IK: Work-in-Progress - An Article by Najam Sethi on Imran Khan's Interview

[blatant]

Re: IK: Work-in-Progress - Najam Sethi

Yes Jinnah sought a state for muslims based on islamic principles so apostates like you can take a hike instead of trying to hijack Pakistan. A cunning thief and a compuslive liar may also have the ability to run the state better than "islamic dudes" so will you allow that? Sharabi kababi irreligious people running Pakistan may not be an issue for secular apostates but it sure is for us.

mullah ji, i have been listening to the likes of you for past some time to actually figure out if there is any substance behind these rhetorics. one of your stalwarts by the name of hafiz saeed, that man MAY BE a genuine person by heart only Allah knows, but as far as communication is concerned, and as far as conveying his point of view, all i heard was jibberish. he was speaking the language of a common man out on the street who gathers his knowledge about things by street rhetoric only. i felt sad because prior to listening to him for the first time, i was actually thinking that this person might have some substance.
anyway

coming back to the point. mate ! your so called mullah party, or religiously portraying people in pakistan, they are some of the most corrupt people themselves. i have heard of accounts from people who have interacted with some of these figures in person behind cameras, and they are bad bad people with serious psycopathologies, almost at par with your conventional politicians. mate ! you have to bear in mind that we are not talking about your average tablighi jamat guy who is without doubt a genuine person wanting to lead a peaceful life blah blah blah. instead, the very people running these so called islamic centres of different breads and groups are actually scavangers themselves scavanging on religious sentiment of common people.

same is true for most religions today. church in christianity is playing the same role as mullahs in islam, and so is the hindu sadhu in india. your religion is your quran and sunnat in ur hands, and you DO NOT NEED a third mullah to explain to you what reality is.

so , the crux then is. you want a person who should run this country. give some names. let the people of country decide themselves how capable they think these people are. if you dont have any candidates to match, then stop calling wolf then. this simply doesnt work any more you see.

 

[ConcernedPaki]

A very cautious article by Sethi! :) One another note, anyone who is willing to learn and get better is always a work-in-progress. Just look around and see Nawaz and Zardari. They are a work-in-shambles!

 

[ASQR1]

Re: IK: Work-in-Progress - Najam Sethi

I think what Pakistan is today *IS* a low blow to Jinnah's legacy. As for myself, I live in Lahore, Pakistan. Should I take your misjudgment of my citizenship as evidence of other misjudgments as well?

I am very surprised about you living in Lahore. you should move to India and learn how the treat Muslims, than you will have an Idea about secularism that you talk about so much. Secularism is a concoction by those who are egnostic and are selfish and greedy people.

let me expalian. when you look at it closely where there is secularism they use this to insult, annihilate and hide under it. In India they use this to fool others, in facts India is a very extreme Hindu country , the proof is in the pudding. if you what I mean.

in most Europeans countries they call them selves secular, but when talking about religion the say that their country is a Christian country, you remember about Dutch leader who called Islam names and repeatedly Insulted Islam, and the pity is that he was called on by many Europeans to talk about his cacamany beliefs in which he lied and insulted Islam.

Watch and learn that Qaid spoke Urdu.



.

can I ask you if I may that are you a Muslim. I know you live in Lahore, which area of Lahore to confirm that you do live in Lahore, nothing more.

 

[lurker]

Re: IK: Work-in-Progress - Najam Sethi

I am very surprised about you living in Lahore. you should move to India and learn how the treat Muslims, than you will have an Idea about secularism that you talk about so much. Secularism is a concoction by those who are egnostic and are selfish and greedy people.

Yeah, go to Jinnah's grave and tell him that he was wrong at the constituent assembly.

This is excerpts from Jinnah's Presidential address To the Constituent assembly 11th August 1947 Karachi. Not some high school or some mosque or some hospital.

"Now, if we want to make this great State of Pakistan happy and prosperous we should wholly and solely concentrate on the wellbeing of the people, and especially of the masses and the poor. If you will work in cooperation, forgetting the past, burying the hatchet you are bound to succeed. If you change your past and work together in a spirit that every one of you, no matter to what community he belongs, no matter what relations he had with you in the past, no matter what is his colour, caste or creed, is first, second and last a citizen of this state with equal rights, privileges and obligations, there will be no end to the progress you will make."

Thats Secularism.

"I cannot emphasise it too much. We should begin to work in that spirit and in the course of time all these angularities of the majority and minority communities, the Hindu community and the Muslim community - because even as regards Muslims you have Pathans, Punjabis, Shias, Sunnis and so on and among the Hindus you have Brahmins, Vashnavas, Khatris, also Bengalis, Madrasis, and so on - will vanish. Indeed, if you ask me this has been the biggest hindrance in the way of India to attain freedom and independence and but for this we would have been free peoples long long ago. "

Jinnah calls Segregation based on religious and caste lines as the Biggest hindrance in the way of attaining freedom. Thats Secularism.

"Therefore, we must learn a lesson from this. You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other places of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed - that has nothing to do with the business of the State. "

Constitution of Pakistan Article 62 section (d) and (e) state:
A person shall not be qualified to be elected or chosen as a member of Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament) unless :-
(d) he is of good character and is not commonly known as one who violates Islamic Injunctions;
(e) he has adequate knowledge of Islamic teachings and practises obligatory duties prescribed by Islam as well as abstains from major sins ;

^This is in clear violation of what Jinnah just spoke. This is just one of the reasons why I say, that Jinnah's Pakistan died. This is some other man's Pakistan. I don't know why they hang Jinnah's pictures around.

"As you know, history shows that in England conditions, some time ago, were much worse than those prevailing in India today. The Roman Catholics and the Protestants persecuted each other. Even now there are some States in existence where there are discrimination made and bars imposed against a particular class. Thank God, we are not starting in those days. We are starting in the days when there is no discrimination, no distinction between one community and another, no discrimination between one caste or creed and another. We are starting with this fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one state. (Loud applause.)The people of England in the course of time had to face the realities of the situation and had to discharge the responsibilities and burdens placed upon them by the government of their country and they went through that fire step by step. Today, you might say with justice that Roman Catholics and Protestants do not exist; what exists now is that every man is a citizen, an equal citizen of Great Britain and they are all members of the nation."

Jinnah gives an example of Great Britain. Just to highlight his point for Secularism.

"Now, I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in the course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State."

Again, Secularism. Jinnah dedicated paragraph upon paragraph for sending home his point. You can read the entire speech if you like. I did not quote bits and pieces to make a case for secularism, the entire speech is talking about it.
http://jinnaharchive.com/docs/doc/1947/01471108.htm

 

[desan]

Re: IK: Work-in-Progress - Najam Sethi

Actually, you have said the most illogical thing. It is most likely that the "cunning thief" and the "liar" will do the same when in government and will rob the nation or perform poorly. It is MOST LIKELY. That's why we should avoid such people.

But we have these people running (ruining) our country and they got elected in the presence of 62/63. The question is not it's use but rather it's misuse.

 

[colorbirdss]

could careless about najam's views.

 

[amber123]

Imran's interview with Najam Sethi shows his progressive pragmatic approach towards state and relevant issues in a very dynamic environment particularly for Pakistan which has always been the center of global issues since its independence in the forms of Alliance - CEATO, CENTO, RCD, Non-NATO Allay, its important role in Sino-US relations or the US-Soviet tension in this region.

Related to Pakistan's political dynamics and determining its fuctions and practices within Islamic barometer is a very complex debate. Constitution of Pakistan is an amalgamation of secular and relgious subjects. It is neither Islamic nor secular in a true sense but a mix of both as Islamic clauses were added as par demand and pressure and for political accomodation. Its 62/63 clauses require Islamic practices while the public constituency does not believe in these issue by large. Moreover feudal, ethnic, sectarian, bradary and monetry influenecs jeopardise the spirit of such clauses. To apply 62/63 we need a bottom up approach to set a mode of election/slection thorugh a body or consituency fulfilling these clauses.

Pakistan is not a theocratic states since its inception. Pakistan was created to get a separate home land for the Muslim people to exercise their legislative/political rights, which was denied in a Hindu majority polity. Hence the demand for separaete electorate came from Muslim community, does not reflect that Pakistan would be a theocratic state. There is a difference between a theocratic state and a secualr one ruled under a constitution enclosing a few Islamic provisions. Therefore people remain engaged in a complex debate of the need of secular syatem vs Islamic parctices. Pakistan constitution was compiled under secular aspiration and Islamic clauses were accommodated under protest or desperate efforts to set a constitution for the state.

IK's land reforms and tax collection programme is positive in a sense:i) to extend tax domain;and ii) to fix a base line for taxable income across the board irrespective the means of income - to eliminate land tax exemption. Both will enhance public trust on govt. taxation system and by enjoying public services inreturn,as promised part of the system.
Over all it was a leader's interview. Let's give him a chance.

 

[ASQR1]

Re: IK: Work-in-Progress - Najam Sethi

Yeah, go to Jinnah's grave and tell him that he was wrong at the constituent assembly.

This is excerpts from Jinnah's Presidential address To the Constituent assembly 11th August 1947 Karachi. Not some high school or some mosque or some hospital.

"Now, if we want to make this great State of Pakistan happy and prosperous we should wholly and solely concentrate on the wellbeing of the people, and especially of the masses and the poor. If you will work in cooperation, forgetting the past, burying the hatchet you are bound to succeed. If you change your past and work together in a spirit that every one of you, no matter to what community he belongs, no matter what relations he had with you in the past, no matter what is his colour, caste or creed, is first, second and last a citizen of this state with equal rights, privileges and obligations, there will be no end to the progress you will make."

Thats Secularism.

And you think that secularism will fix the above problem, I think you are living in a cocoon, let bring you out of it, it not secularism that we needs, Pakistan needs honest and smart and intelligent who are selfless and honest and have some Islamic values the values of hazarat Umar R.A.

"I cannot emphasise it too much. We should begin to work in that spirit and in the course of time all these angularities of the majority and minority communities, the Hindu community and the Muslim community - because even as regards Muslims you have Pathans, Punjabis, Shias, Sunnis and so on and among the Hindus you have Brahmins, Vashnavas, Khatris, also Bengalis, Madrasis, and so on - will vanish. Indeed, if you ask me this has been the biggest hindrance in the way of India to attain freedom and independence and but for this we would have been free peoples long long ago. "

Jinnah calls Segregation based on religious and caste lines as the Biggest hindrance in the way of attaining freedom. Thats Secularism.

And so does Islam, Jinnah aleays stressed on following Islam, need I show his videos to jog your memory.

"Therefore, we must learn a lesson from this. You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other places of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed - that has nothing to do with the business of the State. "

Constitution of Pakistan Article 62 section (d) and (e) state:
A person shall not be qualified to be elected or chosen as a member of Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament) unless :-
(d) he is of good character and is not commonly known as one who violates Islamic Injunctions;
(e) he has adequate knowledge of Islamic teachings and practises obligatory duties prescribed by Islam as well as abstains from major sins ;

^This is in clear violation of what Jinnah just spoke. This is just one of the reasons why I say, that Jinnah's Pakistan died. This is some other man's Pakistan. I don't know why they hang Jinnah's pictures around.

this is your interpretation of Jinnah's speeches, which in my opinion are wrong, and to clarify your strange curiosity I will ask all people on this forum to see who will they agree with, I can bet you they will agree with me, if so than this is democracy at WORK. ITY SHOULD BE ENOUGH FOR YOU TO STOP UNDERMINING Pakistan.

"As you know, history shows that in England conditions, some time ago, were much worse than those prevailing in India today. The Roman Catholics and the Protestants persecuted each other. Even now there are some States in existence where there are discrimination made and bars imposed against a particular class. Thank God, we are not starting in those days. We are starting in the days when there is no discrimination, no distinction between one community and another, no discrimination between one caste or creed and another. We are starting with this fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one state. (Loud applause.)The people of England in the course of time had to face the realities of the situation and had to discharge the responsibilities and burdens placed upon them by the government of their country and they went through that fire step by step. Today, you might say with justice that Roman Catholics and Protestants do not exist; what exists now is that every man is a citizen, an equal citizen of Great Britain and they are all members of the nation."

Jinnah gives an example of Great Britain. Just to highlight his point for Secularism.

Great Britain is still trying to grapple with it problems that you talk about, in todays Britain there are prevalent racism against Islam, against people who are not white. even Irish and Scottish are divided about Britain's role in their parts of the U.K.

"Now, I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in the course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State."

Again, Secularism. Jinnah dedicated paragraph upon paragraph for sending home his point. You can read the entire speech if you like. I did not quote bits and pieces to make a case for secularism, the entire speech is talking about it.
http://jinnaharchive.com/docs/doc/1947/01471108.htm

Again you are misinterpreting Qaid, he meant that Religion is a personal part of all humans and that when they live in a country they will live as those who abide by laws of the land and not bring in their personal concocted acts into it this why in Pakistan is suffering and those who are our supposedly guardians are corrupt and selfish and greedy and doing every thing against constitution of Pakistan.

Now Let me put up the speech of Jinnah that you write avbout, but the pity is the you only write the part you like and do not write the whole speech, so here it is.


I think he has been misquoted. There is only one speech on record [about the subject] - and that is on 11 August 1947 - when Pakistan had already been announced [as a state]", Hamid Gul said. "Then, in the Constituent Assembly, he made a speech, saying: 'In the new state of Pakistan, everyone will be equal before the law, and people will cease to be Muslims and cease to be Hindus, in the eyes of the law'. "But what law did he mean? He meant Islamic law. Implicitly - he was clear in his mind - he implied that it would be Islamic law. So I think Jinnah has been misquoted...[Jinnah] is quite clear that he did not want a Muslim nation-state. He wanted an Islamic state".

Learn and be enlightened.

 

[lurker]

But nobody is equal under Islamic law. And how does religion not having anything to do with the state pan out as misinterpretation ?
More over, do you think Jinnah was a 5 time praying guy with a long beard who preformed hajj after hajj and wanted to see nothing but a khilafat restored?? :P

Please, the man even gave examples. And they weren't remotely even Islamic. That's why i said Jinnah is not the founder of your Pakistan.

 

[ASQR1]

But nobody is equal under Islamic law. And how does religion not having anything to do with the state pan out as misinterpretation ?
More over, do you think Jinnah was a 5 time praying guy with a long beard who preformed hajj after hajj and wanted to see nothing but a khilafat restored?? :P

Please, the man even gave examples. And they weren't remotely even Islamic. That's why i said Jinnah is not the founder of your Pakistan.

U.R. Assuming again under Islamic law in the beginning there were many other religious believers who lived in amuslim countries, but you do not want accept that.

I will give you one instance of history and than will let you sweat about it a you will not like and will try to find faults with it, whereas those non muslims effected by it praise Muslim rule as the best they ever lived under.


The instance is Spanish Inquisition.

i have many more who claim to be secular and how they anhilated others under the guise of so called secularism. But let us see if you know any thing about this inquisition.


about 5 times prayers it is your personal act that if you believe will help you on the day of judgement than you do it or do what ever you think is right, only you pay for what you do in this life and here after.

and talking about Jinnah's personal matters is like back biting, why do you do it, you being secular keep taking bad about Jinnah, what is this, you should be mind full of such allegations. Besides it was his personal matter, what you need to talk about is his gift to Muslims odd India and not his personal matters. Cupish dude.

 

[lurker]

U.R. Assuming again under Islamic law in the beginning there were many other religious believers who lived in amuslim countries, but you do not want accept that.
I will give you one instance of history and than will let you sweat about it a you will not like and will try to find faults with it, whereas those non muslims effected by it praise Muslim rule as the best they ever lived under.

The instance is Spanish Inquisition.

What about the Spanish Inquisition? It just solidifies the point that Theocracy stopped working. The question is NOT if these other faith people were happy under Islamic Governance or not, the question is that Jinnah used the word "Equal" and "Citizen". You cannot be Equal under Islamic Law. You are segregated based on Faith lines.
"You may belong to any religion or caste or creed - that has nothing to do with the business of the State. "

If the Pakistan of today is NOT a betrayal to Jinnah, I don't know what is. Hence, you should just proclaim He was NOT the father of your nation.

about 5 times prayers it is your personal act that if you believe will help you on the day of judgement than you do it or do what ever you think is right, only you pay for what you do in this life and here after.

and talking about Jinnah's personal matters is like back biting, why do you do it, you being secular keep taking bad about Jinnah, what is this, you should be mind full of such allegations. Besides it was his personal matter, what you need to talk about is his gift to Muslims odd India and not his personal matters. Cupish dude.

Why am I talking about the Personal matters of faith of Jinnah? Because Article 62 of the Pakistani Constitution entitles me to. You see had you followed Jinnah's "You may belong to any religion or caste or creed - that has nothing to do with the business of the State. " I would not have to talk about this. ;) But since you guys LOVE having Islam meddle with the State, then by all means please accept your betrayal fully. It's alright. I mean you didn't agree with Jinnah at all, just say it. Accept it. All I ask is that you NOT say he was the father of your state. That's all. Such a small thing, right?

 

[ASQR1]

What about the Spanish Inquisition? It just solidifies the point that Theocracy stopped working. The question is NOT if these other faith people were happy under Islamic Governance or not, the question is that Jinnah used the word "Equal" and "Citizen". You cannot be Equal under Islamic Law. You are segregated based on Faith lines.
"You may belong to any religion or caste or creed - that has nothing to do with the business of the State. "

If the Pakistan of today is NOT a betrayal to Jinnah, I don't know what is. Hence, you should just proclaim He was NOT the father of your nation.




Why am I talking about the Personal matters of faith of Jinnah? Because Article 62 of the Pakistani Constitution entitles me to. You see had you followed Jinnah's "You may belong to any religion or caste or creed - that has nothing to do with the business of the State. " I would not have to talk about this. ;) But since you guys LOVE having Islam meddle with the State, then by all means please accept your betrayal fully. It's alright. I mean you didn't agree with Jinnah at all, just say it. Accept it. All I ask is that you NOT say he was the father of your state. That's all. Such a small thing, right?

you again mention half of his quote, to add to your quote to complete it he further said that Pakistan will be amuslim state but individuals will cease to be....................................


again you are misquoting constitution and you are acting like those rude people that you so are against, you need to learn that articles in constitution are to be used not to denigrate but to make a point by keeping personal attack out, this is what is being civil and have mannerism.

i am not convinced that you live in Lahore as you are so against everything Pakistan, so tell me which area of Lahore you. And if you are not so keen on living in Pakistan and keep nit picking than you should move to India.

your chosen country's act Pakistani know very well and we know that they do not hesitate killing Muslim as they did in Gujrat and willingly choose the killer as. Their Leader.

So goog luck and good bye.

 

[lurker]

you again mention half of his quote, to add to your quote to complete it he further said that Pakistan will be amuslim state but individuals will cease to be....................................

I have linked the ENTIRE speech. If you were even remotely interested in Jinnah, you would've read it. I have quoted paragraph upon paragraph from this address. He even goes on to give an example of Great Britain. Further more he uses this as an example of how we should be. I treat every man, woman and child in Pakistan as a Pakistani - Not Muslim. Not Hindu. Not Jew. Not Sikh. Everyone gets my Equal due. That is what is called a United Pakistan. Not what you have today where there are divisions within Islam - Shia, Sunni, Ismaili, etc. Divisions along language lines. Divisions based on Caste. Divisions based on ethnicity. This is the Pakistan of Today. This is NOT jinnah's Pakistan. This is *YOUR* Pakistan. That's why I said, you should hang somebody else's picture on the walls. Put somebody else's face on the currency notes.

And what have I misquoted. Its a direct copy-paste from his speech. The source is included. Goto Jinnah Library, you'll find the same speech. No misquotation. *You* doubt the words of the father of the nation? As I've said before there is NO CHANCE of even a misinterpretation because Jinnah gave paragraph upon paragraph with secular examples.

"Now, I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in the course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State."

Here he even says that we should keep that (Great Britain's example of Equal Citizenship) as an Ideal. I think you should goto his grave and either tell him that he was wrong or profess that you were wrong. Both of you cannot possibly be right.

I think every Pakistani needs to make a conscious choice - What are you going to be? A Muslim first and Pakistani later? Or are you a Pakistani first and Muslim later? Given the sorry state of our personal identities in Pakistan today, I think most people will say that they are Muslims first and Pakistani later. And that gentlemen is the crux of our entire existence within Pakistan. It's a tough one to resolve. If you are muslim first, you are not in Jinnah's fold. That would mean Pakistan is NOT your identity. Islam is.

You guys even have an awesome example of progressive Turkey. But I don't know whats your aversion to prosperity?

 

[ASQR1]

I have linked the ENTIRE speech. If you were even remotely interested in Jinnah, you would've read it. I have quoted paragraph upon paragraph from this address. He even goes on to give an example of Great Britain. Further more he uses this as an example of how we should be. I treat every man, woman and child in Pakistan as a Pakistani - Not Muslim. Not Hindu. Not Jew. Not Sikh. Everyone gets my Equal due. That is what is called a United Pakistan. Not what you have today where there are divisions within Islam - Shia, Sunni, Ismaili, etc. Divisions along language lines. Divisions based on Caste. Divisions based on ethnicity. This is the Pakistan of Today. This is NOT jinnah's Pakistan. This is *YOUR* Pakistan. That's why I said, you should hang somebody else's picture on the walls. Put somebody else's face on the currency notes.

And what have I misquoted. Its a direct copy-paste from his speech. The source is included. Goto Jinnah Library, you'll find the same speech. No misquotation. *You* doubt the words of the father of the nation? As I've said before there is NO CHANCE of even a misinterpretation because Jinnah gave paragraph upon paragraph with secular examples.

"Now, I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in the course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State."

Here he even says that we should keep that (Great Britain's example of Equal Citizenship) as an Ideal. I think you should goto his grave and either tell him that he was wrong or profess that you were wrong. Both of you cannot possibly be right.

I think every Pakistani needs to make a conscious choice - What are you going to be? A Muslim first and Pakistani later? Or are you a Pakistani first and Muslim later? Given the sorry state of our personal identities in Pakistan today, I think most people will say that they are Muslims first and Pakistani later. And that gentlemen is the crux of our entire existence within Pakistan. It's a tough one to resolve. If you are muslim first, you are not in Jinnah's fold. That would mean Pakistan is NOT your identity. Islam is.

You guys even have an awesome example of progressive Turkey. But I don't know whats your aversion to prosperity?

if you say Pakistani first than you commit yourself to lasani problems and we see it so prevalent today, the main reason for divisions among Pakistanis. the idea of Jinnah was to create a home land for Muslims, But you keep saying no the ideas was to create a secular state, I think you are so possessed by secularism that you are not seeing what he worked hard for.

it is people with this kind of stripes that they opted to make Bangladesh because they failed to see the truth of Qaid instead they got trapped by greed and by false Indian propaganda.

You keep blaming common man in Pakistan for the ills of it, but you fail to really point your figure on those who really are responsible of the state of affaire in todays Pakistan, Pakistani are willing to make a conscious choice but today Leaders hoard, abused , refuse and threaten folks to do fulfill their greedy desires and do no spec of sympathy for Pakistani nation.

turkey is progressing because they were lucky to get good leaders and Pakistan has yet to get those, but hopefully in the next elections this might come true. you need to stop blaming common man and put blame where it ought to be. If you will not talk the truth than no use talking to you because all you want to do is blame poor abused Pakistani's who have no control and are used as animals.

Great Britain ahs its own problems you need to hear it from George Galloway to really know the truth about Britain and if you do not know than I will introduce him to you, you need to learn a lot about this World and you need to get out of you cocoon.

YOU talk about divisions in Islam I need to educate you that in every country there are divisions but they are kept together by good leaders, if you knew about US and Europe you will never say what you say about Muslims.

You only dwell on things that you think need to be dwelled on but those things are your deduction based ion your limited knowledge of this world, if you knew this world than you would never insult Pakistanis and Islam

 

[lurker]

if you say Pakistani first than you commit yourself to lasani problems and we see it so prevalent today, the main reason for divisions among Pakistanis.

Look, your language does not unite you. Your Islam does not unite you. Your ethnicity does not unite you. Your culture does not unite you. So what's left? Nationalism.

As for leaders, you GOT a good leader - His name was Mohammad Ali Jinnah. However you totally disregarded his leadership when it mattered the most. Even today you just threw away his entire vision, his speech. Putting it under the rug of misquotations or misinterpretations.. although I don't know how that's even possible, given how much examples and context the man provided within the same speech. 1+1=2. But when a Pakistani leader asks Pakistanis what does 1+1= ? They say 11 and then say Islam is the answer for all things in the same breath. All I can say is, Mashallah. :)

 

[ASQR1]

Look, your language does not unite you. Your Islam does not unite you. Your ethnicity does not unite you. Your culture does not unite you. So what's left? Nationalism.

As for leaders, you GOT a good leader - His name was Mohammad Ali Jinnah. However you totally disregarded his leadership when it mattered the most. Even today you just threw away his entire vision, his speech. Putting it under the rug of misquotations or misinterpretations.. although I don't know how that's even possible, given how much examples and context the man provided within the same speech. 1+1=2. But when a Pakistani leader asks Pakistanis what does 1+1= ? They say 11 and then say Islam is the answer for all things in the same breath. All I can say is, Mashallah. :)

you keep talking about one thing and one thing alone and do not want to see the whole picture I presented to you, I told you time and time again tat leaders after leader in Pakistan looted, undermined and do not give a hoot about Pakistan and Islam.

i bet you that Islam is the answer to all the problem, the pity is that you or other like you do not want to see it implemented and therefore keep repeating themselves and keep discussing in circles the same matter already answer many times.

Reason for Qiad to help create Pakistan was to help Indian Muslims free them being selves of Hindu due to his extensive experience with Hindus his whole life.

i ask you to stop making matters worst for yourselves by talking in circles, so stop and work to help Pakistan come out of this quagmire as a winner and best country in this World.

 

[zaheerbabur]

Re: IK: Work-in-Progress - Najam Sethi

How can you say that articles 62 and 63 of the constitution are misuse of islam? How can you allow an openly sharabi kababi type irreligious person to run the "islamic" republic of Pakistan? The western type civil liberties and freedoms are not allowed in islam. Najam Sethi talks about Imran Khan sharing platform with hate spewing jihadists, obviously referring to DPC. Can he tell me what hate DPC spews other then their justified stance against India and US? All in all Imran Khan should steer clear from these seculars like Najam Sethi.

owe molvi owe islami, Pakistan was never made as Islamic republic, yeh tum jaisay ***** molvis nay iss shandar mulk ka baira garaq kar diya haey, tum jaisay chotay aur bund damagh molvi iss par kabza kar kay baith gay ho...jis mulk ka baira barbad karwana ho us main tum jaisay molvi aur band damagh kay tum jaisay aa jatay hain aur uss mulk ka hashar kar daitay hain......this country was excellent before 1979 when a ghasib general nay tum jaisay molvis ko sath mila kar iss ko barbad kar diya hay aur abb saree qoum uss ko bhugat rahee hay, pls cchor do iss mulk ki jan aur kahee aur chalay jao......

 

[lurker]

you keep talking about one thing and one thing alone and do not want to see the whole picture I presented to you, I told you time and time again tat leaders after leader in Pakistan looted, undermined and do not give a hoot about Pakistan and Islam.

I am ONLY interested in what you did to Mohammad Ali Jinnah. I am not interested in Zardari, any other general, nawaz sharif, imran khan, altaf hussein or whoever. Everyone looted because you started setting up your Islamic shop. And that too in a half attempted fashion.

i bet you that Islam is the answer to all the problem.

What is that an Oxymoron? I thought Islam had no betting? You see? Even in a simple statement you betray your own cause. Islam had its time on this planet. It got its time in the lime light with all the successes and finally the downfalls. Thats it. Game over. Now the world is a nationalistic stage. You go anywhere in the Islamic world thumping your Islamic faith, you'll see nobody even gives you any importance. The Islamic world itself has moved on... while in Pakistan, Pakistanis still are living their pipe dreams of Islamism. A dream for them, a nightmare for their fellow citizens.

The betrayal of Jinnah continues.

 

[zaheerbabur]

I am ONLY interested in what you did to Mohammad Ali Jinnah. I am not interested in Zardari, any other general, nawaz sharif, imran khan, altaf hussein or whoever. Everyone looted because you started setting up your Islamic shop. And that too in a half attempted fashion.


What is that an Oxymoron? I thought Islam had no betting? You see? Even in a simple statement you betray your own cause. Islam had its time on this planet. It got its time in the lime light with all the successes and finally the downfalls. Thats it. Game over. Now the world is a nationalistic stage. You go anywhere in the Islamic world thumping your Islamic faith, you'll see nobody even gives you any importance. The Islamic world itself has moved on... while in Pakistan, Pakistanis still are living their pipe dreams of Islamism. A dream for them, a nightmare for their fellow citizens.

The betrayal of Jinnah continues.

100% agreed, this muulah has made the hell of Pakistan, it was never Islamic, these people don't study history, just listening to jamat islami and other molvis and start believing on them, I again agree:

The betrayal of Jinnah continues.

 

[ASQR1]

I am ONLY interested in what you did to Mohammad Ali Jinnah. I am not interested in Zardari, any other general, nawaz sharif, imran khan, altaf hussein or whoever. Everyone looted because you started setting up your Islamic shop. And that too in a half attempted fashion.


What is that an Oxymoron? I thought Islam had no betting? You see? Even in a simple statement you betray your own cause. Islam had its time on this planet. It got its time in the lime light with all the successes and finally the downfalls. Thats it. Game over. Now the world is a nationalistic stage. You go anywhere in the Islamic world thumping your Islamic faith, you'll see nobody even gives you any importance. The Islamic world itself has moved on... while in Pakistan, Pakistanis still are living their pipe dreams of Islamism. A dream for them, a nightmare for their fellow citizens.

The betrayal of Jinnah continues.

You have no clue about history and if History is not remembered than it will bite you where it hurts the most, Islam is not outdated you have no clue about Islam, Islamic rules are applied by many without giving due credit to it, is a horrendous cover up, let me inform you about it.

In Scandinavia Leaders walk the streets and mingle with citizens they way Khulfa-e- rashedeen did it, in America govt. looks after poor, handicap, old and students, if they need help exactly like Khulaf-E- rashedeen. Even some of the world leader live in small houses example set by Khufla-e- Rashedeen.

distribution of wealth where based on example set by Khufla-E-Rashedeen is the best system in todays world. Need I say more, but I know you will oppose this because you live in a cocoon and will not agree as you are agnostic and do not see the truth.