ConcernedPakistani
MPA (400+ posts)
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXRlBLXhtHU[/video]
An Indian speaking about "Untouchables" MUST WATCH
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ConcernedPakistani
MPA (400+ posts)
MohanDas Gandhi's Quotes about ''Untouchables''
Here is a compilation of Gandhi's quotes about the 'untouchables' collected and compiled by Vivek Nirala,
''HOW DANGEROUS GANDHIS THOUGHTS WAS & IS:
HERE ARE GANDHIS OWN WORDS:
Gandhi Quotes:
If the Shudras (low castes) leave their ancestral profession and take up others, ambition will rouse in them and their peace of mind will be spoiled. Even their family peace will be disturbed. (Hind Swaraj).
I believe in Varnashrama (caste system) which is the law of life.
The law of Varna (color and/or caste) is
nothing but the law of conservation of energy. Why should my son not be scavenger if I am one? (Harijan,3-6-1947).
He (Shudra, low caste) may not be called a Brahmin (uppermost caste), though he (Shudra) may have all
the qualities of a Brahmin in this birth. And it is a good thing for him (Shudra) not to arrogate a Varna (caste) to which he is not born. It is a sign of true humility. (Young India, 11-24-1927).
According to Hindu belief, he who practices a profession which does not belong to him by birth, does violence to himself and becomes a degraded being by not living up to the Varna (caste) of his birth. (Young India, 11-14-1927).
As years go by, the conviction is daily growing upon me that Varna (caste) is the law of mans being, and
therefore, caste is necessary for Christians and Muslims as it has been necessary for Hinduism, and has been its saving grace. (Speech at Trivandrum, (Collection of Speeches), Ramanath Suman (1932)).
I would resist with my life the separation of Untouchables from the caste Hindus. The problems of the Untouchable community are of comparatively little importance. (London Round Table Conference 1931)
I call myself a Snatana man, one who firmly believes in the caste system. (Dharma Manthan, p 4).
I believe in caste division determined by birth and the very root of caste division lies in birth. (Varna
Vyavastha, p 76-77).
The four castes and the four stages of life are things to be attained by birth alone. (Dharma Manthan, p 5).
Caste means the predetermination of a mans profession. Caste implies that a man must practice only the profession of his ancestors for his livelihood. (Varna Vyavstha, p 28, 56, 68).
Shudra only serves the higher castes as a matter of religious duty and who will never own any property. The gods will shower down flowers on him. (Varna Vyavastha, p 15).
I have noticed that the very basis of our thought have been severely shaken by Western civilization which is the creation of the Satan. (Dharma Manthan, p 65).
How is it possible that the Antyaja (outcastes) should have the right to enter all the existing temples? As long as the law of caste and karma has the chief place in the Hindu religion, to say that every Hindu can enter every temple is a thing that is not possible today. (Gandhi Sikshan, Vol. 11, p 132).
There are I am sorry to say, many Hindu temples in our midst in this country, which are no better than
brothels. The caste system cant be said to be bad because it does not allow inter-dining and inter-marriages in different castes. (Gandhi by Shiru, p129).
The caste system, in my opinion, has a scientific basis. Reason does not revolt against it. It has
disadvantages. Caste creates a social and moral restraint - I can find no reason for their abolition.
To abolish caste is to demolish Hinduism. There is nothing to fight against the Varnasharma (caste system). I dont believe the caste system to be an odious and vicious dogma. It has its limitations and defects, but there is nothing sinful about it. (Harijan, 1933).
Nations are tired of the worship of lifeless machines multiplied ad infinitum. We are destroying the matchless living machines viz., our own bodies by leaving them to rust and trying to substitute lifeless machinery for them. It is a law of God that the body must be fully worked and utilised. We dare not ignore it. The spinning wheel is the auspicious symbol of Sharir Yajna body labour. He who eats his food without offering this sacrifice steals it. By giving up this sacrifice we became traitors to the country, and banged the door in the
face of the Goddess of Fortune. (Gandhis presidential address at the Kathiawad Political Conference held on 8th January 1925).
The booklet is a severe condemnation of modern civilisation. It was written in 1908. My conviction is deeper today than ever. I feel that, if India would discard Modern civilisation she can only gain by doing so. (Mr. Gandhis booklet on Hind Swaraj (Indian Home Rule), 1921)
Gandhis quotes from his own mouth.
collected and compiled by Vivek Nirala.
Here is a compilation of Gandhi's quotes about the 'untouchables' collected and compiled by Vivek Nirala,
''HOW DANGEROUS GANDHIS THOUGHTS WAS & IS:
HERE ARE GANDHIS OWN WORDS:
Gandhi Quotes:
If the Shudras (low castes) leave their ancestral profession and take up others, ambition will rouse in them and their peace of mind will be spoiled. Even their family peace will be disturbed. (Hind Swaraj).
I believe in Varnashrama (caste system) which is the law of life.
The law of Varna (color and/or caste) is
nothing but the law of conservation of energy. Why should my son not be scavenger if I am one? (Harijan,3-6-1947).
He (Shudra, low caste) may not be called a Brahmin (uppermost caste), though he (Shudra) may have all
the qualities of a Brahmin in this birth. And it is a good thing for him (Shudra) not to arrogate a Varna (caste) to which he is not born. It is a sign of true humility. (Young India, 11-24-1927).
According to Hindu belief, he who practices a profession which does not belong to him by birth, does violence to himself and becomes a degraded being by not living up to the Varna (caste) of his birth. (Young India, 11-14-1927).
As years go by, the conviction is daily growing upon me that Varna (caste) is the law of mans being, and
therefore, caste is necessary for Christians and Muslims as it has been necessary for Hinduism, and has been its saving grace. (Speech at Trivandrum, (Collection of Speeches), Ramanath Suman (1932)).
I would resist with my life the separation of Untouchables from the caste Hindus. The problems of the Untouchable community are of comparatively little importance. (London Round Table Conference 1931)
I call myself a Snatana man, one who firmly believes in the caste system. (Dharma Manthan, p 4).
I believe in caste division determined by birth and the very root of caste division lies in birth. (Varna
Vyavastha, p 76-77).
The four castes and the four stages of life are things to be attained by birth alone. (Dharma Manthan, p 5).
Caste means the predetermination of a mans profession. Caste implies that a man must practice only the profession of his ancestors for his livelihood. (Varna Vyavstha, p 28, 56, 68).
Shudra only serves the higher castes as a matter of religious duty and who will never own any property. The gods will shower down flowers on him. (Varna Vyavastha, p 15).
I have noticed that the very basis of our thought have been severely shaken by Western civilization which is the creation of the Satan. (Dharma Manthan, p 65).
How is it possible that the Antyaja (outcastes) should have the right to enter all the existing temples? As long as the law of caste and karma has the chief place in the Hindu religion, to say that every Hindu can enter every temple is a thing that is not possible today. (Gandhi Sikshan, Vol. 11, p 132).
There are I am sorry to say, many Hindu temples in our midst in this country, which are no better than
brothels. The caste system cant be said to be bad because it does not allow inter-dining and inter-marriages in different castes. (Gandhi by Shiru, p129).
The caste system, in my opinion, has a scientific basis. Reason does not revolt against it. It has
disadvantages. Caste creates a social and moral restraint - I can find no reason for their abolition.
To abolish caste is to demolish Hinduism. There is nothing to fight against the Varnasharma (caste system). I dont believe the caste system to be an odious and vicious dogma. It has its limitations and defects, but there is nothing sinful about it. (Harijan, 1933).
Nations are tired of the worship of lifeless machines multiplied ad infinitum. We are destroying the matchless living machines viz., our own bodies by leaving them to rust and trying to substitute lifeless machinery for them. It is a law of God that the body must be fully worked and utilised. We dare not ignore it. The spinning wheel is the auspicious symbol of Sharir Yajna body labour. He who eats his food without offering this sacrifice steals it. By giving up this sacrifice we became traitors to the country, and banged the door in the
face of the Goddess of Fortune. (Gandhis presidential address at the Kathiawad Political Conference held on 8th January 1925).
The booklet is a severe condemnation of modern civilisation. It was written in 1908. My conviction is deeper today than ever. I feel that, if India would discard Modern civilisation she can only gain by doing so. (Mr. Gandhis booklet on Hind Swaraj (Indian Home Rule), 1921)
Gandhis quotes from his own mouth.
collected and compiled by Vivek Nirala.
ConcernedPakistani
MPA (400+ posts)
Feelings of Dalits about Gandhi MUST READ
Here is an article by Dr. Murugu Dorai about Gandhi and what the Dalits think about him,
Gandhi & Dalits
Dr Murugu Dorai
HATRED IS A NEGATIVE FEELING FINDING NO PLACE IN A GOOD HEART.
SO WE WOULD RATHER ASK
COULD DALITS EVER LOVE GANDHI OR REGARD HIM AS A FRIEND OF OR A PERSON OF GOODWILL TOWARDS
Our feelings of love or dislike must be based upon historical facts. Every one knows that Gandhi was up against racial discrimination in South Africa before coming to India.
1. Gandhi entered Indian politics in 1919 and soon captured the congress. He made congress a mass organization and launched a Constructive Programme of social amelioration known as Bardoli Programme, in 1922 ; to finance this programme he started a fund of one crore and 30 lakhs of rupees, known as "Tilak Swaraj Fund" out of which a sum of 49 1/2 lakhs was allotted to Bardoli Programme which included uplift of the untouchables also. The congress proposed to start a separate fund of 5 lakhs and then reduced it to 2 lakhs for the amelioration of the untouchables. Only two lakhs for 60 million Untouchables! Yet, only 43,381 rupees were actually spent! Seeing that the congress was not really sincerely interested in this programme Swami Shradhanand sanyasi resigned from the subcommittee which, not convened even once, was dissolved and then this task was handed over to Hindu Mahasabha which had the least interest in this programme of uplifting the untouchables. Thus the congress washed away their hands from this program.
Ref:
DR BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR WRITINGS AND SPEECHES
Vol 9. What Congress and Gandhi have done to the Untouchables. ps 17- 39
Dr MURUGU DORAI, "Ambethkar kaappiyam", Epic (Tamil) of Dr Babasaheb Ambedkar's Biography, Part 2, ps 221-222.
SEEING THIS, COULD THE DALITS EVER PROFESS LOVE FOR GANDHI OR REGARD HIM AS A MAN OF SINCERE GOODWILL TOWARDS DALITS?
2. "WAR WITH GANDHI" of Dhananjay Keer's Biography of Dr Babasaheb describes their first meeting at Mani Bhavan on 14.8.1931 and how Gandhi developed the animosity towards Dr Babasaheb. Later he opposed Dr. Babasaheb's stand at the 2nd RTC.
At the 2nd RTC Gandhi claimed that he was the only person qualified to represent and speak on behalf the untouchables, claiming that he had lived with them, & shared their joys and sorrows with them. He refused to acknowledge Dr Babasaheb as the true representative of the untouchables.
He said that the welfare of the untouchables was dearer to him than his own life! He said "I will not bargain away their rights for the kingdom of the whole world.". But he agreed to give the Muslims, Sikhs and Christians separate electorates but other than ordinary right to adult franchise he vehemently refused to give any other special privileges such as separate electorate to the Depressed Classes. He secretly agreed to give the Muslims all their 14 demands; in return he wanted them to oppose Dr Babasaheb's demands at the 2nd RTC. When finally they could not arrive at a decision as regards the minority problem, they submitted a memorandum to accept the British Prime Minister's decision and Gandhi also signed it. But later when the PM gave his decision, Gandhi refused to accept it and went on fast unto death!
Ref:
Dr BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR WRITINGS AND SPEECHES Vol. 2 Ps 600 -672.
Dr MURUGU DORAI, "Ambethkar kaappiyam", Epic (Tamil) of Dr Babasaheb Ambedkar's Biography, Part 2, pages 236-237.
COULD THE DALITS LOVE OR REGARD SUCH A GANDHI AS THEIR FRIEND OR WELL WISHER?
3 When Gandhi returned to Bombay on 28.12 1931,eight thousand untouchables, males and females at 2.30 in the shivering cold of early morning demonstrated with black flags against Gandhi at the Mole Station!
Ref. Dhananjay Keer, DR AMBEDKAR Life And Mission. Ps 191-192
Ref. Ref. Dr MURUGU DORAI, "Ambethkar kaappiyam", Epic (in Tamil) of Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar's Biography, Part 2, pages 244-246.
COULD ANY DALIT TODAY PROFESS LOVE FOR THAT GANDHI?
4. After returning to Bombay, the only thought that fully occupied Gandhi's mind was how to prevent the Untouchables from getting from the British what Dr Babasaheb had demanded. He voluntarily wrote to the then India Minister Sir Samuel Hoare on 11.3.1932,. He wrote "I respectfully inform His Majesty's Government that in the event of their decision creating separate electorate for the Depressed Classes, I must fast unto death" Sir Samuel Hoare replied that "we intend to give any decision that may be necessary solely and only upon the merits of the case."
The Communal award was announced on 17.8.1932 Gandhi wrote to the PM saying "I have to resist your decision with my life. The only way I can do so is by declaring a perpetual fast unto death from food of any kind save water with or without salt and soda..."
The PM replied on 8.9.1932 explaining the Govt's duty to "safeguard what we believed to be the right of the Depressed Classes to a fair proportion of representation in the legislatures.. the Govt's decision stands and that only agreement of the communities themselves can substitute other electoral arrangements..."; Finally PM urged, "ask yourself seriously the question whether it really justifies you in taking the action you contemplate"
Yet Gandhi ignored the fact that as a signatory to the memorandum, he should accept whatever decision the PM had taken , and went on fast unto death!
Ref.
Dr BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR WRITINGS AND SPEECHES
Vol 9.What Congress and Gandhi have done to the Untouchables. ps 77 -87.
Dr MURUGU DORAI, "Ambethkar kaappiyam", Epic (Tamil) of Dr Babasaheb Ambedkar's Biography, Part 2, pages 270-284.
COULD ANY DALIT FEEL THAT GANDHI WAS A FRIEND OR A WELL WISHER OF DALITS?
5. Gandhi started his fast on 20.9.1932. Dr Babasaheb issued a statement on the 19th instant. Every Dalit must read those 6 pages of statement issued to the press. What would have happened to the then 60 million Dalits, if anything had happened to Gandhi's life? Dr Babasaheb said "whether he knows it or not, the Mahatmas' act will result in nothing but terrorism by his followers against the Depressed Classes all over the country.... If Mr Gandhi coolly reflects on the consequences of his act, I very much doubt whether he will find this victory worth having....the Mahatma is releasing reactionary and uncontrollable forces, and is fostering the spirit of hatred between the Hindu community and the Depressed Classes.." Dr Babasaheb ended his statement thus: "I am prepared to consider the proposals of the Mahatma. I however trust the Mahatma will not drive me to the necessity of making a choice between his life and the rights of my people. For I can never consent to deliver my people bound hand and foot to the Caste Hindus for generations to come."
To save Gandhi from sure death, a conference of Hindu leaders was held at the hall of the Indian Merchants in Bombay on 19.9.1932 under the president ship of Pandid Madan Mohan Malaviya. Dr Babasaheb Ambedkar said there, "..secure Gandhi's alternative proposal... But one thing is decided. To save Gandhi's life I would not be a party to any proposals that would be against the interests of my people"
The next day, when Dr Babasaheb was told that Gandhi had no personal objection to the reservation of seats for the Depressed Classes, he told the conference "It has fallen to my lot to be the villain of the piece. But I tell you I shall not deter from my pious duty, and betray the just and legitimate interest of my people even if you hang me on the nearest lamp-post in the street.."
63 years old Gandhi was without food for three days, lying on the white color painted iron cot under the mango tree, at the Yeravda Prison, his body very weak, and his voice sinking low to muttering. The question of duration of primary election and referendum to decide the duration of reserved seats was hanging undecided. Dr Babasaheb insisted that the question of reserved seats should be settled by referendum of the Depressed Classes at end of 25 years. But Gandhi said with a tone of finality "Five years or my life!"
Later it was decided to make the agreement without the condition of referendum. Thus the Poona pact was signed. What Dr Babasaheb Ambedkar felt at that moment?
Dr Babasaheb says " No man was placed in a greater and graver dilemma than I was then. It was a baffling situation. I had to make a choice between two different alternatives. There was before me the duty, which I owed as a part of common humanity, to save Gandhi from sure death. There was before me the problem of saving for the Untouchables the political rights which the Prime Minister had given them. I responded to the call of humanity and saved the life of Mr Gandhi by agreeing to alter the Communal Award in a manner satisfactory to Mr Gandhi"
Gandhi wanted only 5 years to decide whether to extend or not to extend the period of reserved seats! Could un-touchability or social slavery of untouchables be eradicated in five years? Now after 75 years the reservation needs still to be continued.
But Gandhi threatened "Five years or my life!" Are these the words of a Mahatma? a friend of the Dalits?
Ref.
DHANANJAY KEER, AMBEDKAR LIFE AND MISSION ps 204- 216.
DR BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR WRITINGS AND SPEECHES
Vol 9.What Congress and Gandhi have done to the Untouchables. ps 311-317, 88.
Vol 5. 'GANDHI AND HIS FAST' p 341 MS GORE ' THE Social Contextb of an Ideology' AMBEDKAR'S POLITICAL
AND SOCIAL THOUGHT, p 136 W.N. KUBER. 'BUILDERS OF MODERN INDIA' B.R. AMBEDKAR ps 41-42
Dr MURUGU DORAI, "Ambethkar Kaappiyam", Epic (Tamil) of Dr Babasaheb Ambedkar's Biography, Part 2, ps 292-335.
COULD ANY DALIT EVER REGARD GANDHI AS A FRIEND OF THE DALITS?
Furthermore, here is a compilation of Gandhi's quotes about the 'untouchables' collected and compiled by Vivek Nirala,
''HOW DANGEROUS GANDHIS THOUGHTS WAS & IS:
HERE ARE GANDHIS OWN WORDS:
Gandhi Quotes:
If the Shudras (low castes) leave their ancestral profession and take up others, ambition will rouse in them and their peace of mind will be spoiled. Even their family peace will be disturbed. (Hind Swaraj).
I believe in Varnashrama (caste system) which is the law of life.
The law of Varna (color and/or caste) is
nothing but the law of conservation of energy. Why should my son not be scavenger if I am one? (Harijan,3-6-1947).
He (Shudra, low caste) may not be called a Brahmin (uppermost caste), though he (Shudra) may have all
the qualities of a Brahmin in this birth. And it is a good thing for him (Shudra) not to arrogate a Varna (caste) to which he is not born. It is a sign of true humility. (Young India, 11-24-1927).
According to Hindu belief, he who practices a profession which does not belong to him by birth, does violence to himself and becomes a degraded being by not living up to the Varna (caste) of his birth. (Young India, 11-14-1927).
As years go by, the conviction is daily growing upon me that Varna (caste) is the law of mans being, and
therefore, caste is necessary for Christians and Muslims as it has been necessary for Hinduism, and has been its saving grace. (Speech at Trivandrum, (Collection of Speeches), Ramanath Suman (1932)).
I would resist with my life the separation of Untouchables from the caste Hindus. The problems of the Untouchable community are of comparatively little importance. (London Round Table Conference 1931)
I call myself a Snatana man, one who firmly believes in the caste system. (Dharma Manthan, p 4).
I believe in caste division determined by birth and the very root of caste division lies in birth. (Varna
Vyavastha, p 76-77).
The four castes and the four stages of life are things to be attained by birth alone. (Dharma Manthan, p 5).
Caste means the predetermination of a mans profession. Caste implies that a man must practice only the profession of his ancestors for his livelihood. (Varna Vyavstha, p 28, 56, 68).
Shudra only serves the higher castes as a matter of religious duty and who will never own any property. The gods will shower down flowers on him. (Varna Vyavastha, p 15).
I have noticed that the very basis of our thought have been severely shaken by Western civilization which is the creation of the Satan. (Dharma Manthan, p 65).
How is it possible that the Antyaja (outcastes) should have the right to enter all the existing temples? As long as the law of caste and karma has the chief place in the Hindu religion, to say that every Hindu can enter every temple is a thing that is not possible today. (Gandhi Sikshan, Vol. 11, p 132).
There are I am sorry to say, many Hindu temples in our midst in this country, which are no better than
brothels. The caste system cant be said to be bad because it does not allow inter-dining and inter-marriages in different castes. (Gandhi by Shiru, p129).
The caste system, in my opinion, has a scientific basis. Reason does not revolt against it. It has
disadvantages. Caste creates a social and moral restraint - I can find no reason for their abolition.
To abolish caste is to demolish Hinduism. There is nothing to fight against the Varnasharma (caste system). I dont believe the caste system to be an odious and vicious dogma. It has its limitations and defects, but there is nothing sinful about it. (Harijan, 1933).
Nations are tired of the worship of lifeless machines multiplied ad infinitum. We are destroying the matchless living machines viz., our own bodies by leaving them to rust and trying to substitute lifeless machinery for them. It is a law of God that the body must be fully worked and utilised. We dare not ignore it. The spinning wheel is the auspicious symbol of Sharir Yajna body labour. He who eats his food without offering this sacrifice steals it. By giving up this sacrifice we became traitors to the country, and banged the door in the
face of the Goddess of Fortune. (Gandhis presidential address at the Kathiawad Political Conference held on 8th January 1925).
The booklet is a severe condemnation of modern civilisation. It was written in 1908. My conviction is deeper today than ever. I feel that, if India would discard Modern civilisation she can only gain by doing so. (Mr. Gandhis booklet on Hind Swaraj (Indian Home Rule), 1921)
Gandhis quotes from his own mouth.
collected and compiled by Vivek Nirala.
Contributed by -- Dr.Saint, USA''
Here is an article by Dr. Murugu Dorai about Gandhi and what the Dalits think about him,
Gandhi & Dalits
Dr Murugu Dorai
HATRED IS A NEGATIVE FEELING FINDING NO PLACE IN A GOOD HEART.
SO WE WOULD RATHER ASK
COULD DALITS EVER LOVE GANDHI OR REGARD HIM AS A FRIEND OF OR A PERSON OF GOODWILL TOWARDS
Our feelings of love or dislike must be based upon historical facts. Every one knows that Gandhi was up against racial discrimination in South Africa before coming to India.
1. Gandhi entered Indian politics in 1919 and soon captured the congress. He made congress a mass organization and launched a Constructive Programme of social amelioration known as Bardoli Programme, in 1922 ; to finance this programme he started a fund of one crore and 30 lakhs of rupees, known as "Tilak Swaraj Fund" out of which a sum of 49 1/2 lakhs was allotted to Bardoli Programme which included uplift of the untouchables also. The congress proposed to start a separate fund of 5 lakhs and then reduced it to 2 lakhs for the amelioration of the untouchables. Only two lakhs for 60 million Untouchables! Yet, only 43,381 rupees were actually spent! Seeing that the congress was not really sincerely interested in this programme Swami Shradhanand sanyasi resigned from the subcommittee which, not convened even once, was dissolved and then this task was handed over to Hindu Mahasabha which had the least interest in this programme of uplifting the untouchables. Thus the congress washed away their hands from this program.
Ref:
DR BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR WRITINGS AND SPEECHES
Vol 9. What Congress and Gandhi have done to the Untouchables. ps 17- 39
Dr MURUGU DORAI, "Ambethkar kaappiyam", Epic (Tamil) of Dr Babasaheb Ambedkar's Biography, Part 2, ps 221-222.
SEEING THIS, COULD THE DALITS EVER PROFESS LOVE FOR GANDHI OR REGARD HIM AS A MAN OF SINCERE GOODWILL TOWARDS DALITS?
2. "WAR WITH GANDHI" of Dhananjay Keer's Biography of Dr Babasaheb describes their first meeting at Mani Bhavan on 14.8.1931 and how Gandhi developed the animosity towards Dr Babasaheb. Later he opposed Dr. Babasaheb's stand at the 2nd RTC.
At the 2nd RTC Gandhi claimed that he was the only person qualified to represent and speak on behalf the untouchables, claiming that he had lived with them, & shared their joys and sorrows with them. He refused to acknowledge Dr Babasaheb as the true representative of the untouchables.
He said that the welfare of the untouchables was dearer to him than his own life! He said "I will not bargain away their rights for the kingdom of the whole world.". But he agreed to give the Muslims, Sikhs and Christians separate electorates but other than ordinary right to adult franchise he vehemently refused to give any other special privileges such as separate electorate to the Depressed Classes. He secretly agreed to give the Muslims all their 14 demands; in return he wanted them to oppose Dr Babasaheb's demands at the 2nd RTC. When finally they could not arrive at a decision as regards the minority problem, they submitted a memorandum to accept the British Prime Minister's decision and Gandhi also signed it. But later when the PM gave his decision, Gandhi refused to accept it and went on fast unto death!
Ref:
Dr BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR WRITINGS AND SPEECHES Vol. 2 Ps 600 -672.
Dr MURUGU DORAI, "Ambethkar kaappiyam", Epic (Tamil) of Dr Babasaheb Ambedkar's Biography, Part 2, pages 236-237.
COULD THE DALITS LOVE OR REGARD SUCH A GANDHI AS THEIR FRIEND OR WELL WISHER?
3 When Gandhi returned to Bombay on 28.12 1931,eight thousand untouchables, males and females at 2.30 in the shivering cold of early morning demonstrated with black flags against Gandhi at the Mole Station!
Ref. Dhananjay Keer, DR AMBEDKAR Life And Mission. Ps 191-192
Ref. Ref. Dr MURUGU DORAI, "Ambethkar kaappiyam", Epic (in Tamil) of Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar's Biography, Part 2, pages 244-246.
COULD ANY DALIT TODAY PROFESS LOVE FOR THAT GANDHI?
4. After returning to Bombay, the only thought that fully occupied Gandhi's mind was how to prevent the Untouchables from getting from the British what Dr Babasaheb had demanded. He voluntarily wrote to the then India Minister Sir Samuel Hoare on 11.3.1932,. He wrote "I respectfully inform His Majesty's Government that in the event of their decision creating separate electorate for the Depressed Classes, I must fast unto death" Sir Samuel Hoare replied that "we intend to give any decision that may be necessary solely and only upon the merits of the case."
The Communal award was announced on 17.8.1932 Gandhi wrote to the PM saying "I have to resist your decision with my life. The only way I can do so is by declaring a perpetual fast unto death from food of any kind save water with or without salt and soda..."
The PM replied on 8.9.1932 explaining the Govt's duty to "safeguard what we believed to be the right of the Depressed Classes to a fair proportion of representation in the legislatures.. the Govt's decision stands and that only agreement of the communities themselves can substitute other electoral arrangements..."; Finally PM urged, "ask yourself seriously the question whether it really justifies you in taking the action you contemplate"
Yet Gandhi ignored the fact that as a signatory to the memorandum, he should accept whatever decision the PM had taken , and went on fast unto death!
Ref.
Dr BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR WRITINGS AND SPEECHES
Vol 9.What Congress and Gandhi have done to the Untouchables. ps 77 -87.
Dr MURUGU DORAI, "Ambethkar kaappiyam", Epic (Tamil) of Dr Babasaheb Ambedkar's Biography, Part 2, pages 270-284.
COULD ANY DALIT FEEL THAT GANDHI WAS A FRIEND OR A WELL WISHER OF DALITS?
5. Gandhi started his fast on 20.9.1932. Dr Babasaheb issued a statement on the 19th instant. Every Dalit must read those 6 pages of statement issued to the press. What would have happened to the then 60 million Dalits, if anything had happened to Gandhi's life? Dr Babasaheb said "whether he knows it or not, the Mahatmas' act will result in nothing but terrorism by his followers against the Depressed Classes all over the country.... If Mr Gandhi coolly reflects on the consequences of his act, I very much doubt whether he will find this victory worth having....the Mahatma is releasing reactionary and uncontrollable forces, and is fostering the spirit of hatred between the Hindu community and the Depressed Classes.." Dr Babasaheb ended his statement thus: "I am prepared to consider the proposals of the Mahatma. I however trust the Mahatma will not drive me to the necessity of making a choice between his life and the rights of my people. For I can never consent to deliver my people bound hand and foot to the Caste Hindus for generations to come."
To save Gandhi from sure death, a conference of Hindu leaders was held at the hall of the Indian Merchants in Bombay on 19.9.1932 under the president ship of Pandid Madan Mohan Malaviya. Dr Babasaheb Ambedkar said there, "..secure Gandhi's alternative proposal... But one thing is decided. To save Gandhi's life I would not be a party to any proposals that would be against the interests of my people"
The next day, when Dr Babasaheb was told that Gandhi had no personal objection to the reservation of seats for the Depressed Classes, he told the conference "It has fallen to my lot to be the villain of the piece. But I tell you I shall not deter from my pious duty, and betray the just and legitimate interest of my people even if you hang me on the nearest lamp-post in the street.."
63 years old Gandhi was without food for three days, lying on the white color painted iron cot under the mango tree, at the Yeravda Prison, his body very weak, and his voice sinking low to muttering. The question of duration of primary election and referendum to decide the duration of reserved seats was hanging undecided. Dr Babasaheb insisted that the question of reserved seats should be settled by referendum of the Depressed Classes at end of 25 years. But Gandhi said with a tone of finality "Five years or my life!"
Later it was decided to make the agreement without the condition of referendum. Thus the Poona pact was signed. What Dr Babasaheb Ambedkar felt at that moment?
Dr Babasaheb says " No man was placed in a greater and graver dilemma than I was then. It was a baffling situation. I had to make a choice between two different alternatives. There was before me the duty, which I owed as a part of common humanity, to save Gandhi from sure death. There was before me the problem of saving for the Untouchables the political rights which the Prime Minister had given them. I responded to the call of humanity and saved the life of Mr Gandhi by agreeing to alter the Communal Award in a manner satisfactory to Mr Gandhi"
Gandhi wanted only 5 years to decide whether to extend or not to extend the period of reserved seats! Could un-touchability or social slavery of untouchables be eradicated in five years? Now after 75 years the reservation needs still to be continued.
But Gandhi threatened "Five years or my life!" Are these the words of a Mahatma? a friend of the Dalits?
Ref.
DHANANJAY KEER, AMBEDKAR LIFE AND MISSION ps 204- 216.
DR BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR WRITINGS AND SPEECHES
Vol 9.What Congress and Gandhi have done to the Untouchables. ps 311-317, 88.
Vol 5. 'GANDHI AND HIS FAST' p 341 MS GORE ' THE Social Contextb of an Ideology' AMBEDKAR'S POLITICAL
AND SOCIAL THOUGHT, p 136 W.N. KUBER. 'BUILDERS OF MODERN INDIA' B.R. AMBEDKAR ps 41-42
Dr MURUGU DORAI, "Ambethkar Kaappiyam", Epic (Tamil) of Dr Babasaheb Ambedkar's Biography, Part 2, ps 292-335.
COULD ANY DALIT EVER REGARD GANDHI AS A FRIEND OF THE DALITS?
Furthermore, here is a compilation of Gandhi's quotes about the 'untouchables' collected and compiled by Vivek Nirala,
''HOW DANGEROUS GANDHIS THOUGHTS WAS & IS:
HERE ARE GANDHIS OWN WORDS:
Gandhi Quotes:
If the Shudras (low castes) leave their ancestral profession and take up others, ambition will rouse in them and their peace of mind will be spoiled. Even their family peace will be disturbed. (Hind Swaraj).
I believe in Varnashrama (caste system) which is the law of life.
The law of Varna (color and/or caste) is
nothing but the law of conservation of energy. Why should my son not be scavenger if I am one? (Harijan,3-6-1947).
He (Shudra, low caste) may not be called a Brahmin (uppermost caste), though he (Shudra) may have all
the qualities of a Brahmin in this birth. And it is a good thing for him (Shudra) not to arrogate a Varna (caste) to which he is not born. It is a sign of true humility. (Young India, 11-24-1927).
According to Hindu belief, he who practices a profession which does not belong to him by birth, does violence to himself and becomes a degraded being by not living up to the Varna (caste) of his birth. (Young India, 11-14-1927).
As years go by, the conviction is daily growing upon me that Varna (caste) is the law of mans being, and
therefore, caste is necessary for Christians and Muslims as it has been necessary for Hinduism, and has been its saving grace. (Speech at Trivandrum, (Collection of Speeches), Ramanath Suman (1932)).
I would resist with my life the separation of Untouchables from the caste Hindus. The problems of the Untouchable community are of comparatively little importance. (London Round Table Conference 1931)
I call myself a Snatana man, one who firmly believes in the caste system. (Dharma Manthan, p 4).
I believe in caste division determined by birth and the very root of caste division lies in birth. (Varna
Vyavastha, p 76-77).
The four castes and the four stages of life are things to be attained by birth alone. (Dharma Manthan, p 5).
Caste means the predetermination of a mans profession. Caste implies that a man must practice only the profession of his ancestors for his livelihood. (Varna Vyavstha, p 28, 56, 68).
Shudra only serves the higher castes as a matter of religious duty and who will never own any property. The gods will shower down flowers on him. (Varna Vyavastha, p 15).
I have noticed that the very basis of our thought have been severely shaken by Western civilization which is the creation of the Satan. (Dharma Manthan, p 65).
How is it possible that the Antyaja (outcastes) should have the right to enter all the existing temples? As long as the law of caste and karma has the chief place in the Hindu religion, to say that every Hindu can enter every temple is a thing that is not possible today. (Gandhi Sikshan, Vol. 11, p 132).
There are I am sorry to say, many Hindu temples in our midst in this country, which are no better than
brothels. The caste system cant be said to be bad because it does not allow inter-dining and inter-marriages in different castes. (Gandhi by Shiru, p129).
The caste system, in my opinion, has a scientific basis. Reason does not revolt against it. It has
disadvantages. Caste creates a social and moral restraint - I can find no reason for their abolition.
To abolish caste is to demolish Hinduism. There is nothing to fight against the Varnasharma (caste system). I dont believe the caste system to be an odious and vicious dogma. It has its limitations and defects, but there is nothing sinful about it. (Harijan, 1933).
Nations are tired of the worship of lifeless machines multiplied ad infinitum. We are destroying the matchless living machines viz., our own bodies by leaving them to rust and trying to substitute lifeless machinery for them. It is a law of God that the body must be fully worked and utilised. We dare not ignore it. The spinning wheel is the auspicious symbol of Sharir Yajna body labour. He who eats his food without offering this sacrifice steals it. By giving up this sacrifice we became traitors to the country, and banged the door in the
face of the Goddess of Fortune. (Gandhis presidential address at the Kathiawad Political Conference held on 8th January 1925).
The booklet is a severe condemnation of modern civilisation. It was written in 1908. My conviction is deeper today than ever. I feel that, if India would discard Modern civilisation she can only gain by doing so. (Mr. Gandhis booklet on Hind Swaraj (Indian Home Rule), 1921)
Gandhis quotes from his own mouth.
collected and compiled by Vivek Nirala.
Contributed by -- Dr.Saint, USA''
ConcernedPakistani
MPA (400+ posts)
The ''Untouchables''.
What a concept.
Hindu mentality
Wake up Pakistanis
What a concept.
Hindu mentality
Wake up Pakistanis
Nepali Pandit
MPA (400+ posts)
I love Einsteins quote about this great man, "Generations to come, it may be, will scarcely believe that such a one as this ever in flesh and blood walked upon this earth."
So, tell me should I believe what you say regarding GANDHI or should i listen to Einstein?
Albert Einstein on Gandhi:
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH5kNcAxtKs[/video]
So, tell me should I believe what you say regarding GANDHI or should i listen to Einstein?
Albert Einstein on Gandhi:
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH5kNcAxtKs[/video]
Nepali Pandit
MPA (400+ posts)
Should I listen to some Pakistani or should I listen to President of USA:
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpDoYBpUn_o[/video]
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpDoYBpUn_o[/video]
shaheedchoudry
Minister (2k+ posts)
I READ THESE QUOTES ABOVE. THESE CAN NOT BE OF MAHATMA GANDHI I KNOW.
Nepali Pandit
MPA (400+ posts)
Finally, Gandhi was a political leader. He lived in different time. By no means he was perfect. I have also got certain reservations in some of his saying. Many people in India do not like some of the things he said or did. But whole world agrees (except some uneducated or hateful Pakistanis) that he was a world leader. A symbol of peace and love. We are honored to have Indian like that. We are honored to call him a HINDU. He is long dead, there are thousands of books been written about him all around the world. He is long dead, so he can't defend himself. I urge you not to waste your pea size brain to judge some one you absolutely cannot comprehend.
By the way you quote lots of things regarding HINDUS, INDIANS etc. Can you also provide us the link.
By the way you quote lots of things regarding HINDUS, INDIANS etc. Can you also provide us the link.
taul
Siasat.pk - Blogger
@ pandit
------You can bless everyone but guess your founding father and your ideal seem to have betrayed you in all of this :( in all your claims of love being shown to all he stood opposite and infact you have read all his love shown,he seemed to have hated all dalits :roll: Now you will even deny all his quotes in a mere anguish and would stand defiant in the face of most obvious :|..after all you can NOT defy hinduism altogether :roll:
------You can bless everyone but guess your founding father and your ideal seem to have betrayed you in all of this :( in all your claims of love being shown to all he stood opposite and infact you have read all his love shown,he seemed to have hated all dalits :roll: Now you will even deny all his quotes in a mere anguish and would stand defiant in the face of most obvious :|..after all you can NOT defy hinduism altogether :roll:
ConcernedPakistani
MPA (400+ posts)
Mr. Pandit all the links and dates are given with the quotes of your leader
