Burkas not welcome in France: Sarkozy
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contra
Senator (1k+ posts)
Burka is not the solution...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091215/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_arabs_sexual_harassment
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Burka is not the solution. Burka clad women are being harassed in Arab/muslim countries.
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Harassment across Arab world drives women inside
CAIRO The sexual harassment of women in the streets, schools and work places of the Arab world is driving them to cover up and confine themselves to their homes, said activists at the first-ever regional conference addressing the once taboo topic.
Activists from 17 countries across the region met in Cairo for a two-day conference ending Monday and concluded that harassment was unchecked across the region because laws don't punish it, women don't report it and the authorities ignore it.
The harassment, including groping and verbal abuse, is a daily experience women in the region face and makes them wary of going into public spaces, whether it's the streets or jobs, the participants said. It happens regardless of what women are wearing.
With more and more women in schools, the workplace and politics, roles have changed but often traditional attitudes have not. Experts said in some places, like Egypt, harassment appears sometimes to be out of vengeance, from men blaming women for denied work opportunities.
Amal Madbouli, who wears the conservative face veil or niqab, told The Associated Press that despite her dress, she is harassed and described how a man came after her in the streets of her neighborhood.
"He hissed at me and kept asking me if I wanted to go with him to a quieter area, and to give him my phone number," said Madbouli, a mother of two. "This is a national security issue. I am a mother, and I want to be reassured when my daughters go out on the streets."
Statistics on harassment in the region have until recently been nonexistent, but a series of studies presented at the conference hinted at the widespread nature of the problem.
As many as 90 percent of Yemeni women say they have been harassed, while in Egypt, out of a sample of 1,000, 83 percent reported being verbally or physically abused.
A study in Lebanon reported that more than 30 percent of women said they had been harassed there.
"We are facing a phenomena that is limiting women's right to move ... and is threatening women's participation in all walks of life," said Nehad Abul Komsan, an Egyptian activist who organized the event with funding from the U.N. and the Swedish development agency.
Harassment has long been a problem in Mideast nations. But it was little discussed until three years ago, when blogs gave posted amateur videos showing a crowd of men assaulting women in downtown Cairo during a major Muslim holiday in one of the most shocking harassment incidents in the region.
The public outcry sparked an unprecedented public acknowledgment of the problem in Egypt and elsewhere in the region, and drove the Egyptian government to consider two draft bills addressing sexual harassment.
Sexual harassment, including verbal and physical assault, has been specifically criminalized in only half a dozen Arab countries over the past five years. Most of the 22 Arab states outlaw overtly violent acts like rape or lewd acts in public areas, according to a study by Abul Komsan.
Participants at the conference said men are threatened by an increasingly active female labor force, with conservatives laying the blame for harassment on women's dress and behavior.
In Syria, men from traditional homes go shopping in the market place instead of female family members to spare them harassment, said Sherifa Zuhur, a Lebanese-American academic at the conference.
Abul Komsan described how one of the victims of harassment she interviewed told her she had taken on the full-face veil to stave off the hassle.
"She told me 'I have put on the niqab. By God, what more can I do so they leave me alone,'" she said, quoting the woman. Some even said they were reconsidering going to work or school because of the constant harassment in the streets and on public transpiration.
Where segregation between the sexes is the norm and women are sheltered by religious or tribal customs, cases of sexual harassment are still common at homes and in the times when women must venture out, whether to markets, hospitals or government offices.
In Yemen, where nearly all women are covered from head to toe, activist Amal Basha said 90 percent of women in a published study reported harassment, specifically pinching.
"The religious leaders are always blaming the women, making them live in a constant state of fear because out there, someone is following them," she said.
If a harassment case is reported in Yemen, Basha added, traditional leaders interfere to cover it up, remove the evidence or terrorize the victim.
In Saudi Arabia, another country where women cover themselves completely and are nearly totally segregated from men in public life, women report harassment as well, according to Saudi activist Majid al-Eissa.
His organization, the National Family Safety Program, has been helping draft a law criminalizing violence against women in the conservative kingdom, where flirting can often cross the line into outright assault. Discussion of the law begins Tuesday.
"It will take time especially in this part of the world to absorb the gender mixture and the role each gender can play in society," he said. "We are coping with changes (of modern life), except in our minds."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091215/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_arabs_sexual_harassment
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Burka is not the solution. Burka clad women are being harassed in Arab/muslim countries.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harassment across Arab world drives women inside
CAIRO The sexual harassment of women in the streets, schools and work places of the Arab world is driving them to cover up and confine themselves to their homes, said activists at the first-ever regional conference addressing the once taboo topic.
Activists from 17 countries across the region met in Cairo for a two-day conference ending Monday and concluded that harassment was unchecked across the region because laws don't punish it, women don't report it and the authorities ignore it.
The harassment, including groping and verbal abuse, is a daily experience women in the region face and makes them wary of going into public spaces, whether it's the streets or jobs, the participants said. It happens regardless of what women are wearing.
With more and more women in schools, the workplace and politics, roles have changed but often traditional attitudes have not. Experts said in some places, like Egypt, harassment appears sometimes to be out of vengeance, from men blaming women for denied work opportunities.
Amal Madbouli, who wears the conservative face veil or niqab, told The Associated Press that despite her dress, she is harassed and described how a man came after her in the streets of her neighborhood.
"He hissed at me and kept asking me if I wanted to go with him to a quieter area, and to give him my phone number," said Madbouli, a mother of two. "This is a national security issue. I am a mother, and I want to be reassured when my daughters go out on the streets."
Statistics on harassment in the region have until recently been nonexistent, but a series of studies presented at the conference hinted at the widespread nature of the problem.
As many as 90 percent of Yemeni women say they have been harassed, while in Egypt, out of a sample of 1,000, 83 percent reported being verbally or physically abused.
A study in Lebanon reported that more than 30 percent of women said they had been harassed there.
"We are facing a phenomena that is limiting women's right to move ... and is threatening women's participation in all walks of life," said Nehad Abul Komsan, an Egyptian activist who organized the event with funding from the U.N. and the Swedish development agency.
Harassment has long been a problem in Mideast nations. But it was little discussed until three years ago, when blogs gave posted amateur videos showing a crowd of men assaulting women in downtown Cairo during a major Muslim holiday in one of the most shocking harassment incidents in the region.
The public outcry sparked an unprecedented public acknowledgment of the problem in Egypt and elsewhere in the region, and drove the Egyptian government to consider two draft bills addressing sexual harassment.
Sexual harassment, including verbal and physical assault, has been specifically criminalized in only half a dozen Arab countries over the past five years. Most of the 22 Arab states outlaw overtly violent acts like rape or lewd acts in public areas, according to a study by Abul Komsan.
Participants at the conference said men are threatened by an increasingly active female labor force, with conservatives laying the blame for harassment on women's dress and behavior.
In Syria, men from traditional homes go shopping in the market place instead of female family members to spare them harassment, said Sherifa Zuhur, a Lebanese-American academic at the conference.
Abul Komsan described how one of the victims of harassment she interviewed told her she had taken on the full-face veil to stave off the hassle.
"She told me 'I have put on the niqab. By God, what more can I do so they leave me alone,'" she said, quoting the woman. Some even said they were reconsidering going to work or school because of the constant harassment in the streets and on public transpiration.
Where segregation between the sexes is the norm and women are sheltered by religious or tribal customs, cases of sexual harassment are still common at homes and in the times when women must venture out, whether to markets, hospitals or government offices.
In Yemen, where nearly all women are covered from head to toe, activist Amal Basha said 90 percent of women in a published study reported harassment, specifically pinching.
"The religious leaders are always blaming the women, making them live in a constant state of fear because out there, someone is following them," she said.
If a harassment case is reported in Yemen, Basha added, traditional leaders interfere to cover it up, remove the evidence or terrorize the victim.
In Saudi Arabia, another country where women cover themselves completely and are nearly totally segregated from men in public life, women report harassment as well, according to Saudi activist Majid al-Eissa.
His organization, the National Family Safety Program, has been helping draft a law criminalizing violence against women in the conservative kingdom, where flirting can often cross the line into outright assault. Discussion of the law begins Tuesday.
"It will take time especially in this part of the world to absorb the gender mixture and the role each gender can play in society," he said. "We are coping with changes (of modern life), except in our minds."
taul
Siasat.pk - Blogger
Rape victims offer advice to today's college women
http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/12/15/se ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"
--CNN) -- If you are already in college or headed there, sit down. If you're the parent or friend of a student, listen up.
One in five college women will be raped, or experience an attempted rape, before graduation. Less than 5 percent will report these crimes to officials on or off campus, and, when they do, there's a good chance the system will let them down. :o
A handful of former students who spoke out and reported rapes at their schools told CNN they didn't feel protected by their universites. They were initially interviewed as part of an investigative series by the Center for Public Integrity, a Washington-based nonprofit that says it seeks to make institutions more transparent and accountable.
The women welcomed the chance to share their experiences and offer advice to students today.
"I was too young, still in too much shock and too emotionally gone to make decisions on my own," said a woman who, as a freshman, reported a rape in 2001. "I needed an adult I trusted. The school did not provide such a person."
Schools are aware it's a problem, a big problem. ... They're just not dealing with this issue head-on.
--Kristen Lombardi, Center for Public Integrity
The shocking statistics of rape and attempted rape on campus came to light in a study conducted by the U.S. Department of Justice nine years ago. But the recently released series published by the Washington center shows that while federal law requires schools to act on sexual assault allegations and look out for the rights of victims, many higher-education institutions aren't making the grade.
"Schools are aware it's a problem, a big problem," said Kristen Lombardi, the center's lead reporter for Sexual Assault on Campus: A Frustrating Search for Justice. She pointed to a "culture of silence" and said critics say, "The biggest sin is one of omission. They're just not dealing with this issue head-on in a public manner with their student bodies."
Over the course of nine months, Lombardi and her colleagues spoke to 33 women who'd reported rapes, interviewed about 50 experts and surveyed more than 150 crisis clinics and programs on or near campuses. They also reviewed cases and combed through 10 years of complaints against institutions that had been filed with the Department of Education :(
The alleged rape victims and others shared stories of secretive hearings, administrators who encouraged students to drop complaints and failures to sufficiently pursue the accusations and seek punishments when warranted. Others spoke of gag orders, confidential mediations where women sat across from their attackers and feelings of being revictimized at the institutions they thought would help them.
I was too young, still in too much shock and too emotionally gone to make decisions on my own. I needed an adult I trusted.
--Student rape victim, 2001
Many said administrators appeared more concerned with protecting their employer, or the school's reputation, than they were with protecting students. A number of women ended up leaving their universities. One student in the investigative series was written about posthumously, after killing herself.
Part of the problem stems from ignorance, said S. Daniel Carter, the director of public policy for Security on Campus, a national organization committed to advancing safety for students.
For one, he said acquaintance rapes, which dominate campus assaults, are often wrongly dismissed as "misunderstandings." And lack of coordination when it comes to responses isn't helped by the fact that too few school officials are trained to understand the impact of sexual assaults.
"People are going to do the best they can, but they only have limited knowledge based on their profession," said Connie Kirkland of George Mason University in Virginia, a school that's emerged as a model for others.
Kirkland, the school's director of sexual assault services, has held this position since the office was established in 1993, making it among the first of its kind. She said the university jumped to action soon after then-Gov. Douglas Wilder issued in 1992 recommendations regarding campus sexual assaults. And while other Virginia schools made efforts early on, Kirkland said that when Wilder left office in 1994, most schools folded their programs.
I wish I'd been less trusting of my surroundings. ... In college, you feel as if you are invincible.
--Sexually assaulted student, 2007
Meantime, budgetary woes at schools across the country mean the programs that do exist often come and go, she added.
Kirkland said nothing serves victims better than having a clear point of contact on campus, an office and professionals who are trained -- and can train others -- to understand all aspects of these sexual assault crimes, including legal options, the psychological toll and health concerns.
A compassionate and well-meaning professor, administrator or residential adviser, for example, may listen, but they can't be expected to provide full-fledged therapy or tell a student what it means to file a police report or go to court, she said. And a therapist can't offer legal navigation any better than a law enforcement officer can be responsible for emotional processing.
The women who spoke to CNN described what they would have done differently if they'd known then what they know now. In general practice, CNN does not name sexual assault victims. Here, in their own words, is their advice:
Feeling invincible, an age of denial and disbelief
"I wish I'd been less trusting of my surroundings," said a woman who said she was assaulted as a sophomore in 2007. "In college, you feel as if you are invincible, when in reality, trouble could be hiding behind the faade of a casual get-together or a party where you feel completely safe. Always keep control of yourself and your surroundings, and keep a close eye out for your friends as well.
"And if you are a friend of a person who has been assaulted, all I can say is that though it might be hard, please listen and support that person," continued the former student, who said she was "met with a response that I never expected -- laughter and disbelief. Because of that, I kept silent until my attacker assaulted a friend of mine almost a year later."
Said another rape victim: "Do not binge drink or leave drinks unattended."
Reaching out elsewhere, protecting your interests
"I wish I'd told my parents sooner," said a woman who reported a campus rape that happened in her dorm room in 2003. "My parents now know about it, but when it initially happened, they did not. I was just so ashamed.
It is important to know all of your options after you are assaulted so you can choose how to overcome this.
--College gang-rape victim, 2001
RELATED TOPICS
* Sexual Offenses
* College Life
* Crime
"You're too inhibited to make rational decisions, to understand emotionally what's going on," she added. "Whether it's outside counsel, law enforcement, a friend or a parent, do not rely on the university to serve your best interests. And don't sign anything."
Seeking out professionals who understand
"Get help from a professional as soon as possible. I spoke with a counselor at Victim's Assistance a few days after my assault, and that was crucial in helping me overcome this. There are a lot of different emotions after you are assaulted, and speaking with someone who really understands sexual assault is imperative," said a woman who reported a gang rape by athletes in 2001 when she was a sophomore.
Furthermore, she said, "Family members and friends are also victims when this happens to someone they care about. The technical term is 'secondary survivors.' Sometimes it is difficult for them to deal with their own emotions and still be supportive to the primary survivor. Secondary survivors should not be afraid to get professional help, or to speak with a counselor about their own feelings. That way, they are not projecting their emotions onto the primary survivor. Seeking professional help also gives you options, and it is important to know all of your options after you are assaulted so you can choose how to overcome this."
http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/12/15/se ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"
--CNN) -- If you are already in college or headed there, sit down. If you're the parent or friend of a student, listen up.
One in five college women will be raped, or experience an attempted rape, before graduation. Less than 5 percent will report these crimes to officials on or off campus, and, when they do, there's a good chance the system will let them down. :o
A handful of former students who spoke out and reported rapes at their schools told CNN they didn't feel protected by their universites. They were initially interviewed as part of an investigative series by the Center for Public Integrity, a Washington-based nonprofit that says it seeks to make institutions more transparent and accountable.
The women welcomed the chance to share their experiences and offer advice to students today.
"I was too young, still in too much shock and too emotionally gone to make decisions on my own," said a woman who, as a freshman, reported a rape in 2001. "I needed an adult I trusted. The school did not provide such a person."
Schools are aware it's a problem, a big problem. ... They're just not dealing with this issue head-on.
--Kristen Lombardi, Center for Public Integrity
The shocking statistics of rape and attempted rape on campus came to light in a study conducted by the U.S. Department of Justice nine years ago. But the recently released series published by the Washington center shows that while federal law requires schools to act on sexual assault allegations and look out for the rights of victims, many higher-education institutions aren't making the grade.
"Schools are aware it's a problem, a big problem," said Kristen Lombardi, the center's lead reporter for Sexual Assault on Campus: A Frustrating Search for Justice. She pointed to a "culture of silence" and said critics say, "The biggest sin is one of omission. They're just not dealing with this issue head-on in a public manner with their student bodies."
Over the course of nine months, Lombardi and her colleagues spoke to 33 women who'd reported rapes, interviewed about 50 experts and surveyed more than 150 crisis clinics and programs on or near campuses. They also reviewed cases and combed through 10 years of complaints against institutions that had been filed with the Department of Education :(
The alleged rape victims and others shared stories of secretive hearings, administrators who encouraged students to drop complaints and failures to sufficiently pursue the accusations and seek punishments when warranted. Others spoke of gag orders, confidential mediations where women sat across from their attackers and feelings of being revictimized at the institutions they thought would help them.
I was too young, still in too much shock and too emotionally gone to make decisions on my own. I needed an adult I trusted.
--Student rape victim, 2001
Many said administrators appeared more concerned with protecting their employer, or the school's reputation, than they were with protecting students. A number of women ended up leaving their universities. One student in the investigative series was written about posthumously, after killing herself.
Part of the problem stems from ignorance, said S. Daniel Carter, the director of public policy for Security on Campus, a national organization committed to advancing safety for students.
For one, he said acquaintance rapes, which dominate campus assaults, are often wrongly dismissed as "misunderstandings." And lack of coordination when it comes to responses isn't helped by the fact that too few school officials are trained to understand the impact of sexual assaults.
"People are going to do the best they can, but they only have limited knowledge based on their profession," said Connie Kirkland of George Mason University in Virginia, a school that's emerged as a model for others.
Kirkland, the school's director of sexual assault services, has held this position since the office was established in 1993, making it among the first of its kind. She said the university jumped to action soon after then-Gov. Douglas Wilder issued in 1992 recommendations regarding campus sexual assaults. And while other Virginia schools made efforts early on, Kirkland said that when Wilder left office in 1994, most schools folded their programs.
I wish I'd been less trusting of my surroundings. ... In college, you feel as if you are invincible.
--Sexually assaulted student, 2007
Meantime, budgetary woes at schools across the country mean the programs that do exist often come and go, she added.
Kirkland said nothing serves victims better than having a clear point of contact on campus, an office and professionals who are trained -- and can train others -- to understand all aspects of these sexual assault crimes, including legal options, the psychological toll and health concerns.
A compassionate and well-meaning professor, administrator or residential adviser, for example, may listen, but they can't be expected to provide full-fledged therapy or tell a student what it means to file a police report or go to court, she said. And a therapist can't offer legal navigation any better than a law enforcement officer can be responsible for emotional processing.
The women who spoke to CNN described what they would have done differently if they'd known then what they know now. In general practice, CNN does not name sexual assault victims. Here, in their own words, is their advice:
Feeling invincible, an age of denial and disbelief
"I wish I'd been less trusting of my surroundings," said a woman who said she was assaulted as a sophomore in 2007. "In college, you feel as if you are invincible, when in reality, trouble could be hiding behind the faade of a casual get-together or a party where you feel completely safe. Always keep control of yourself and your surroundings, and keep a close eye out for your friends as well.
"And if you are a friend of a person who has been assaulted, all I can say is that though it might be hard, please listen and support that person," continued the former student, who said she was "met with a response that I never expected -- laughter and disbelief. Because of that, I kept silent until my attacker assaulted a friend of mine almost a year later."
Said another rape victim: "Do not binge drink or leave drinks unattended."
Reaching out elsewhere, protecting your interests
"I wish I'd told my parents sooner," said a woman who reported a campus rape that happened in her dorm room in 2003. "My parents now know about it, but when it initially happened, they did not. I was just so ashamed.
It is important to know all of your options after you are assaulted so you can choose how to overcome this.
--College gang-rape victim, 2001
RELATED TOPICS
* Sexual Offenses
* College Life
* Crime
"You're too inhibited to make rational decisions, to understand emotionally what's going on," she added. "Whether it's outside counsel, law enforcement, a friend or a parent, do not rely on the university to serve your best interests. And don't sign anything."
Seeking out professionals who understand
"Get help from a professional as soon as possible. I spoke with a counselor at Victim's Assistance a few days after my assault, and that was crucial in helping me overcome this. There are a lot of different emotions after you are assaulted, and speaking with someone who really understands sexual assault is imperative," said a woman who reported a gang rape by athletes in 2001 when she was a sophomore.
Furthermore, she said, "Family members and friends are also victims when this happens to someone they care about. The technical term is 'secondary survivors.' Sometimes it is difficult for them to deal with their own emotions and still be supportive to the primary survivor. Secondary survivors should not be afraid to get professional help, or to speak with a counselor about their own feelings. That way, they are not projecting their emotions onto the primary survivor. Seeking professional help also gives you options, and it is important to know all of your options after you are assaulted so you can choose how to overcome this."
contra
Senator (1k+ posts)
Belgium places ban on burqas in public
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Source:http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=172150
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BRUSSELS A vote against wearing face-covering veils in puclic was unanimously established on Wednesday. This legislation represents a major legislative step, which could make Belguim the first European country to impose such a religious prohibition. [clap]
The full House of Representatives is expected to vote on the issue late April.
The Interior Affairs Committee representing all major parties was unanimous Wednesday in backing the bill. The six parliamentarians from the MR french-speaking liberal party said the principle of "recognize to know" trumped other considerations in the issue.
"We cannot allow someone to claim the right to look at others without being seen," said Daniel Bacquelaine, who proposed the bill. "It is necessary that the law forbids the wearing of clothes that totally mask and encloses an individual," he said, adding he was not targeting the classic headscarf worn by many Muslim women.
The parliamentarians are specifically targeting the body-covering burqa and face-veiling niqab, which are still very rare features in Belgian public life. "We have to act as of today to avoid (its) development," Bacquelaine said.
"Wearing the burqa in public is not compatible with an open, liberal, tolerant society," he said.
In Belgium, the proponents of the ban argue that such all-covering garb poses security issues as well as threatens democratic values. Some feared, however, that the bill would not stand a legal challenge.
In France on Tuesday, the Council of State, the nation's highest administrative body, warned that a prohibition on full-body Islamic veils in public risked being found unconstitutional. President Nicolas Sarkozy said last year that such clothing was "not welcome" in France.
Such a ban could also be challenged at the Strasbourg-based European Court of Human Rights.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source:http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=172150
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BRUSSELS A vote against wearing face-covering veils in puclic was unanimously established on Wednesday. This legislation represents a major legislative step, which could make Belguim the first European country to impose such a religious prohibition. [clap]
The full House of Representatives is expected to vote on the issue late April.
The Interior Affairs Committee representing all major parties was unanimous Wednesday in backing the bill. The six parliamentarians from the MR french-speaking liberal party said the principle of "recognize to know" trumped other considerations in the issue.
"We cannot allow someone to claim the right to look at others without being seen," said Daniel Bacquelaine, who proposed the bill. "It is necessary that the law forbids the wearing of clothes that totally mask and encloses an individual," he said, adding he was not targeting the classic headscarf worn by many Muslim women.
The parliamentarians are specifically targeting the body-covering burqa and face-veiling niqab, which are still very rare features in Belgian public life. "We have to act as of today to avoid (its) development," Bacquelaine said.
"Wearing the burqa in public is not compatible with an open, liberal, tolerant society," he said.
In Belgium, the proponents of the ban argue that such all-covering garb poses security issues as well as threatens democratic values. Some feared, however, that the bill would not stand a legal challenge.
In France on Tuesday, the Council of State, the nation's highest administrative body, warned that a prohibition on full-body Islamic veils in public risked being found unconstitutional. President Nicolas Sarkozy said last year that such clothing was "not welcome" in France.
Such a ban could also be challenged at the Strasbourg-based European Court of Human Rights.
taul
Siasat.pk - Blogger
badboy said:
--A lost mind would bank on any "misinformation" and "myths along with fantasies" and not surprisingly his desperate cheering peers infested with illusions/aberrations would vainly complement :lol: but,Alas little do they know of any "Knowledge and reality" :ugeek: :) guess you still haven't regrouped from the last time yet,shame and absurdness did get to you :lol: [hilar]
A
abbasiali
Guest
I believe these women have shown the correct way, My wife eat same way, the way these women eat, in public places and enjoy her meal with out any problem, in fact it really amazed people, how simple and easy to observe your requirements such as hijab and burqa and keep enjoying life with out any problem. This is an open lesson for those who find reasons to avoid basic needs. Allah bless on these people too.contra said:
taul
Siasat.pk - Blogger
abbasiali said:
--Couldn't agree more brother Abbasi :) you'd be more amazed by knowing that western girls who revert,having lived their teenage lives with all the hype and carelessness opt for this full "Niqab" as well,let alone the other adult women :D Masha-Allah women who adorn themselves with such a beautiful,eloquent and a modest garb have absolutely no difficulty at all whatsoever while carrying out any activity infact they feel quite comfortable,content and secure [clap] the correct,simplest and easiest way being lifting up their "Niqab" a bit and then taking the morsel or sipping whatever have you,and NOT the "burka" as some are so confused with even the terms here :shock: i hope people are atleast clear on the "Thobe" which is a long dress worn by Arabs and even muslims all around just like the burka or Abaya which is the long dress for women :D
A
abbasiali
Guest
Unfortunately lack of knowledge along with misinterpretation has done a lot of damage to Muslim living, and thats the main reason, every one who doesn't belong to Islam, start criticizing,taul said:
Star Gazer
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
@ contra
I admire your persistance and efforts to try to counter every argument and evidence presented and I mean it sincerely. I think you have confused two things and are also feeling the need to defend you case.
I think that religious matters should be solved in discussion with the religious followers especially in context of Islam because we believe that the religious dictates are explicit and clear if there is any confusion in following it is because of misunderstanding and should be handled with care. This is also the way of democracy you can not impose the will of one sect over other even if they are in majority. This rule is true for seccular laws only not for religious laws.
Secondly if this your argument for the Burqa in France then perhaps you are trying to advocate the same for muslims in india.
One question please do respond;
In the presence of the information regarding the Christian priests now known to be sexually inappropriate with children and since Vatican has laready oplogised over it and the Pope is going to say something more Do you think Mr. Zarkosy should force the people and prevent them from going to church or any other such law should be made to safeguard the innocent boys and girls from being harmed?
I admire your persistance and efforts to try to counter every argument and evidence presented and I mean it sincerely. I think you have confused two things and are also feeling the need to defend you case.
I think that religious matters should be solved in discussion with the religious followers especially in context of Islam because we believe that the religious dictates are explicit and clear if there is any confusion in following it is because of misunderstanding and should be handled with care. This is also the way of democracy you can not impose the will of one sect over other even if they are in majority. This rule is true for seccular laws only not for religious laws.
Secondly if this your argument for the Burqa in France then perhaps you are trying to advocate the same for muslims in india.
One question please do respond;
In the presence of the information regarding the Christian priests now known to be sexually inappropriate with children and since Vatican has laready oplogised over it and the Pope is going to say something more Do you think Mr. Zarkosy should force the people and prevent them from going to church or any other such law should be made to safeguard the innocent boys and girls from being harmed?
contra
Senator (1k+ posts)
sobia bibi,
So i guess atleast as far as Catholic churches etc. are concerned, children should not be allowed unless they are accompanied with a parent or guardian.
Actually, i think children should be kept away from religion till the age of 18yrs. and only then they should be given a free choice to practice a religion if they want to...
What "evidence" are you referring to?Star Gazer said:
Well, he should definitely bring a law to ensure that children are kept away from priests who are not married. I think in the Catholic sect priests do not marry and are required to practice celibacy.Star Gazer said:
So i guess atleast as far as Catholic churches etc. are concerned, children should not be allowed unless they are accompanied with a parent or guardian.
Actually, i think children should be kept away from religion till the age of 18yrs. and only then they should be given a free choice to practice a religion if they want to...
Star Gazer
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Well, he should definitely bring a law to ensure that children are kept away from priests who are not married. I think in the Catholic sect priests do not marry and are required to practice celibacy.contra said:
So i guess atleast as far as Catholic churches etc. are concerned, children should not be allowed unless they are accompanied with a parent or guardian.
Actually, i think children should be kept away from religion till the age of 18yrs. and only then they should be given a free choice to practice a religion if they want to...[/quote:a43z0cwt]
Point noted, this being the case I think then you should also refrain from commenting upon how the religious practices should be followed, your argument should be as you have stated just above.
Secondly you did not answer to the point about do you think that same laws should be made for the indian muslims too?
This is double-standard of France and Beligum, the countries which were in the forefront to devise EEC based on liberty and freedom. The ladies who wish to be top-less or wear skirts or whatever it is their freedom but the ladies who wish to wear Burka or Hijab cannot! what a different yard-stick and it is hypocrisy. I think that all Muslims who are French and Belgian Citizen should vehemently protest against this which is against the freedom of choice. All Islamic countries specially the Kings and Khadims must take up this matter at the highest level. It is not going to end here. First France throwed the "feeler" to test the water, now Belgium and next all.
A
abbasiali
Guest
Brother You are very right,babadeena said:
Unfortunately, these people they use our own people to go against us, very recent example happened in Quebec Canada, first they brought So called Muslim scholars in front who brought the Fatwa against the veil, and then they start implement as law in Quebec, though its in with the Government run functions, but still, point which rose at that time, who betrayed, non-Muslims, No Its Muslims who are doing good job for them. However people are struggling for their fate and are taking good care within their limits.
