Breaking News: Raymond Davis has been freed

patriot

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: Deal being questioned even by those who shouldn`t

'Blood-money' or compensation applies ONLY against UNINTENTIONAL, ACCIDENTAL murder.

4:92 It is not conceivable that a believer will slay another believer unless it be a mistake. If one kills a believer by mistake, there is the duty of freeing a believing person from bondage; may it be slavery, extreme poverty, crushing debt or oppression. And pay compensation to the victim's family unless they forgo it by way of charity. In case the victim was a believer, and belonged to a tribe who are at war with you, free a believing person from bondage. If the victim was a believer, and belonged to a tribe with whom you have a peace treaty, you should pay the compensation to his family in addition to freeing a believing person from bondage. For those who find this settlement beyond their means, two consecutive months of Abstinence, as in the month of Ramadhan, are ordained by way of repentance from God. And God is the Knower, the Wise.
4:93 Whoever slays a believer intentionally, his or her maximum punishment, considering the circumstances, is up to capital punishment (2:178, 5:32-33). His requital shall be Hell, therein to abide, and God will condemn him, and reject him and prepare for him awful suffering.

It is good to learn Quranic wisdom that blood money applies to unintentional accidental death only. Otherwise money inclines and every slayer can be set free if one is able to pay its price. But respect for money than respect for life deforms justice and society.

Where are the mufties?
 

FaisalLatif

Councller (250+ posts)
Spy game: The CIA, Pakistan and 'blood money'

Source: http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/03/2011317131348571552.html

CIA contractor and former Blackwater employee Raymond Davis flees Pakistan after killing two men in a murky mission.

Chris Arsenault Last Modified: 17 Mar 2011 14:33

2011317131311477738_20.jpg

Raymond Davis killed two Pakistanis, enraging many in a country already suspicious of US intervention [GALLO/GETTY]


The case of Raymond Davis has all the trappings of a 21st century spy novel.

It is a story of murder, prison and clandestine payments, starring a burly former US Special Forces soldier tangled in a murky web of intelligence agencies, competing diplomats and – differentiating his case from Cold War spy sagas – shady private military contractors.

Pakistani authorities released the CIA contractor from prison on Wednesday, after families of two motorcyclists he killed in January were paid a reported $2.3mn in "blood money".

Details surrounding the case are sketchy at best: a series of claims and counter-claims from various diplomats, agencies and organisations which are almost impossible to independently verify. And the stakes are high.

Privatising conflict
"The case highlights the fact that the US is engaged in a covert war in Pakistan - a country it has not declared war against," says Jeremy Scahill, author of Blackwater: the Rise of the World’s Most Powerful Mercenary Army.

Davis, 36, once hustled for Blackwater, the controversial military contractor responsible for killing civilians in Iraq, which has since been rebranded as Xe Services LLC.

"He worked for Blackwater when the company was working on the drone bombing campaign with the JSOC [Joint Special Operations Command], and the CIA against high-value individuals in Pakistan," Scahill told Al Jazeera.

Davis owns Hyperion Protective Consultants, according to ABC News. The firm sells surveillance equipment and provides clients with "loss and risk management professionals".

In the new world of intelligence, individuals can wear several different hats, often at the same time.

"In theory, it would be cheaper to have government agents do the work contractors are doing: they don't get paid as much and there is no dedicated profit margin," says Eamon Javers, author of Broker, Trader, Lawyer, Spy: The Secret World of Corporate Espionage.

"There is a huge open question about the legal jurisdiction these contractors are operating under in war zones. They are not accountable to US military justice, as special ops would be," Javers told Al Jazeera.

Christine Fair, a Pakistan expert at Georgetown University says, "There is nothing abnormal about military contractors gathering intelligence, conducting warfare or helping with diplomacy", concerns about high costs, impunity and jurisdiction notwithstanding.

"The way we [Americans] do business, fight wars, provide assistance, and the way we run our embassies is being done through contractors," Fair told Al Jazeera.

Who is immune?
When Pakistani authorities arrested Davis in Lahore, he carried classic tools of the spy trade: a Glock semiautomatic pistol, a long-range wireless set, camera, flashlight and small telescope.

The initial public conflict between Pakistan and the US revolved around Davis's diplomatic status. The US said the contractor had diplomatic immunity from prosecution, while Pakistani authorities disputed the claim.

According to Fair, the issue of diplomatic immunity is simple and was "misconstrued" throughout the Davis saga. Whether Davis was a contractor or a formal embassy employee is not important for the question of immunity, she says.

"The diplomatic status of staff members is set by the sending countries," she says, referring in this case to the US. "The Pakistani government has one choice to make: to accept the terms or not to. Pakistan accepted the terms and issued a visa and then re-issued it."

There is no debate about the process for getting diplomatic immunity, as Pakistan and the US have signed the Vienna Convention which sets out the rules.
But Jeremy Scahill is not sure Davis's diplomatic status is quite so clear. "There have been some reports that the US tried to claim he was a diplomat after the events took place," Scahill says.

Conflicting crime stories
The events in question transpired on January 27. Davis was driving his car through a poor section of Lahore. He stopped at a crowded intersection. Two Pakistani men jumped off motorcycles and came towards him, with weapons drawn, according to American accounts of the incident. Davis opened fire with his Glock, killing them.

He said he fired in self-defence, assuming they were trying to rob him. Pakistani authorities disputed this claim, saying the men were shot in the back and Davis got out of his car to take photographs of the bodies.

Pakistani security forces chased Davis to a traffic circle a short distance away from the crime scene and arrested him. Before being taken down, Davis called the US Consulate to extract him from the dicey situation. The US sent an unmarked SUV tearing through the streets of Lahore.

It drove the wrong way down a one way street, killing a random motorcyclist, in a development that further infuriated Pakistanis. The three killings lead to widespread outrage, fuelling anti-American demonstrations.

"Those who oppose the partnership between Pakistan and the US have been making noise," says Rasul Baksh Raees, a political science professor at Lahore University of Management Sciences.

Wary of anger on the streets, Pakistan's government may have initially denied giving the contractor immunity to save face, says Muqtedar Khan, a professor of international relations at the University of Delaware.

Intrigue
Many Pakistanis, including the political opposition, are furious about US drone strikes and other killings in the country. But this is nothing new.
The intrigue concerns the identities of the men Davis killed - and the nature of his mission.

"Some suggest Davis was trying to document links between Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency (ISI) and Lashkar-e-Taiba [the Army of the Pure], which would expose the ISI's links to the Mumbai attacks [of 2008]," says Khan. The US and UN Security Council have designated Lashkar as an international terrorist organisation.

In February, Leon Panetta, the CIA director, said the ISI-CIA relationship is one of the "most complicated" he has encountered during his time in intelligence.
"If Ray Davis was targeting Laskhkar or trying to establish links between it and Pakistani intelligence, that would be probably one of the most sensitive places to hit the ISI," says Jeremy Scahill, the author and investigative journalist.

In a US federal court in New York, a lawsuit was filed in 2010 against the ISI for backing the Mumbai attacks. Davis's conclusions could have damaged more than the ISI's public image. US tax dollars paid to Pakistani security forces under the auspices of fighting terrorism, not to mention a major financial settlement, could be at stake.

Christine Fair, the Georgetown professor, says two high-level Pakistani officials told her that the men Davis killed were ISI agents tasked with following him.
Davis worked out of a safe house in an obscure part of Lahore as part of a CIA cell investigating Lashkar, Fair says.

"The CIA cooperates with the ISI on certain issues," Fair says. "But these organisations also operate against each other. This is spy versus spy."

The origins of Lashkar can be traced to US support for forces fighting against the Soviets in Afghanistan during the 1980s, Khan says. Today, the group operates openly in Pakistan from a sprawling compound in the suburbs of Lahore, where it runs schools, hospitals and a blood bank. Hafiz Saeed, the group's leader, is a frequent commentator in the Pakistani press.

The group frequently espouses anti-Western ideology, targeting India, Israel and the US in their literature, says professor Fair, adding that "they never really operated to achieve those larger objectives – perhaps until 2004, when they started attacking the US in Afghanistan".

The ISI and some other branches of Pakistan's government see Lashkar as an important tool against India in Kashmir, a province claimed by both India and Pakistan, says Muqtedar Khan.

"In recent years, the balance of power has shifted significantly in India's favour, in terms of traditional warfare," Khan says. "The economic disparity is such that Pakistan cannot launch a conventional war against India for Kashmir," he says. Pakistan sees unconventional forces like Lashkar as crucial defences against its traditional rival.

Pakistan also worries about Indian dominance in Afghanistan after the US pulls out, and wants Lashkar ready to fill the vacuum of American power, Khan says.

Money talks
Raymond Davis's case has caused head-aches for the US and Pakistan. They both hoped it would go-away, but neither could lose face.

The payment of "blood money" to relatives of the men Davis killed - an accepted custom in Pakistan - was the easiest solution.

The sum of $2.3mn is exponentially higher than what the US normally pays family members when its forces kill innocents in Iraq or Afghanistan, Jeremy Scahill says.

Money talks, and such a large sum illustrates the importance of the case. According to Scahill, the blood money suggested by the US state department for victims of Blackwater killings in Iraq was about $5,000.

"What is even more important than the money, is what the Pakistanis and the ISI extracted from the US in exchange for [Davis's] release," Scahill says.
After "blood money" was paid, American consular officials whisked Raymond Davis out of the country. His exact mission, or the conclusions from the intelligence he gathered, may never come to light.

Hillary Clinton, the US secretary of state, denied that the US paid family members. However, she wouldn't comment on who forked over the cash.
"It is rather a charade to suggest [the US] didn't pay family members," says Ray McGovern, a former CIA analyst, who alleged that the payment came from Pakistan's ISI, which receives money from the US through bilateral military cooperation deals.

But Davis's political footprint will last, as anti-American protests spread across Pakistan, with people demanding more accountability from foreign forces operating on Pakistani territory. "Raymond Davis was basically the tip of the iceberg," says Professor Khan.

"He was not the cause, but a part of, the diverging interests between Pakistan and the US in the war on terror."
 
Last edited:
M

mimran301

Guest
Re: Spy game: The CIA, Pakistan and 'blood money'

Welcome to 6th century Laws: we are laughing stock for whole world now. Few days back Americans were pushing Pakistan to alter cruel and not civilized law of Blasphemy and now they took their spy using another ancient law of our land. So now weep, cry and shout in anger on this humiliation; certainly we deserved this even we deserved more to come in near future, just wait and see. Bangladesh former part of Pakistan is much in peace after changing such laws. While we are sitting in the roller-coaster of disaster. We are messed in head, thats why Fanatic Killer Qadri is Popular in streets. Many new born are named After Qadri, can someone believe, it is happening in this age.
 

canadian

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Spying On Friends ???

Spying on friends Fakir S Ayazuddin
The establishment has realised that the biggest criminal is the establishment itself. Its actions are deliberate and aimed at increasing its own power network with no room for any dissidence. This establishment has no scruples, and no conscience. With no accountability, it is omnipotent

The Raymond Davis affair has been mismanaged by the Pakistani government and the military from the first day. The Americans have insisted all along that Davis did have immunity, and should not have been arrested at all, for any of the crimes listed by the government, Punjab or federal.

The biggest crime committed by Davis, for which there is no immunity, and which has rankled the people of Pakistan the most, is the act of espionage, committed on a friendly country.

And the person most responsible should be the chief of army staff (COAS), who is the ultimate authority. We have gone along with the corruption and crimes of the politicians assuming it to be the nature of the beast. But all the while we took comfort in believing that we could always rely on the army, who being super patriots would never ever indulge in any actions that could be remotely be construed as against Pakistani interests.

Recently, the breaking news on 50 odd channels simultaneously shattered our faith in the most revered of our institutions the army when it was revealed that they had been negotiating with the Americans in a clandestine and surreptitious and decidedly unpatriotic manner, also certainly not in Pakistans national interest.

In fact, our leading spymaster General Pasha, whose tenure has just been extended, has reportedly been involved in these murky dealings. In the not too distant past an officer would resign his commission rather than commit an act against his fellow compatriots. It appears that the downward drift in the discipline and moral standards applies to all aspects of Pakistani life, be it political, business or bureaucratic. The General Pashas of the army will have much to explain, if and when the questions are asked.

It is now understood by everyone concerned that the US government does not really care for the Pakistani people and has negotiated its own deal with the Pakistani government. There could be 500 more Davises unaccounted for and on the loose.

The only sane politician it seems is Imran Khan, but the establishment is determined not to let him anywhere near the reins of power. For the establishment has realised that the biggest criminal is the establishment itself. Its actions are deliberate and aimed at increasing its own power network with no room for any dissidence. This establishment has no scruples, and no conscience. With no accountability, it is omnipotent. It is this establishment that has been taken over by the Americans, without a whimper, and has led us into a disastrous war against an enemy not of our choice. The Americans are cribbing over how they have funded the war in Pakistan with money from their Congress. Our people want to know where the millions for the floods have disappeared through the hands of the governments handpicked by the Americans, while the people are desperately hungry. Telling the people that you elected them knowing well the high corruption coefficient of the leadership, also that this corruption coefficient was critically important in the American scheme, is not very helpful. Without this corruption fix, the American plan could not work. So the right people had to be brought in, and ensconced. Voila, you have a 500-man network established in Pakistan. As of now we have been assured that all 500 have the correct diplomatic documents. So there will be no shoddy paperwork, and Rehman Malik will have been suitably admonished. It is being slowly understood that there is no room for a change of heart, as poor Benazir realised at the cost of her life.

It is time for General Kayani to start shooting down the drones. The deaths due to the drones have ominously increased, and connecting the dots is a simple matter. What makes it complicated is the location of the sites stated to be still in Pakistan at Jacobabad. It is equally shocking that the very day Raymond Davis left Pakistans borders, a drone attacked Dattakhel, leaving more than 40 civilians dead.

The writer is a freelance columnist(http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2011\03\19\story_19-3-2011_pg3_6)
 

gazoomartian

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Re: Spy game: The CIA, Pakistan and 'blood money'

Welcome to 6th century Laws: we are laughing stock for whole world now. Few days back Americans were pushing Pakistan to alter cruel and not civilized law of Blasphemy and now they took their spy using another ancient law of our land. So now weep, cry and shout in anger on this humiliation; certainly we deserved this even we deserved more to come in near future, just wait and see. Bangladesh former part of Pakistan is much in peace after changing such laws. While we are sitting in the roller-coaster of disaster. We are messed in head, thats why Fanatic Killer Qadri is Popular in streets. Many new born are named After Qadri, can someone believe, it is happening in this age.

I never knew Bangladesh was at peace because of change in blasphemy laws. I am such a dumb man. I always thought they were at peace because they do not have strategic importance at all for the US in general and yahood in particular. Pakistan not only offer strategic importance to them but also offers opportunities of natural resources as oppose to Bangladesh, which the kafereen dont care much,

Pakistan is also strategically important because of hadith about ghuzwa-e-hind and eventual march of Muslim soldier to aid Isa (as) in war against yahood o nasara.

Lots of Muslims dont believe in this hadeeth but Jews and Christian sure do. Thats why they are trying to circumvent it.

Alas! They are fooling themselves. What Mohammad pbuh says becomes carved in stone - but little they the know---wa la killa yesh oroon
 

Raaz

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Re: Deal being questioned even by those who shouldn`t

'Blood-money' or compensation applies ONLY against UNINTENTIONAL, ACCIDENTAL murder.

4:92 It is not conceivable that a believer will slay another believer unless it be a mistake. If one kills a believer by mistake, there is the duty of freeing a believing person from bondage; may it be slavery, extreme poverty, crushing debt or oppression. And pay compensation to the victim's family unless they forgo it by way of charity. In case the victim was a believer, and belonged to a tribe who are at war with you, free a believing person from bondage. If the victim was a believer, and belonged to a tribe with whom you have a peace treaty, you should pay the compensation to his family in addition to freeing a believing person from bondage. For those who find this settlement beyond their means, two consecutive months of Abstinence, as in the month of Ramadhan, are ordained by way of repentance from God. And God is the Knower, the Wise.
4:93 Whoever slays a believer intentionally, his or her maximum punishment, considering the circumstances, is up to capital punishment (2:178, 5:32-33). His requital shall be Hell, therein to abide, and God will condemn him, and reject him and prepare for him awful suffering.

It is good to learn Quranic wisdom that blood money applies to unintentional accidental death only. Otherwise money inclines and every slayer can be set free if one is able to pay its price. But respect for money than respect for life deforms justice and society.

Where are the mufties?
U r right.... They sold Quran actually.... and Saudia is the dealer.....
 
M

mimran301

Guest
Re: Spy game: The CIA, Pakistan and 'blood money'

I never knew Bangladesh was at peace because of change in blasphemy laws. I am such a dumb man. I always thought they were at peace because they do not have strategic importance at all for the US in general and yahood in particular. Pakistan not only offer strategic importance to them but also offers opportunities of natural resources as oppose to Bangladesh, which the kafereen dont care much,

Pakistan is also strategically important because of hadith about ghuzwa-e-hind and eventual march of Muslim soldier to aid Isa (as) in war against yahood o nasara.

Lots of Muslims dont believe in this hadeeth but Jews and Christian sure do. Thats why they are trying to circumvent it.

Alas! They are fooling themselves. What Mohammad pbuh says becomes carved in stone - but little they the know---wa la killa yesh oroon

Count me one, who do not believe this Hadeeth. This Hadeeth is related to Hind (India), so Pakistan or Bangladesh do not need to worry about this matter. India will handle this, whenever it will come.If this hadeeth refer to ancient hind then it is India+Pakistan+ Bangladesh all these three countries you have to count.So If there would be any war, Indian Muslim will fight not us. What strategic depth are you talking about? We are in internal mess. Mullahs are dangerous for Pakistan than USA itself. Only salvation for Pakistan is in being secular state.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

canadian

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
The Davis deception
Ishtiaq Ali Mehkri (Debate)

19 March 2011
As politicians were busy rumbling over Raymond Davis, Lahore-based intellectual and critic Hassan Nisar, in a satirist tone, remarked on a television channel that money could undo all irritants between Pakistan and the United States.
He was prophetically right. But the shameful and hasty manner in which the whole episode of trial, error and tribulation has been wound up by the powers-that-be is unreflective of national concerns and their cherished values. No doubt, the Islamic provision of ‘diyat’ (blood money to the victims’ family) is well within rights, legitimate and lawful, but there should have been decency in opting to such a course of action. The proposition suggests that the victims’ family members were earlier made to ride the hype of seeking justice, and then subsequently forced to give in. The manner in which the trial of three unfortunate families of Lahore had been bundled and dumped must be more than enough to make a precedent of selling national interests for peanuts. Davis, the purported CIA official who would have in any case been granted diplomatic immunity in the long run, as per the conventions of international law, has come to rewrite the finer points of compromise in the realms of sovereignty and self-respect.
There are, nonetheless, questions that are in need of being answered as to why there are so many blanks in the drama choreographed for the under-trial diplomat’s backdoor release. The Foreign Office, the federal government and the provincial government of Punjab owe an explanation as to why the drop scene was so swift and splendid. If the testimony narrated at the door of the court on the fateful day (March 16, 2011) is to be believed, then it is not bureaucratically possible to ensure the exit of the ‘released’ US citizen, to fly out, then and there. After all, there are procedures that are supposed to be followed and taking into account the bad blood between the Punjab and the federal authorities, it is safe to say that the script was vetted behind the curtains and the court was just brought in the picture to seal the deed.
As far as the norms of justice are concerned, the compensation amount and the strategy to ensure security of the victims’ families are well placed. But what difference it would have made had Davis been there back in his embassy premises for a couple of more days and then expatriated back home? In this case, at least, the government would have showcased its diplomatic muscles and had politically made a strong point of resolving a conundrum in the ambit of law and justice. But this jumping the gun scene had damaged beyond control its reputation and raised questions on its writ in dealing with a country, which is already a hard nut to crack in its foreign policy.
What made many eyebrows raise and pitch the outcome in controversy is the fact that an American air force bee was in a taxi status as the verdict was being solicited! Then why did the Punjab administration file a proper indictment in the same court of law only a day before the ‘deal’ was done under its and federal emissaries supervision? Moreover, Davis was made to walk free from the confinements’ of the prison to the tarmac in duress, and that too with a battery of unknown persons on the aircraft off to Kabul. On the other hand, the family members of the murdered persons were sent into oblivion for reasons best known either to the Americans or the Pakistani authorities, denying them a brave face to put up before the society for the wholeheartedness and generosity they had shown towards the accused US citizen. As if this was not enough, the media reports that the honourable judge who released the accused and the public prosecutors have gone missing are quite disturbing. This shady outcome is unbecoming of the prestige and self-respect of the nation.
The rage on the streets of Pakistan is not without a reason. The people have every reason to question the discreet behind the arrest and escape of the stunt man. Neither do I creed to anti-Americanism nor to the concept of political jihad. Yet, I believe that this saga is bound to flare extremist sentiments. Such acts of deception, coupled with drone attacks, are enough of a nuisance to test the tolerance level of a nation that strongly believes in coexistence and cooperation. This self-serving tale of diplomacy is an antithesis of national interests. The Americans could have got back their man more gracefully had they pleaded the privilege of diplomatic immunity, along with the ‘diyat’ deed, humbly in the court of law. Hoodwinking the media and the nation would just backfire in the long run.
Ishtiaq Ali Mehkri is Khaleej Times Assistant Editor (Opinion). Write to him at [email protected]
 

mohib

Senator (1k+ posts)
A Pyrrhic victory

SO who lied? They all did. The federal government knew whether Davis had immunity or not, but it kept quiet. The Punjab government and police knew the two innocents killed were at least petty thieves and probably more, but Punjab hawked a different line.

The media had in its possession eyewitness accounts that appeared to corroborate Daviss defence, but quietly shelved the video testimonies. An orgy of self-righteous indignation is a made-for-television spectacle and is extremely profitable. The Americans knew our diplomat wasnt a diplomat immunity being a separate question but that was awkward, so they pretended otherwise. The American media was in on the secret, but dissembled.

And then there are the boys, our wannabe world dominators who would have us believe they didnt know about the activities of a handful of foreign spies in the countrys second-largest city. Pakistan isnt exactly a tourist Mecca. White men stand out.

You can easily figure out what the rest wanted. The media: ratings. The politicians: popularity, or avoiding further unpopularity. The Americans: their guy back, and avoiding a precedent that could be used against them in other trouble spots. The American media: future access.

But what did the boys want?

Through carefully planted leaks, we are told the ISI wanted the Americans to end their secret activities. No going behind our backs and doing stuff without informing us, the ISI has apparently told the Americans.

Wondering how it was possible for Americans to be conducting espionage in Lahore? Oh, it was Hussain Haqqani and those America-loving PPP guys who sold out the country for a few hundred visas.

Still wondering how it was possible for Americans with visas to be conducting espionage in Lahore? As in, so someone gave them a visa, does that mean the ISI allows every American with a visa to roam around and do what they like?

Never mind that, we are told, the important thing is weve got promises and concessions from the Americans.

And the concessions weve had to make? Yknow, like the ones which allowed dozens or even hundreds of Americans to run around the country in the first place?

Never mind, its all been sorted. Trust us.

The public has no choice in the matter. Whether we trust the ISI and its masters, army generals, or not, the one big black box in the country remains a big black box.

What goes in, what comes out, how are things processed inside the public knows nothing.

At least with the media and the politicians you can figure out stuff. Stupid American kills two boys in broad daylight in Lahore.

A third victim is run over by a rescue team. Media: yay, ratings! Politicians: oh, must avoid being on the wrong side of the public. Hang him!

But with the establishment? Youre left clutching at straws, triangulating between ever-shifting nodes.

Frankly, if it were just games between states, it wouldnt matter that much. Locked in a mutually suspicious and distrustful relationship, they will constantly seek to extract their pounds of flesh and bend the other to their will. Boys will be boys.

The problem: it isnt just a game between states.

Raymond Davis may have given the ISI an opportunity to push back against the CIA/US and our spies may well have got their way for now.

But if 10 years into an uneasy relationship, the boys over here still see fit to foment public unrest or to churn the political waters over every little disagreement with the US, at what point does the mess here become totally unmanageable?

Raymond Davis is gone. Whatever the PTI or JI are hoping for, the air has been let out of that episode. It wont count for much in terms of political mileage going forward.

But for six weeks this country was held hostage by a trigger-happy US contractor who probably wouldnt be able to get through the front door at Langley without special security clearance.

Surely, there ought to be better ways for the establishment to convey its unhappiness to the Americans?

Indignant pundits on TV are warning that terrorism and extremism may increase now that Davis has been set free. If they are right, its only because Davis was made into an issue of national honour. And you dont have to look very far to find who encouraged that characterisation in the first place.

Remember the Kerry-Lugar fiasco? One little statement from GHQ and on cue the political class, sections of the media and the public at large erupted.

What did that gain us? Not one term was changed, not one word. If it was all about assurances, surely the establishment could have used other channels to demand those. And if those assurances were violated, the ante could have been upped later.

But its the unthinking recourse to public pressure that seems to characterise the establishments responses. And they always appear to be responses, not part of some broader strategy.

In the Davis affair, the central concern for the Americans wasnt the response of the Pakistani public, it was to get their guy back.

So once we got their guy, we had bargaining power. Use it, quietly and efficiently.

And for those who think that killings in broad daylight in Lahore couldnt be dealt with quietly, then think about all the attacks against military installations and security agencies in the past few years What visa details or interrogation tapes or jail-cell conditions has the public learned of in any of those attacks?

Raymond Davis is gone. But the bitterness and hate and propaganda the episode spawned will linger on.

Kerry-Lugar, drone strikes, Aafia Siddiqi, Raymond Davis why cant the establishment here fight its battles with the US without making this place a little more dangerous, a little less stable each time?

http://www.dawn.com/2011/03/18/a-pyrrhic-victory-2.html
 

canadian

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Whose blood? Whose money?

Talat Farooq
Saturday, March 19, 2011



It is like a slap in the face, a personal affront, legality and religious endorsement of the act notwithstanding. Raymond Davis has finally been delivered into safety and freedom by the federal government, the provincial government, the security agencies and the judiciary. How united we stand when it comes to serving our masters overseas!

Who wanted Davis back? America. And who was the guarantor and the mediator? Saudi Arabia. How did Saudi Arabia achieve this American objective in Pakistan? By using the Islamic-leverage; a strategy that Saudi Arabia has effectively applied since the Afghan-Soviet War in the 1980s. They have used the religious bent of the people of Pakistan and their sentimental attachment to the Prophet to help the US attain its foreign policy goals in Pakistan.

Raymond Davis is not only the murderer of two individuals, he is involved in espionage against the state of Pakistan. What right then did the Saudis have to arrange Davis’ return? Who were they to pay the blood money on America’s behalf? The sad truth is that we as beggars cannot be choosers.

The political hypocrisy of both the US and Saudi Arabia has never been more apparent than it is today. It is reflected in their responses to the peoples’ uprisings in North Africa and the Middle East. It is manifested in their prompt intervention in Bahrain and their delaying tactics in stopping the hand of Qaddafi. The Saudi role whether in Pakistan or Bahrain, has demonstrated how its monarchy works hand in glove with the US.

The question is how then do our mullahs find the Saudis to be the great upholders of the ultimate truth? Why are the Jamaat-e-Islami and the rest of the bearded lot only condemning America? Is the Saudi obsequiousness any different from Tony Blair’s catering to the fancies of George Bush?

The Taliban that have become the bane of our lives were manufactured by the military and mullahs with Saudi riyals. Why then do we consider them our benefactors? How is Saudi intervention in our internal matters any different from America’s violation of our sovereignty? The Saudis are as much responsible for what has become of Pakistan today as America and Pakistan’s security agencies. Saudi riyals have bought Pakistani vested interests with as much ease as US dollars.

The US and Saudi Arabia are not the only ones who stand exposed. More importantly, it is Pakistan. The politicians, the judiciary and the military establishment are all party to this drama. Raymond Davis, the murderer of innocent Pakistanis has left the country; America, the mass murderer of innocent people all over the world, has struck Waziristan with a vengeance.

Prime Minister Gilani tells us that the drone attacks were ‘irresponsible’ and the government has protested to the US. And the bases from where the drones flew, where were they, Gilani Saheb? In India? Afghanistan? America?

If there were any doubts about the nature of power politics in Pakistan, the Raymond Davis drama has dispelled them. The politicians whether from the ruling party or the opposition will always be remembered as cowards of the highest order. The representatives of the judiciary will be remembered as unjust, the military as inadequate, and the mullahs as hypocritical.

They are all working according to their respective agendas. The politicians want to loot and plunder while the iron is hot. The judiciary wants to rock the boat but not to the point of drowning itself. The military wants to protect its self-created monsters in North Waziristan and Punjab; the mullahs want to use religion to attain power and blame America but not Saudi Arabia. They all have their own axes to grind.

No-one gives a toss about the people of Pakistan. They do not matter; their integrity is a joke, their dignity for sale. They are treated like commodities, used and discarded. They are a mild irritant in the way of the high and mighty and their desires. They are insects that the elite don’t even notice when they crush them under their shoes. They once dared to dream of an independent country where they would live with dignity. They once believed that Jinnah’s Pakistan will be better than Nehru’s India. Today they are crushed, abused, broken and humiliated. Their blood is being spilled every day in the streets of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

But no one will ever ask for their forgiveness; no one will ever offer to pay their blood money in order to win freedom. They are nobodies, redundant, superfluous, and dispensable. They will remain uncounted, faceless and nameless for their life is not a matter of national interest for America or Saudi Arabia or Pakistan.

So let us then bow our heads and weep for the dreams that could not materialise. Let us bow our heads and weep for the self-respect lost along the way and for being betrayed by those we trusted with our lives and dreams; the ones we trusted with the future of our children. Let us weep for lost hopes and broken dreams. Above all, let us weep for never having the courage to stand up to the usurpers, the exploiters and the oppressors. Let us weep because our dreams were important to us but not that important.



The writer is a PhD student at Leicester, UK. Email: [email protected]
 

Saladin A

Minister (2k+ posts)
How much money paid into foreign bank accounts of the politicians who helped to free Raymind Davis?

A new drama is being played and dirty filthy lies being said by this corrupt PPP government and its politicians to justify and disguise its worthlessness and uselessness in face of the double-triple murderer, Raymond Davis, of innocent Pakistanis and set free under the very noses and most certainly approval of the most corrupt government of Pakistan. The fact of the matter is that Raymond Davis was a CIA agent and a leading terrorist operating and instructing subversive activities against the state of Pakistan and its innocent people with the help of imported foreign terrorists and local rented suicide bombers. He is now probably staying in a 5 Star hotel in Kabul and instructing Drone attacks on Pakistani territory with greater ferocity and accuracy.

Pakistani government of the most corrupt President Asif Zardari is the only faceless, toothless and shameless country in the world that allows USA to violate its air space by sending Drones and killing innocent people and destroying their homes. Over thirty four thousands innocent Pakistanis have so far been killed by CIA, RAW and Mossad sponsored a terrorism and Raymond Davis one the senior CIA agents recruiting, funding and arming local and foreign terrorists to leash violence, death and destruction in Pakistan.

 

hassam

MPA (400+ posts)
میری تمام بھائیوں اور بہنوں سے التماس ہے کے اس کمینے "یو ایس اسٹیٹ ڈیپارٹمینٹ" کے حرام خور ٹٹو "فواد لعنتی" کی ہر پوسٹ کو "تھمبس ڈاون" کریں اور اسکو یہیں اسی فورم پر "لال بٹن" دبا کر امریکا سے ہماری نفرت کا اندازہ لگوائیں !

Yar Classified tumhari yeh batein mujhay badi achee lagtee hain. I love you for that.
 

gazoomartian

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Re: Spy game: The CIA, Pakistan and 'blood money'

Count me one, who do not believe this Hadeeth. This Hadeeth is related to Hind (India), so Pakistan or Bangladesh do not need to worry about this matter. India will handle this, whenever it will come.If this hadeeth refer to ancient hind then it is India+Pakistan+ Bangladesh all these three countries you have to count.So If there would be any war, Indian Muslim will fight not us. What strategic depth are you talking about? We are in internal mess. Mullahs are dangerous for Pakistan than USA itself. Only salvation for Pakistan is in being secular state.

You have properly documented as a non-believer of this hadeeth about ghuzwa-e-hind (and perhaps all Ahadeeth), hence you have proven to be a secular, ethiest, and non-believer. let the record show in the book of your angels on the right shoulder that you are a non-Muslim. Now this angel can go on vacation permanently.


" Only salvation for Pakistan is in being secular state "

No no no you got all wrong. The only salvation is in getting back to our religion and Islamic systems. YES being a secular country will prevent or avoid the wrath of yahood - o - nasara but will earn the wrath of Allah and his Rasool pbuh, it will be like :
' Herbim-min-allah-i wa rasulehi ' (war against Allah and his Messenger)

The hadeeth about ghuzwa-e-hind can not be interpreted as a war 'within' India by Muslims. If you truly believe that you are most ignorant person in the history. Muslims in India are not able to raise a stick, much less a gun. It has to be some country outside of India and Pakistan is the only country that fits the criteria. If you do not believe in Rasul pbuh and his prophecies, thats your prorogative, but I do and million others do. I wish that ghuzwa happened in my life time but alas! I am not that luck to have served along with the afzal-ush-shu-hadaa .

in conclusion I have two thing to say to you:

wan-tazeroo inni ma'akum muntazereen

war taqebu inni ma'akum raqeeb

You dont need to reply, because you wont get reply back.

Salam
 

gazoomartian

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Re: Spy game: The CIA, Pakistan and 'blood money'

Count me one, who do not believe this Hadeeth. This Hadeeth is related to Hind (India), so Pakistan or Bangladesh do not need to worry about this matter. India will handle this, whenever it will come.If this hadeeth refer to ancient hind then it is India+Pakistan+ Bangladesh all these three countries you have to count.So If there would be any war, Indian Muslim will fight not us. What strategic depth are you talking about? We are in internal mess. Mullahs are dangerous for Pakistan than USA itself. Only salvation for Pakistan is in being secular state.

You have been properly documented as a non-believer of this hadeeth about ghuzwa-e-hind (and perhaps all Ahadeeth), hence you have proven to be a secular, ethiest, and non-believer. let the record show in the book of your angels on the right shoulder that you are a non-Muslim. Now this angel can go on vacation permanently.


" Only salvation for Pakistan is in being secular state "

No no no you got all wrong. The only salvation is in getting back to our religion and Islamic systems. YES being a secular country will prevent or avoid the wrath of yahood - o - nasara but will earn the wrath of Allah and his Rasool pbuh, it will be like :
' Herbim-min-allah-i wa rasulehi ' (war against Allah and his Messenger)

The hadeeth about ghuzwa-e-hind can not be interpreted as a war 'within' India by Muslims. If you truly believe that you are most ignorant person in the history. Muslims in India are not able to raise a stick, much less a gun. It has to be some country outside of India and Pakistan is the only country that fits the criteria. If you do not believe in Rasul pbuh and his prophecies, thats your prorogative, but I do and million others do. I wish that ghuzwa happened in my life time but alas! I am not that luck to have served along with the afzal-ush-shu-hadaa .

in conclusion I have two thing to say to you:

wan-tazeroo inni ma'akum muntazereen

war taqebu inni ma'akum raqeeb

You dont need to reply, because you wont get reply back.

Salam
 

Pakistani1947

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: How much money paid into foreign bank accounts of the politicians who helped to free Raymind Davis?

Payment of few Crore Rupees to the family is just a show up.

Definitely Zadari and Shareef brothers and judges must have been paid millions of Dollars.
 

mrbaig

Senator (1k+ posts)
Re: Spy game: The CIA, Pakistan and 'blood money'

Welcome to 6th century Laws: we are laughing stock for whole world now. Few days back Americans were pushing Pakistan to alter cruel and not civilized law of Blasphemy and now they took their spy using another ancient law of our land. So now weep, cry and shout in anger on this humiliation; certainly we deserved this even we deserved more to come in near future, just wait and see. Bangladesh former part of Pakistan is much in peace after changing such laws. While we are sitting in the roller-coaster of disaster. We are messed in head, thats why Fanatic Killer Qadri is Popular in streets. Many new born are named After Qadri, can someone believe, it is happening in this age.
Well Said...........(clap)
 

mrbaig

Senator (1k+ posts)
Re: Spy game: The CIA, Pakistan and 'blood money'

Count me one, who do not believe this Hadeeth. This Hadeeth is related to Hind (India), so Pakistan or Bangladesh do not need to worry about this matter. India will handle this, whenever it will come.If this hadeeth refer to ancient hind then it is India+Pakistan+ Bangladesh all these three countries you have to count.So If there would be any war, Indian Muslim will fight not us. What strategic depth are you talking about? We are in internal mess. Mullahs are dangerous for Pakistan than USA itself. Only salvation for Pakistan is in being secular state.

Agreed 1000 times agreed.Pakistan can survive as a secular state,otherwise Islamists will spoil and finish it.
 

Back
Top