"Haan Mai Mujrim Houn" - Marvi Sirmid defends her stance against Nazriya'e Pakistan
CanadianDesi
Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
Does she know the meaning of the ayat she quoted. Islam is not only a religion it is a 'DEEN' meaning the way of life and the rules of this way were set by Allah in quran. We have to follow these rules with no exceptions. Homosexuality is haram then it is haram no need to give a second thought. If she says that two persons are allowed to do what ever they want to do in private then go and eat pork in private. Every haram thing can be halal in private. In the column Abdul Qadir Hasan rightly mentioned if it was not the two nation theory then bangalies should become a part of india but they kept on following the two nation theory and make another Islamic country rather then merge with their cultural haritage of bengal.
That was the whole concept of the article. We cannot hear any argument. We dont want to get into practical world. We love saying the other they are agents etc etc. To heck with that mental sickness and to heck with all those kids who dont have a brain to understand.
pak4rule
Senator (1k+ posts)
My dear brother Moazzamniaz,
Although you seems very literate and good in politics but my dear if you have studies Islam and knows what is meant to be muslim you wont be saying what you have said and you wont even support Marvi.
before commenting on my post, plz first just for a while take me as impartial person.
I just wanna tell you one simple thing, I hope you must have known this but for some reason wont remember that we are MUSLIMS.
Muslim means = " A follower of the religion of Islam "
For instance, eating a meal, bathing , entering a house, meeting with people,and other individual or social activities a muslim follows islamic way.
In Islam there is no concept of seperation of religion and politics too.
My dear brother plz just realise that being muslim we HAVE to follow the ways Allah has given us , in quran and through our beloved prophet PBUH.
If we are not following then remember that we will be questioned at the day of judgment. Its our firm faith and believe.
Islam is beautiful religion, and many non-Muslim, Atheist , christians , hindus converting to islam coz they have been to the ugliness of such secularism or atheism
Kindly first see the purpose of being a muslim to live a life according to Allah's ways and sunnah then comment on other idealogy.
we are seeing problems , bloodshed in our society just because non of us spending our lives truly according to Allah's ways, once we start doing we will have our golden times back.
We dare Allah by doing all those things which HE prohebited and dislike, we get pleasure in doing all such things.
Enjoying our lives is so much important for us that we dont even care whether it will make Allah angry or happy.
My dearest, just for a second think like that, talk to Allah directly, HE listens, and answer you in different ways, Allah is very near to us just we have to contact HIM with concentration and love
I am sure you will feel a great difference.
Wish you a great day. .fe
She is a mujrim like many others because she has a "view"
She is mujrim because she lives in a country where no one can even listen to others view point.
No one ask if you have to follow what she believes in but she has every right to have her own view point and thats it.
There is nothing about islam or anything any one is talkin about. Most of the guys have gone nuts as they can because they dont even understand what she is talking about cause i cannot see any one at all giving any replies to what she said. So i believe no one has an answer to what she said.
To be honest after 10 years most of the people will ask the same questions she is asking. NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO IMPOSE THERE VIEWS ON OTHERS. Thats a common thing and we should respect it.
She is mujrim because she lives in a country where no one can even listen to others view point.
No one ask if you have to follow what she believes in but she has every right to have her own view point and thats it.
There is nothing about islam or anything any one is talkin about. Most of the guys have gone nuts as they can because they dont even understand what she is talking about cause i cannot see any one at all giving any replies to what she said. So i believe no one has an answer to what she said.
To be honest after 10 years most of the people will ask the same questions she is asking. NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO IMPOSE THERE VIEWS ON OTHERS. Thats a common thing and we should respect it.
Killthecorrupts
Senator (1k+ posts)
Mullah and Seculars(Ladeen) like Marvi, both are injurious for Islam & Pakistan.
mrbaig
Senator (1k+ posts)
Jeo Moazzamniaz jeo.Your post is so worthy,that I have added it to my favorites.Excellent,excellent.(clap)(clap)(clap)
IndiaGuy
Senator (1k+ posts)
If there is a ban on veil in Belgium , France ... It is Belgium and France's Problem not pakistan's problem. marvi is pakistani citizen and she care about pakistan. try to understand.
mrbaig
Senator (1k+ posts)
It will be too late my dear.
mrbaig
Senator (1k+ posts)
urdu_man
Banned
extremist ?
I understand what you are trying to say, but don't understand fully why you are blaming and cursing the liberals and seculars. May be you are frustrated that this class has failed miserably to put their point across in a manner that illiterate masses can understand and you want to try them a different approach. The reason being the definitions of these terms have been brutally twisted in pakistan....right?
BTW can a islamic state be secular...are not they mutually exclusive per say?
Also can you please tell the gist of Ms. sirmed's article in few lines? Thanks.
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moazzamniaz
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Apart from our so called liberal and secular 2% corrupt elite(They are neither liberal nor secular and are as bad as mullahs, most of the time in bed with each other in past), there are many educated muslims whose liberalism and secularism does not teach them corruption, lawlessness, arrogance and ignorance towards our religion, culture and other sensitive sentiments. And for the past 64 yrs this intellectual class carried on sucking up to each other in English print media mainly cuz of better conditions of Pakistani society. They were happy just after writing english columns for each other and receiving applause from each other while military-mullah alliance was in full swing brainwashing us through Urdu print media(Which caters more than 95% population of Pakistan). But now as fire of religious intolerance has reached their doors(Only our 3&4 star Generals are safe at this time), we Urdu medium desi readers have finally got their attention. But they are unable to understand that how far behind they had left us desi Pakistani viewers and readers. Their usage of notorious(Acc to us desi pakistanis) terms secularism, liberalism and calling 2 nation theory irrelevant out rightly describes it. And trust me i m not cursing them. I m just stating some obvious flaws in their strategy. Kindly read my other post # 19 of this thread that what we 90% of pakistanis have been fed about these terms.
Forget the chanters of Islamic state. It is not possible and workable even for one day due to our special sectarian composition. We have 4 major sects bearing approx %age of 10%+20%+25%+45%.(There are 2 countries which are a bit 'Islamic' or mullah cratic or theocratic states ie KSA and Iran, and both have more than 85% followers of a single sect, so it was easy to oppress minority sect`s rights and enforce own version upon them). Now all these 4 sects have declared each other Kaffir, they are thirsty for each other`s blood, killing each other in mosques and streets daily. Every such sect has its own set of Islamic rules(Shariah), and they are not gonna compromise even on one such discordant ruling(Dont u see here, how similar our Islam is:)). Various dictators tried to include some such Islamic clauses(To suck up to mullahs to seek their support) but due to same differences, all these clauses were rendered useless and just a phony writing in our constitution. In short all these religious goons who chant for Islamic state, caliphate are themselves the biggest hurdle in its way. So just enjoy their Ho-Ha(yapping)!
Now as i have described that how different our Islam is, for many muslims like myself, Islam gives all these things which people enjoy in a secular country. May be even more than that. But i also know that producing a religious zombie is very easy( Just employ negligence and zombie is ready) but making a good muslim requires hard work on the part of both parents and state(Education, investment, Grooming etc), therefore vying for Islamic state is as foolish and stupish as asking for a unicorn. Our only hope is to follow Turkey and Malaysia.
She is touching on our every aspect of our hypocrisy and its results. Briefly, she is asking for the same things which majority of pakistanis want ie Welfare democratic state, Prosperity, Education and Health for all, Good relations with our neighboring countries, Stoppage of poking our noses into other countries and support of religious extremism, Equal rights and personal freedom for all and sundry etc etc. But few words like Liberalism, secularism and calling 2 nation theory irrelevant outrightly made it a poison for the common masses of Pakistan.
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Ehraz
MPA (400+ posts)
I disagree with your statement. First, it should be noted that the concept of a so-called "Islamic State" in Quran does not occur. The Holy Quran lays down the guidelines for only one State, without mentioning religion. These guidelines are for all citizens equally, regardless of their religious affiliation.
In this sense, also a Muslim country is basically a secular state, in the sense that the state constitution absolutely no difference between a Muslim and non-Muslim does in terms of the fundamental rights of citizens.
The top priority for every state, according to the teachings of Islam, is absolute righteousness.
Allah says in Quran: "O ye who believe! be steadfast in the cause of Allah, bearing witness in equity; and let not a people’s enmity incite you to act otherwise than with justice. Be always just, that is nearer to righteousness. And fear Allah. Surely, Allah is aware of what you do."(5:9)
At the time of Holy Prophet Muhammad(saw) religion and state were intertwined because of the prevailing conditions during a certain time together. But this is not a requirement. Islam separate States business from religion.
The Holy Quran says: " Verily, Allah commands you to make over the trusts to those entitled to them, and that, when you judge between men, you judge with justice. And surely excellent is that with which Allah admonishes you! Allah is All-Hearing, All-Seeing. O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obey His Messenger and those who are in authority among you. And if you differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger if you are believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is best and most commendable in the end." (4:59-60)
According to these verses democracy is indeed a possible form of government. Specifically, it says "trusteeship" to hand over the business of government to those who are worthy. People should elect such people who can assure that Justice will prevail.
Bret Hawk
Senator (1k+ posts)
@Khurram.k
Aur kabhi apni zuban par ghaur kia hai ? Aur chalay ho logon ki morality ko theek karnay typical self projection and nothing else.
And by the way which Two Nations theory you’re talking about and advocating? That theory which only exist in theoretical corpus of some scholars of Islam and have no applicability in this current world from the so called “Unitary whole of an Ummah”? Come out of this illusion and live in the world of ruthless reality before another Marvi like character destroys you and expose the brittleness of your defeated ideologies cocooned in thin layers of fervent religiosity and nationalism by perfectly emulating the fate of your ideologue, the reverent Mr “Redneck and capped jackass” which he suffered few weeks back at the hands of the author of this article, who is equally pig headed and arrogant liberal fascist.
Aur kabhi apni zuban par ghaur kia hai ? Aur chalay ho logon ki morality ko theek karnay typical self projection and nothing else.
And by the way which Two Nations theory you’re talking about and advocating? That theory which only exist in theoretical corpus of some scholars of Islam and have no applicability in this current world from the so called “Unitary whole of an Ummah”? Come out of this illusion and live in the world of ruthless reality before another Marvi like character destroys you and expose the brittleness of your defeated ideologies cocooned in thin layers of fervent religiosity and nationalism by perfectly emulating the fate of your ideologue, the reverent Mr “Redneck and capped jackass” which he suffered few weeks back at the hands of the author of this article, who is equally pig headed and arrogant liberal fascist.
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So what I understand is that you are telling these people to preach the concept , but don't use the terms that describe the concept because these terms are so negatively ingrained in the system of the majority (what you refer as desi pakistanis) that it is difficult to come out of that now. As per you it is too late now for using all these buzz words (secularism, liberalism, etc....) so a new approach is required. Did I get that right?
What is more for minorities in islam than a secular state? Also I don't understand why educated people like you also talk in terms of good muslim, bad muslim, etc.? Why not use something like good human being, good citizen, etc? If you know what I mean......
(p.s: you can ignore questions which you don't like....:))
moazzamniaz
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Yes, i think that they should talk point by point and omit the terms. Masses are sick of all the happenings in my country. And as i told u earlier that there is no other option esp the 'famous one'.
Well in that utopian state, minorities will enjoy same amenities as in a secular state plus minorities will have a slave like humble elected ruler always at their service:). I mean it will be a like a true democracy with all its benefits minus current bureaucratic and administrative flaws of a working democracy!
Well, i think that first a person becomes good human and then he has to strive hard to become a good muslim (Call him/her a social worker+Exemplary good human).My criteria of good human is same as of urs or any other educated sane person of this world(My criteria of Islam is also humanity). And yes i like to use words human, citizen etc. But my dear fellow, as it is a public forum and i try to be cautious to avoid unnecessary replies, thus the usage of such words to cater the needs of masses. Hope u will understand it and will not mind:).
Can that slave like humble ruler be from a minority community?.....;)
moazzamniaz
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Well as i told u earlier that it will be a democracy, then if masses will vote for someone, who can stop him/her????
P.S. Here i have done the same mistake as i was complaining about ie Premature and unnecessary confrontation of hypothetical as well as impossible scenarios in sense of Islamic state in pakistan. In fact True Caliphate ended after first 5 caliphs after which it was replaced by monarchy or Malookiat. It froze its evolution. There are many things which were at times considered part and parcel of Islam but were later declared defunct eg slavery etc. Now we had not true Islamic state for the past 1300 yrs and there are no chances for its revival if one thinks pragmatically. Suppose even if all those impossible hurdles are crossed which i have mentioned in my earlier post, then there is no doubt that such few small intricate knots can also be unwoven amicably. One such other thing is whether non muslims can preach their religion in a muslim state?? All these things require a certain level of threshold education, tolerance and maturity to discuss and debate in our society. Otherwise it creates a useless storm in a tea cup for no obvious reason or gain. In Islam, one can find most extremist to most humane interpretation in each and every issue. Hope u can understand my point.
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