Armys one-day spending equivalent to one-year education ministry budget

[saint]

The common man is least bothered what the Army buys but he is getting bothered that they buy it with 30% share of the GDP which leaves education, health and basic utilities to be under funded as I have already pointed out.

In dire economic conditions everyone looks at their major expenditures and the justification for that expenditure. Our major expenditure is our Military so we need to scrutinize it with a fine comb so that we dont dole out free cash to them.

You link every problem we have to the 20% share that the civilians are left with to run the nation of 180 million people but you seem to have no problem with the 30% that ends up on only 600,000 people serving in the Army. I see that as a very big concern.

I am talking about the 70% we got ... use it wisely .. find ways to expand it .. you are misguiding people, because you are merely talking about 10% only and that also may be ... I hope you are not talking about no defense at all to save all the 30%

I guarantee you cut army budget it would n't change a bit in current scenario ... it would vanish the same way 70% is getting vanished.
care to share which country in recent times in the region cut army spendings .. ? either people thinking like you got it totally wrong or rest of the world has gone insane. btw, 30% you are talking about is not serving 600,000 it is serving the whole nation .. they don't buy F16's and go shopping on it .. we all should refrain painting "WE" vs "THEM" kind of picture

I am surprised by the short sightedness of so called liberals, they are keep opposing army but not realizing army is the only one saving them from talibans/extreme right wing. If army got out of the way there would be bloodbath of liberals across the country

I am all in favor of accountability of all wrong doings but you conveniently keep ignoring the basic and main question who is gonna do it?
corrupt yelling the others corrupt is merely a JOKE

 

[awan4ever]

I am talking about the 70% we got ... use it wisely .. find ways to expand it .. you are misguiding people, because you are merely talking about 10% only and that also may be ... I hope you are not talking about no defense at all to save all the 30%

I guarantee you cut army budget it would n't change a bit in current scenario ... it would vanish the same way 70% is getting vanished.
care to share which country in recent times in the region cut army spendings .. ? either people thinking like you got it totally wrong or rest of the world has gone insane. btw, 30% you are talking about is not serving 600,000 it is serving the whole nation .. they don't buy F16's and go shopping on it .. we all should refrain painting "WE" vs "THEM" kind of picture

I am surprised by the short sightedness of so called liberals, they are keep opposing army but not realizing army is the only one saving them from talibans/extreme right wing. If army got out of the way there would be bloodbath of liberals across the country

I am all in favor of accountability of all wrong doings but you conveniently keep ignoring the basic and main question who is gonna do it?
corrupt yelling the others corrupt is merely a JOKE

First of all 70%?
I think I broke it down earlier.
50% goes to debt servicing.
30% to Army.
What does that leave us with?? 70%?

It is a we vs. them picture from now on because we need to wrestle back control of the country from the failing mess that is the Army.
They dont buy F16s to go shopping in it but they do build multistory CSDs which gives them subsidized everything from clothing to food to cars and bikes. Anyway I already mentioned that you should read Military Inc. and see how deeply the Army is involved in minting money.

The short sightedness of liberals is of surprise to you but the failing 'depth of vision' of the Armys 'best laid plans' to gain control of Kashmir and strategic depth in Afghanistan is invisible to your keen vision?
The Taliban/extremists ARE A PRODUCT of the policies of the Army incase you forgot. So you might want to thank them from 'saving' us from them but i blame them for producing them in the first place!!!

As for who is going to do accountability, well the first step in that direction has already been taken. The Army is no longer in a position to stage coups. That is a step in the right direction and has happened after people realized that the Army is not fit for ruling the country.
This in itself is a big step and will soon lead to empowering of the peoples representatives through the assembly. If the people can reign in the Generals they can definitely reign in the corrupt politicians. It is a slow process but it should be given chance.

 

[saint]

First of all 70%?
I think I broke it down earlier.
50% goes to debt servicing.
30% to Army.
What does that leave us with?? 70%?

It is a we vs. them picture from now on because we need to wrestle back control of the country from the failing mess that is the Army.
They dont buy F16s to go shopping in it but they do build multistory CSDs which gives them subsidized everything from clothing to food to cars and bikes. Anyway I already mentioned that you should read Military Inc. and see how deeply the Army is involved in minting money.

The short sightedness of liberals is of surprise to you but the failing 'depth of vision' of the Armys 'best laid plans' to gain control of Kashmir and strategic depth in Afghanistan is invisible to your keen vision?
The Taliban/extremists ARE A PRODUCT of the policies of the Army incase you forgot. So you might want to thank them from 'saving' us from them but i blame them for producing them in the first place!!!

As for who is going to do accountability, well the first step in that direction has already been taken. The Army is no longer in a position to stage coups. That is a step in the right direction and has happened after people realized that the Army is not fit for ruling the country.
This in itself is a big step and will soon lead to empowering of the peoples representatives through the assembly. If the people can reign in the Generals they can definitely reign in the corrupt politicians. It is a slow process but it should be given chance.

First of all 70%

If 50% going to debt servicing then govenment got to think about it right ? if govt thinks it is too much then they got to change their old hound ways and start paying taxes. They got to stop being lazy bum and stop slapping indeirect taxes on people ... try to increase tax net rather than blaming here and there

Well, if you think it is "WE" vs "THEM", it's your call .. I don't find them to be people from pluto, they are very much part of the same society we live in. Most of them we have studied with, played cricket with and shared all the sorrows and happiness with. They are still the sons,daughters and brothers of the elders we call uncle and aunts ... go ahead create one more crack in society

If we are not able to keep our utility stores afloat or make "sasti roti" work we should accept it rather than crafting a phony arguments and acting jealous .. that's too bad of you :-)

First step you talk about is the one I have been pointing out from last two days. Since we have already taken the first step we should try to stay put on the same course. According to that system, responsibility to select/appoint the COAS lies with the president and if he does n't perform or we don't agree with policies then blames, complaints all should be registered to our dear parliament and president. If they are not able to exert control over army then they got to leave they are not fit for the job .. it is our resonsibility to make a room for new people who can do the job better.

Now about wrestling control from army .. the day you managed to wrestle control from a milk man and he stopped mixing water in milk .. let me know I will join you .. before trying to fly F16, learn to ride bicycle

My hunch: If politicians won't plan a coup on men in uniform, they would n't plan coup on them

 

[awan4ever]

If 50% going to debt servicing then govenment got to think about it right ? if govt thinks it is too much then they got to change their old hound ways and start paying taxes. They got to stop being lazy bum and stop slapping indeirect taxes on people ... try to increase tax net rather than blaming here and there

Where do you think the money for buying and servicing the Army comes from? Since you are so against the we against them mantra then remember that the loans we took were not for civilian spending alone.

Well, if you think it is "WE" vs "THEM", it's your call .. I don't find them to be people from pluto, they are very much part of the same society we live in. Most of them we have studied with, played cricket with and shared all the sorrows and happiness with. They are still the sons,daughters and brothers of the elders we call uncle and aunts ... go ahead create one more crack in society

We the civilians are the weak party here. They are the oppressors. WE need to stand up to them. Im not going to go the emotional filmi way here and in dulge in the uncles and cricket and sorrows and happiness thing. The reality on ground is that the Army has directly ruled this land for over half the time and indirectly wielded power the rest of the time. So I blame them first for most of the ills of our society and then I blame the politicians.

If we are not able to keep our utility stores afloat or make "sasti roti" work we should accept it rather than crafting a phony arguments and acting jealous .. that's too bad of you :-)

It is not about running things efficiently alone. I was pointing out the subsidies that they get. I hope you know how subsidies work. I dont need to be jealous. I work in the oil business and make enough cash on my own without having to ask for subsidies from the awam.

If they are not able to exert control over army then they got to leave they are not fit for the job .. it is our resonsibility to make a room for new people who can do the job better.

I agree they should quit if they cant do the job but if you are suggesting that they be replaced by the Army because apparently the generals do a better job then i think we should stop our discussion right here. Theres no point talking further.

Now about wrestling control from army .. the day you managed to wrestle control from a milk man and he stopped mixing water in milk .. let me know I will join you .. before trying to fly F16, learn to ride bicycle

I cant tell for sure from the above comment if you feel happy and proud that we are unable to control a wayward institution for which we pay through our noses, but if you do feel delighted about that then I only have pity for you.

My hunch: If politicians won't plan a coup on men in uniform, they would n't plan coup on them

What is a politicians coup on the Army? Please define.
Also tell us which politician plotted a 'coup' against the following:
1-Ayub Khan
2-Yahya Khan
3-Zia-ul-Haq
4-Pervez Musharraf (The PM was within his legal rights to sack the COAS. The COAS is subservient to the PM. Its all bullsh*t, the story about the plane hijacking etc. )

 

[saint]

Where do you think the money for buying and servicing the Army comes from? Since you are so against the we against them mantra then remember that the loans we took were not for civilian spending alone.



We the civilians are the weak party here. They are the oppressors. WE need to stand up to them. Im not going to go the emotional filmi way here and in dulge in the uncles and cricket and sorrows and happiness thing. The reality on ground is that the Army has directly ruled this land for over half the time and indirectly wielded power the rest of the time. So I blame them first for most of the ills of our society and then I blame the politicians.



It is not about running things efficiently alone. I was pointing out the subsidies that they get. I hope you know how subsidies work. I dont need to be jealous. I work in the oil business and make enough cash on my own without having to ask for subsidies from the awam.



I agree they should quit if they cant do the job but if you are suggesting that they be replaced by the Army because apparently the generals do a better job then i think we should stop our discussion right here. Theres no point talking further.



I cant tell for sure from the above comment if you feel happy and proud that we are unable to control a wayward institution for which we pay through our noses, but if you do feel delighted about that then I only have pity for you.



What is a politicians coup on the Army? Please define.
Also tell us which politician plotted a 'coup' against the following:
1-Ayub Khan
2-Yahya Khan
3-Zia-ul-Haq
4-Pervez Musharraf (The PM was within his legal rights to sack the COAS. The COAS is subservient to the PM. Its all bullsh*t, the story about the plane hijacking etc. )

We are getting in to loop .. it is not positive discussion any more rather has turned into an argument. I am out of it

 

[Muhammad Ilyas Khan]

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