DAR UL ALOOM INDIAS FATWA

[bhitai]

But they all admit that we should amend the constitution of Pakistan if we want to expel Qadyanis out of Pakistan. Until that we have to recognize them as any other minority as we have in Pakistan.

great, thanks PakiPatriot, Zainabia and others for summarizing our position..

either they are pakistani citizens or they are not!

if they are, they deserve to live normal lives like the rest of us

..and if anyone wants to change this picture, they should gather enough votes to change the constitution.


btw.. excluding religious parties, pretty much every political party has had Qadyani members in it, and BOTH PPP and PML-N wouldn't go as far ethnic-cleansing pakistan of qadyanis, as advocated by some members here..

 

[such bolo]

zanabia, pakpatriot, bhitai and all MQM lover:

You people are unneccessarly raising the point of amending the constitution... I dont know who has asked for amendment and for what???

You people are unaware of the matter that why muslims are angry over AH???

Muslims are worried and angry beecause of AH's undue sampathy for Qadyanis...

Qadyanis are leaving in this country and I think they have got more facilities then they deserve....

Please note what AH actually said:

Luqman:
Hamara 73 ka aain tu kehta hai k aqliyaton ko apna mazhab preach kerney ki ijaazet honee chahiye tu kiya phir Jamat Ahmediya ko bhi ye ijazat honee chahiye?
Altaf Husein:
Bilkul honee chahiye. Meree nazer mien honee chahiye. Her kisi ko honee chahiye.
Luqman:
Thats a very bold statement
Altaf:
Her kisi ko honee chahiye. tu fascisam ka ilzam mujh pe nahi lagey ga tu kis pe lagega???... acha phir aisey hee nahi keh raha. aisey hee nahi keh raha... mien ne ahmediyo ka litreture bhi perha hai.. mien ne ahmadiyo k programs bhi dekhey.. mien ne dekha wohee kalma hai inka... wohee aap (sallal laahu alahi wasallam) ko akhree nabi maantey hie woh... ab jhagra jo aata hai os ki behes mien nahi jaana chahta... is ko jo nahi maney naa maaney... aap inko musalman nahi maantey na nahi maaney... jo hindu hai os ka bhi apna Allah Rasool hai...os ko tu aap tasleem kertey hien tu Ahmediyo ko bhi tasleem kijiye........yeh jurret pakistan mien kisi mien nahi hai... ahmediyo pe zulam nahi hona chahiye. woh insaan hien pakistani hien...

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bk7yRdOnI4[/video]

 

[PakPatriot1]

@ Look Mr. Such Bolo
You are mixing two things here. Decide first on what grounds you are critising AH. On a personal level or on a political basis.

1-If you are on personal level then we have told you that within MQM there are many people who are not with AH on this issue. Otherwise we know what other leaders have been doing in their personal lives in the past.

Same as in MQM, we don't care what are personal likings and dislikings of AH.

2- But if you are talking on political level then you need to educate yourself that politics in a country depends on the set rules of the country, and in Pakistan, the set rules are written in Pakistan's constitution. Beyond that everything will be a JUNGLE'S LAW. This is the reason we are refering constitution of Pakistan. If you really want something extra constitutional that will never be allowed in any way. If you want your desires to be implemented in the country then you need to change the law. And that law must be written in the constitution of Pakistan. Otherwise, as I said, it will be a JUNGLE'S LAW, nothing else.

I want to make you sure whatever Fatwas you put on us, whatever Gaaliyan you give us, we will never leave MQM at all. The reason is obvious, we don't have any alternate political party to whom we can trust. The ones we have all are like you who don't want to give others (especially Karachi people) any chance to take even breath without their permission. We can not live on your dictation.

End of the discussion.

 

[Muttahaida]

keamari tum per allah ki lanat keo kai na sirif tum nai altaf bhai or tamam un logo per bhutan lagaya hai jo altaf hussain ko apna leader mantey hai tum jaisay jahilo ki wajaisa hum bohat pechay rehgaye tum nai altaf bhai kai bayan ko bohat ulta baka hai altaf bhai had said n he still standing wut he said whoever doesnt believe on khatam-e-nabwat he is not a muslim n wutever u said on ur earliest post god will bring azab on u inshallah we mohajirs r most literaite ppl in pakistan n we dont get confuse by any qadyani,,, being a supporter of mqm we love altaf hussain u guys keep bashing n putting traps on our leader but supporter of mqm we will be protecting our leader n mqm we believe who ever doesnt believe on khatam-e-nabwat he is not muslim but they r pakistani n they should be treated with respect n as long as in karachi we not gona let any munafiq nam nahad islam pasand tanzeem kai ghunday mullah touch any minorities in karachi.....jeyealtaf hussain jeye sada jeye u guys keep writting KHULAFAT against us n we will be getting more stronger than ever....

 

[keamari12]

MUTAHIDA I WILL NO MORE CALL U BHAEE OR ANY OF MQM SUPPORTER CHACHOO OR SOME THING IN THIS POST I NEVER MENTION ANY BODYS NAME ITS A OLD FATWA AND ITS FROM INDIA SO U CNT BLAME ANY PK MOLVI AND IN THIS PARTICULAR FATWA NO NAME WAS MENTION SO PLEASE DNT SAY ITS ABOUT MQM BUT ITS FOR COMMON MUSLIMS TO DECIDE THEIR PATH I REASON ILL SAY I WILL NOT CALL YOU BHAEE NO MORE IS I CNT CALL ANYBODY BHAEE WHO IS WILLINGLY WANT TO FELL IN HELL

 

[bhitai]

zanabia, pakpatriot, bhitai and all MQM lover:

You people are unneccessarly raising the point of amending the constitution... I dont know who has asked for amendment and for what???

You people are unaware of the matter that why muslims are angry over AH???

muslims are angry because they consider qadyanis wajiub-qatl and AH is talking about their human rights.

Is this not so?

Our position is: To say qadyanis are wajibul-qatl and worthy of social boycott/discrimination within Pakistan is AGAINST the law and constitution of the country.

To say we respect the constitution is AUTOMATICALLY supporting the Qadyani rights as humans AND PAKISTANIS.

Now if you have issues with what the LAW requires of you, you better CHANGE IT! that was our POINT!

(indeed the law does require you to treat all pakistani citizens equally in all secular matters - for instance, if a Qadyani applies for a job and he's best qualified , you cannot simply reject him because of his faith).

 

[Meraypass]

@keamari12:

What do you think of this statement from Maulana Qasim Nanutwi founder of Darulaloom Deoband;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sw6Qyqjh04

...and do you think Darulaloom Deoband is Zindeeq for associating themselves with Qasim Nanutwi?

Altaf Hussein is not a religious leader. He is merely trying to eradicate sectarianism which some sectarian minded people don't like as their halwa maanda only works while people get killed by each other in the name of religion.

Pakistan can not progress until we treat each citizen of Pakistan with respect and equality and move forward together. This infighting is bleeding the country and hampering its progress. We just can't carry on like this if we know what is good for us and if we want to become a developed nation any time soon.

 

[such bolo]

zanabia, pakpatriot, bhitai and all MQM lover:

You people are unneccessarly raising the point of amending the constitution... I dont know who has asked for amendment and for what???

You people are unaware of the matter that why muslims are angry over AH???

muslims are angry because they consider qadyanis wajiub-qatl and AH is talking about their human rights.

Is this not so?

Our position is: To say qadyanis are wajibul-qatl and worthy of social boycott/discrimination within Pakistan is AGAINST the law and constitution of the country.

To say we respect the constitution is AUTOMATICALLY supporting the Qadyani rights as humans AND PAKISTANIS.

Now if you have issues with what the LAW requires of you, you better CHANGE IT! that was our POINT!

(indeed the law does require you to treat all pakistani citizens equally in all secular matters - for instance, if a Qadyani applies for a job and he's best qualified , you cannot simply reject him because of his faith).

So you mean to say that every muslim should love america and europe... even they are killing muslims... because our law has nothing to say to hate them and instead our constitution and government want peaceful and friendly relations with america and europ.. and if anyone says that I hate America.. then he should not say so and instead should get the contitution amended... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[bhitai]

So you mean to say that every muslim should love america and europe... even they are killing muslims... because our law has nothing to say to hate them and instead our constitution and government want peaceful and friendly relations with america and europ

'loving' is one thing, respecting someone's rights is another.

Respecting the law is precisely what we do at the UNO! If we hate how others use the security council resolutions to kill muslims, we got TWO options:

a. Somehow amend the UNO charter and abolish Security council
b. LEAVE the UNO and go rouge

I'm sure no religious party in Pakistan is in favor of LEAVING the UNO, despite considering it an oppressive body!

So you see the dilemma?

 

[PakPatriot1]

So you mean to say that every muslim should love america and europe... even they are killing muslims... because our law has nothing to say to hate them and instead our constitution and government want peaceful and friendly relations with america and europ.. and if anyone says that I hate America.. then he should not say so and instead should get the contitution amended... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

What a naive and childish assessment. Typical Talibani mentality.

So, set the constitution on fire and let every body does what ever he wants to do.
Before going to put your flag on White house, first start killing all Ahmadis, Shias and Brelvis in Pakistan. That's your maslaki qanoon says. They all are Kafirs for you.
Politically all MQM workers and supporters, all left sided politicians are also be entitled for the death penalty in your political qanoon.
Make your qanoon everyday on the basis of your daily requirement. Change it in every day, in every hour, in every minute and second.

 

[Zaidi Qasim]

It is amazing how much emphasis is given to the Constitution of Pakistan to protect Ahmedi and other Minority, It is also pity that the same Constitution can't be protected when voilated by a dicator and the rights of the " MAJORITY" have been trampled. The same people pull all the tricks in the book not to bring the dictator guilty of abrogating the Constitution.This is call Munafqiyat. And this is the kind which will do that.

As far as Qadyanis are concerned, there are many Qadyanis who are still living in Pakistan.There are others who migrated out of Pakistan and live happily in foreign countries.I have two of them who work at the same place I work and they seem to be okay with status quo.once in a while they offer me to join their ebadutgah so they can educate me even more since Iam not a true believer.
Now, why Altaf started it now ? afater 3 decades of declaring them Non Muslim ? I don't know but I think there is always some kind of gain in any issue when it is brought up in the public by any politician.

Are they not getting any rights within Pakistan ? To be honest, I think they are getting lot more than a common ordinary Paksitani gets in Pakistan.Are they satisfied with this ? Off course not, since they were all over the place in Pakistan at one time. Obviously they feel bitter about it.But so as the whole Pakistan.

So, don't waste time reviving this non issue.Qadyanis are non Muslim, They have been declared non Muslim However, they don't believe that.They try to make the rest of the ummah true Muslims and that is where they cross the line compare to other non Muslim Minorities.If Altaf 's belief is his own like the rest of us all, then he should realize that what are they thinking of us. Especially when he claimed to red their books and study their religion.

I will not follow some one who carries the feelings towards Ahmedi and project them as Muslim as can be. I don't know about the rest of you but I will revoke my membership and refuse to accept that kind of person my leader.

 

[Muttahaida]

It is amazing how much emphasis is given to the Constitution of Pakistan to protect Ahmedi and other Minority, It is also pity that the same Constitution can't be protected when voilated by a dicator and the rights of the " MAJORITY" have been trampled. The same people pull all the tricks in the book not to bring the dictator guilty of abrogating the Constitution.This is call Munafqiyat. And this is the kind which will do that.

As far as Qadyanis are concerned, there are many Qadyanis who are still living in Pakistan.There are others who migrated out of Pakistan and live happily in foreign countries.I have two of them who work at the same place I work and they seem to be okay with status quo.once in a while they offer me to join their ebadutgah so they can educate me even more since Iam not a true believer.
Now, why Altaf started it now ? afater 3 decades of declaring them Non Muslim ? I don't know but I think there is always some kind of gain in any issue when it is brought up in the public by any politician.

Are they not getting any rights within Pakistan ? To be honest, I think they are getting lot more than a common ordinary Paksitani gets in Pakistan.Are they satisfied with this ? Off course not, since they were all over the place in Pakistan at one time. Obviously they feel bitter about it.But so as the whole Pakistan.

So, don't waste time reviving this non issue.Qadyanis are non Muslim, They have been declared non Muslim However, they don't believe that.They try to make the rest of the ummah true Muslims and that is where they cross the line compare to other non Muslim Minorities.If Altaf 's belief is his own like the rest of us all, then he should realize that what are they thinking of us. Especially when he claimed to red their books and study their religion.

I will not follow some one who carries the feelings towards Ahmedi and project them as Muslim as can be. I don't know about the rest of you but I will revoke my membership and refuse to accept that kind of person my leader.

by looking at ur post its giving me a impression that u r one of them who love to write things against altaf hussain...ha said once we declared them kafir but we should let them live in pakistan freely and they should be treated with respect and equality......there is so many rights for minorities in islam, we muslims living in pakistan with large number y cant we defeat them with dialogues instead we do jehad against them
u mention they getting so many rights in pakistan then i would say u living in a dark days they had been facing cruelty from pakistani establishment up until now late 80s in zia ul haq era jamati had given permission to thier thunder squad to go and kill as many as qadyanis ((((((tofan kertey hai tawaf terey (altaf bhai) azam ka--------log samjhtey hai kashti bhanwar mai hai jeye altaf bhai

 

[Zaidi Qasim]

by looking at ur post its giving me a impression that u r one of them who love to write things against altaf hussain...ha said once we declared them kafir but we should let them live in pakistan freely and they should be treated with respect and equality......there is so many rights for minorities in islam, we muslims living in pakistan with large number y cant we defeat them with dialogues instead we do jehad against them
u mention they getting so many rights in pakistan then i would say u living in a dark days they had been facing cruelty from pakistani establishment up until now late 80s in zia ul haq era jamati had given permission to thier thunder squad to go and kill as many as qadyanis ((((((tofan kertey hai tawaf terey (altaf bhai) azam ka--------log samjhtey hai kashti bhanwar mai hai jeye altaf bhai[/quote]

Mutahhida:

Just to refersh your memory, Altaf is not a messaha who happens to heal the old wounds.Instead, he is an instigator who opens the fresh wounds.It is not about Islam that all of a suddent after 30 years we just woke up and start the fabricated stories of Ahmedis being sent to dungeon to repent. I am not living in Dark ages and I hope your eyes are also lit with the gliter of 20th century.

I was comparing their status to the ordinary people living in pakistan.Do you think the people of pakistan themselves have a lots of rights and so much of those rights that they are denying the minorities of their rights ? I think the people of Pakistan are the most right denied people in world who are looking to stand up for their rights. yes, On the upper top layers of the leadership of paksitani establishment makes and breaks these laws and they are virtually imposed on the rest of the population. First of all you should be trying to get the majority their rights before thinking about giving rights to the minorities. In Pakistan, even Majority can't enjoy their rights which are inshrined in its Constitution.

 

[such bolo]

pakpatriot says:

What a naive and childish assessment. Typical Talibani mentality.

So, set the constitution on fire and let every body does what ever he wants to do.
Before going to put your flag on White house, first start killing all Ahmadis, Shias and Brelvis in Pakistan. That's your maslaki qanoon says. They all are Kafirs for you.
Politically all MQM workers and supporters, all left sided politicians are also be entitled for the death penalty in your political qanoon.
Make your qanoon everyday on the basis of your daily requirement. Change it in every day, in every hour, in every minute and second.

you are talking for things which nobody has said....

It is you people who are again and again asking to amend the constitution... but nobody knows for what you want constitution to be changed??? what has muslims asked for...????

who said set the constitution on fire?
who said to put flag on white house?
who said to kill ahmadis, shias and brelvis in Pakistan?

nobody has said so... it is just your frustration... because this time AH has put you in great difficulty...

the simplest thing is that Qadyanis are enjoying full minorities rights... then why have MQM become so active to propagate that they are being killed or kicked out of Paksitan??? it looks like MQM has got some extra sampathy for Ahmedis which is alarming....and that is why we muslims are worried for the people who vote for MQM as there has become a danger that now Ahmedis will be free and will be encouraged to propagate their mazhab among MQM circles (because constitution allows them :o ...and we are worried for our muslim brothers...

That is why I said that constitution is something else, Law is something else...but general muslim sentiments does not need approval from constitution...your love and hate for soemone or for any political or religious party does not need constitutional approval. you can not tell all muslims to love ahmedis, give them respect, treat them as equal as other pakistani because consitution has nothing to say against it..

For example If I have a shop and I want to employe someone and if a Qadyani comes to me and I refuse to give him employment and instead prefer a muslim....do you think I need constitutional approval for my action? of course I would prefer any muslim over any Qadyani...I would treat muslim as my brother....do you still have any objection?

They all are Kafirs for you.

it means for your Ahmedis are not kafir?

Politically all MQM workers and supporters, all left sided politicians are also be entitled for the death penalty in your political qanoon.

you are just trying to divert the issue.... no one has claimed so.

the fact is that you have made yourself bound to protect MQM... it looks like you will be asked by Allah that why did not you support MQM....astagfirullah. infact you have accepted (in one of your post) that you have no choice but to support MQM... that is why you have nothing to do with AH's personal views for Ahmedis....so let me say that even if Altaf Husein (Allah forbidden) claims that he has become a Qadyani eventhough you would say that because you have no choice in politics thats why AH with Qadyanism is acceptable to you.

For me love for Prophet Muhammed (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) should be more then love for my own life... and if AH or Qazi or NS or IK or any other leader talk in favour of Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam)'s enemies or talk against Islam, for me they all are on my foot.. and they are not more than khinzeer (if any of them talk in favour of Prophet's enemies)....

For your information I hate Jamat e Islami, MQM, PTI, PML N and all.... I am from Karachi and Mohajir... but still I am satisfied...alhamdulillah.... I know I will not be asked by Allah that why I did not vote for one of them...

 

[such bolo]

Now you see the hypocracy....in one of his (muttahida) post he said that we should respect ahmedis/qadyanis and treat them equally and we should try to convince them through dialoage and ikhlaq husna...... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

you can see after AH interview a big change in their attitude towards Qadyani who are Kafir according to Islam and constitution but on the other hand you read his above quoted comments for Nawaz sharif...

Muttahida!!!! where is your Ikhlaq Husna, respect and equal treatment in case of NS...... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: so who is better NS or Qadyanis????? :!:

 

[jabeen]

Is Fatway ki Rooh sa to Quaid e Azam aur Altaf hussain dono aik hi line ma kharay nazr aa rahay hain.

Altaf Hussain na to Wazay toor per kaha ha ka Jo Shaks KHatam e Nabuwat(S A W) per yaqeen nahib rakhta wo muselman nahi.

Magar Quaid e Azam na to aik Qadiani ko Pakistan ka Pahla Minister for Foreign Affairs Banaya tha, is sa saaf zahir ha ka un ka Qadianio sa Tallukat bhi thay aur un ka Qadianio ka saath khana peena aur Mail jool bhi tha.

Is ka Matlab ka Dono per yeh Fatwa pooora oterta hay.

Yaani is fatway ki rooh sa Pakistan ka Baani bhi Zandeeq aur Yahood ka agent tha :lol: :lol: :lol:


Baat itni si ha jo jahilo ki samajh ma nahi aa rahi.

Altaf hussain na kaha Qadiano ko Prechaing aur Ibadat Gah banany ki Ijiazat honi chahiyay.

To yeh to Pakistan ka constitution ma likha ha jis ka sab sa ziada credit Jamat e islami laiti ha.

Article 20 of Constitution.

20. Freedom to profess religion and to manage religious institutions.
Subject to law, public order and morality:-
(a) every citizen shall have the right to profess, practise and propagate his religion; and
(b) every religious denomination and every sect thereof shall have the right to establish, maintain and manage its religious institutions.


Is article ki rooh sa Qadianio ko as Non Muslims wo sab kernay ka ikhtiar ha jo Altaf Hussain na kahan Yaani, Altaf hussain Qasoorwar nahi Pakistan ka Ayeen Qasoorwar ha jis ka banaya ka credit Mullah laitay hain.


Abb jawab do in batoo ka yahan mojood Anti MQM logo.

 

[jabeen]

Now you see the hypocracy....in one of his (muttahida) post he said that we should respect ahmedis/qadyanis and treat them equally and we should try to convince them through dialoage and ikhlaq husna...... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

you can see after AH interview a big change in their attitude towards Qadyani who are Kafir according to Islam and constitution but on the other hand you read his above quoted comments for Nawaz sharif...

Muttahida!!!! where is your Ikhlaq Husna, respect and equal treatment in case of NS...... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: so who is better NS or Qadyanis????? :!:

Quaid e Azam ka baray ma kia khayal ha app ka jinhoo na Qadianio ko Barabar ka Pakistani Citizen samjha aur aik Qadiani ko Minister Banaya?

 

[Zaidi Qasim]

Now you see the hypocracy....in one of his (muttahida) post he said that we should respect ahmedis/qadyanis and treat them equally and we should try to convince them through dialoage and ikhlaq husna...... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

you can see after AH interview a big change in their attitude towards Qadyani who are Kafir according to Islam and constitution but on the other hand you read his above quoted comments for Nawaz sharif...

Muttahida!!!! where is your Ikhlaq Husna, respect and equal treatment in case of NS...... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: so who is better NS or Qadyanis????? :!:

Quaid e Azam ka baray ma kia khayal ha app ka jinhoo na Qadianio ko Barabar ka Pakistani Citizen samjha aur aik Qadiani ko Minister Banaya?

??? ?? ??? ?? ??? ?????? ?? ???? ?? ???
?? ????? ?? ??? ???? ?? ????? ??? ????
?? ?????? ????? ??? ?? ????? ?????
??? ??? ??? ?? ??? ?? ?? ????? ??? ????
??? ??? ????? ??????? ?? ??? ???? ???
?? ?? ?? ?? ??? ???? ????? ??? ????

 

[MYCOUNTRY]

This is not a political matter on which MQM lover,s are supporting Altaf ..................it is very religious question ...................................But MQM lovers are totally blind..........May Allah show them right way (Ameen)
Altaf is very much in favor of Quadyanis b/c he also called himself Muhsin e Insaniayat (Astaghfirallah)

 

[jabeen]

This is not a political matter on which MQM lover,s are supporting Altaf ..................it is very religious question ...................................But MQM lovers are totally blind..........May Allah show them right way (Ameen)
Altaf is very much in favor of Quadyanis b/c he also called himself Muhsin e Insaniayat (Astaghfirallah)

Bhai to jo Talluk Altaf hussain ka ap log Qadianio ka saath banany ki koshish ker rahay hain us sa ziada to Quaid e Azam na Qadianio ka saath dia un ko Minister bunwaya.

To Quaid e Azam ko kio Qadianio ka saath na khara ker rahay?

Islam to sab ka liye aik ha to jo alfaz Altaf Hussain ko bol rahay ho wo Quaid e Azam ko bhi bolo na .
Munagkat kio ker rahay hain ap log?

Asel ma masla ap logo ka demagh ka ha yeh sab Hub Ali aur Bughz e Mavia ma ho raha ha.

Article 20 ma jo likha ha wo hi Altaf hussain na kaha ha, kia pakistan ka constitution Altaf hussain na banaya ha ?
Us na sirf wo kaha ha jo Article 20 ma likha ha .

Yeh aik Mulki Masla ha Deeni nahi..

Altaf Hussain na to Wazay toor per kaha ha ka Jo Shaks KHatam e Nabuwat(S A W) per yaqeen nahib rakhta wo muselman nahi.