entirety that includes covering all aspects of the whole Seera and Life of Our Beloved Prophet (Peace be upon him) we get to see that in Ahadeeth just as the occasion of Eid we get to know about it via hadeeth,such an important and vital aspect and institute can not be denied or deliberately overlooked,as far as fabrications and weak hadeeth are concerned it's true one needs to be vigilant about them and Alhamdulillah Ulama-e-deen have done an amazing work in separating out those,i fully understand your stance you do consult or have a look at those hadeeth pertaining to commands in The Holy Quran for instance Namaaz.Zakat etc. but you can not simply limit your approach to that,had that been the case you surely would've separated out yourself from the practice of eid which you said was passed and carried on from generations.The Holy Quran when read with tafseer does cover the proper contexts and explanations regarding Ayats and you'd even see if any hadeeth that's relevant to a specific verse mentioned in the tafseer,having said that,it surely does not mean you need all the Sahah-e-Sitta to understand The Holy Quran but whatever was said by Our Beloved Prophet (Peace be upon him) apart from the revelation of The Divine and Sacred Word Of Allah (SWT) needs to be accepted,obeyed and followed.


--Brother as far as tie is concerned i never said it's haraam or halal,the point was simply choice,just as today's most european and american reverts would love to adopt and wear an arab dress just to get the feel of connection with Our Holy Prophet ( Peace be upon him) or may be get themselves dressed in a kurta shalwar to feel more comfortable,hope brother that clarifies any misconception.May Allah guides us all and May Allah (SWT) makes us all steadfast on HIS true deen,Ameen.