IK: Work-in-Progress - An Article by Najam Sethi on Imran Khan's Interview
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WatanDost
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: IK: Work-in-Progress - Najam Sethi
مجھ سے اکثر پوچھا جاتا ہے کہ پاکستان کا طرز حکومت کیا ہوگا؟ پاکستان کے طرز حکومت کا تعین کرنے والا میں کون ہوتا ہوں۔ مسلمانوں کا طرز حکومت آج سے تیرہ سو سال قبل قرآن کریم نے وضاحت کے ساتھ بیان کر دیا تھا۔ الحمد للہ ، قرآن مجید ہماری رہنمائی کے لیے موجود ہے اور قیامت تک موجود رہے گا
Dear read it AGAIN,
Pay attention and DIFFERENTIATE between
Personnel beliefs and STATE Governance , both are totally different subjects.
مجھ سے اکثر پوچھا جاتا ہے کہ پاکستان کا طرز حکومت کیا ہوگا؟ پاکستان کے طرز حکومت کا تعین کرنے والا میں کون ہوتا ہوں۔ مسلمانوں کا طرز حکومت آج سے تیرہ سو سال قبل قرآن کریم نے وضاحت کے ساتھ بیان کر دیا تھا۔ الحمد للہ ، قرآن مجید ہماری رہنمائی کے لیے موجود ہے اور قیامت تک موجود رہے گا
Dear read it AGAIN,
Pay attention and DIFFERENTIATE between
Personnel beliefs and STATE Governance , both are totally different subjects.
adnan_younus
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: IK: Work-in-Progress - Najam Sethi
tats the issue with sadiq or ameen... how will one prove if some one is sadiq or ameen.. at present .. even zardari is not guilty of any thing... tat article is unimplmentable.. shud be removed as there is already an article tat says no convicts....
tats the issue with sadiq or ameen... how will one prove if some one is sadiq or ameen.. at present .. even zardari is not guilty of any thing... tat article is unimplmentable.. shud be removed as there is already an article tat says no convicts....
Mullah Omar
Minister (2k+ posts)
Mullah Omar
Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: IK: Work-in-Progress - Najam Sethi
similarly how can you allow a morally corrupt person to run an islamic country. Like i said this may be fine for secular non muslims but not for us.
Re: IK: Work-in-Progress - Najam Sethi
No, I disagree with you. To me, the speech to the constiuent assembly is more important, and more definitive. Your quotation is generic. The quote I provide is not simply personal opinion, but concerns business of state. It is a quote about the DIRECTION which Pakistan was about to take in its founder's mind.
Quaid says definitely that a citizen's religion "has nothing to do with the business of the state", whether it is Islam, Hinduism, Sikhism, or any other faith. It further says that politically, people would not be differentiated based on religion alone! This is the most appropriate definition of secularism, in which a state does not concern itself with the religion of its citizens.
In today's Pakistan, RELIGION OF A PERSON DO MATTER. You can't be a PM or President or Army Chief if you are not a Muslim. This is against the saying of Qauid.
As to your quote, it is less important and it is generic. What is an Islamic system of governmence is different to different individuals. It is subjective.
So take it as it is. For Qauid, an Islamic system of governance was a secular way of governance, without any interference from religion in state matters.
That's how you can reconcile the two statements.
No, I disagree with you. To me, the speech to the constiuent assembly is more important, and more definitive. Your quotation is generic. The quote I provide is not simply personal opinion, but concerns business of state. It is a quote about the DIRECTION which Pakistan was about to take in its founder's mind.
Quaid says definitely that a citizen's religion "has nothing to do with the business of the state", whether it is Islam, Hinduism, Sikhism, or any other faith. It further says that politically, people would not be differentiated based on religion alone! This is the most appropriate definition of secularism, in which a state does not concern itself with the religion of its citizens.
In today's Pakistan, RELIGION OF A PERSON DO MATTER. You can't be a PM or President or Army Chief if you are not a Muslim. This is against the saying of Qauid.
As to your quote, it is less important and it is generic. What is an Islamic system of governmence is different to different individuals. It is subjective.
So take it as it is. For Qauid, an Islamic system of governance was a secular way of governance, without any interference from religion in state matters.
That's how you can reconcile the two statements.
WatanDost
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: IK: Work-in-Progress - Najam Sethi
Sorry not Convincing, Here You go
Sorry not Convincing, Here You go
2 جنوری 1948 ء کو کراچی میں اخبارات کے نمائندوں سے بات کرتے ہوئے قائد اعظم نے ارشاد فرمایا :-
" اسلامی حکومت کے تصور کا یہ امتیاز پیش نظر رہنا چاہیے کہ اس میں اطاعت اور وفا کا مرکز اللہ تعالی کی ذات ہے جس کی تعمیل کا عملی ذریعہ قرآن کے احکام و اصول ہیں۔ اسلام میں اصلا نہ کسی بادشاہ کی اطاعت ہے نہ پارلیمنٹ کی نہ کسی شخص یا ادارے کی۔ قرآن کریم کے احکام ہی سیاست و معاشرت میں ہماری آزادی اور پابندی کی حدیں مقرر کر سکتے ہیں۔ دوسرے لفظوں میں اسلامی حکومت قرآنی احکام و اصولوں کی حکومت ہے "
14 فروری 1948 ء کو قائد اعظم نے بلوچستان میں خطاب کرتے ہوئے فرمایا :-
" میرا ایمان ہے کہ ہماری نجات کا واحد ذریعہ اس سنہری اصولوں والے ضابطہ ء عمل میں ہے جو ہمارے عظیم واضع قانون پیغمبر اسلام نے ہمارے لیے قائم کر رکھا ہے۔ ہمیں اپنی جمہوریت کی بنیادیں سچے اخلاقی اصولوں اور تصورات پر رکھنی چاہئیں۔ اسلام کا سبق یہ ہے کہ مملکت کے امور و مسائل کے بارے میں فیصلے باہمی بحث و تمحیص اور مشوروں سے کیا کرو۔"
13 اپریل 1948 ء کو اسلامیہ کالج پشاور میں تقریر کرتے ہوئے بانی پاکستان نے فرمایا:-
" ہم نے پاکستان کا مطالبہ زمین کا ایک ٹکڑا حاصل کرنے کے لیے نہیں کیا بلکہ ہم ایسی جائے پناہ چاہتے تھے جہاں ہم اسلامی اصولوں کے مطابق زندگی بسر کر سکیں"
" اسلامی حکومت کے تصور کا یہ امتیاز پیش نظر رہنا چاہیے کہ اس میں اطاعت اور وفا کا مرکز اللہ تعالی کی ذات ہے جس کی تعمیل کا عملی ذریعہ قرآن کے احکام و اصول ہیں۔ اسلام میں اصلا نہ کسی بادشاہ کی اطاعت ہے نہ پارلیمنٹ کی نہ کسی شخص یا ادارے کی۔ قرآن کریم کے احکام ہی سیاست و معاشرت میں ہماری آزادی اور پابندی کی حدیں مقرر کر سکتے ہیں۔ دوسرے لفظوں میں اسلامی حکومت قرآنی احکام و اصولوں کی حکومت ہے "
14 فروری 1948 ء کو قائد اعظم نے بلوچستان میں خطاب کرتے ہوئے فرمایا :-
" میرا ایمان ہے کہ ہماری نجات کا واحد ذریعہ اس سنہری اصولوں والے ضابطہ ء عمل میں ہے جو ہمارے عظیم واضع قانون پیغمبر اسلام نے ہمارے لیے قائم کر رکھا ہے۔ ہمیں اپنی جمہوریت کی بنیادیں سچے اخلاقی اصولوں اور تصورات پر رکھنی چاہئیں۔ اسلام کا سبق یہ ہے کہ مملکت کے امور و مسائل کے بارے میں فیصلے باہمی بحث و تمحیص اور مشوروں سے کیا کرو۔"
13 اپریل 1948 ء کو اسلامیہ کالج پشاور میں تقریر کرتے ہوئے بانی پاکستان نے فرمایا:-
" ہم نے پاکستان کا مطالبہ زمین کا ایک ٹکڑا حاصل کرنے کے لیے نہیں کیا بلکہ ہم ایسی جائے پناہ چاہتے تھے جہاں ہم اسلامی اصولوں کے مطابق زندگی بسر کر سکیں"
Re: IK: Work-in-Progress - Najam Sethi
I didn't know Mohammad Ali Jinnah spoke Urdu? That's news to me. :P
If a man stood up and said a few words in public; this carries different weight than a if a man stood up in the assembly and said different words. The Venue and time count. There is no doubt Jinnah wanted to separate Religion and State. Which is... drum roll please.... S-E-C-U-L-A-R-I-S-M. :) Unless you feel Mohammad Ali Jinnah was completely wrong about it.
I didn't know Mohammad Ali Jinnah spoke Urdu? That's news to me. :P
If a man stood up and said a few words in public; this carries different weight than a if a man stood up in the assembly and said different words. The Venue and time count. There is no doubt Jinnah wanted to separate Religion and State. Which is... drum roll please.... S-E-C-U-L-A-R-I-S-M. :) Unless you feel Mohammad Ali Jinnah was completely wrong about it.
WatanDost
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: IK: Work-in-Progress - Najam Sethi
LAME Excuse to Claim Secularism, 2 Nation Theory is A CLEAN CHIT of
Islamic PAKISTAN.
LAME Excuse to Claim Secularism, 2 Nation Theory is A CLEAN CHIT of
Islamic PAKISTAN.
Re: IK: Work-in-Progress - Najam Sethi
Too bad Jinnah went all secular when he went to the Assembly. Either he played you all for fools OR you all are inept at understanding plain english. Which one is it? Either way, Jinnah isn't the founding father of whatever it is you are pushing for.
Re: IK: Work-in-Progress - Najam Sethi
let me correct you on your first assumption that Did jinah speak urdu, go to Jonah's speaches in Lahore and you will than hear him deliver his speech in Urdu.
other thing you talk about jinah playing us for fool is a real low blow, Pakistan has been in existence for long time and you need to learn to be not only civilsed but truthfull, you Indians have a inbred habit of being shifty, it is therefore useless to expect a fair, truthfully and honest answer, but we the Pakistanis try our best to get you to commit to honest neighborly acts but you on every step of the way deceive us and or go back on your promises or interfere innourvaffairs with the help of foreigners.
My advise to you is to to start behaving as good neighbours and do the right thing, it very annoying to see neighbour blaming us of many hurrendous thing and even when truth is opposite to their blames and inuendos.
let me correct you on your first assumption that Did jinah speak urdu, go to Jonah's speaches in Lahore and you will than hear him deliver his speech in Urdu.
other thing you talk about jinah playing us for fool is a real low blow, Pakistan has been in existence for long time and you need to learn to be not only civilsed but truthfull, you Indians have a inbred habit of being shifty, it is therefore useless to expect a fair, truthfully and honest answer, but we the Pakistanis try our best to get you to commit to honest neighborly acts but you on every step of the way deceive us and or go back on your promises or interfere innourvaffairs with the help of foreigners.
My advise to you is to to start behaving as good neighbours and do the right thing, it very annoying to see neighbour blaming us of many hurrendous thing and even when truth is opposite to their blames and inuendos.
Najam Sethi is a kinda liberal which IK always refer to and he is very dangerous. He believes that religon (Islam) should not have a role in governing a State like a western concept seperation of rligion and state. While as Imran Khan's political philosphy is based on Alama Iqbals's political thought which is nothing but Islam and State together. Najam Sethi was very sneeky to throw this googly at Imran Khan and Imran tried to play dfensive but got himself LBW out that is how I saw it. I don't know about you.
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Star Gazer
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I think most of us knew that once the interview is done Najam sethi will spew the middle ground either left or right and make it look something which it is not.
You are so predictable Najam Sethi!
You are so predictable Najam Sethi!
only_truths
Minister (2k+ posts)
only_truths
Minister (2k+ posts)
(clap)(clap)
ps: I have always felt Jinnah was used only a catalyst, whereas the real founding fathers of Pakistan were hiding behind him.
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Hikmat Khan
Voter (50+ posts)
These are personal assumption/derivatives of Najam Setti. Islam can not be separated from state. PTI politics is pro-islamic. Thats why we think it different from ANP, PPP and MQM etc and also different from JUI.
Re: IK: Work-in-Progress - Najam Sethi
I think what Pakistan is today *IS* a low blow to Jinnah's legacy. As for myself, I live in Lahore, Pakistan. Should I take your misjudgment of my citizenship as evidence of other misjudgments as well?
I think what Pakistan is today *IS* a low blow to Jinnah's legacy. As for myself, I live in Lahore, Pakistan. Should I take your misjudgment of my citizenship as evidence of other misjudgments as well?
The real founding fathers of Pakistan are the Mullah people. I don't know why they keep hanging the picture of Secular Jinnah everywhere. Its not his state since 1956. Some Mullahs who couldn't accomplish Pakistan on their own figured it would be easy to hijack someone else's work and call it Islamic Republic of Pakistan. And their quest is still ongoing. They should seriously remove Jinnah's pictures from all currency notes. Rename to country to Islamistan. Write down in History books how they freed the country from this man Jinnah's secularism satanistic ideologies.
