A clarification related to Zakat? Anyone

[Wake up Pak]

As per my understanding, Zakat is not obligatory. I may be wrong but i will clarify it later.

 

[kakamuna420]

this is correct All assets minus all liabilities

with ownership of one year or more

 

[kakamuna420]

As per my understanding, Zakat is not obligatory. I may be wrong but i will clarify it later.

Ohh.... Namaz, Zakat .....

 

[Wake up Pak]

First of all, there is no such thing as 2-1/2 % zakat in the Quran.
As per the Sunni sect 2-1/2%
As per the Shia sect 5%
WHO IS RIGHT?

 

[GreenMaple]

The basic thumb rule is:

1- Zakat is on savings = wealth tax

2- Ushr, Khums etc are on earnings = income tax

Now things which are subject to saving:

1- Bank Balance
2- Jewellery/gold
3- Plots which are purchased for investment purposes but not for making your own home.
4- Any other valuables, which is a saving and not something of personal use. e.g. having one car for commuting is personal use, but having a second car is a saving. So the car No.2 is subject to zakat. Not Car No.1.

BUT MAKE IT CLEAR THAT THERE IS SOME AMOUNT OF SAVING WHICH IS NOT SUBJECT TO ZAKAT. THIS IS CALLED NISAAB.

Savings which are above the basic Nisaab are subject to zakat of 2.5% of its value, annually.

House rent, shop rent, profit from investment etc are not subject to zakat, but to ushr and/or khums etc as they are earning/income.

This is my understanding as well. Can you kindly provide source of this information. Few months ago, a question came up on zakat rules for personal pension investment funds when such funds are the only source of income for an individual for household expenses, and when there is a concern of outliving the money.

 

[GreenMaple]

First of all, there is no such thing as 2-1/2 % zakat in the Quran.
As per the Sunni sect 2-1/2%
As per the Shia sect 5%
WHO IS RIGHT?

That is a good question. The Quran only mandates paying zakat without mentioning the percentages. I think the percentages are dictated by the authentic hadiths. Only a competent scholar can correctly answer your question.

 

[Wake up Pak]

That is a good question. The Quran only mandates paying zakat without mentioning the percentages. I think the percentages are dictated by the authentic hadiths. Only a competent scholar can correctly answer your question.

Zakat is not obligatory but a voluntary charity.
All the so-called competent ulema will only give you an answer from a hadeeth but, the Quran has all the answers as it is complete and detailed.

 

[Wake up Pak]

Ohh.... Namaz, Zakat .....

Namaz is another subject.
Let me ask you all how many of you know what to read in the namaz and how many of you pray 5 times a day?
How many of you give the zakat of 2.5% on your belongings and cash?
90% of Muslims do not do any of the above but they will defend it blindly.

 

[kakamuna420]

Namaz is another subject.
Let me ask you all how many of you know what to read in the namaz and how many of you pray 5 times a day?
How many of you give the zakat of 2.5% on your belongings and cash?
90% of Muslims do not do any of the above but they will defend it blindly.

we all have to pay for our own deeds. We will benefit from our own deeds. It doesn't matter what others do.

 

[Sohail Shuja]

First of all, there is no such thing as 2-1/2 % zakat in the Quran.
As per the Sunni sect 2-1/2%
As per the Shia sect 5%
WHO IS RIGHT?

Zakat in Fiqh Jaffariya is also 1/40th or 2.5%. However, there are different types of Zakat and different nisaab for different goods/items.

The Khums is a term derived out of the arabic word Khamsa, meaning five (05). But that is mostly construed as the one fifth 1/5th of the asset, meaning 20%. It is applicable to the war booty or the resources found out of fate/luck, e.g. a treasure etc.

Secondly, you are right that Quran does not specify any fixed percentage of Zakat and also does not specify the nisaab and other conditions. It only proscribes payment of Zakat. The derivations are from Hadith books and authentic Ahadith for only the percentage, which is 2.5% on capital assets. For other things, scholars of different sects have divergent conclusions.

 

[GreenMaple]

Zakat is not obligatory but a voluntary charity.
All the so-called competent ulema will only give you an answer from a hadeeth but, the Quran has all the answers as it is complete and detailed.

I am not sure about the voluntary nature of the zakat. The zakat is one of the five mandatory pillars of Islam. This is what the Quran says:
"And perform As-Salat, and give Zakat, and whatever of good you send forth for yourselves before you, you shall find it with Allah. Certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what you do." [The Quran 2:110].

 

[Wake up Pak]

we all have to pay for our own deeds. We will benefit from our own deeds. It doesn't matter what others do.

Definitely but, if we do not follow the Quran, then where are we headed?

 

[Wake up Pak]

I am not sure about the voluntary nature of the zakat. The zakat is one of the five mandatory pillars of Islam. This is what the Quran says:
"And perform As-Salat, and give Zakat, and whatever of good you send forth for yourselves before you, you shall find it with Allah. Certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what you do." [The Quran 2:110].

Brother, it is voluntary nowhere Allah has mandated it.
The ayat you quoted is simply telling us that the more you spend in the way of Allah is better for you and you will have a reward in the hereafter.

 

[Wake up Pak]

Zakat in Fiqh Jaffariya is also 1/40th or 2.5%. However, there are different types of Zakat and different nisaab for different goods/items.

The Khums is a term derived out of the arabic word Khamsa, meaning five (05). But that is mostly construed as the one fifth 1/5th of the asset, meaning 20%. It is applicable to the war booty or the resources found out of fate/luck, e.g. a treasure etc.

Secondly, you are right that Quran does not specify any fixed percentage of Zakat and also does not specify the nisaab and other conditions. It only proscribes payment of Zakat. The derivations are from Hadith books and authentic Ahadith for only the percentage, which is 2.5% on capital assets. For other things, scholars of different sects have divergent conclusions.

Born into a Sunni family I used to follow all these hadeeth etc.
After reading the Quran couple of times, I came to the conclusion that sects are not allowed in Islam. I am just a student of the Quran and still learning.
Also, the Quran has mentioned many times that it is complete and detailed so if we go buy Quranic ayat then we shouldn't look for outside sources to understand the Quran.
I have debated a few issues with other forum members but unfortunately, they all resort to hadeeth books even though they themselves have not read the hadeeth or the Quran but defending it blindly, as that is how we were taught and brought up.

 

[Sohail Shuja]

This is my understanding as well. Can you kindly provide source of this information. Few months ago, a question came up on zakat rules for personal pension investment funds when such funds are the only source of income for an individual for household expenses, and when there is a concern of outliving the money.

Sorry, this is the crux of my knowledge after going through much of the Islamic literature. So, I cannot give a single source of reference for this information. But I do take responsibility for the authenticity of the information provided.

For your question about Zakat on Pension funds, there are two conditions which set up the zakat criteria. We take investment funds as "Equity shares" in a business. Now if the intention of the investor is to purchase shares and then to sell them on a profit, then Zakat is applicable on the total value of the shares. However, if the shares have been purchased for the intention of only taking dividend (profits), then zakat is only applicable on the profits/dividends.

But here, a condition applies that Islam prohibits interest/riba. So, if the pension funds are drawing profits on the basis of Riba, the investment is already haraam.

If it is invested in a business on profit and loss sharing basis, then the condition applies as I pointed out earlier.

 

[Sohail Shuja]

Born into a Sunni family I used to follow all these hadeeth etc.
After reading the Quran couple of times, I came to the conclusion that sects are not allowed in Islam. I am just a student of the Quran and still learning.
Also, the Quran has mentioned many times that it is complete and detailed so if we go buy Quranic ayat then we shouldn't look for outside sources to understand the Quran.
I have debated a few issues with other forum members but unfortunately, they all resort to hadeeth books even though they themselves have not read the hadeeth or the Quran but defending it blindly, as that is how we were taught and brought up.

Well I understand you.

The Quran also says to follow the Prophet (SAW). Moreover, if only the book would've sufficed, there wouldn't be any need of sending a Prophet.

Yes, there is difference among the scholars about different aspects of Zakat, but the basic rate is unanimously agreed as 2.5%.

Furthermore, to make things clear, Allah (SWT), Has made it clear that He will reward us on our intentions and not the actions. So, if, by all honest means, you think something is not right in any fiqah, you can leave it. Since following a fiqah is not part of Islam, whatsoever. It is only your personal choice and is something totally not binding.

I hope you understand.

 

[Wake up Pak]

Well I understand you.

The Quran also says to follow the Prophet (SAW). Moreover, if only the book would've sufficed, there wouldn't be any need of sending a Prophet.

Yes, there is difference among the scholars about different aspects of Zakat, but the basic rate is unanimously agreed as 2.5%.

Furthermore, to make things clear, Allah (SWT), Has made it clear that He will reward us on our intentions and not the actions. So, if, by all honest means, you think something is not right in any fiqah, you can leave it. Since following a fiqah is not part of Islam, whatsoever. It is only your personal choice and is something totally not binding.

I hope you understand.

Certainly, there is no compulsion in Islam but, if we would have read the Quran we won't be following anyone or any other source but the Quran.

Here is how to follow the prophet:
This is the text I received from a friend of mine.

When we tell people that 'we believe the Quran alone is all we need'

They will respond by claiming we have denied the sunna of the messenger because God says "obey God and the messenger" in the Quran

And they claim that 'obey God' refers to the Quran, and 'obey the messenger' with the books of Hadith and Sunna

So they believe 'obey God and the messenger' is to follow two different sources.

So let's study the phrase 'obey God and the messenger' from a Quranic point of view

The first Observation: The Quran always says 'obey God and the messenger'.

Never does it say 'obey the prophet' or 'obey Muhammad'.

It is always 'obey God and the messenger'
So it is important to understand what the term 'messenger' (Rasool) means.


And why God did not say 'obey the prophet (nabi)'?

Muhammad had two status: The status of NUBUWA (prophethood) And the status of RASOOL (messenger)

The status of NUBUWA - the word NUBUWA means 'high or elevated place'.

This means that God has chosen Muhammad, out of all the humans, to communicate with him certain news, prophecies, etc.

So the status of NUBUWA (prophet) means that a human being is communicating with God.

The status of RASOOL - God tells us the status of RASOOL in the Quran:

(5:67) O messenger, deliver what was sent down to you from your Lord. And if you do not, then you have not delivered His message...

We see that God clearly tells us the duty of the messenger is to deliver the message of God

God also says: (24:54) ...there is nothing upon the messenger except the clear delivery...

This teaches us that the sole duty of the messenger is to deliver the message to the people

So if God did not give Muhammad the 'message', then he would not be called 'messenger' (Rasool).

So God calls him 'Rasool because Muhammad is carrying the 'message'.

What is this message that Muhammad carried? The messenger himself answers this in the Quran:
(6:19) ...this Quran has been inspired me to deliver it to you and whoever it reaches...


All these verses teach us that the duty of a messenger is to deliver the message.

Muhammad - the messenger - is required to send us the Quran

So when God says "obey the messenger" we are essentially obeying the 'message' itself

Another observation: God says in the Quran (4:80) "Whoever obeys the messenger, has obeyed God..."

This means when we obey the messenger - the message - the Quran, we have in reality obeyed God

All these verses teach us that 'obey God and the messenger' is essentially obeying ONE source - the Quran

Let's assume that the Quran tells us "obey God" without mentioning obeying the messenger. How would we do that?

This would mean that God Himself would have to come to earth and give us the Quran directly

This of course is illogical

This is why we are to 'obey God and the messenger' - because God gave Muhammad 'the message' which makes him 'a messenger'

And the messenger is required to deliver it to humanity.

So this is what 'obey God and the messenger' means from the Quran.

"Obey God and the messenger" is essentially ONE source - the Quran.

We obey the messenger because he has the 'the message'.

 

[Wake up Pak]

2009- The Pakistani minister of Zakat & 'Ushr, Nur-ul-Haq Qadri, has ruled in the national parliament that Zakat cannot be given to a non-Muslim even under the direst circumstances, even when a non-Muslim is dying of poverty.

Obviously, the minister is a bearded goat. He failed to mention which verse of the Qur'an ordains this atrocity. What discrimination! How frank is the violation of the Book of Allah!

 

[GreenMaple]

Sorry, this is the crux of my knowledge after going through much of the Islamic literature. So, I cannot give a single source of reference for this information. But I do take responsibility for the authenticity of the information provided.

For your question about Zakat on Pension funds, there are two conditions which set up the zakat criteria. We take investment funds as "Equity shares" in a business. Now if the intention of the investor is to purchase shares and then to sell them on a profit, then Zakat is applicable on the total value of the shares. However, if the shares have been purchased for the intention of only taking dividend (profits), then zakat is only applicable on the profits/dividends.

But here, a condition applies that Islam prohibits interest/riba. So, if the pension funds are drawing profits on the basis of Riba, the investment is already haraam.

If it is invested in a business on profit and loss sharing basis, then the condition applies as I pointed out earlier.

Thanks for this great information as related to the pension funds, and it makes perfect sense. So let's assume that if someone has a pension fund portfolio of one million invested strictly in the equity markets (profit/loss basis) and let's say that the annual income received is 50k (total of dividends and capital gains, i.e. increase in shares value), then the zakat is due on 50k and not on the total value of the portfolio (1M). Is this correct understanding?

 

[Sohail Shuja]

Certainly, there is no compulsion in Islam but, if we would have read the Quran we won't be following anyone or any other source but the Quran.

Here is how to follow the prophet:
This is the text I received from a friend of mine.

When we tell people that 'we believe the Quran alone is all we need'

They will respond by claiming we have denied the sunna of the messenger because God says "obey God and the messenger" in the Quran

And they claim that 'obey God' refers to the Quran, and 'obey the messenger' with the books of Hadith and Sunna

So they believe 'obey God and the messenger' is to follow two different sources.

So let's study the phrase 'obey God and the messenger' from a Quranic point of view

The first Observation: The Quran always says 'obey God and the messenger'.

Never does it say 'obey the prophet' or 'obey Muhammad'.

It is always 'obey God and the messenger'
So it is important to understand what the term 'messenger' (Rasool) means.


And why God did not say 'obey the prophet (nabi)'?

Muhammad had two status: The status of NUBUWA (prophethood) And the status of RASOOL (messenger)

The status of NUBUWA - the word NUBUWA means 'high or elevated place'.

This means that God has chosen Muhammad, out of all the humans, to communicate with him certain news, prophecies, etc.

So the status of NUBUWA (prophet) means that a human being is communicating with God.

The status of RASOOL - God tells us the status of RASOOL in the Quran:

(5:67) O messenger, deliver what was sent down to you from your Lord. And if you do not, then you have not delivered His message...

We see that God clearly tells us the duty of the messenger is to deliver the message of God

God also says: (24:54) ...there is nothing upon the messenger except the clear delivery...

This teaches us that the sole duty of the messenger is to deliver the message to the people

So if God did not give Muhammad the 'message', then he would not be called 'messenger' (Rasool).

So God calls him 'Rasool because Muhammad is carrying the 'message'.

What is this message that Muhammad carried? The messenger himself answers this in the Quran:
(6:19) ...this Quran has been inspired me to deliver it to you and whoever it reaches...


All these verses teach us that the duty of a messenger is to deliver the message.

Muhammad - the messenger - is required to send us the Quran

So when God says "obey the messenger" we are essentially obeying the 'message' itself

Another observation: God says in the Quran (4:80) "Whoever obeys the messenger, has obeyed God..."

This means when we obey the messenger - the message - the Quran, we have in reality obeyed God

All these verses teach us that 'obey God and the messenger' is essentially obeying ONE source - the Quran

Let's assume that the Quran tells us "obey God" without mentioning obeying the messenger. How would we do that?

This would mean that God Himself would have to come to earth and give us the Quran directly

This of course is illogical

This is why we are to 'obey God and the messenger' - because God gave Muhammad 'the message' which makes him 'a messenger'

And the messenger is required to deliver it to humanity.

So this is what 'obey God and the messenger' means from the Quran.

"Obey God and the messenger" is essentially ONE source - the Quran.

We obey the messenger because he has the 'the message'.

It is incontestable that the Prophet (SAW) was ordained with the duty to deliver the message from Allah (SWT).

But what confuses me here is that, whether this translates into a factum that only the words of Quran as narrated by Muhammad (SAW) are to be followed, and not his Aswa e Hasana?

There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of Allah an excellent pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and [who] remembers Allah often (33:21).

Furthermore,Quran, in itself also says:

And if all the trees in the earth were pens, and the sea, with seven more seas to help it, (were ink), the words of Allah could not be exhausted. Lo! Allah is Mighty, Wise. (31:27).

So, Quran is complete in its message, yet there is a lot more which could have been revealed. But this qould have put more pressure on the people of faith to go through all those details.

Hence, it perfectly makes sense that in the life and Hasana of Muhammad (SAW) was also an example for the believers.

But I do get your point here.

Books of Hadith have caused much of disambiguation among the muslims and therefore had been the point of controversies. For that, I (for myself) follow one hadith of Rasool Allah (SWT) which goes : Compare my Hadith from Quran and if it contradicts Quran, reject it as it is not my Hadith.

It means that Muhammad (SAW) was aware of the fact that sometime later on, people will come up with different accounts of his Hadith and therefore he has set Quran as a standard to compare the authenticity of his Hadith.

Therefore, I agree in totality with you that Quran is the Standard to follow and to resolve any differences which arise.

Secondly, I also believe that there is a wisdom behind the aswa e hasana of Prophet (SAW) of how he carried himself and how he clarified many things.

Yet, we cannot blindly follow hadith books (I agree on this one as well).

Lets say, as in Quran it is mentioned about the people of Loot (AS) that angels from heavens came to him in the guise of persons.

Isn't that enough to believe that if Allah (SWT) Would desired, he could send the Quran by means of such angels and not the Prophets?