True Democracy is Islamic Democracy (Khilafat)

[mrbaig]

First of all capitalism is a financial system not a political one. Islam has never spoken against capitalism and for proof you can read the Islamic history. Business was the profession of the prophets and many pious people in both pre-Islamic and post Islamic societies. The only thing Islam insists on is a fair circulation of wealth within an economy NOT the creation of wealth.

As far as the political system is concerned, Islam has absolutely NO restrictions. The study of post 632 A.D shows that the methods of governance changed as Islam spread outside the boundaries of Arab tribes. I will give you one such example. When Mecca was conquered, all idols were destroyed to announce the dawn of a new era. People who witnessed it may have thought that it is a part of Islamic governance to eradicate all signs and places of worship once Islam is established in a society.

When Egypt was conquered in 639-640 A.D, Amr Ibn e Aas wrote back to Umar(RATU) and told him about a big statue close to the pyramids and told him that this statue is worshiped by the locals and even a yearly festival is dedicated to it and asked for permission to demolish it. The Caliph stopped him from doing so and you can still see the great sphinx of Giza standing there. The purpose of this example is to establish that Islam has changed its idea of governance based on the locality and time.

In modern day, any Islamic government can be established using the established forms of government as long as the basic principles of good governance are adhered to. You will have to admit that the social norms have changed over the last 1400 years and establishing the social norms of that era in today's society will be impossible.

So all you guys who are sincere about implementation of an Islamic system should stop lamenting democracy and use the current system as the basis of your ideology. These are the basis of an Islamic Government:

1) The welfare of the people
2) Equal justice for all
3) Establishment of a progressive and peaceful society

The moment you bring the social laws of Islam in your idea of government, you will expose yourself to harsh arguments that are almost impossible to counter.

Well said.I agree it.

 

[mrbaig]

You should take a look at the socialist democracy that is practiced in the Scandinavian countries. It is the closest system to the Islamic welfare state that is envisaged in Islamic teachings. They derive a lot of the social systems from the time of the Second Caliph Umar r.a.
This is the system which should be studied to learn how to adapt the Islamic social, economic and moral system into the modern world.

It is valid and good exaple.

 

[alibhai]

If anybody oppose me then i will not react like this, but he use this words "Another problem with khilafat is there is only one way for people to force khalifa out of office. Shahadat hai matloob o maqsood e momin." so he is talking about killing of Khilifah its too bad.

Instead you should read his statement again.

You are a moron. I am talking about the current caliph. And its not like what I pointed out had never happened in the past.

 

[alibhai]

Ali bhi you dont deserve to attach Ali with your name, shame a big shame, Ali razi Allah o Taala anhu was one of Khulfaye rashdeen. You looks enemy of Islam.

Zaradari was choosen by parliamant and parliment was choosen by public, it mean public shoose zardari. and still you oppose a good islamic goverment and want more leaders as zardari, i want to give you a hot rod for this appreciation. you should try to learn more about Quran before you talk next time. stay away from here.

I am proud of any and all association I can form with maula Ali. I believe hazrat Ali should have been the first Caliph but we all know what happened.

You haven't yet shown me how process of zardari's election is any different than what you are going to come up with. On your offer of a hot rod. I love hot rods. make mine similar to this one:

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/hot-rod-9.jpg

Why should I stay away? So the unqualified statements of dimwits like you can go on unchallenged. I know more about the quran, Islam, and the science, commerce, and arts of this world than you and your entire clan. That much, I can guarantee.

 

[alibhai]

democracy is Nizam-e-kufar Hazrat Muhamad S.A.W ney kia election karwaye they ?

ya phir yeh keh do key woh zamana aur tha yeh aur hey dunya bhar key non Muslim eik nizam

democracy laney key liyeh to eik ho gaye hain hum Muslman Muhamad S.A.W ka nizam laney key

liyeh eik neh ho pa rahey har koi hit kar raha hey Islami Nizam par ab to adliya bhi azad hey 2

sall honey ko hey bolo na chief justice uncle surgam ko insaf dey kar dikhaye adaltain azaad hoon

gi to saab ko insaf miley ga ***** hey aisey insaf par key banda mar jata hey but case chalta rehta

hey uncle surgam (chief justice) Molana Sufi Muhamad was right supereme court eik Non islamic

orginization hey and lawyers lawyers key barey main to shetan kehta hey paida hova waqeel to

shaitan ney kaha lo ajj hum bhi sahibe aulad ho gaye

Mohammed(S.A.W) was a prophet, not a caliph. He did not need elections or votes of fellow men.

It is depressing how little you guys know about anything. One has to wonder, if you guys are so stupid, how retarded are the guys blowing themselves up to establish islamic rule in Pakistan?

 

[aftabshah]

I will apprecite to ignore Alibhi, no comments with people who even can challange decisions of Khulfa e rashideen.

Tumhara deen tum ko Mubarik, May Allah send us on right path.

At that time of Khalafte rashida there were also , election, opinion, and recommendations to chose khalifa. In current situation we will chose khalifa by weighing people on a certin criteria and its totally different election from todays election system that is enforce in Pakistan by Election commission of Pakistan. To see model please read 1st post of this thread.

 

[alibhai]

You can ignore me on an internet forum. But what I say is also the belief of millions of pakistanis and muslims outside of this country. Good luck with this system based on a misunderstanding of a verse from dr. Iqbal lahori

 

[Janbazz]

haha really ??
i say A BIG NO TO THIS SO CALLED KHILAFAT KA NIZAM .
see once you try to implement it , 3 carore shiita will oppose it , millions of ahle hadis will oppse it , ANO will oppose it , MQM will oppose it , its actually a long list !!!!!! democracy is the only solution here . those who follow that psycho zaid hamid have also become schizophrenic !
this is not a solution !
our atomic weapon is not for invading other countries ! its for defensive purpose !
DEMOCRACY IS THE BEST POLICY !

 

[awan4ever]

I will apprecite to ignore Alibhi, no comments with people who even can challange decisions of Khulfa e rashideen.

Tumhara deen tum ko Mubarik, May Allah send us on right path.

At that time of Khalafte rashida there were also , election, opinion, and recommendations to chose khalifa. In current situation we will chose khalifa by weighing people on a certin criteria and its totally different election from todays election system that is enforce in Pakistan by Election commission of Pakistan. To see model please read 1st post of this thread.

Again trivializing a major issue of nominating people before electing them. Secondly I presented the example of the Scandinavian welfare states. They are doing almost the same things that the welfare state of the Caliphs did 1400 yrs ago. They are also democracies. So dont just take the example of US democracy and disregard the other examples.

 

[awan4ever]

You can ignore me on an internet forum. But what I say is also the belief of millions of pakistanis and muslims outside of this country. Good luck with this system based on a misunderstanding of a verse from dr. Iqbal lahori

Iqbal Lahori?

Last I heard he was from Sialkot!

 

[alibhai]

Iqbal Lahori?

Last I heard he was from Sialkot!

That is how, he is known to many in the rest of the world. That is the name he is taught under in countries like Iran and central asia. And having been born in Lahore when my dad was posted on border in sialkot, I much prefer this name. Better than all the religious exaltations that are poured over by followers of kazzab lal topi.

 

[HarrisS]

Ya Rub wo na samjhe hain na samjhain ge meri baat
Dil un ko koi aur de ya de mujh ko zubaan aur .......

 

[aftabshah]

if somebody cant respect a great islamic philosphor what we can expect from him instead just ignore as i already mentioned by quoting sorah Kafiron.

Tumhara deen tum ko mubarik.

dont listen bad people, if you are in bad people change your company and search before you talk bad from "bad mouth" Iqbal rehmat u Allah eleih was from Sialkot city.

 

[HarrisS]

if somebody cant respect a great islamic philosphor what we can expect from him instead just ignore as i already mentioned by quoting sorah Kafiron.

Tumhara deen tum ko mubarik.

dont listen bad people, if you are in bad people change your company and search before you talk bad from "bad mouth" Iqbal rehmat u Allah eleih was from Sialkot city.

Even though I didn't see anyone disrespecting Iqbal, even if someone had; when did it become a reason to invoke Sura-e-Kafiroon? Is it a new sin that I don't know of? How many lashes would you suggest in your system of khilafat for this Gunah-e-Kabira? Or are we looking at stoning? God knows I have committed that sin a few times.

Allah mujhay maaf farmaye. Amen.

 

[desicad]

Ya Rub wo na samjhe hain na samjhain ge meri baat
Dil un ko koi aur de ya de mujh ko zubaan aur .......

Bahut khoob!! :)
Can you please post a link where I can read such shayari in English. Thanks.

 

[mrbaig]

haha really ??
i say A BIG NO TO THIS SO CALLED KHILAFAT KA NIZAM .
see once you try to implement it , 3 carore shiita will oppose it , millions of ahle hadis will oppse it , ANO will oppose it , MQM will oppose it , its actually a long list !!!!!! democracy is the only solution here . those who follow that psycho zaid hamid have also become schizophrenic !
this is not a solution !
our atomic weapon is not for invading other countries ! its for defensive purpose !
DEMOCRACY IS THE BEST POLICY !

I am with u janbazz.You are 100% correct.Aftabshah is just wasting time in a useless debate of Khilafat.He is from such people who try to make every thing Islamic by hook or by crook.
Zia failed to collect zakat from bank deposits and kneeled down before shia anger.decided to exempt Shia submitting a declaration.Then all depositers of Pakistan became shia for 60/-Rs affidavit.:lol:

 

[alibhai]

Again trivializing a major issue of nominating people before electing them. Secondly I presented the example of the Scandinavian welfare states. They are doing almost the same things that the welfare state of the Caliphs did 1400 yrs ago. They are also democracies. So dont just take the example of US democracy and disregard the other examples.

Social democracy as practised in the scandanavian countries and canada is the reason these countries consistently rate high in all indices of human development and citizen satisfaction. And yes, we can draw inspiration from ideals established during the time of early caliphs. But that was done in a very small and generally homogenous society. We will have to implement those ideals based on the methods and institutions already perfected by the west. Democracy comes in all flavors. The US model is not for everyone. And even in the US the democratic party is constantly moving towards a more socialist model for provision of essential facilities.

 

[mrbaig]

alibhai can not be ignored.There is much weight in his arguments.

 

[awan4ever]

Social democracy as practised in the scandanavian countries and canada is the reason these countries consistently rate high in all indices of human development and citizen satisfaction. And yes, we can draw inspiration from ideals established during the time of early caliphs. But that was done in a very small and generally homogenous society. We will have to implement those ideals based on the methods and institutions already perfected by the west. Democracy comes in all flavors. The US model is not for everyone. And even in the US the democratic party is constantly moving towards a more socialist model for provision of essential facilities.

These guys actually drew inspiration from the Islamic welfare model and have successfully implemented it in the present times as you have pointed out. However we are so fukking ignorant and arrogant that we dont even consider studying their model only because they use the word 'democracy' with it and because they are godless, fornicating, wine drinking ba$tards!
Thats the only explainati0n these modern caliphate chanting loons will give you.

I have reservations about the capitalist model. Too much greed never does anyone any good. The whole system is an illusion of freedom. I dont want to go into the conspiracy theory mode but I dont see any long term socially rewarding good in the current US capitalist model.

 

[aftabshah]

Shia are not against Khilafat, and there should be no question about shia, sunny and ahle hadees. all are muslims

i dont care who want and who dont want this system, i just beleive that Hazrat Muhammad pbuh predict in one Hadees that Khalafat will comeback and will dominate islamic world in reall shape, so what is wrong if we try to be one of Hazoor pbuh volunteer to implement this system.