Is Joint Family System allowed in Islam?

Faiza

Moderator
I have no intention to bring any controversial topic for discussion, and I hope I am not hurting anyones feelings

Since we lived many years in the influence of Indian culture, and we adopt so much, now we practice those things in our daily life without any hesitation, our marriages is a biggest example

Small clip but very clear massage

 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Dear Faiza, islam is not a straight jacket as it is made to appear. It is basically several foundational values and some foundational guidelines and the rest is left to people to do as it suits their own situations and circumstances. The social issues are to be decided by society as a whole and family issues are to be decided by individual families for themselves and individual issues are to be decided by individuals. Hope you can see the basic rule or principles in this. What works for one may not work for the others due to difference of situations and circumstances.

As I usually try to convey islam is not what people think it is rather it is what the quran explains according to set rules, in its own context according to its own goals for set purposes.

The quran is not about guidelines but guidelines for set purposes and the application also depends on situations and circumstances. For example goals are different when there is no islamic state from those that are for time and place when there is an islamic state. So guidelines that apply in one situation do not necessarily in another.

Once a person understand these basic ideas then all mullaiyat based gadh masle disappear. It is better to learn things such a way that help us be free of confusion about things and thereby free of sectarianism and a centuries long nonsensical tit for tat exchange of useless words.

regards and all the best
 
Last edited:

Jshah

Minister (2k+ posts)
Mr. Mughal - on what basis you convey your Islam. Human are expected to follow the Holy Quran and the Life of the Prophet PBUH exactly in the same manner on its basic.

If Islam order to avoid mix society, where in in-laws males are females cannot assemble together, how can you live in joint family. Fauzia is 100% right, this custom came from Hindus and we don't want to give up that impure culture.

There are some hindu secs where all brothers marry one woman at a time and sleep with her on their terms...... In that culture, it is possible to live in a joint family but not in Islamic society.

We are meant to follow Islam and not to mold Islam according to our wishes, then it will not be Islam rather something else.
 

imdad hussain

New Member
Very sory, i am totally disagreed to dr israr.islaam(quraan)always teaches us collective life and not the individuel life.seprate life is against the lesson of allah.this is not occasion to explain the subject in detaile, other wise i could,ve eleborated the subject in detailes. In brief, our deen teaches us only collective life.
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Dear Jshah, we cannot follow the quran and the hadith without making some sort of sense of them.

http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...کی-جان-کو-خطرہ&p=465180&viewfull=1#post465180

Relationships are based upon trust not upon wrapping people up. If we really believe in a society and brotherhood concept and see our survival in that then we will not do anything that will jeopardize our existence. So it is more to do with education than diktats that people do not really accept as true and necessary for their existence.

This is why islam must be taught as a rational concept not as mere instructions that make no sense. The reason we are the way we are is because we lack knowledge of purposefulness of things we are told to do or not to do. We are not an educated society and we do not want to be one.

Rules and laws mean nothing to us as a result. Our general talk is nonsense and abuse. We are just cultists ie respect people when we want and disrespect them when we like ie mood swing at random.

Look at it this way, we are not letting each other talk about religion without expressing our anger over nothing yet we do not study it for understanding. This is such a big conflict within our own behaviour. We only want a certain people to tell us about religion and not certain others. Not really for any sound reason at all.

We are very well aware of same sex relationships yet it is ok for women to be alone with women and men with men but not ok between men and women. People have similar relationships with animals as well so are we goiing to get them all to stay away from each other or put everything under lock and key?

So I would not make life unnecessary difficult for people by taking deen in the wrong direction that stops soceity even from its rightful functioning.

You cannot stop a determined person from doing what such a person intends to do by making life hell for the whole community.

Wisdom must be called upon to draw a sensible divide.

Thanks for giving me opportunity for explaining the point. regards and all the best.
 

bravo

Banned
Mr. Mughal - on what basis you convey your Islam. Human are expected to follow the Holy Quran and the Life of the Prophet PBUH exactly in the same manner on its basic.

If Islam order to avoid mix society, where in in-laws males are females cannot assemble together, how can you live in joint family. Fauzia is 100% right, this custom came from Hindus and we don't want to give up that impure culture.

There are some hindu secs where all brothers marry one woman at a time and sleep with her on their terms...... In that culture, it is possible to live in a joint family but not in Islamic society.

We are meant to follow Islam and not to mold Islam according to our wishes, then it will not be Islam rather something else.


Where did you read it ?you need to understand hinduism..Hindus dont even marry cousin sisters ....If you heard of some hindus brothers marrying a single woman;it may be due to their poorness and its a rare phenomenon !!
Come out of your pandora box!
 

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
Faiza Bibi,
Your question is very sensitive and must be addressed by making a biopsy of
the words involved:
a) what is family;
b) what is system;
c) what is Islam (religion; i suppose you mean).
The concept of joint or independent will become at a later stage. Without
wrapping the topic in cosmetic english words and everyone should be to the point,
simple and brief. Anyone's bet?
 

Narcissist

Banned
I think joint family system based in sub-continent for millennia's was and is more about economic reasons than some Hindu religious orders. Like every other family system, it has its pro's and con's. Today our society is breaking this family pact, and therefore more and more young people want to live apart from joint family system and want independent life, so more of nucleus family units are appearing in urban areas. But in the past joint family was hindrance in the shot up rate of divorces, whereas today in nucleus family units, it is need of time for young couples to behave more maturely toward their spouses and to work single - handedly without outer efforts to save their marriages. Certainly this fresh trend in our country is more influenced from western life than Islamic teachings. If the teaching of this mullah offer and support the 'nucleus family unit ' , then it is indeed welcomed.
[FONT=arial, sans-serif][/FONT]
 

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
While discussing this topic, let us please come out the usual grip of
Hinduism and its cultural effects. It is not fairness to blame any other religion
for our own ills. Islam as a religion has to survive and make its applications in
all societies, Hindu, Jews, Christians, or let us say, American, Canadian, Latin American,
Asian, or whatever. Because everywhere Muslims or claiming to be muslims live.
So there should not be restrictions about or accusations against any society or
cultural environment.
 

Star Gazer

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Dear Faiza
I think it is a very good point that you have raised and there are many aspects to this issue including religious aspect.
Common sense helps me to arrive at the conclusion that joint family system is not the best in most of the cases as far as the relationship between the husband and wife is concerned. The wife is at a natural disadvantage because the husband remains with the people who are his family and gets a lot of moral support where as the wife has to make all the adjustments with too much scrutiny.
My limited knowledge tells me that there are no hard and fast rules about this issue from Islamic point of view it is left to the needs of the times. I do know that when Prophet Mohammad (SAWW) got married to hazrat Khadija, the tradition of the time was that the groom moved into the wife's home and that is what happened, so maybe there is a guideline here for us. It could be just the simple fact that when two people are starting a new life they need time and space and ego should be put aside for the greater benefit of the family. hazrat Fatima's marriage to hazrat Ali is also an example, and the fact that all of the Prophet Mohammad's (SAWW) had seperate homes.
Economics also influence this issue substantially for most of the people because it is hard to manage an entire house hold independently.
The only concern for me is that the parents of the groom are his responsibility as stated by Allah and they should be respected and taken care of by the son. Here is the real issue as most of the men in Pakistan atleast, are not raised with the idea that they have responsibilities towards wife as much as towards their parents or sisters they believe that it is their right to be served by the wife whatever the treatment towards her may be by the husband. Now this is as much the fault of the mothers and sisters of the groom as it is of the groom. My brothers please do not get upset or angry because if we analuse this dispassionatley I am suer we can arrive at a more acceptable understanding leading to better outcomes. In a nut shell we are all to blame for the ills of our living arrangements.
 

sahiL

Senator (1k+ posts)
Quran also stresses on Parda as well friendo
Very sory, i am totally disagreed to dr israr.islaam(quraan)always teaches us collective life and not the individuel life.seprate life is against the lesson of allah.this is not occasion to explain the subject in detaile, other wise i could,ve eleborated the subject in detailes. In brief, our deen teaches us only collective life.
 

Faiza

Moderator
Dear Faiza
I think it is a very good point that you have raised and there are many aspects to this issue including religious aspect.
Common sense helps me to arrive at the conclusion that joint family system is not the best in most of the cases as far as the relationship between the husband and wife is concerned. The wife is at a natural disadvantage because the husband remains with the people who are his family and gets a lot of moral support where as the wife has to make all the adjustments with too much scrutiny.
My limited knowledge tells me that there are no hard and fast rules about this issue from Islamic point of view it is left to the needs of the times. I do know that when Prophet Mohammad (SAWW) got married to hazrat Khadija, the tradition of the time was that the groom moved into the wife's home and that is what happened, so maybe there is a guideline here for us. It could be just the simple fact that when two people are starting a new life they need time and space and ego should be put aside for the greater benefit of the family. hazrat Fatima's marriage to hazrat Ali is also an example, and the fact that all of the Prophet Mohammad's (SAWW) had seperate homes.
Economics also influence this issue substantially for most of the people because it is hard to manage an entire house hold independently.
The only concern for me is that the parents of the groom are his responsibility as stated by Allah and they should be respected and taken care of by the son. Here is the real issue as most of the men in Pakistan atleast, are not raised with the idea that they have responsibilities towards wife as much as towards their parents or sisters they believe that it is their right to be served by the wife whatever the treatment towards her may be by the husband. Now this is as much the fault of the mothers and sisters of the groom as it is of the groom. My brothers please do not get upset or angry because if we analuse this dispassionatley I am suer we can arrive at a more acceptable understanding leading to better outcomes. In a nut shell we are all to blame for the ills of our living arrangements.

I lived in Saudi Arabia, they still have the same system; there is no concept of a joint family system .. When a girl marries she goes straight to her house, because they follow the rules of hijjab and they cover themselves in front of brother in law, cousin or Na Mehram

The problem is when we discourage the joint family system, people always think, it is against parents, it has nothing to do with parents or its not against parents, anyway I am not an Alim. If people can disagree with scholar like Dr Israr Ahmed then how can I convince any one, I knew that this is a controversial topic and many people would disagree with me .
 

Unicorn

Banned
I have no intention to bring any controversial topic for discussion, and I hope I am not hurting anyone’s feelings

Since we lived many years in the influence of Indian culture, and we adopt so much, now we practice those things in our daily life without any hesitation, our marriages is a biggest example

Small clip but very clear massage


Joint family system in old days was a economic necessity. Specially in the villages where people had to live mainly of land, it worked reasonably well because men and women worked from dawn til dusk and went to sleep. The economic realities effects every one regardless of culture or religion.

In today's world a successful joint family is an exception to the rule.

The Maulana is saying that in a joint family religion can not be practiced properly.
 

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
Since we lived many years in the influence of Indian culture,
and we adopt so much, now we practice those things in our
daily life without any hesitation, our marriages is a biggest example
Faiza Bibi,
This is really very unfortunate that we (Muslims and specially Pakistani Muslims),
instead of accepting the reality of being ourselves half-muslims, hypocrites or non-
practicing Islam, accuse and make responsible another system. In this case, Hinduism
or Indian culture. This is really chilling on our part. Hinduism or their culture is not like
scent which we breath into our respiration, rather it is our own acceptance or is its
beauty that we willingly or unwillingly do not get rid of it. So joint family system is
not that Hinduism is responsible but our own helplessness either economically or
otherwise.
When a person claims or propagates to be a Muslim, what does it mean, it is
just a confessional statement that we make or it carries with it lot of things also.
our problem is that we are living in the illusion that by make a confessional statement
we have become muslims, rather it is the first and the smallest thing. A Muslim is
a person who believes, accepts and practice all that is within the parameters of
a book starting from Alif-laam-meem and ending at Wanaas.
So after accepting
this condition, the other systems whether Hinduism or Judaism, or whatsoever, become
irrelevant to a Muslim. So let us please leave the accusations of other systems and
concentrate on the topic rationally. (will continue latter).
 

pak4rule

Senator (1k+ posts)
I wonder often that why we happy and quickly adopt and accept those Islamic points which are in our favour and dont even consider other related points.

Ok agreed that joint family system is not considered good in islam coz of religious obligation, very correct but my dears, Islam also says to look ofter parents, take care of sisters , aunts, uncles.

Now we half muslims [ I like this term as we do not act 100% according to Islam / Allah's wish] happily get seperat house and get busy in our lives, then are you able to 100% take care of your parents?

will you daily visit them ?
will you care when they are sick?
will you leave your sisters without any shelter of a brother ?

are your neighbours will look after your relatives ?

kindly first see your capacity of being seperate with your wife along with fulfilling the rights of other blood relations.

Are you able to carry out all responsibilities the way Islam and Allah and Muhammad PBUH wants and require from you ????

first answer these questions and then with my pleasure have seperate life with your spouse.

May Allah guide us to the right path. ameen
 

Ehraz

MPA (400+ posts)
The original nucleus of any society is the family. Many problems within our society to begin within the family. The loss of value and identity crisis have its origins in the family. If the parents are no longer able to communicate values​​, which are also recognized by the children and young people, then starts the process losing the values.

For the newborn child is the primary caretaker, the mother. Through this relationship originate the WE-identity, and mother-child identity. Most Islamic societies are trying to strengthen this relationship. The following saying of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw) references to this important relationship: "Paradise lies under the feet of your mothers." (Hadith-saying).

Besides the mother, of course, also play the father and siblings an important role. Although they say that it is the fathers who bring up the children. But first and foremost the key role are taken by mothers because they have longer and more intense contact with the children.

In Islamic countries (Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Pakistan and partially in Turkey - Muslim countries I visited), one meet frequently the extended family, i.e. parents, children and grandparents live together in the same household. This constellation is very important. First there are the grandparents who help care for the children. After a certain age, this process is no longer one-sided, but the children also help their grandparents. Thus the children learn early to take on the older family members into account.

In families, the children undergo a sea of changes, and get to know the code of conduct. This value system is constantly extended by new situations. The children often have the first contact with religion by praying Namaz together with their parents. The family members congregate to perform the prayer bajamaat. That's how small children learn to deal with religion. Gradually, the child will be integrated in prayer.

Performing Namaz bajamaat plays in the Islamic society a very important role. This whether only a small scale at home or in the mosque. The devotion, the rest, which interrupts the hustle and bustle of everyday life is a good opportunity to focus on the essential point. Before and after the prayer is also usually a bit of time to talk. The prayer is a sort of "social gathering". An important factor in a society in which one has no more time. The most precious, namely, the time is sacrificed to God. In the family the child learn basic Islamic rules, and should apply as a teenager and adult.

My conclusion is that Islam empower joint family-system and play in conveying important values ​​a very important role.
 

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
Family:
one's wife or husband and one's children;
one's children, as distinguished from one's husband or wife
All the members of a household under one roof.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/family
Generally speaking a person, with his wife and children is called family.
joint family means when father, mother, unmarried children and married male
member or members live together under one roof, in the supervision or domination
of the head of family who is normally Father.
There are no hard and fast rules explicitly stating if under Islam a family
is to remain as joint family. The basic thing is to understand when a person
should marry and how he should marry. Those are the basic principles.
A male has been emphatically told to a) marry when he is financially or
economically well-off :
[SIZE=-1]Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allah gives them means out of His grace.....
[/SIZE]وَلْيَسْتَعْفِفِ الَّذِينَ لَا يَجِدُونَ نِكَاحًا حَتَّىٰ يُغْنِيَهُمُ اللَّهُ مِنْ فَضْلِهِ ۗ
(24:33)
b) Marry the women to whom they like:
[SIZE=-1]"""....Marry women of your choice,...."[/SIZE]
.........فَانْكِحُوا مَا طَابَ لَكُمْ مِنَ النِّسَاءِ..........(4:3
If people may not become angry, I may state that neither our marriages are
in Islamic way nor then our living is nearer to that.
Now the question comes, where to live after marriage. Quran clearly states that
you do not know whether your children (means your own family) or your Parents are
beneficial to you, but at the same time fixes the limit for both of them. So a married
person (Male Member) even after marriage is not absolved of his responsibilities towards
his parents or other family members. That is very very important. Therefore irrespective
of living jointly or independently a person is required to fulfill his obligations towards
his wife, children, parents and relatives. There are clear guidance and rules for that.
Normally people in Sub-continent resort to joint family system/way PRIMARILY due to
the fact that they do not have ample resources to live independently. As with
marriage another family comes into being, if financial resources permit, ideally the
couple should live separately and far-sighted parents also encourage this.
In the end I quote following verse:
وَقَضَىٰ رَبُّكَ أَلَّا تَعْبُدُوا إِلَّا إِيَّاهُ وَبِالْوَالِدَيْنِ إِحْسَانًا ۚ إِمَّا يَبْلُغَنَّ عِنْدَكَ الْكِبَرَ أَحَدُهُمَا أَوْ كِلَاهُمَا فَلَا تَقُلْ لَهُمَا أُفٍّ وَلَا تَنْهَرْهُمَا وَقُلْ لَهُمَا قَوْلًا كَرِيمً
[SIZE=-1][Shakir 17:23] And your Lord has commanded that you shall not serve (any) but Him, and goodness to your parents. If either or both of them reach old age with you, say not to them (so much as) "Ugh" nor chide them, and speak to them a generous word.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 17:23] Thy Lord hath decreed, that ye worship none save Him, and (that ye show) kindness to parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age with thee, say not "Fie" unto them nor repulse them, but speak unto them a gracious word.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Yusufali 17:23] Thy Lord hath decreed that ye worship none but Him, and that ye be kind to parents. Whether one or both of them attain old age in thy life, say not to them a word of contempt, nor repel them, but address them in terms of honour.[/SIZE]
I have highlighted the Arabic word as well as English translations of that world. One can
get the conclusion from that. Perhaps mine explanation will make someone angry?
 
Last edited:

Unicorn

Banned
Faiza Bibi,
This is really very unfortunate that we (Muslims and specially Pakistani Muslims),
instead of accepting the reality of being ourselves half-muslims, hypocrites or non-
practicing Islam, accuse and make responsible another system. In this case, Hinduism
or Indian culture. This is really chilling on our part. Hinduism or their culture is not like
scent which we breath into our respiration, rather it is our own acceptance or is its
beauty that we willingly or unwillingly do not get rid of it. So joint family system is
not that Hinduism is responsible but our own helplessness either economically or
otherwise.
When a person claims or propagates to be a Muslim, what does it mean, it is
just a confessional statement that we make or it carries with it lot of things also.
our problem is that we are living in the illusion that by make a confessional statement
we have become muslims, rather it is the first and the smallest thing. A Muslim is
a person who believes, accepts and practice all that is within the parameters of
a book starting from Alif-laam-meem and ending at Wanaas.
So after accepting
this condition, the other systems whether Hinduism or Judaism, or whatsoever, become
irrelevant to a Muslim. So let us please leave the accusations of other systems and
concentrate on the topic rationally. (will continue latter).

Very well stated. This particular Moulana, in the video is of the opinion regardless of how loving, caring and respectful a joint family is, if parda is not practiced than its all meaningless.
 

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
DEAN RELIGION:
CONSISTS OF SET OF UNSEEN CONCEPTS, LAID-DOWN PRINCIPLES AND PRACTICES ESTABLISHED
BY A DIVINE AUTHORITY KNOWN AS THE GOD, WHICH A HUMAN IN HIS/HER INDIVIDUAL CAPACITY
OR THE SOCIETY AS A WHOLE, BELIEVES, ACCEPTS AND PERFORMS.


After Defining, Family, Muslim, Religion and instructions/guidelines about parents,
and marriage, it is summed up that there are no hard and fast rules regarding
joint family in Islam, but there are strict guidelines about marriage, parents
and relatives. Therefore any individual if living in Pakistan, America or Europe
cannot absolved himself of his responsibilities about his parents, whereever
they may be living/residing.
If an individual claims to be a Muslim then he is supposed/required to be
within certain limits/restrictions/guidelines etc prescribed for him, otherwise
he is no more than a fake doctor who just entered the college by saying
a confessional statement, but never completed his course.
 

zaman

MPA (400+ posts)
I lived in Saudi Arabia, they still have the same system; there is no concept of a joint family system .. When a girl marries she goes straight to her house, because they follow the rules of hijjab and they cover themselves in front of brother in law, cousin or Na Mehram

The problem is when we discourage the joint family system, people always think, it is against parents, it has nothing to do with parents or its not against parents, anyway I am not an Alim. If people can disagree with scholar like Dr Israr Ahmed then how can I convince any one, I knew that this is a controversial topic and many people would disagree with me .

یار کبھی کبھی اچھی بات کر جاتی ہو - آپ پردہ کرتی ہو؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟