Burkas not welcome in France: Sarkozy

[foqia khan]

COUNTLESS SUPPRESSED WOMEN ON INTERNET....CONCERNING DRESS CHOICES....DON'T HAVE THEIR VOICE VALUE.
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj8p-wKjB80[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZpP7qYmqBM[/video]


[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S57wn2QRaks[/video]


[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnsIeh_s05g[/video] DISTRICT JUDGE


[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyE6wXKc-RY[/video] MINISTER DAUGHTER

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voit_ktbSfc[/video] MODEL



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8RtF4UlF3g SCHOLAR

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIx8bh37YJE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z4XJumtpMM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcGEwbdoqgc HUSHAND WIFE individually accepted islam before marriage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khjtrIkYU5I extremely lost

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kzbZsg9Uao young lady like to dress
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VByrvr8qU3A american lady in burqa

 

[sagaciouscorpion]

@Foqia

Jazakallah...

May be contra can explain who is suppressing these women..............

 

[contra]

1. First, lets be clear about one thing, women being forced to wear burqa and
women being forced not to wear clothes or wear less clothes falls in the same
category...oppression of women.

2. I have given one example in my previous post about how a muslim father killed
his daughter because she refused to wear burqa. This incident happened in
Canada.

3. In Secular countries there is freedom of religion. You can convert to any
religion without fear of being declared 'Wajib ul Katal'. I hope you get the
significance of this.

4. The problem is that you will never see women coming out in the open and
saying that they are being forced to wear burqa, out of fear of being 'killed' by
their own father, brother or husband.

 

[sagaciouscorpion]

So what do you think ..... How many of the fathers can kill their daughters for not wearing Burqa?? give me a ratio? All, 1 in 5,10, 15, 20, 25,100. 500. 1000... or more...

and how many will not...

give me a ratio? All, 1 in 5,10, 15, 20, 25,100. 500. 1000... or more...

Your needle is stuck on one incident.... an incident which can be used to subjugate Muslims...

In the same Europe (I think it was Austria) a father kept her daughter in prison for 24 years in the basement... using her as a sex slave and had kids through her... (I hope you remember...) .... so Mr. Sarkozi and others in the EU should have been looking for formulation of laws to protect daughters from their fathers ... but since that has nothing to do with Muslim values... He and others dont care...

This is nothing but hypocrisy....and as we call it "liberal fascism"

 

[contra]

Sagaciouscorpion,

1. The Austrian Incest Case:
This is an excellent example.
a) Law against incest exist in Europe.
b) Even though the law is present, this incident happened.
c) Now, imagine how many women and girls are force-ably being made to wear burqa, but have no law to protect them.
So...it is very important that a law be brought for their protection and freedom.

2. A very important point here is that just because an incident is not being reported does not mean that it has not occurred.
In countries like India, Pakistan etc. incidents like the one above (incest) are not reported. Girls are made to endure pain and humiliation in the name of family honour.

3. I can speak about India, there was a report published sometime back about the pattern and number of rapes taking place in India.
It was discovered that rapes are highest not in cities, but in villages and in most cases the rapist is a close relative (uncle, cousin etc.).
[I cannot give a source right now, but this has been discussed several times on news channels]

 

[sagaciouscorpion]

So what about the rights of those who Want to cover themselves???

you would force them remove their burqa to protect those who dont want to...

tomorrow sarkozi will come out and say ... okay ......my wife is polygamous... since she has independence to do that... other girls might have such desires but their family prevents them to exercise their desires... so we impose a law that every girl should have four or five mates.....what nonsense??

this whole logic is flawed...

About laws against incest... It is punishable in "SOME" european countries....and you would be happy to know that in your favourite Sarkozi's country it is legal...even in Belgium and Brazil it is not considered a crime..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_incest

May be tommorrow Mr. Sarkoxi might need to come with some new ides....Lets see who follows him then...

 

[mirchi]

Sagaciouscorpion,

1. The Austrian Incest Case:
This is an excellent example.
a) Law against incest exist in Europe.
b) Even though the law is present, this incident happened.
c) Now, imagine how many women and girls are force-ably being made to wear burqa, but have no law to protect them.
So...it is very important that a law be brought for their protection and freedom.

2. A very important point here is that just because an incident is not being reported does not mean that it has not occurred.
In countries like India, Pakistan etc. incidents like the one above (incest) are not reported. Girls are made to endure pain and humiliation in the name of family honour.

3. I can speak about India, there was a report published sometime back about the pattern and number of rapes taking place in India.
It was discovered that rapes are highest not in cities, but in villages and in most cases the rapist is a close relative (uncle, cousin etc.).
[I cannot give a source right now, but this has been discussed several times on news channels]

Mr. contra I requested you before also but...............................
In Islam a father can force his children to follow Islamic values. It is compulsory for a Muslim woman to wear hijab. Now this is another thing if any so called Muslim is not following. There are so many so called Muslims (by name)who will do anything like drinking, even eating pork. We don't want their comments in this issue.

 

[taul]

@ contra

-I Urge you to refrain once again from Islamic Capital Punishments as being Muslims we all accept and follow them even if it means who converts to other religion from Islam "Hope you get this Loud 'n' Clear".We submit to All Punishments.

-I really have started to wonder about your IQ since time and time again you raise things which are accepted by All Muslims,then i draw conclusion it needs common sense to ponder over things which clearly you lack.

-You are trying so unsuccessfully to object over things which no one here believes in,,reason i believe is frustration!!

-You can happily and freely raise your kids and clan on your beliefs although i would urge you to start using your brain and think of your presence in this world and ponder over the nature and come to terms with reality as nothing here is created useless everything has a purpose,like us Human Beings to Submit to God(Allah S.W.T)and Obey HIS Commands,everything is so in sequence and in order controlled by only One Supreme and High Authority Allah.

 

[foqia khan]

In any religion if parents or family members behave cruely or inhumanly, they cannot be justified by the religion. This is totaly their own attitude n fustration.
The result from the topic which is discussed here I concluded that there r two extremist groups...one group wants to put clothes on a woman without her will..... n the other group also wants to take off the clothes of the woman without her will .
no where the effected women r being consulted b-coz it is man dominent society n they think that women have no brain n no courage .

 

[contra]

sagaciousscorpion bhai,

About laws against incest... It is punishable in "SOME" european countries....and you would be happy to know that in your favourite Sarkozi's country it is legal...even in Belgium and Brazil it is not considered a crime..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_incest

May be tommorrow Mr. Sarkoxi might need to come with some new ides....Lets see who follows him then...

1. Sex with minors is illegal and punishable. Yes, even in France.

2. The law making Incest a punishable offense was abolished a few years ago. Here it is very important to note that both the partners have to be above 18, and the relationship has to be consensual. Both have to be in the relationship willingly.
What this means is that the punishment for such a relationship has been removed.
[ Personally i don't agree with this.]

France dropped incest from the penal code under Napoleon - 200 years ago.

But siblings may not marry, and in 2004, a man who was having a sexual relationship with his half-sister was refused legal paternity of his own child.

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6424337.stm

So...sex with minors is an illegal and punishable.

4. The western way of thinking is that an individual, once he/she attains the age of majority, should have the right to decide for her/him self how to live their lives.

tomorrow sarkozi will come out and say ... okay ......my wife is polygamous... since she has independence to do that... other girls might have such desires but their family prevents them to exercise their desires... so we impose a law that every girl should have four or five mates.....what nonsense??

5. Like i said above, its about freedom to an individual. If an adult female thinks that she wants to have multiple partners, then that's her personal choice, and it should be respected...

So what about the rights of those who Want to cover themselves???

you would force them remove their burqa to protect those who dont want to...

6. This is a valid point. But i think women who want to wear burqa should think about their sisters who don't want to wear burqa and are facing death at the hands of their father or brother.
Protection of women and freedom of women should come first. Before personal religious beliefs or anything else...

 

[niazi]

@contra

What if ur wife or daughter want to have multiple partners,if they want to go out with out clothes,let them do what ever they want,and make your society just like westren,bcuz these attitutedes leads to break home and to destroy moral values of society.
People like you actually do understand ,but its your bad luck that u dont want to know what your creator wants from you,Allah is decent he wants same modesty from us he has created us thats why he knows us and has send upon us his commands so that we can spend our lives according to his teachings.
If you dont believe in Allah then its your problem why you are wasiting your time here.

 

[sagaciouscorpion]

@Contra...

If we start applying the logic of individual freedom of choice.. we will have a society (which is predicted in the saying of our Prophet SAW) where there sill be no difference in human and animals..............

And lets start applying your logic from another angle.. a woman exposes herself.. looking at her pictures of indecent exposure a man gets crazy and goes and rapes the woman who was jogging in the park... this happens sometimes... you might have awareness about the effect of movies on children and adolescents...

so we should ask all women to cover themselves for the protection of those who are not inciting men to act in inhuman way...

simple...

about incest i am aware of the facts you mentioned... but add another line as well... if two minors commit incest.. they can be pardoned because of their "minority" and if two majors do that... its their problem... not punishable by law..... rest is child abuse... wow what a protection law gives to incest...

imagine such a society... in my view it would be worse than hell..

 

[taul]

-To all Pakistanis and Muslims we should raise our kids the way we believe in and i hope we all have seen contra views i hope he should raise his kids the way he thinks and i acknowkedge niazi's point of view..

-A person who doesn't recognize his Creator is no different from an animal as animals choose to do as they wish and have no distinction between good and bad..Just as you'd go out on any kinda job you'd be required to follow STRICTLY it's do's and dont's and if done otheriwse you would be penalized and punished,similarly Laws for all Human Beings are provided by Our Only One Creator "Allah",whomsoever transgresses them will be Punished.

 

[contra]

niazi bhai,

What if ur wife or daughter want to have multiple partners,if they want to go out with out clothes,let them do what ever they want,and make your society just like westren,bcuz these attitutedes leads to break home and to destroy moral values of society.

If my daughter is above 18yrs. of age, I will not interfere in her personal life.
If my wife wants such a lifestyle, i will divorce her.

This is an open discussion forum. Iam giving my opinion and am reading the opinions and thoughts of others and debating and discussing with them.
There is difference of opinion, which is good.
Civilised discussion and debate, that's the purpose of this forum...isn't it?

 

[mirchi]

niazi bhai,

What if ur wife or daughter want to have multiple partners,if they want to go out with out clothes,let them do what ever they want,and make your society just like westren,bcuz these attitutedes leads to break home and to destroy moral values of society.

If my daughter is above 18yrs. of age, I will not interfere in her personal life.
If my wife wants such a lifestyle, i will divorce her.

This is an open discussion forum. Iam giving my opinion and am reading the opinions and thoughts of others and debating and discussing with them.
There is difference of opinion, which is good.
Civilised discussion and debate, that's the purpose of this forum...isn't it?

What a contradiction. You are strong supporter of Sarkozi's act and freedom for females whatever they like. But on the other hand you will divorce your wife. Why???? Why she should not be having multiple husbands??? Is it not her right????

 

[taul]

Quite funny and Ludicrous thing as i read "Civilized and Nudity"in the same line and complementing one another as far as related discussion goes!!! :o

and ladies and gentlemen we all have seen what contra wishes for his offsprings so as a freedom supporter we should all wish him luck.

 

[sagaciouscorpion]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[contra]

mirchi bhai,
Yes, she has a right to have multiple partners...
And i have a right to decide whether i want to be a part of it...

 

[mirchi]

mirchi bhai,
Yes, she has a right to have multiple partners...
And i have a right to decide whether i want to be a part of it...

It means that you don't accept her rights? Right?
You should accept her with all her rights. Why to be separated?

 

[contra]

mirchi bhai,

It means that you don't accept her rights? Right?
You should accept her with all her rights. Why to be separated?

I do accept her rights...that's why i am not saying that i will kill her...
I have some rights too, and i am exercising them...i have a right to decide whether i want to be in such a relationship...