The stupidity that is atheism

[drkhan22]

While we are discussing Quran and science i think it is time to trigger thoughts of our atheist friends about another finding which they may not have come across before.
There are certain features which distinguish Humans from rest of the creations. One is rational thinking and intellect well known one. But there are others mentioned in Quran. The way these are mentioned suggest something special about these features. Even though it does not clearly says that these are exclusive to humans but the way of mentioning these triggers our thinking and raises ceratin possibilities. These features are Language, Clothing and burial.

Take clothing for example. So far all the evidence we have ( though it is never complete from fossils and most of scientist keep changing their views after finding new fossils) suggests that Clothing is a distinguishing feature of Humans. No other species put on cloths like we do or we did since thousands of years. Surprisingly Quran mentions it in a unique way. ''O children of Adam, We have bestowed upon you clothing to conceal your private parts and as adornment. But the clothing of righteousness - that is best. That is from the signs of Allah that perhaps they will remember'' ( Aaraf verse 26)

Quran using the word Anzalna Libasan .... as if it was divinely inspired to Bani Adam or Humans. So it seems clothing has some thing unique and peculiar to humans. Now it never says that other species never used it but it certainly tells us that Humans were inspired divinely to put on clothing. From reading all the articals so far i have not come across any evidence where it was ever a common feature of other pre human species. Rather have seen research papers recognising that Clothing was not only to protect against weather conditions but it is proven to be used for ornamental purpose and guarding chastity by africans 1000s of years ago. Exactly the reason Quran explains in the verse. It exclusively says clothing of righteousness, to conceal private parts and adornment. Truly amazing. Even though fossils knowledge is not complete, is poor most of the time and scientist tend to make assumptions everytime they find some new fossil, but Quran has provided some information about Clothing which one can not imagine from anyother source. Word AnzalNa has its own meaning and proves the divine origin of this feature of humans.

If there are any other rational explanations, try here. You are welcome. Cheers

 

[Liberal 000]

This world is a creation. GOD is not a creation so doesnot need a Creator. GOD is uncreated, beginingless, formless, spaceless, timeless, Immaterial, of who you have nothing of a sort.

Bro these are just words nothing else.

In Abrahamic religions God has a physical form he lives somewhere else. He has angels who come down to earth after travelling a long distance to communicate with people

God has angels from recording deeds to punishing people. These things are only possible if all these things have physical shape

Go read Hadiths , God is residing up in heavens behind a veil. On judgement day he will come riding on the wings of Angels to meet people.

If God is eternal then what he was doing before he created all these creations. Why God needs to create things?

Just believe you are right

Is it my fault that he created me?
Is it my fault that he created destiny?
Is it my fault that he gave me brain?
Is it my fault that the intelligence he gave me cannot accept the religion He created as per preached by Molvies?
Is it my fault that my brain is more humane more moral than the religion I was told is from God?

 

[lurker]

You simply failed to answer my friend. I asked you to define what is a proof for you ? You have not done that. Regarding historical accounts and dugging the grave and making it nearly 100 % possible of fact being true it self is a proof that you have no one definition here which is scientific. How will you scientifically test that evidence to prove the existence of Akbar ? Aristoltel ? Your great great great grand father ???
You believe in all three and you have no evidence but few accounts in the history isnt it ? Yet you believe. Your believe in so much you have no proof of. Strange :)
Lets first learn what a proof is and what will make something a fact. It is easy to label concept of GOD as if it is concept of unicorn or something. But your logics are a total failure and nothing more than an excuse to shy away from truth which is evident. There is no better evidence than this whole world that ALLAH has created it from nothing. Lastly you go your way and continue to enjoy in your wilderness. Cheers

To me Proof is either 100% measurable, accountable, ability to replicate OR at the very least give me a high probability of an assertion.

You asked me about Grandfathers, Aristotle and Akbar. I gave you a simple method of Akbar. Granted perhaps there are better ways than mine. But I still gave you a way that you can even shed doubt on and you can say that this is why my way is not better; and I will try to improve it. This is the difference between when I am given a task and when you are given a task. I am more analytical, you are not. It's just the way I am with the world around me. I see things in probabilities.

Coming to my Grandfather, one thing's for certain - I did have a Grand father. Is this statement true?

 

[lurker]

It is amazing my friend that you have absolutely rightly interpretted the way a 1st century Aalim with no knowledge of modern science would have done this. Now imagine where do you stand today ? When science proves it that oceans have layers of waves, you need another mathematical proof ??? Steyn rightly said and i also mentioned that you dnt need a PROOF rather you need your own imaginitive kind of proof which no one on earth can provide you when your eyes n heart are closed. As ALLAH says that their hearts are sealed, they have eyes they can not see, ears with that they can not hear. Keep trying your luck with it, you never will make any sense. Your way of rejecting proof will take you no where.

Does the Quran apply to ALL ages? Or do you think there are things in the Quran which are not applicable to this time today and maybe applicable at a later date? ;)

From what you say it would appear this verse nobody could figure it out in its truest essence UNTIL this was proven by science at a much later date as you claim. So 7th century Jamal reading this surah probably thought, "Allah jane Allah kiya keh raha hai. Wave ke upar Wave!? Usko choro disbeliever ki baat ko, Wave ki motion socho." :P Come on man. You are not in context with the Ayah. You've gone off a tangent and have taken liberties.

The people who believe nostradamus do this on a regular basis.

You must have a hard time reconciling with Laws such as "matter cannot be created or destroyed" ? :P

 

[lurker]

While we are discussing Quran and science i think it is time to trigger thoughts of our atheist friends about another finding which they may not have come across before.
There are certain features which distinguish Humans from rest of the creations. One is rational thinking and intellect well known one. But there are others mentioned in Quran. The way these are mentioned suggest something special about these features. Even though it does not clearly says that these are exclusive to humans but the way of mentioning these triggers our thinking and raises ceratin possibilities. These features are Language, Clothing and burial.

Take clothing for example. So far all the evidence we have ( though it is never complete from fossils and most of scientist keep changing their views after finding new fossils) suggests that Clothing is a distinguishing feature of Humans. No other species put on cloths like we do or we did since thousands of years. Surprisingly Quran mentions it in a unique way. ''O children of Adam, We have bestowed upon you clothing to conceal your private parts and as adornment. But the clothing of righteousness - that is best. That is from the signs of Allah that perhaps they will remember'' ( Aaraf verse 26)

Quran using the word Anzalna Libasan .... as if it was divinely inspired to Bani Adam or Humans. So it seems clothing has some thing unique and peculiar to humans. Now it never says that other species never used it but it certainly tells us that Humans were inspired divinely to put on clothing. From reading all the articals so far i have not come across any evidence where it was ever a common feature of other pre human species. Rather have seen research papers recognising that Clothing was not only to protect against weather conditions but it is proven to be used for ornamental purpose and guarding chastity by africans 1000s of years ago. Exactly the reason Quran explains in the verse. It exclusively says clothing of righteousness, to conceal private parts and adornment. Truly amazing. Even though fossils knowledge is not complete, is poor most of the time and scientist tend to make assumptions everytime they find some new fossil, but Quran has provided some information about Clothing which one can not imagine from anyother source. Word AnzalNa has its own meaning and proves the divine origin of this feature of humans.

If there are any other rational explanations, try here. You are welcome. Cheers

You my friend are amazed too easily. Humans? We are Homo sapiens. That is our species. Prior to that there were neanderthals. They too had clothes. Prior to that Homo heidelbergensis also had clothes.

I am curious as to why you think this statement is extraordinary and amazing in 7th century AD?

 

[lurker]

GOD is uncreated, beginingless, formless, spaceless, timeless, Immaterial, of who you have nothing of a sort..

That's all good, but who told you that? ;)

 

[drkhan22]

You my friend are amazed too easily. Humans? We are Homo sapiens. That is our species. Prior to that there were neanderthals. They too had clothes. Prior to that Homo heidelbergensis also had clothes.

I am curious as to why you think this statement is extraordinary and amazing in 7th century AD?

Bring your evidence if anyone other than homosapiens had cloths.

 

[drkhan22]

That's all good, but who told you that? ;)

Your question shows you are speechlesss and have no argument left to question GOD.

 

[drkhan22]

You must have a hard time reconciling with Laws such as "matter cannot be created or destroyed" ? :p[/QUOTE]

Why is so difficult to understand that the facts mentioned in Quran may only be understood by poor humans once these are proven with evidence. Yes Quranic verses are for all times but one needs a knowledge to understand. Moon n sun are in rotating path is understood now as a fact than before. So blame Jamal for not knowing it before than his great great great great grand son Lurker who figured it out what it meant really. It is amazing to see as the time unfolds new discoveries we tend to recognize more of the divine nature of Quran.

So far you have not been able to challenge a clear verse of Quran mentioning expicitly the wavy layers of sea, not even you could show if your fav Nosterdames had predicted this before. Or my be Greeks who the atheist always try to hide behind to evade the truth explained in Quran.

 

[lurker]

Your question shows you are speechlesss and have no argument left to question GOD.

You didn't answer the question. Who told you about these attributes of God that you are so vehemently professing here? Don't get me wrong brother. I don't mean to insinuate you don't know what you are talking about. I have no such intention. I know this is your belief.

 

[lurker]

Bring your evidence if anyone other than homosapiens had cloths.

Clothing is not like bones that last several thousands of years. Science can infer with a high probability with the available evidence. Let's take the example of neanderthals. These people lived in cold frigid environments. Their body did not have enough insulation to cover heat losses. Therefore they wore clothing BECAUSE their life depended upon it. You don't even need to goto the adornment argument, Not dying is a very strong one. lol.

I invite you to put holes in this inference. I would be happy if you did. :)

 

[lurker]

Why is so difficult to understand that the facts mentioned in Quran may only be understood by poor humans once these are proven with evidence. Yes Quranic verses are for all times but one needs a knowledge to understand. Moon n sun are in rotating path is understood now as a fact than before. So blame Jamal for not knowing it before than his great great great great grand son Lurker who figured it out what it meant really. It is amazing to see as the time unfolds new discoveries we tend to recognize more of the divine nature of Quran.

So far you have not been able to challenge a clear verse of Quran mentioning expicitly the wavy layers of sea, not even you could show if your fav Nosterdames had predicted this before. Or my be Greeks who the atheist always try to hide behind to evade the truth explained in Quran.

Basically what you are saying is that some Ayahs in the Quran today are simply not applicable today. They are time sensitive. You could very well ignore them because possibly you don't have enough knowledge? :P So Jamal from 7th century AD need not worry himself about Surah Nur and this particular Ayah about the disbelievers, Because nobody would've had any clue as to what its talking about?

I am not a great Muslim, but even I don't shortchange the Quran like you are doing here. Prophecies are in EVERY religion. But I think you picked the wrong Surah and ayah to make your point. You are looking for patterns and you see what your eyes want to see. Its only human nature. A weakness of our species that can be made a strength if it was directed at something beneficial.

 

[Steyn]

Why is so difficult to understand that the facts mentioned in Quran may only be understood by poor humans once these are proven with evidence. Yes Quranic verses are for all times but one needs a knowledge to understand. Moon n sun are in rotating path is understood now as a fact than before. So blame Jamal for not knowing it before than his great great great great grand son Lurker who figured it out what it meant really. It is amazing to see as the time unfolds new discoveries we tend to recognize more of the divine nature of Quran.

So far you have not been able to challenge a clear verse of Quran mentioning expicitly the wavy layers of sea, not even you could show if your fav Nosterdames had predicted this before. Or my be Greeks who the atheist always try to hide behind to evade the truth explained in Quran.

Don't waste your breath on him brother.

He thinks greeks knew sea had internal waves even when i showed him research sciencedirect research paper that clearly mentions it was not something humans could see with naked eyes and was only known recently.

I showed him the Pharaohs body miracle. He acted dumb and didn't even read what i am saying instead made a dumb point like Pharaohs were mummified. That's not the miracle. The miracle is the mummy was drowned which Holy Quran mentioned then the miracle is his body is preserved which Holy Quran mentioned. Then the miracle is his body was found in water not in a proper tomb and still preserved which is impossible and miraculous. The body is 3000 years old.

That's not all. The miracle is no other mummy has been preserved like this even in proper tombs. Sea water destroys the body and miraculously it was persevered.

Further the miracle is Bible doesn't even talk about it nor did the Greeks or anyone knew. The body was not found until in the late 19th century.

If someone can reject this and thinks it's not proof enough. Don't you remember Moses (A.S) did miracles and the people called him a magician. Then when death approached Pharaoh that's when he said i believe. Believing in God doesn't suit some people's lifestyle, they choose this world over the eternal afterlife


The problem isn't proof. The problem is they don't really care. Deep down in their heart they know there is a God but believing in a God will conflict with their lives


Some people just want to live their lives guilt free. You're only wasting your time arguing with them.

If they were interested in God, all they have to do is pray to God to show them signs and they will find God if they're sincere. So many new Muslims (ex atheists) videos i have watched and there is almost one thing common to them, they prayed and asked God to show them if He really exists. It would make you cry how Allah then guided them to the truth.

Haven't you seen how these people blindly believe in whatever media tells them without questioning it but when you show them proof after proof of God they don't consider it sufficient. They jave a problem in their heart.

 

[drkhan22]

Clothing is not like bones that last several thousands of years. Science can infer with a high probability with the available evidence. Let's take the example of neanderthals. These people lived in cold frigid environments. Their body did not have enough insulation to cover heat losses. Therefore they wore clothing BECAUSE their life depended upon it. You don't even need to goto the adornment argument, Not dying is a very strong one. lol.

I invite you to put holes in this inference. I would be happy if you did. :)

See here is a problem. You are assuming Neanderthals must have wore clothes as they lived in cold weather but you have no evidence to substantiate your claim. All you are doing is using a logic and making an assumption. When it comes down to logic you then have to believe in something which you have no proof of , knowing the fact that an evidence in future may be contrary to what you have just believed in. It is therefore evident that Atheist do not rely on scientific evidence always to believe in something but they actually just need a scientist to say it to believe in it :)

You needs more research into the topic before you deliver a judgement about if anyone else wear cloths other than Humans ( homosapiens of Course). If you do not have an evidnece, according to your principle, you should only believe in what has been proven and that is only Humans wear cloths. Either change your principle or believe in what i am saying my friend. Cheers

 

[drkhan22]

You didn't answer the question. Who told you about these attributes of God that you are so vehemently professing here? Don't get me wrong brother. I don't mean to insinuate you don't know what you are talking about. I have no such intention. I know this is your belief.

I am not getting you wrong my friend. My post was a respnse to you fellow atheist Mr liberal who questioned GOD. May be you missed what was i responding to. Regarding your question where do i get it from, i already mentioned in the post, Lam Yakul Lahoo Kufu Waan Ahad, Nothing equals him, then ALLAH says, Laisa Ka misle shayye.... there is nothing like him. If you can make an effort you will know what i am talking about. It has to be a being with nothing like we know of. Now if you still wish to know what it is like, then my answer is ,'' we will find out inshaALLAH ''.

Now if you want an evidence then you have to first define what your evidence is ?? Back to my first question.

 

[drkhan22]

Basically what you are saying is that some Ayahs in the Quran today are simply not applicable today. They are time sensitive. You could very well ignore them because possibly you don't have enough knowledge? :p So Jamal from 7th century AD need not worry himself about Surah Nur and this particular Ayah about the disbelievers, Because nobody would've had any clue as to what its talking about?

I am not a great Muslim, but even I don't shortchange the Quran like you are doing here. Prophecies are in EVERY religion. But I think you picked the wrong Surah and ayah to make your point. You are looking for patterns and you see what your eyes want to see. Its only human nature. A weakness of our species that can be made a strength if it was directed at something beneficial.

Sorry but that is very ignorant of you. You fail to comprehend a simple fact that Quran is a guidance for all times. It is not a book of science but a book of signs. Cant help you if you have no basic understanding of the Holy Quran. A total wrong way of thinking and your rationality is deep asleep now i must say. Try close your eyes and pray once sincerely that ALLAH guide you to the truth. I hope you will find it. Or we will see that in hereafter then as ALLAH says in Quran.

 

[lurker]

See here is a problem. You are assuming Neanderthals must have wore clothes as they lived in cold weather but you have no evidence to substantiate your claim. All you are doing is using a logic and making an assumption. When it comes down to logic you then have to believe in something which you have no proof of , knowing the fact that an evidence in future may be contrary to what you have just believed in. It is therefore evident that Atheist do not rely on scientific evidence always to believe in something but they actually just need a scientist to say it to believe in it :)

You needs more research into the topic before you deliver a judgement about if anyone else wear cloths other than Humans ( homosapiens of Course). If you do not have an evidnece, according to your principle, you should only believe in what has been proven and that is only Humans wear cloths. Either change your principle or believe in what i am saying my friend. Cheers

I have "No evidence", "No Proof"?? You know that's not true. I have some evidence as I have provided. Now, you can say its not enough for you; that is acceptable line of reasoning. But I would counter that by telling you that you have believed things with far less evidence than I have provided for neanderthal clothing. I asked you, come and poke holes in it. I relish the opportunity because it will enhance my own inferences.

Alright let's say my assumption that Neanderthals must wear clothes to keep warm is false. How did they survive without clothes? Care to take a guess? I welcome a better explanation. Science loves a proper argument to beat its accepted norms. :)

 

[lurker]

Sorry but that is very ignorant of you. You fail to comprehend a simple fact that Quran is a guidance for all times. It is not a book of science but a book of signs. Cant help you if you have no basic understanding of the Holy Quran. A total wrong way of thinking and your rationality is deep asleep now i must say. Try close your eyes and pray once sincerely that ALLAH guide you to the truth. I hope you will find it. Or we will see that in hereafter then as ALLAH says in Quran.

How can it guide Jamal in the 7th century AD when he had no clue about wave upon wave!? I mean I didn't make this up, you all did. You gave me this point yourself. It's YOUR understanding that I am giving you an example of. How can you reconcile that and then tell me the Quran is for all times when clearly these Ayahs are time bound to Human discoveries - per your understanding.

My personal understanding is that the Quran is applicable to all times, therefore this Ayah cannot be talking about a dependence upon a discovery for understanding. It's simple logic. So either you are right and the Quran is time bound. Or I am right and the Quran is applicable to all times. Ironic isn't it? The man you are arguing against has better logic for Quran's infallibility than you have, the one with faith! :P

 

[SUPER SHAHEEN]

It's not surprising. Every atheist i have seen is insincere and dishonest when it comes to the existence of God. It's like they shut off their brain and evade the very real evidence that God exists just so they can live in their fairy tale of a world doing whatever immoral things they want to do and then wish they go to the grave and just be maggots food without any consequences of questioning for their actions.

All i can say is May Allah guide them. The fleeting moments of happiness that a bit of flesh and paper money can give you isn't really that worthy to become an enemy to God.

This is for an religious idiot like you. This should end the debate you Stone Age backward follower.
" isn't it remarkable that almost everyone has the same religion parents? And it always just happens to be the true religion"
People who follow religions are dumb arse and sheep who never use their brains,only follow Stone Age theories or fantasy stories,unluckily if someone criticise,leave them or ask them questions then the twisted theory orders to kill him like Mishal khan. You barbaric and violent no matter how you shield it.
Religions are just bullocks.

 

[SUPER SHAHEEN]

I don't think you understand how burden of proof is used. If I tell you that I know of a Horse that can fly in the sky is blue in color and its as tall as the Burj Khalifah. What will you say to me? You will either outright refute me or if you are curious enough you'd ask for proof. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs. And the burden of evidence is on the shoulders of the person who is making the claim. In the eternal Atheism vs Theism argument this burden lies on the shoulders of the theists. Because its theists who claim of a God(s).

Well said,for me religions are just made up fantasy and backward stories and only dumb would follow them.Full stop.