Indian Army chief wants to hit Pakistan hard on LoC

Bangash

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
pehle aqal ki taufeeq karo. musalmano mein aqal naam ki cheez ab na honay ke barabar hai. larrney ke liye bhi aqal chahiye
تم خود کو مسلمان کیسے کہ سکتے ہو جب تم قران اور سنت سے انکار کرتے ہو؟


[FONT=&quot] “اِنَّ اللهَ اشْتَرٰی مِنَ الْمُوٴْمِنِیْنَ اَنْفُسَھُمْ وَاَمْوَالَھُمْ بِأَنَّ لَھُمُ الْجَنَّةَ، یُقَاتِلُوْنَ فِیْ سَبِیْلِ اللهِ فَیَقْتُلُوْنَ وَیُقْتَلُوْنَ، وَعْدًا عَلَیْہِ حَقًّا فِی التَّوْرٰةِ وَالْاِنْجِیْلِ وَالْقُرْاٰنِ، وَمَنْ اَوْفٰی بِعَھْدِہ[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot] مِنَ اللهِ، فَاسْتَبْشِرُوْا بِبَیْعِکُمُ الَّذِیْ بَایَعْتُمْ بِہ[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]، وَذٰلِکَ ھُوَ الْفَوْزُ الْعَظِیْمُ۔” (التوبہ:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]۱۱۱)
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[FONT=&quot] “وَلَا تَحْسَبَنَّ الَّذِیْنَ قُتِلُوْا فِیْ سَبِیْلِ اللهِ اَمْوَاتًا بَلْ اَحْیَآءٌ عِنْدَ رَبِّھِمْ یُرْزَقُوْنَ۔ فَرِحِیْنَ بِمَا اٰتٰھُمُ اللهُ مِنْ فَضْلِہ[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot] وَیَسْتَبْشِرُوْنَ بِالَّذِیْنَ لَمْ یَلْحَقُوْا بِھِمْ مِّنْ خَلْفِھِمْ اَلَّا خَوْفٌ عَلَیْھِمْ وَلَا ھُمْ یَحْزَنُوْنَ۔ یَسْتَبْشِرُوْنَ بِنِعْمَةٍ مِّنَ اللهِ وَفَضْلٍ وَّاَنَّ اللهَ لَا یُضِیْعُ اَجْرَ الْمُوٴْمِنِیْنَ۔” (آل عمران:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]۱۶۹ - ۱۷۱)[/FONT]

 
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abdlsy

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
idiot go ahead make my day, good for pakistans unity TTP, UTP, PPT, BLA etc etec all will then unite and take all anger on control line, maybe our terrorist can enter india and vreate chaos, good riddance(bigsmile)
 

Imranpak

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Bharat knows where we are if it wants a fight! I say bring it on if you dare then see what we do to you! Peace is always best yet not at the expense of cowardice. I believe one should never initiate war as it gives them the moral high ground if it is forced on them. Pakistan should stay calm at this moment in time. Bharati soldiers killed each and are blaming it on Pakistan!

http://www.pakistankakhudahafiz.com...end-exposing-indias-evil-intentions-and-lies/

The LoC Debacle Coming to an End, Exposing India’s Evil Intentions and Lies -


Why did India hastily give out statements about Pakistan?

Why are the Indian opposition and Indian media involved in hysteria of Pakphobia?

Why did Antony revise his statements, confusing all the diplomatic and rational circles around the globe and in the region?

Why is Kashmir suffering and Pakistan facing a wave of terror during this fiasco of LoC?

Why is the Indian Army Chief outraged at his Commanding Officers of J&K?

What actually happened at the Sarlah post of Poonch Brigade?

LoC

Everything in war is very simple, but the simplest thing is difficult. -Carl von Clausewitz

May 28, 2013: Dismayed by the heated response during a night time argument with a fellow army personnel of 33 Rashtriya Rifles, Ritender Kumar did not think twice before pumping seven bullets in Mukesh Tiwari’s body, causing his on the spot death. This happened at the Baramulla district of Kashmir.

To start with, this event has a purpose, which we will discuss later on in this piece.

However, the focus of our report is on the recent case of the LoC, where five soldiers of the Indian army were killed, after which the Indian media and the opposition forces remonstrated and showed their hatred towards Pakistan within a few hours of the incident. Later, the government of India also joined the same bandwagon of Pakphobia. What little surfaced afterwards is somewhat a different story.

Background

The Indian parliament issued a statement where they alleged this incident as the handiwork of Pakistan’s “specialist troops”. Before this event, on the 27th of July, it was reported that Indian troops crossed the LoC near Neelam Valley and kidnapped 4 Kashmiris. There was no strong statement given by Pakistan at that time, upon which a few from Pakistan accused the government of having a weak foreign policy towards India and having a soft tone even over the violations of the Indian troops. But to some it was a mature approach, as there were not sufficient evidence to prove the incident, which opinion, to us, seems more appropriate in such a scenario.

However, after the event of the 6th of August, where five Indian troops were killed, the Indian opposition, Media and even the government came up with an adolescent approach and attitude. The opposition parties at first reacted and cornered the Congress led government in parliament, it as inept.

Response and Reaction

The parliamentarians lambasted the government response, insisting that the Government needs to follow a strict ‘no dialogue’ policy with Pakistan. “Dastardly ambush“, says Narendra Modi of BJP over Indian soldiers’ killing. “Pak kills Indian soldiers. No talks if even a single bullet is fired.” Meanwhile, the Indian government was in a fixation, whether to call it a direct or a supported attack by Pakistan’s troops. The Indian defence minister, Antony, first termed it as an attack by the Pakistani supported militant organization LeT, who were allegedly wearing the uniform of the Pakistan armed forces, but later, they issued a statement where they termed it as a wing of the armed forces known as Mujahideen 801/802.

But the most irrational and hilarious statements were the ones about the visit of Hafiz Saeed at the LoC, as reported by different Indian media outlets based upon “intel inputs” and statements of Indian officials, where they claimed that the ISI may be trying to push Afghan Taliban into J&K. Afghan Taliban, however, rejected the same categorically and termed it “Illogical”.

Further, to fend off the opposition parties’ uproar, Antony took a U-turn for the second time and issued a fresh statement; thereby once again indicting Pakistan army for the LoC violation. Furthermore, the fiery statements in the parliament – coupled with the media’s fixation on Pakistan army’s supposed role in the Poonch district ambush – resulted in the Pakistan High Commission in Delhi being attacked by the youth wing of Congress party.

Pakistan’s Response

Pakistan strongly rejected its involvement and claimed that the reports of ‘some sections of Indian media’ were ‘baseless and unfounded’; the Foreign Ministry in its press release asserted, “Our military authorities have confirmed that there had been no exchange of fire that could have resulted in such an incident.”

Concerns and the Search for Facts

However, eyebrows were raised in certain quarters of Pakistan upon such a chain of events and misfit statements by the Indian opposition, officials and especially by General Bikram Singh. The credibility of Indian officials’ reports became highly controversial when dissonance was discovered in the statements issued by the Indian Defense Minister, firstly accusing the Pakistan army, changing its course within hours and then again taking a U-turn.

This concern was shown by ex-military officers of Pakistan, where they exhibited their distress about the current chief of Indian forces, Bikram Singh. Upon inquiry, one of the high profile ex-officers of the Pak forces told us, that Bikram Singh is known for his anti-Kashmir stance, labeling him the master of “fake encounters” and “false flags”. The immediate visit of Bikram Singh, after this incident, to the same place and, later on, his having unleashed his anger upon his commanders in J&K for not retaliating with “hard” and “heavy” power on Pakistani posts, were together a ground for suspicions.

What actually happened?

During inquiries, we stumbled upon a source in the Indian military camp who revealed that the portrayal of Indian soldiers’ annihilation, purportedly by the Pakistani army, is baseless. The source, who personally oversaw this complete scenario, stressed that these Indian soldiers killed each other with their service rifles after a heated debate. The source further asserted that the outpost in Poonch–Rajouri strip – where these soldiers were stationed – got incinerated by fire. The post was burned down to the ground due to that fire having spread.

We contacted the Additional Directorate General of Public Information, Indian Ministry of Defense (ADGPI) through social media handles available on Twitter, but until now, no response has been given to us.



An issue which paved the way for Indian Adventurism against Pakistan – yet again

Here we remind the readers about the story from where we started this piece, the story of Ritender Kumar of 33 Rashtriya Rifles. This psychological disorder is discovered by many researchers of this subject within the Indian army itself.

Mariam Shah, a senior research fellow of the NDU and regular contributor at PKKH, who completed her thesis on a very rare subject of psychological disorders among troops around the world, told us that this complete case seems to be the result of “Post Traumatic Stress Disorder”, commonly known as PTSD. The recent cases in Afghanistan, where US troop killed Afghan civilians, were later also diagnosed with a similar psychological disorder and behavioral pattern.

The same is validated by the records of Indian soldiers committing suicide or killing each other in such events. This trend of fratricidal violence in the Indian army is being observed since long. Generally brushed aside by Indian officials as stress-oriented events, the soldiers are increasingly committing suicide and turning their guns on each other. A. K. Antony, the Defense Minister of the Government of India, in an In-House briefing highlighted the suicidal deaths of 1,108 soldiers since 2003, with the yearly toll maintaining an average of over 100 soldiers taking the extreme step of taking their own lives.

If seen in the limelight of the fratricidal violence that has plagued the Indian soldiers’ ranks, the above-mentioned source-disseminated inside story is not surprising for the observers. We critically appraised the events, which will be presented to push back India’s retort about Pakistan’s involvement in these attacks.

Why and who wants to turn it against Pakistan?

Clausewitz rightly stated that: “War is nothing but a continuation of politics with the admixture of other means”. This again proves to be correct, when one goes on the task of finding out the truth about the unfolded events and tracks.

The visit to Poonch district by the Indian army top boss, General Bikram Singh, on an immediate basis, needs to be strictly scrutinized.

He did not turn up in Kashmir after the killing of two soldiers in January 8 attacks, and resorted to the issuance of a perfunctory statement in which he droned about attacking Pakistan. He was not bothered about Hizbul Mujahideen attack on an army convoy in Hyderpora – Srinagar, in which eight soldiers were killed, but he swiftly embarked to Kashmir dramatizing the killings of these Indian soldiers.

The same General pressed the idea of cornering Pakistan, early this year in January, when another allegation was thrown at the Pakistani troops for decapitating Indian patrolling troops on the LoC, resulting in severe skirmishes, . The recent outrage of Bikram Singh on his commanding officers of J&K, for not retaliating against Pakistan, is icing on the cake, exposing what might be hidden beneath.

The question is, why?

We believe that fears of post-2014 are looming in certain quarters of the Indian establishments and think tanks. Their investments and efforts of 12 years seem to be futile, as Qatar talks are in turmoil, where India were hoping for a relief during the negotiations between Taliban and the US. Further, the ghost of the 1980s, perhaps, is still haunting India, when the USSR exited Afghanistan and India, who jumped in the sinking ship of the USSR, suffered the most afterwards, by the closure of its offices in Afghanistan.

Indian think tanks and policy makers, like ex-Raw Chief Vikram Sood, are pushing the idea, that India should play all its
cards to ensure its presence in Afghanistan, the backyard of Pakistan. The policy makers of India are linking all these efforts with the Kashmir movement, advising the Indian establishment for using any means necessary to safeguard and pursue its “national interests”.

On the other hand, since January, we are observing a certain pattern of suppression within Kashmir, where first India sent a message to Kashmir by hanging Afzal Guru, and later on, during peaceful protests, killed students.

Provoking incidents, such as Quran desecration in Ramban and upon protests of the people, killing them, in an indiscriminated open fire is also indicates India’s intentions towards its disputed matters. It also fuels the idea of suppressing Kashmiris, because as per Indian think tanks, Kashmiris may take aspirations from the pull out of US and allied forces from the region. Recently arming the Village Defence Committees (VDC), even after the presence of more than 700,000 armed troops within J&K, and then provoking incidents like Kishtwar and Laddakh, can also be taken as an example of impending situation of Kashmir in particular and of region in general. Later on, these events resulted in attacks by minority factions of Jammu and Kashmir on the Muslim majority areas, with the help of armed VDC and on behest of the Indian armed forces.

Conclusion

The General, perhaps, linking the indigenous movement of Kashmir with Pakistan and with the ghost of 1980s, is now orchestrating another false flag against Pakistan, completing the task based on various inputs given to him by Indian policy makers and think tanks. Outraged and fuming Bikram Singh is not at peace, resulting in another skirmish on the 11th of August, an attack on a Pakistani Rangers’ check post by Indian troops at Sialkot Sector injuring two Pakistani troops.

The Indian policy makers and intelligentsia need to learn the lesson, and should dissect themselves from the mentality of Hindutva, which is not only harming its neighbors, but, perhaps, it is also eating the Indians from the inside like a cancer, which is often diagnosed in its last stages. All these moves of cornering Pakistan are considered to be perilous; keeping in view the nuclear status of Pakistan.
 
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M Ali Khan

Minister (2k+ posts)
Fearing nuclear escalation, India limits its response to Pakistan's provocations

By: Rajesh Rajagopalan

In the aftermath of yet another Pakistani transgression, we are back to the tired old arguments about whetheror not India should be talking to Pakistan. Proponents argue that nothing has been gained whenever India stopped talking to Pakistan, as it did after every major provocation. Their opponents argue that dialogue has not stopped Pakistan's provocations.

Both sides are right and therein lies the simple truth that New Delhi refuses to acknowledge: dialogue or the lack of it has little impact on Pakistan. The reason Pakistan continues to provoke is that India has eschewed any retaliation for fear of nuclear escalation. Because Pakistan does not fear Indian retaliation, India's deterrence is dead. To prevent Pakistani provocations, India needs to resurrect its deterrence and that requires considering using military force.

Pakistan's nuclearisation has ended India's ability to deter Islamabad from provocations. Consequently, Pakistan has provided unprecedented levels of support to terrorist groups, which includes not only terrorist attacks in India but also against the Indian mission in Afghanistan.

Fearing nuclear escalation, both the BJP and the UPA governments have limited their responses to diplomatic protests and calling off dialogue. These are ineffectual responses that only serve to illustrate Indian helplessness. Pakistan knows that India will eventually have to return to talks.


Strategic Stupidity


It is not as if Indian leadership has been unaware of the problem. After Kargil, then defence minister George Fernandes and army chief General VP Malik suggested that India could explore limited conventional war options that would punish Pakistan without risking escalation.

Unfortunately that idea has not been pursued. After Operation Parakram, the Indian Army proposed a "cold start" doctrine. It was a plan for faster mobilisation because one lesson of Operation Parakram was that Indian military mobilisation took very long, which allowed international pressure and strategic secondguessing to undermine the Indian leadership's will to order a military retaliation. But Cold Start envisaged a much larger war and it might not be an appropriate response for anything but a catastrophic terrorist attack.

Also, Pakistan's introduction of short-range tactical nuclear weapons has increased New Delhi's apprehensions. In any case, at least formally, the Indian Army has discarded Cold Start.

Indian leaders have further undermined our deterrence by repeatedly proclaiming that they do not want war. This is the one point on which there is consensus in New Delhi but consensus is not wisdom. Even if war is not an option, taking it off the table is the height of strategic stupidity. As long as India is unable to threaten Pakistan with military retaliation, Pakistan has little incentive to stop supporting terrorist actions against India. Diplomacy provides few useful responses.

Stopping the dialogue is a short term measure that will not deter Pakistan. Seeking international support is equally useless because even if the other powers support India diplomatically €” which itself is a mighty big if considering Pakistan's talent for leveraging its strategic location €” it will have little impact on Pakistan, as they have repeatedly demonstrated. Diplomacy can aid military power but it cannot replace it.

Retaliatory Option

India needs to consider all of its options, including the use of force. While force should not be the first option for all problems, force has to be an option at least in responding to attacks. The fear that any military operation would automatically result in nuclear escalation is halfbaked wisdom from a superficial reading of Cold War history.

The nuclear relationship between Washington and Moscow was very different because both sides deployed nuclear weapons on a hairtrigger, which meant that the slightest disturbance had the potential to set off a nuclear conflagration.

That is not the situation in South Asia where neither side deploys ready-to-use nuclear weapons. Pakistan refuses to join India in adopting a no-first-use of nuclear weapons pledge, which is understandable, given their inferiority in conventional military strength.

But this is taken as an indication of Pakistan's irrationality, which only strengthens Pakistan's deterrence because it effectively paralyses the Indian leadership.

Pakistan might have a first-use doctrine but it is first-use as last resort, much as Israel keeps nuclear weapons to ensure its survival. First use does not mean Pakistan will lob nuclear bombs as soon as the first Indian soldier crosses the border. As long as Indian action does not threaten the survival of the Pakistani state, it is unlikely that Pakistan will reach for nuclear weapons.

India does have the option of engaging in limited military retaliation, especially in PoK. Civilian and military leaders need to jointly reconsider the Fernandes-Malik proposals so that military retaliatory options are available to deter Pakistan and, if deterrence fails, to respond to Pakistan's provocations.

Without it, we will be condemned to repeat the facile dialogue-no dialogue debate after the next provocation, which is surely coming.

The writer is Professor of International Politics, JNU, Delhi


http://articles.economictimes.india...ews/41240657_1_indian-army-pakistan-islamabad
 
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Imranpak

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
We agree that Bharat is simply incapable of attacking Pakistan without receiving massive blows in return(bigsmile) Things like dialogue don't bother us because with the USA leaving we will soon be in a very powerful position, inshallah. If Bharat does not want to talk then let it be known that Pakistan is fine by that and can also live without playing Cricket with them(clap) There will be no "limited war" rather the ultimate one. Question is does Bharat have the guts to attack Pakistan, I think not!
 
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Naj Khan

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Exactly, I am really surprised too. My guess is there could be some rouge element in PAK army who are doing this locally. Indian government tried to downplay this issue at first so as not to effect the peace process.

If (Allah na kare) they start a war then its a do or die situation for pakistan but they will not be sleeping for the rest of their lives that is for sure. I'm sure all these jahadi groups who are working to de-estabalize our country will start their activities inside the country. at the moment if they are still not performing full flash, is because of pak army. once the army gets busy at border, these mofos will rise their heads. as they are funded by international forces, they will get a green signal to break the country from inside. besides no one gets the benefit with any kind of war so we should refrain thinking like this and get india to talk peacefully
 

drkjke

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
there can be some possible reasons why india has started this cross border tension and uss ki baasi karaahi main aik dum say ubaal uthaa hai. 1....America is leaving Afghanistan in 2014,they cant risk to leave afghanistan with Taliban and islamists incharge and Pakistan having upper hand in this region (in case some muslim generals come and make peace with Taliban ),this scenario is deadly for America and india so they want india to take charge in 2014 of this whole region .but kyaa laalay ki dhoti main itnaa dum hai that they start a big war in this region?lets see 2...second possibility is that America may want Kashmir problem settlement in this region before it leaves ,as kawshmir being the only flash point that can cause Pakistanis to rise up for jihad in future.which can reislamise them all...so like before it is possible that this india pak tension may be drama to make peoples mind more "accepting" to a major "peace" deal after war is "narrowly" avoided like it happened in kargil?at that time inspite of wanting musharaf did not have courage to settle Kashmir issue according to American wishes.but this time as democratic govt is in charge so its not difficult to take muslim league pti and some other parties to confidence and make line of control permamnent border /or make Kashmir an independent state (in this situation Pakistan suffers a lot as Pakistan border will shrink to GT road! 3...third possibility is that india is really gone mad and believes on hindu jotshis prophecies and thinks that this is the best time to "occupy" Pakistan (as pakistans army is preoccupied on western border with Afghanistan )...if that's eth case than accept an all out war within a year....in any case remember that wars need courage but wisdom and brain are more important and stronger than weapons and muscles...we must hit india where it hurts the most in case india attacks.we must take support of Sikhs ,cahoots gorkhas and under suppressed minorities of india like general zia did,we must choke india,s chicken neck point in its north east which can cut india in half.muslims presence in Burma and assam is a nightmare for india,we must use such things...and we must not be like 1965 when our "proud" president returned 2000 square kilometers of indian punjabs occupied land on united nations demand!imagine if this area was still in Pakistan what strategic benefits we would have?did india return any of Pakistani occupied areas in 10971?no!(kargil the origin of indus river was also occupied by india and never returned in 1971 war!) .than why we have such ghaddar rulers who always harm pakistans interests?
 

monh zorr

Minister (2k+ posts)
looks like Pakistani army is cooking trouble at the border. They are trying their best to derail the peace process and looks like they are succeeding .
معذرت کے ساتھ آپکی رائے سے اختلاف کرتا ہوں

انسان کو بات وہ کرنی چاہئے جس کی ٹھوس بنیاد ہو، کیا آپ نہیں جانتے کہ بکرم سنگھ کی موجودہ حیثیت،منموہن سنگھ اور سونیا گاندھی کی آشیر داد سے ہے،بحیثیت کمانڈر اسکی حیثیت ایک میجر سے بھی کم ہے، اور یہ بات اسکے نائب بھی اچھی طرح جانتے ہیں، یہی وجہ ہے کہ جب اس نے اپنے کمانڈروں سے کہا کہ انہوں نے پاکستان پر پوری قوت سے حملہ کیوں نہیں کیا تو وہ بیچارے صرف اسکی اس احمقانہ بات پر سر جھکا کر دل میں افسوس کرنے کے علاوہ کیا کر سکتے تھے، کیونکہ ،انہیں تو پتہ تھا کہ یہ ،،را کا ایک ڈرامہ ہے، اور اس طرح کی بلاوجہ اشتعال انگیزی کا کیا جواب ہوسکتا ہے،

رہی پاکستانی فوج ،،تو عرض یہ ہے کہ یہ کیوں ، امن مذاکرات ،وغیرہ کو ناکام کرنے کی کوشش کرے گی،؟ یہ تو آپ نے بہت ہی عجیب بات کی،،فوج کا اس قسم کے معاملات سے کیا تعلق اور وہ بھی پاکستانی فوج کا،،حد ہے جناب،، آپکے پاس کوئی ثبوت ہو تو پیش کریں
 

deltaforce

Senator (1k+ posts)
looks like Pakistani army is cooking trouble at the border. They are trying their best to derail the peace process and looks like they are succeeding .


shant ho jao mahabali bhim shant oh i mean zionist hindu bhai , mahaul ko aur garm nahi karo ,hum shanti ki puja karne wale log hai , hamaara kam pakistan ko ek peaceful country banane me madad karna hai .pakistan ke jo peaceful log hai unko mazboot banane ke liye koi bhi galat statement nahi dena chahiye.khuda peaceful pakistani logo ke saath hai jo baqwas karte hai unhe karne do.khuda ke fazal se pakistan me ek aisa admi prime minister bana hai jo sacha banda hai aur aman banaye rakhne me yakeen karta hai.
 
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