Western Democracy and Islamic Democracy
rolnrol
MPA (400+ posts)
you forgot one thing only the best of people choose khlifa who simply apply the rules of shria.
atensari
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Faiza
Moderator
What you think about prophet Sulaiman (AS) and prophet Dawud (AS), they both were prophet and king
Its better if you find out the difference between western democracy and Islamic democracy before we go into further argument
In short the very basic concept according to Abraham Lincoln about western democracy is Democracy is the government of the people, by the people, for the people
On other hand in Islam all the laws, rules, and regulation are already made but Allah Tala, we need to implement them to make an Islamic state
nauman
Senator (1k+ posts)
Govt administaration is not static and islam did not enforce on muslim the methology and administration system that why all first four kaliphs are chosen in different way and instead that time only shaba were involved in political system and we belive they were best people of their time resulted in more than 100000 deaths with the hand of muslims and 4 out 10 ushara mubashara killed due to the shortcoming of this system even today the shia sunny is result of that system
Faiza, I think this topic had already been discussed.
Democracy is a form of government, it is not unislamic at all. Unfortunately, the democracy
in a country like canada or any other western country is quite different from that of a
so-called Islamic country like Pakistan. The burning example is today's elections in AJK.
If you compare them with the recently elections held in Canada, the difference will
be visible.
I think we have problem understanding the terminology.
Secularism in itself is all about this world when compared to hereafter. In this sense islam is best way to live in this world because it tells us to build a world where people are as if living in a heavenly kingdom. So islam is best form of secularism.
democracy in essence is choice of people ie what is best for them. Again we have a situation where Allah has guided us as to how to make our choices therefore islam is best form of democracy.
Islam helps us be best individuals, be best families, be best tribes, be best nations, be best human being throughout the world.
So problem is not with terms but with their uses by various parties for their own purposes. The actual difference is having this world based upon moral laws or laws of jungle.
Moral laws are divine values and rules ie same rule for all. Not laws biased toward the rich and powerful because they make laws themselves for themselves to impose their will on others who are weaker then themselves.
This is why rich and powerful people are dishing out propaganda against islam all the time. Not only that but they try to tell us islam is just a religion ie go and sit in an isolated corner and talk to your Allah. leave us to make decision about the world as to how we should run it.
They turned islam in to laws of fiqh that were used by kings to control people. The only difference is now they have found ways of controlling people through politics and economics. So they kill them by slow process by controlling peoples' livelihood.
This is where kufar and shirk comes in because anyone who takes over land and resources without the consent of its creator is declaring war on humanity ignoring Allah the creator and sustainer of all. Allah says use land and resources I have provided for the good of all my people and living creatures and the king say no I will use them the way I like. You just leave the worldly decision making to me.
If we read the quran, Allah declares war on such people not on usury as some misunderstand or misinterpret the quran deliberately to legitimize rule of kings and ruling elite.
Islam is moral rule of law and only gives authority to people who believe in goodwill for humanity. Any abusers of other human beings are condemned by Allah as shayateen.
In no way islam endorses mulla rule by way of their self made shariah. Islamic rule does not mean implementation of fiqh laws. They are as silly as the mullas themselves.
One can see their law about rape for example. No way it could be called shariah law. This law tells us more about mentality of people who came up with it and how shameful that they attribute such things to Allah? Unless muslims themselves wake up and get to know proper islam properly they will continuously be fooled and abused and may be they deserve it because of staying ignorant.
Allah only helps those who help themselves. Dead people are useless therefore muslims must become a people who are alive and kicking. One cannot disconnect from the world and hope everything in the world will be ok. If one is thinking like that may be one deserves to be in a mental hospital.
Secularism in itself is all about this world when compared to hereafter. In this sense islam is best way to live in this world because it tells us to build a world where people are as if living in a heavenly kingdom. So islam is best form of secularism.
democracy in essence is choice of people ie what is best for them. Again we have a situation where Allah has guided us as to how to make our choices therefore islam is best form of democracy.
Islam helps us be best individuals, be best families, be best tribes, be best nations, be best human being throughout the world.
So problem is not with terms but with their uses by various parties for their own purposes. The actual difference is having this world based upon moral laws or laws of jungle.
Moral laws are divine values and rules ie same rule for all. Not laws biased toward the rich and powerful because they make laws themselves for themselves to impose their will on others who are weaker then themselves.
This is why rich and powerful people are dishing out propaganda against islam all the time. Not only that but they try to tell us islam is just a religion ie go and sit in an isolated corner and talk to your Allah. leave us to make decision about the world as to how we should run it.
They turned islam in to laws of fiqh that were used by kings to control people. The only difference is now they have found ways of controlling people through politics and economics. So they kill them by slow process by controlling peoples' livelihood.
This is where kufar and shirk comes in because anyone who takes over land and resources without the consent of its creator is declaring war on humanity ignoring Allah the creator and sustainer of all. Allah says use land and resources I have provided for the good of all my people and living creatures and the king say no I will use them the way I like. You just leave the worldly decision making to me.
If we read the quran, Allah declares war on such people not on usury as some misunderstand or misinterpret the quran deliberately to legitimize rule of kings and ruling elite.
Islam is moral rule of law and only gives authority to people who believe in goodwill for humanity. Any abusers of other human beings are condemned by Allah as shayateen.
In no way islam endorses mulla rule by way of their self made shariah. Islamic rule does not mean implementation of fiqh laws. They are as silly as the mullas themselves.
One can see their law about rape for example. No way it could be called shariah law. This law tells us more about mentality of people who came up with it and how shameful that they attribute such things to Allah? Unless muslims themselves wake up and get to know proper islam properly they will continuously be fooled and abused and may be they deserve it because of staying ignorant.
Allah only helps those who help themselves. Dead people are useless therefore muslims must become a people who are alive and kicking. One cannot disconnect from the world and hope everything in the world will be ok. If one is thinking like that may be one deserves to be in a mental hospital.
Useless arguement. You failed to understand basics of Islam. We are not talking about Prophet Dawud (AS) and Prophet Sulaiman (AS) here. We are talking about Islam. The Islam which Mohammad (SAW) brought. All other ways of life (Sulain AS and Dawud AS) were only applicable to that times. Islam is for ever. So please do not intermigle these two. There are no kings or queens in Islam. in Islam Supreme is GOD (ALLah).
I have no problem with Khilafah. But how to choose Khilafah?.. that is the question.
Faiza
Moderator
True, thats why my topic was Western Democracy and Islamic Democracy, they are two different things, in western democracy its all about by the people, for the people, for example a large number of people can agree that gay/ lesbian laws or same sex marriages law can be implemented in the name of democracy, but on other hand in Islamic state we also can choose some one, what ever we like to call khilafa, or leader even by voting but the difference is that people can not make laws on their own because of the majority, but the law of Allah tala will be practiced and in case if there is no clear order about some issue than with the fear of Allah tala any appropriate law can be implanted
But history of Islam tells us that Khilafat was always been a dictatoship (Main examples Khilat Bahu Abbas and Khilafat Babu Hashim ... boths were Kingdomship and dictatorships; only the names were so called 'Khilafat'' ). Just mend it into a modern way of civilized way of living. No objection.
Faiza
Moderator
I agree its useless to discuss any more; there are many things where even Alim have contradiction from each other, so instead of blaming or disrespecting its better to disagree with respect
That is good. It is difficult to change biggoted minds like u.
Faiza
Moderator
It has always been a mystery to me how men can feel themselves honoured by the humiliation of their fellow beings.
Democracy is a form of government in which people in a state select their representatives.
This democracy can be as good in an Islamic Country as is good in some western country.
We have to keep in mind when we say that in a Islamic country, then people are supposed
to be muslims and islam practicing. Not the hypocrite-- like half way... Then automatically
all laws will be by people and for people in the true spirit of Islam. Our dilemma is that
we wish to eat the cake and have it also. Pork harram and wine halal concept type
muslims have no solution, whatever the name, form and style of government it may be!!!!!
This democracy can be as good in an Islamic Country as is good in some western country.
We have to keep in mind when we say that in a Islamic country, then people are supposed
to be muslims and islam practicing. Not the hypocrite-- like half way... Then automatically
all laws will be by people and for people in the true spirit of Islam. Our dilemma is that
we wish to eat the cake and have it also. Pork harram and wine halal concept type
muslims have no solution, whatever the name, form and style of government it may be!!!!!
atensari
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Khalafat was always not a Dictatorship, even when it was dictatorship it was much better then today's Democracy. If Muslims have any contribution to Science and Technology, Architecture, Literature, Weaponry etc. Muslims and Non-Muslims refer to era of that Dictatorship. During this Dictatorship we were rulers not slaves and Democracy made us refuges in our homeland. We were spreading knowledge to rest of the world instead spending millions to buy from other.
Democracy is dictatorship of Mr. Browns which only benefits them, peoples are only numbers (vote). We are soled out to West. West taking care of them and they are taking care of western interests.
