"Haan Mai Mujrim Houn" - Marvi Sirmid defends her stance against Nazriya'e Pakistan

[mrcritic]

can't be bothered to read this b****!!! she is too busy f***** Nusrat Javed - what more garbage can you expect..

 

[CanadianDesi]

Does she know the meaning of the ayat she quoted. Islam is not only a religion it is a 'DEEN' meaning the way of life and the rules of this way were set by Allah in quran. We have to follow these rules with no exceptions. Homosexuality is haram then it is haram no need to give a second thought. If she says that two persons are allowed to do what ever they want to do in private then go and eat pork in private. Every haram thing can be halal in private. In the column Abdul Qadir Hasan rightly mentioned if it was not the two nation theory then bangalies should become a part of india but they kept on following the two nation theory and make another Islamic country rather then merge with their cultural haritage of bengal.

 

[usm100]

That was the whole concept of the article. We cannot hear any argument. We dont want to get into practical world. We love saying the other they are agents etc etc. To heck with that mental sickness and to heck with all those kids who dont have a brain to understand.

I didn't care to read the whole article . I thought it would be a video . I did read the first line ... ye gaali galoch ki baat kar rahi hai ? Ye jab bhi kisi show main bethi hai ... apnay say ikhtalaaf karnay waalay kay sath itni hiqarat say baat ki hai is nay kay agar main us show main betha hota tau iska mu noch leta . there is a thing called " dialogue" ... then there is a thing called " LINE " ... no one and I mean NO ONE , NO COUNTRY would allow her to deny the faith , masses of that country beleive in , she has crossed that line .
On a show last night she said " if two adults are involved in homosexuality , that is no sin " . I mean , obviously she doesn't beleive in Islam .. she denys Qur'an . Why dialogue with her then .
She is more than welcome to start her own religion and preach people in her own facility ... but by bringing her on tv shows and let her tarnish image of a known fact that was freed for Muslim majority with other religious minorities BUT was and still is ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF PAKISTAN.
She refused to accept the 2 nation theory ...fine... obviously if she is working on Indian agenda , she is gonna say that and people tried talking sense into her with dialogue .. but for Allah and the faith we follow , we have to listen to this garbage in the name of democracy ? That's BULL S-H-I-T .
I say let her swim back to India ... and send a note " Thank you for trying out your product but it's too filthy and contains contageous aids like disease for our markets" ;)

 

[pak4rule]

Academic and Pakistani definitions of some important terms

Secularism
Real definition:
Separation of religion and state. So that followers of majority religion or sect dont oppress and subjugate minorities. State should make it possible that every citizen has complete freedom of religion and enjoys equal rights. State cant discriminate among its citizens on the basis of religion. Forget about non muslim minorities, just look at Iran and KSA where rights of minority muslim sects are violated.

My dear brother Moazzamniaz,

Although you seems very literate and good in politics but my dear if you have studies Islam and knows what is meant to be muslim you wont be saying what you have said and you wont even support Marvi.

before commenting on my post, plz first just for a while take me as impartial person.

I just wanna tell you one simple thing, I hope you must have known this but for some reason wont remember that we are MUSLIMS.

Muslim means = " A follower of the religion of Islam "

For instance, eating a meal, bathing , entering a house, meeting with people,and other individual or social activities a muslim follows islamic way.
In Islam there is no concept of seperation of religion and politics too.

My dear brother plz just realise that being muslim we HAVE to follow the ways Allah has given us , in quran and through our beloved prophet PBUH.
If we are not following then remember that we will be questioned at the day of judgment. Its our firm faith and believe.

Islam is beautiful religion, and many non-Muslim, Atheist , christians , hindus converting to islam coz they have been to the ugliness of such secularism or atheism


Kindly first see the purpose of being a muslim to live a life according to Allah's ways and sunnah then comment on other idealogy.

we are seeing problems , bloodshed in our society just because non of us spending our lives truly according to Allah's ways, once we start doing we will have our golden times back.


We dare Allah by doing all those things which HE prohebited and dislike, we get pleasure in doing all such things.

Enjoying our lives is so much important for us that we dont even care whether it will make Allah angry or happy.


My dearest, just for a second think like that, talk to Allah directly, HE listens, and answer you in different ways, Allah is very near to us just we have to contact HIM with concentration and love

I am sure you will feel a great difference.

Wish you a great day. .fe

 

[usm100]

She is a mujrim like many others because she has a "view"
She is mujrim because she lives in a country where no one can even listen to others view point.
No one ask if you have to follow what she believes in but she has every right to have her own view point and thats it.

There is nothing about islam or anything any one is talkin about. Most of the guys have gone nuts as they can because they dont even understand what she is talking about cause i cannot see any one at all giving any replies to what she said. So i believe no one has an answer to what she said.

To be honest after 10 years most of the people will ask the same questions she is asking. NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO IMPOSE THERE VIEWS ON OTHERS. Thats a common thing and we should respect it.

 

[Killthecorrupts]

Mullah and Seculars(Ladeen) like Marvi, both are injurious for Islam & Pakistan.

 

[mrbaig]

Real definitions of some important terms and their Pakistani meanings

Secularism
Real definition:
Separation of religion and state. So that followers of majority religion or sect dont oppress and subjugate minorities. State should make it possible that every citizen has complete freedom of religion and enjoys equal rights. State cant discriminate among its citizens on the basis of religion. Forget about non muslim minorities, just look at Iran and KSA where rights of minority muslim sects are violated.

Pakistani definition:
Godlessness! Atheism and Satan-worshiping will be promoted by government. Practicing Muslims will be mocked and persecuted by a secular govt. No Muslim will be allowed to follow his/her religion. Mosques will be closed down etc etc.

Liberalism
Real definition:
Personal freedom, Equal rights to all citizens, Supremacy of Law and Constitution, True Democracy, Free and fair Elections, Human Rights, Capitalism and Free Trade, Freedom of Religion.

Pakistani definition:
Nudity, Promotion of prostitution, Obscenity, Public sex, Alcohol consumption and corruption will be encouraged. Burqa, Hijab, Beards, Prayers, Fasting, Hajj and other religious symbols and signs will be banned. Mujras and dance parties will be held at every corner of pakistan and women and girls will be fined who will refuse to dance. Orgies will be a norm.

Two Nation Theory
Real definition:
There were two nations in Pre-1947 India and founders of pakistan thought that due to religious intolerance and animosity among muslims and Hindus, rights of minority Muslims will not be protected. Therefore it is prudent to ask for a separate country for muslims to better protect their rights. After formation of Pakistan and employing democracy as state system, it automatically loses its importance and necessity. Now we are a democracy where every citizen is equal before the state and has equal rights.

Pakistani definition:
Ditching 2 nation theory means, Pakistan is incorporated back into India, we lose our sovereignty, overnight we lose our religion and become a Godless nation.

Now i have one question to ask from Marvi and her ilk: Why the hell do u have to use these terms??? I mean why u insist on using and discussing these terms when majority even does not know the real meanings of these terms? I wish majority of Pakistanis had enjoyed the same costly schooling as u have enjoyed, instead of messed up govt schooling and its hypocrite curriculum. Why Marvi, Why??????

Jeo Moazzamniaz jeo.Your post is so worthy,that I have added it to my favorites.Excellent,excellent.(clap)(clap)(clap)

 

[IndiaGuy]

garry , you are making a mistake . U need to understand for what Pakistan was meant for ..........

let me put this way , its just about mutilating the fact. I don't agree with POLYGAMY . It is immoral. In Quran it is mentioned that marry more than one woman only if you can be just with them. Secondly , If you should , prefer orphans or widows............. But people dont .......



What she says is ,


1-Homosexuality should be allowed .......

2-She says that every one should have total freedom...........

But she doesn't say anything regarding ban on veil in Belgium , France ... WHy???????????????



I wont call her indian agent , I would call her pro american..... Musharaf's girl.

Remember , Americans have special funds for Paki Media to promote enlightenment.....

If there is a ban on veil in Belgium , France ... It is Belgium and France's Problem not pakistan's problem. marvi is pakistani citizen and she care about pakistan. try to understand.

 

[mrbaig]

She is a mujrim like many others because she has a "view"
She is mujrim because she lives in a country where no one can even listen to others view point.
No one ask if you have to follow what she believes in but she has every right to have her own view point and thats it.

There is nothing about islam or anything any one is talkin about. Most of the guys have gone nuts as they can because they dont even understand what she is talking about cause i cannot see any one at all giving any replies to what she said. So i believe no one has an answer to what she said.

To be honest after 10 years most of the people will ask the same questions she is asking. NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO IMPOSE THERE VIEWS ON OTHERS. Thats a common thing and we should respect it.

It will be too late my dear.

 

[mrbaig]

That was the whole concept of the article. We cannot hear any argument. We dont want to get into practical world. We love saying the other they are agents etc etc. To heck with that mental sickness and to heck with all those kids who dont have a brain to understand.

This is irony of the educated people of this country.(thumbsdown)

 

[urdu_man]

good article geoooooooo

 

[urdu_man]

garry , you are making a mistake . U need to understand for what Pakistan was meant for ..........

let me put this way , its just about mutilating the fact. I don't agree with POLYGAMY . It is immoral. In Quran it is mentioned that marry more than one woman only if you can be just with them. Secondly , If you should , prefer orphans or widows............. But people dont .......



What she says is ,


1-Homosexuality should be allowed .......

2-She says that every one should have total freedom...........

But she doesn't say anything regarding ban on veil in Belgium , France ... WHy???????????????



I wont call her indian agent , I would call her pro american..... Musharaf's girl.

Remember , Americans have special funds for Paki Media to promote enlightenment.....

extremist ?

 

[desicad]

She needs to write hundreds of more such columns in urdu to get her point across our text books-educated young generation. She can be more assertive if she stops using terms 'Secularism' and 'Liberalism' which have been demonized brutally by our so called liberal, secular, corrupt 2% elite class and mullahs. Just describe ur objectives (without such terms)and u will see overwhelming majority of Pakistan wants the same and is with u unequivocally.

Real tragedy of Pakistan is that real Muslims started calling themselves 'Secular and Liberal' and left the title of Muslim on the platter for blood sucking zombies aka fassadi mullahs+their blind supporters. What a grand stupidity by these secular and liberal Muslims! I want to kick the s h i t out of them so badly:smashfreakB::smashfreakB::smashfreakB:.

I understand what you are trying to say, but don't understand fully why you are blaming and cursing the liberals and seculars. May be you are frustrated that this class has failed miserably to put their point across in a manner that illiterate masses can understand and you want to try them a different approach. The reason being the definitions of these terms have been brutally twisted in pakistan....right?
BTW can a islamic state be secular...are not they mutually exclusive per say?
Also can you please tell the gist of Ms. sirmed's article in few lines? Thanks.

 

[moazzamniaz]

I understand what you are trying to say, but don't understand fully why you are blaming and cursing the liberals and seculars. May be you are frustrated that this class has failed miserably to put their point across in a manner that illiterate masses can understand and you want to try them a different approach. The reason being the definitions of these terms have been brutally twisted in pakistan....right?

Apart from our so called liberal and secular 2% corrupt elite(They are neither liberal nor secular and are as bad as mullahs, most of the time in bed with each other in past), there are many educated muslims whose liberalism and secularism does not teach them corruption, lawlessness, arrogance and ignorance towards our religion, culture and other sensitive sentiments. And for the past 64 yrs this intellectual class carried on sucking up to each other in English print media mainly cuz of better conditions of Pakistani society. They were happy just after writing english columns for each other and receiving applause from each other while military-mullah alliance was in full swing brainwashing us through Urdu print media(Which caters more than 95% population of Pakistan). But now as fire of religious intolerance has reached their doors(Only our 3&4 star Generals are safe at this time), we Urdu medium desi readers have finally got their attention. But they are unable to understand that how far behind they had left us desi Pakistani viewers and readers. Their usage of notorious(Acc to us desi pakistanis) terms secularism, liberalism and calling 2 nation theory irrelevant out rightly describes it. And trust me i m not cursing them. I m just stating some obvious flaws in their strategy. Kindly read my other post # 19 of this thread that what we 90% of pakistanis have been fed about these terms.

BTW can a islamic state be secular...are not they mutually exclusive per say?

Forget the chanters of Islamic state. It is not possible and workable even for one day due to our special sectarian composition. We have 4 major sects bearing approx %age of 10%+20%+25%+45%.(There are 2 countries which are a bit 'Islamic' or mullah cratic or theocratic states ie KSA and Iran, and both have more than 85% followers of a single sect, so it was easy to oppress minority sect`s rights and enforce own version upon them). Now all these 4 sects have declared each other Kaffir, they are thirsty for each other`s blood, killing each other in mosques and streets daily. Every such sect has its own set of Islamic rules(Shariah), and they are not gonna compromise even on one such discordant ruling(Dont u see here, how similar our Islam is:)). Various dictators tried to include some such Islamic clauses(To suck up to mullahs to seek their support) but due to same differences, all these clauses were rendered useless and just a phony writing in our constitution. In short all these religious goons who chant for Islamic state, caliphate are themselves the biggest hurdle in its way. So just enjoy their Ho-Ha(yapping)!

Now as i have described that how different our Islam is, for many muslims like myself, Islam gives all these things which people enjoy in a secular country. May be even more than that. But i also know that producing a religious zombie is very easy( Just employ negligence and zombie is ready) but making a good muslim requires hard work on the part of both parents and state(Education, investment, Grooming etc), therefore vying for Islamic state is as foolish and stupish as asking for a unicorn. Our only hope is to follow Turkey and Malaysia.

Also can you please tell the gist of Ms. sirmed's article in few lines? Thanks.

She is touching on our every aspect of our hypocrisy and its results. Briefly, she is asking for the same things which majority of pakistanis want ie Welfare democratic state, Prosperity, Education and Health for all, Good relations with our neighboring countries, Stoppage of poking our noses into other countries and support of religious extremism, Equal rights and personal freedom for all and sundry etc etc. But few words like Liberalism, secularism and calling 2 nation theory irrelevant outrightly made it a poison for the common masses of Pakistan.

 

[Ehraz]

Mr Baig, learn the meaning of being Muslim and Islam first, a true muslim who believes in shariah can never be secular, nor can a true islamic state be secular. Islam and shariah governs any system of governance in an islamic state, so how would separation of religion and the state happen in the first place. U cant have it both ways in Islam.

I disagree with your statement. First, it should be noted that the concept of a so-called "Islamic State" in Quran does not occur. The Holy Quran lays down the guidelines for only one State, without mentioning religion. These guidelines are for all citizens equally, regardless of their religious affiliation.

In this sense, also a Muslim country is basically a secular state, in the sense that the state constitution absolutely no difference between a Muslim and non-Muslim does in terms of the fundamental rights of citizens.

The top priority for every state, according to the teachings of Islam, is absolute righteousness.

Allah says in Quran: "O ye who believe! be steadfast in the cause of Allah, bearing witness in equity; and let not a people’s enmity incite you to act otherwise than with justice. Be always just, that is nearer to righteousness. And fear Allah. Surely, Allah is aware of what you do."(5:9)

At the time of Holy Prophet Muhammad(saw) religion and state were intertwined because of the prevailing conditions during a certain time together. But this is not a requirement. Islam separate States business from religion.
The Holy Quran says: " Verily, Allah commands you to make over the trusts to those entitled to them, and that, when you judge between men, you judge with justice. And surely excellent is that with which Allah admonishes you! Allah is All-Hearing, All-Seeing. O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obey His Messenger and those who are in authority among you. And if you differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger if you are believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is best and most commendable in the end." (4:59-60)

According to these verses democracy is indeed a possible form of government. Specifically, it says "trusteeship" to hand over the business of government to those who are worthy. People should elect such people who can assure that Justice will prevail.

 

[Bret Hawk]

@Khurram.k


Aur kabhi apni zuban par ghaur kia hai ? Aur chalay ho logon ki morality ko theek karnay typical self projection and nothing else.

And by the way which Two Nations theory you’re talking about and advocating? That theory which only exist in theoretical corpus of some scholars of Islam and have no applicability in this current world from the so called “Unitary whole of an Ummah”? Come out of this illusion and live in the world of ruthless reality before another Marvi like character destroys you and expose the brittleness of your defeated ideologies cocooned in thin layers of fervent religiosity and nationalism by perfectly emulating the fate of your ideologue, the reverent Mr “Redneck and capped jackass” which he suffered few weeks back at the hands of the author of this article, who is equally pig headed and arrogant liberal fascist.

 

[desicad]

Apart from our so called liberal and secular 2% corrupt elite(They are neither liberal nor secular and are as bad as mullahs, most of the time in bed with each other in past), there are many educated muslims whose liberalism and secularism does not teach them corruption, lawlessness, arrogance and ignorance towards our religion, culture and other sensitive sentiments. And for the past 64 yrs this intellectual class carried on sucking up to each other in English print media mainly cuz of better conditions of Pakistani society. They were happy just after writing english columns for each other and receiving applause from each other while military-mullah alliance was in full swing brainwashing us through Urdu print media(Which caters more than 95% population of Pakistan). But now as fire of religious intolerance has reached their doors(Only our 3&4 star Generals are safe at this time), we Urdu medium desi readers have finally got their attention. But they are unable to understand that how far behind they had left us desi Pakistani viewers and readers. Their usage of notorious(Acc to us desi pakistanis) terms secularism, liberalism and calling 2 nation theory irrelevant out rightly describes it. And trust me i m not cursing them. I m just stating some obvious flaws in their strategy. Kindly read my other post # 19 of this thread that what we 90% of pakistanis have been fed about these terms.

Forget the chanters of Islamic state. It is not possible and workable even for one day due to our special sectarian composition. We have 4 major sects bearing approx %age of 10%+20%+25%+45%.(There are 2 countries which are a bit 'Islamic' or mullah cratic or theocratic states ie KSA and Iran, and both have more than 85% followers of a single sect, so it was easy to oppress minority sect`s rights and enforce own version upon them). Now all these 4 sects have declared each other Kaffir, they are thirsty for each other`s blood, killing each other in mosques and streets daily. Every such sect has its own set of Islamic rules(Shariah), and they are not gonna compromise even on one such discordant ruling(Dont u see here, how similar our Islam is:)). Various dictators tried to include some such Islamic clauses(To suck up to mullahs to seek their support) but due to same differences, all these clauses were rendered useless and just a phony writing in our constitution. In short all these religious goons who chant for Islamic state, caliphate are themselves the biggest hurdle in its way. So just enjoy their Ho-Ha(yapping)!

Now as i have described that how different our Islam is, for many muslims like myself, Islam gives all these things which people enjoy in a secular country. May be even more than that. But i also know that producing a religious zombie is very easy( Just employ negligence and zombie is ready) but making a good muslim requires hard work on the part of both parents and state(Education, investment, Grooming etc), therefore vying for Islamic state is as foolish and stupish as asking for a unicorn. Our only hope is to follow Turkey and Malaysia.


She is touching on our every aspect of our hypocrisy and its results. Briefly, she is asking for the same things which majority of pakistanis want ie Welfare democratic state, Prosperity, Education and Health for all, Good relations with our neighboring countries, Stoppage of poking our noses into other countries and support of religious extremism, Equal rights and personal freedom for all and sundry etc etc. But few words like Liberalism, secularism and calling 2 nation theory irrelevant outrightly made it a poison for the common masses of Pakistan.

So what I understand is that you are telling these people to preach the concept , but don't use the terms that describe the concept because these terms are so negatively ingrained in the system of the majority (what you refer as desi pakistanis) that it is difficult to come out of that now. As per you it is too late now for using all these buzz words (secularism, liberalism, etc....) so a new approach is required. Did I get that right?
What is more for minorities in islam than a secular state? Also I don't understand why educated people like you also talk in terms of good muslim, bad muslim, etc.? Why not use something like good human being, good citizen, etc? If you know what I mean......
(p.s: you can ignore questions which you don't like....:))

 

[moazzamniaz]

So what I understand is that you are telling these people to preach the concept , but don't use the terms that describe the concept because these terms are so negatively ingrained in the system of the majority (what you refer as desi pakistanis) that it is difficult to come out of that now. As per you it is too late now for using all these buzz words (secularism, liberalism, etc....) so a new approach is required. Did I get that right?

Yes, i think that they should talk point by point and omit the terms. Masses are sick of all the happenings in my country. And as i told u earlier that there is no other option esp the 'famous one'.

What is more for minorities in islam than a secular state?

Well in that utopian state, minorities will enjoy same amenities as in a secular state plus minorities will have a slave like humble elected ruler always at their service:). I mean it will be a like a true democracy with all its benefits minus current bureaucratic and administrative flaws of a working democracy!

Also I don't understand why educated people like you also talk in terms of good muslim, bad muslim, etc.? Why not use something like good human being, good citizen, etc? If you know what I mean......
(p.s: you can ignore questions which you don't like....:))

Well, i think that first a person becomes good human and then he has to strive hard to become a good muslim (Call him/her a social worker+Exemplary good human).My criteria of good human is same as of urs or any other educated sane person of this world(My criteria of Islam is also humanity). And yes i like to use words human, citizen etc. But my dear fellow, as it is a public forum and i try to be cautious to avoid unnecessary replies, thus the usage of such words to cater the needs of masses. Hope u will understand it and will not mind:).

 

[desicad]

Yes, i think that they should talk point by point and omit the terms. Masses are sick of all the happenings in my country. And as i told u earlier that there is no other option esp the 'famous one'.

Well in that utopian state, minorities will enjoy same amenities as in a secular state plus minorities will have a slave like humble elected ruler always at their service:). I mean it will be a like a true democracy with all its benefits minus current bureaucratic and administrative flaws of a working democracy!


Well, i think that first a person becomes good human and then he has to strive hard to become a good muslim (Call him/her a social worker+Exemplary good human).My criteria of good human is same as of urs or any other educated sane person of this world(My criteria of Islam is also humanity). And yes i like to use words human, citizen etc. But my dear fellow, as it is a public forum and i try to be cautious to avoid unnecessary replies, thus the usage of such words to cater the needs of masses. Hope u will understand it and will not mind:).

Can that slave like humble ruler be from a minority community?.....;)

 

[moazzamniaz]

Can that slave like humble ruler be from a minority community?.....;)

Well as i told u earlier that it will be a democracy, then if masses will vote for someone, who can stop him/her????

P.S. Here i have done the same mistake as i was complaining about ie Premature and unnecessary confrontation of hypothetical as well as impossible scenarios in sense of Islamic state in pakistan. In fact True Caliphate ended after first 5 caliphs after which it was replaced by monarchy or Malookiat. It froze its evolution. There are many things which were at times considered part and parcel of Islam but were later declared defunct eg slavery etc. Now we had not true Islamic state for the past 1300 yrs and there are no chances for its revival if one thinks pragmatically. Suppose even if all those impossible hurdles are crossed which i have mentioned in my earlier post, then there is no doubt that such few small intricate knots can also be unwoven amicably. One such other thing is whether non muslims can preach their religion in a muslim state?? All these things require a certain level of threshold education, tolerance and maturity to discuss and debate in our society. Otherwise it creates a useless storm in a tea cup for no obvious reason or gain. In Islam, one can find most extremist to most humane interpretation in each and every issue. Hope u can understand my point.