Science, Arts, Belief, Right & Wrong...

[Vitamin_C]

It requires scientific proof just like any other claim in physics/cosmology. It can be measured, verified independently and yields the same result regardless of who is testing the evidence. Also there should be a condition which if satisfied, disproves the claim. Meaning it should be falsifiable.

It wasn't a loaded question or in the mood to preach just wondering what would be evidence enough for you, as each person has his/her own definition.

 

[Prince of Dhump]

Your mixing things up.

Atheism is simply rejection of a belief in something. You are also an Atheist for almost all Gods out there except one.

Atheism doesn't talk about alternatives to God. I can see that it is hard for you to grasp the idea of rejection of a belief, but I am failing to put it in words for you to understand.

For example if I came to you and said I got an A on my math exam, you say that I don't believe you. Your disbelief doesn't mean that you are saying I didn't get an A (At this point you do not know what I got since I haven't showed you the report card or evidence). The truth is that we do not know where the Universe came from, whether it was a God or not. Saying I disbelieve in it or I don't know is a valid answer to this question.

Morality is a different topic.

Pakistanis have a hard time grasping the idea that you can separate morality from the idea of God. We are taught since childhood is that we do good things or bad things because its what Quran teaches us. This is far from the truth, there is a basic evolutionary morality even in animals as it ensures their survival as a species.

There are wild tribes in Amazon rainforest know as the Piraha people, they have no concept of religion or god. Even they have their own sense of morality and look after their elderly and sick. There are documentaries on this tribe on youtube.

Point is morality doesn't come from religion or God. It comes from people getting together and discussing rules that are best for everyones well being and progress as society. As well as some natural morality, such that if someone acts in a selfish way, he will be ostracized from society diminishing his chances of breeding and continuing his genes. This was the case in hunter gatherer societies. We have a natural instinct to protect children, take care of our family and tribe.

atheism is not a disbelief in anything and everything..ur making it sound like science

i dont know how ur generalizing to anything and everything..
im sure u must be aware of 'a' for negation..for example pathy is denoting feeling..if u put 'a' before it that is apathy which means lack of feeling (insensitivity)

similarly theism is belief in god/gods, particularly in Creator
and atheism is the reverse of it.

im not an atheist of other gods..u cannot call me atheist..ill stay theist as long i believe in Creator be it one or many..

As fas as morality is concerned i do understand that atheism and morality can be disconnected but not today..as long as Humans=Animals..atheism and morality is connected..
u gave just one example of Piraha..i can give tons of others who to survive need to devour others..

and if i as a human starts being selfish..im sure i can further my genes quite fast

 

[Prince of Dhump]

It requires scientific proof just like any other claim in physics/cosmology. It can be measured, verified independently and yields the same result regardless of who is testing the evidence. Also there should be a condition which if satisfied, disproves the claim. Meaning it should be falsifiable.

so u want to bring the Creator to a labortory ? one hell of a Creator He must be

 

[Vitamin_C]

Ok two questions for you.

What is your position on existance Lord Krishna and Ganesh?

Tell me any cannibalistic society that was secular?

atheism is not a disbelief in anything and everything..ur making it sound like science

i dont know how ur generalizing to anything and everything..
im sure u must be aware of 'a' for negation..for example pathy is denoting feeling..if u put 'a' before it that is apathy which means lack of feeling (insensitivity)

similarly theism is belief in god/gods, particularly in Creator
and atheism is the reverse of it.

im not an atheist of other gods..u cannot call me atheist..ill stay theist as long i believe in Creator be it one or many..

As fas as morality is concerned i do understand that atheism and morality can be disconnected but not today..as long as Humans=Animals..atheism and morality is connected..
u gave just one example of Piraha..i can give tons of others who to survive need to devour others..

and if i as a human starts being selfish..im sure i can further my genes quite fast

 

[Iconoclast]

he does have a point ?
for example richard dawkins put himself at 7 on a scale of 1 to 9 with 9 being complete disbelief..
nonetheless they do act like a follower of some nazi cult

I beg to differ, he's got no point just the urge to defend a defeated stance. If someone does not believe in the existence of God based on signs and the word of god, that means he's rejecting the existence of God itself. Simple. That's what an atheist is.
As for Dawkins he probably mellowed down after the recent chastisement he received.
You want me to believe in dark matter by telling me "The matter we see in the universe isn't enough to have a strong enough gravitational pull to keep the galaxies clustered, that's the sign of dark matter." Half of the things an atheist bases his rejection of god on science are mere theories with caveats. In order for a person to be either an atheist or otherwise. He has to arrive at that conclusion based on his understanding and ability of cogent deduction. You can't be an atheist and in search of God at the same time. That'd kill the very essence of atheism. Yes, some do look for a meaning to their lives and may turn to religion.
It brings us to Religion, that's simple, for any book to claim it's the word of God, it must pass the test of time. He mentioned muslims changing the Quranic translations in order to make it compatible with modern science. I asked him to give me an example and he slid past it.

It's impossible to prove the existence of God using science. It's equally impossible to disprove it even those some of these atheists would like to think so. And if nothing short of scientific proofs will cut it for you, you're basically rejecting the existence of God.
He doesn't have a point, he's merely going round and round in circles jumping from one thing to another parroting what's he's been programmed with.

 

[Prince of Dhump]

Ok two questions for you.

What is your position on existance Lord Krishna and Ganesh?

Tell me any cannibalistic society that was secular?

u completely circumvented my post ?
i really dont know what does these question has todo with my post..

nonetheless i dont believe in Krishna and Ganesh..but that does not make me an athiest if that is what u want me to tell u bcz i still am a theist as i believe..

and what does have a cannibalistic society has todo with this discussion

 

[Prince of Dhump]

I beg to differ, he's got no point just the urge to defend a defeated stance. If someone does not believe in the existence of God based on signs and the word of god, that means he's rejecting the existence of God itself. Simple. That's what an atheist is.
As for Dawkins he probably mellowed down after the recent chastisement he received.
You want me to believe in dark matter by telling me "The matter we see in the universe isn't enough to have a strong enough gravitational pull to keep the galaxies clustered, that's the sign of dark matter." Half of the things an atheist bases his rejection of god on science are mere theories with caveats. In order for a person to be either an atheist or otherwise. He has to arrive at that conclusion based on his understanding and ability of cogent deduction. You can't be an atheist and in search of God at the same time. That'd kill the very essence of atheism. Yes, some do look for a meaning to their lives and may turn to religion.
It brings us to Religion, that's simple, for any book to claim it's the word of God, it must pass the test of time. He mentioned muslims changing the Quranic translations in order to make it compatible with modern science. I asked him to give me an example and he slid past it.

It's impossible to prove the existence of God using science. It's equally impossible to disprove it even those some of these atheists would like to think so. And if nothing short of scientific proofs will cut it for you, you're basically rejecting the existence of God.
He doesn't have a point, he's merely going round and round in circles jumping from one thing to another parroting what's he's been programmed with.

i just felt the same ?

sometimes atheists give funny logics
i forget his name but quite a famous atheist once said in a discussion that to explain the intelligent design..some intelligent being sprung out of existence..put the process in order to kick start this intelligent design and then vanished..
i think he was dawkins when he was talking about the beautiful design inside DNA

 

[Vitamin_C]

Not the creator himself but the evidence

so u want to bring the Creator to a labortory ? one hell of a Creator He must be

 

[Citizen X]

It requires scientific proof just like any other claim in physics/cosmology. It can be measured, verified independently and yields the same result regardless of who is testing the evidence. Also there should be a condition which if satisfied, disproves the claim. Meaning it should be falsifiable.

Thats pretty lame, you are not doing a scientific experiment. I don't think you can prove a dog's existence with that let alone "god" or you are not testing lab rats. I guess you haven't really thought about it. Plus I don't think this would fall in the physics/cosmology department,

 

[Vitamin_C]

You said that you are not atheistic about any god but you lied.

Second you said that you can name mane societies that eat each other, name me one secular human civilization that did that.

u completely circumvented my post ?
i really dont know what does these question has todo with my post..

nonetheless i dont believe in Krishna and Ganesh..but that does not make me an athiest if that is what u want me to tell u bcz i still am a theist as i believe..

and what does have a cannibalistic society has todo with this discussion

 

[Vitamin_C]

Its pretty standard. You can study the fur of a dog in a lab and conclude it is infact a dog and not a bear no matter which lab you test it in.

If someone created the entire universe, the evidenxe for this should be everywhere and yet there is none?

Thats pretty lame, you are not doing a scientific experiment. I don't think you can prove a dog's existence with that let alone "god" or you are not testing lab rats. I guess you haven't really thought about it. Plus I don't think this would fall in the physics/cosmology department,

 

[Vitamin_C]

Its a pitty that Pakistan schools dont teach us how to think business what to think. We can laugh at other people all we want because of our ignorance but we will remain a low class nation of superstitious and unintelligent people while rest of the world progresses.

i just felt the same ?

sometimes atheists give funny logics
i forget his name but quite a famous atheist once said in a discussion that to explain the intelligent design..some intelligent being sprung out of existence..put the process in order to kick start this intelligent design and then vanished..
i think he was dawkins when he was talking about the beautiful design inside DNA

 

[Prince of Dhump]

Not the creator himself but the evidence

again ur missing the point..
the kind of evidence that u want for His existence will definitely bring Him to a laboratory..

u believe in atoms,electron,proton..or better example dark matter bcz it surfaces in mathematical equations right..
the evidence of Creator that u want will definitely want him to surface in an equation which will eventually bring him to laboratory and then ill have my personal clone of Him ?

The Creator should be above all this..otherwise we need to find another

 

[Prince of Dhump]

You said that you are not atheistic about any god but you lied.

Second you said that you can name mane societies that eat each other, name me one secular human civilization that did that.

if ur incomprehension of basic english makes me a lier then so be it ? but ill advise u to take up some english course

where did i say that i can name society..im seriously now thinking about ur english comprehension skills..ur mixing things up
u talked about Piraha who takes care of their elder thats why we human take care elders..u mean to tell us that taking care is there in evolutionary process..to which i replied that devouring others is also there in evolutionary process..should we start devouring each other

 

[Prince of Dhump]

You said that you are not atheistic about any god but you lied.

Second you said that you can name mane societies that eat each other, name me one secular human civilization that did that.

again theist means believer in one god or many
atheist means non believer of all gods..

u cant use the word atheist like a verb..im not atheisticing Krishna or Ganesh..im simply not believing in them

 

[Iconoclast]

i just felt the same ?

sometimes atheists give funny logics
i forget his name but quite a famous atheist once said in a discussion that to explain the intelligent design..some intelligent being sprung out of existence..put the process in order to kick start this intelligent design and then vanished..
i think he was dawkins when he was talking about the beautiful design inside DNA

I don't read dawkins. Tools bore me and perhaps it's down to my introversion and my lack of interest in human beans and the sciences about them.
And certainly did We create man from an extract of clay.
Then We placed him as a sperm-drop in a firm lodging.
Then We made the sperm-drop into a clinging clot, and We made the clot into a lump [of flesh], and We made [from] the lump, bones, and We covered the bones with flesh; then We developed him into another creation. So blessed is Allah, the best of creators.
Then indeed, after that you are to die.
(Quran 23:12 to 23:15)
That right there is one of the signs of His existence and the validity of Quran. No man on earth could have described it in such detail and order without access to a microscope and video recording.
This dude is probably an ahmadi or something. He gives off those vibes. And if he is, then expecting him to be logical is like expecting Trump to actually build the wall and have mexico pay for it.
What if there is God after all and what the Quran tells me is the truth? Will this idiot suffer in my stead? An atheist wants to see the death of religion, based on his belief that he came to based on half baked scientific theories. Unless he has answer for everything which his best saints are far from, they shut keep their traps shut and disbelieve in private. No need to project their opinions on us. I know I'm all over the place trying to touch upon multiple things. It's early morning and I haven't slept in day(s). lol

 

[Prince of Dhump]

Its a pitty that Pakistan schools dont teach us how to think business what to think. We can laugh at other people all we want because of our ignorance but we will remain a low class nation of superstitious and unintelligent people while rest of the world progresses.

intelligence and progress does not necessarily requires you to be an atheist..
Newton was a firm believer to a point that many would say he wasted a lot of his time on religious literature

and sorry for laughing..im really a part of this discussion to understand and be educated

 

[Iconoclast]

if ur incomprehension of basic english makes me a lier then so be it ? but ill advise u to take up some english course

where did i say that i can name society..im seriously now thinking about ur english comprehension skills..ur mixing things up
u talked about Piraha who takes care of their elder thats why we human take care elders..u mean to tell us that taking care is there in evolutionary process..to which i replied that devouring others is also there in evolutionary process..should we start devouring each other

Evolution is basically the survival of fittest in it's barebones form. What's life's kryptonite? Death itself. Evolution was able to come up such a complex object as an eye or brain but it couldn't find a solution for eternal life or at least longevity.
With his monkey point of views, I'm starting to believe he actually came from a zoo.
Funnily enough I'd told him the same thing a few months back, he's lacking in comprehension or it's his glacially slow cognitive faculties when he refused to admit US lost the vietnam war and started to linger on the number of deaths on either side. He protested. Not that I gave a damn. I still think the same about him.

 

[Iconoclast]

intelligence and progress does not necessarily requires you to be an atheist..
Newton was a firm believer to a point that many would say he wasted a lot of his time on religious literature

and sorry for laughing..im really a part of this discussion to understand and be educated

70% of his work was about the metaphysycal world and alchemy which was only made public after his death. So yeah.
Modern day genius tesla has some pretty interesting views on the subject as well.

 

[Prince of Dhump]

I don't read dawkins. Tools bore me and perhaps it's down to my introversion and my lack of interest in human beans and the sciences about them.
And certainly did We create man from an extract of clay.
Then We placed him as a sperm-drop in a firm lodging.
Then We made the sperm-drop into a clinging clot, and We made the clot into a lump [of flesh], and We made [from] the lump, bones, and We covered the bones with flesh; then We developed him into another creation. So blessed is Allah, the best of creators.
Then indeed, after that you are to die.
(Quran 23:12 to 23:15)
That right there is one of the signs of His existence and the validity of Quran. No man on earth could have described it in such detail and order without access to a microscope and video recording.
This dude is probably an ahmadi or something. He gives off those vibes. And if he is, then expecting him to be logical is like expecting Trump to actually build the wall and have mexico pay for it.
What if there is God after all and what the Quran tells me is the truth? Will this idiot suffer in my stead? An atheist wants to see the death of religion, based on his belief that he came to based on half baked scientific theories. Unless he has answer for everything which his best saints are far from, they shut keep their traps shut and disbelieve in private. No need to project their opinions on us. I know I'm all over the place trying to touch upon multiple things. It's early morning and I haven't slept in day(s). lol

and that is the problem..
atheists do not have even 20 percent of the explanation but they feel too superior and arrogant and will hammer ridicule mock religion laugh about the gods and its followers..

as long as creation and death stays as problems..no one can deny the existence of a Creator